Why doesn't Action Surge grant another Bonus Action?

[MonkeyIke]

When I read Action Surge I understood that it granted another action for the character. Thus allowing a level 5 fighter to Attack 4 times and use 1 single bonus action if they wanted. But Why exactly doesn't Action surge grant a second bonus action?

[Sirdar]

Action Surge (as written) is one of the absolute best class abilities in the entire game. There is no need to give an extra bonus action as well. The game designers are well aware of this.

[Quoxis]

Action Surge (as written) is one of the absolute best class abilities in the entire game. There is no need to give an extra bonus action as well. The game designers are well aware of this.

Exactly this. No need to make it more overpowered than it already is, and it's enough that about every (multi-)class guide mentions "oh yeah and if you dip fighter make sure to take 2 levels for action surge!" somewhere, in a community that tends to frown upon impure levelling.

[Sharur]

In addition to being one of the best abilities as is, as Sirdar states, there are too many things that can break the action economy, such as the Eldrich Knight's War Magic features, that would allow it to fire of two cantrips, and make two weapon attacks in a single turn, or later a spell, a cantrip, and two attacks, if it got a bonus bonus action.

To see how powerful this is, compare the Haste spell, which is the only other way of getting an additional action on one's turn that I am aware of for a PC: It specifically limits the target to basically, every core action that its target can take, except casting a spell.

So avoid this or other shenanigans, they retain a single bonus action.

The only downside, really, is to the relatively rare TWF fighter who can still only make a single of hand attack, and can't use action surge to get both a .off-hand weapon attack and a second wind in the same turn (Although your DM may or may not let you).

[SpamCreateWater]

Action Surge (as written) is one of the absolute best class abilities in the entire game. There is no need to give an extra bonus action as well. The game designers are well aware of this.

This doesn't quite answer the OP. They asked why it doesn't grant a second bonus action, not why it shouldn't. I usually would not nitpick this, but I recently started a thread where all of one person actually answered my request - the rest were telling me what I was doing was badwrongfun. (Slight exaggeration, but the situation still irked me)

When I read Action Surge I understood that it granted another action for the character. Thus allowing a level 5 fighter to Attack 4 times and use 1 single bonus action if they wanted. But Why exactly doesn't Action surge grant a second bonus action?

Nitpick aside, what Sirdar sort of didn't really say above is correct. It does not grant a second bonus action.

The "Why doesn't it?" question comes about because of the wording: On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and possible bonus action. The part which can confuse readers is the "and possible bonus action" bit - the reason it's worded that way is because bonus actions are only given due to special abilities, spells, or other features (such as class features). You don't naturally have the ability to take a bonus action - you need to meet prerequisites to use it.

A rewording may make it easier to understand: On your turn, in addition to your regular action and possible bonus action, you may take one additional action.

[MonkeyIke]

Thanks for the input everyone. I was just curious of what others thought.

[Sirdar]

This doesn't quite answer the OP. They asked why it doesn't grant a second bonus action, not why it shouldn't. I usually would not nitpick this, but I recently started a thread where all of one person actually answered my request - the rest were telling me what I was doing was badwrongfun. (Slight exaggeration, but the situation still irked me)



Nitpick aside, what Sirdar sort of didn't really say above is correct. It does not grant a second bonus action.

The "Why doesn't it?" question comes about because of the wording: On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and possible bonus action. The part which can confuse readers is the "and possible bonus action" bit - the reason it's worded that way is because bonus actions are only given due to special abilities, spells, or other features (such as class features). You don't naturally have the ability to take a bonus action - you need to meet prerequisites to use it.

A rewording may make it easier to understand: On your turn, in addition to your regular action and possible bonus action, you may take one additional action.

Point taken. I didn't occur to me that the thread could be about the confusion that the wording of Action Surge can cause.

[Kadarai]

I have a weird question here: let's say for a moment that Action surge would give an extra bonus action, other than TWF or second wind, and maybe the ocasional quickened spell, what would make it so much more broken? what are some inventive uses of such an increase in its power?

[Gastronomie]

The reasons are as everyone have already said above, but that having been mentioned, it could be fun to have a sub-class of some other class that can grant an extra Bonus Action per rest. Could open up a lot of fun possibilities.

[DeAnno]

I have a weird question here: let's say for a moment that Action surge would give an extra bonus action, other than TWF or second wind, and maybe the ocasional quickened spell, what would make it so much more broken? what are some inventive uses of such an increase in its power?

Crossbow Expert and Polearm Master mainly. It'd also be very handy for a MC Warlock or Ranger juggling a marking spell.

[JellyPooga]

I have a weird question here: let's say for a moment that Action surge would give an extra bonus action, other than TWF or second wind, and maybe the ocasional quickened spell, what would make it so much more broken? what are some inventive uses of such an increase in its power?

"I'm a Rogue 2/Fighter2. I Action Surge, Disengage from your bodyguard, Dash 60ft to engage your Wizard, Attack him (Sneak Attack!) and Ready an Attack. Your go."

"Uh...I, er...start casti..."

"Stop there. I Sneak Attack you again. You're dead."

[Willie the Duck]

I have a weird question here: let's say for a moment that Action surge would give an extra bonus action, other than TWF or second wind, and maybe the ocasional quickened spell, what would make it so much more broken? what are some inventive uses of such an increase in its power?

Fighter2 Warlock 2 Sorcerer 6 with hex pulling off twelve 1d10+1d6+5 Eldritch Blasts?

[Theodoxus]

Shoot, I'd just be happy to Healing Word, Attack with Spiritual Weapon and cast Sacred Flame or Melee Attack with my cleric...

[Sirithhyando]

At my table we saw it as you take a set of action, so Action Surge would give the bonus action.
Possible we aren't doing it right but i'm sure at one point on the forum we had an understanding about it being that the Action surge does give the bonus action.

[psychopomp23]

At my table we saw it as you take a set of action, so Action Surge would give the bonus action.
Possible we aren't doing it right but i'm sure at one point on the forum we had an understanding about it being that the Action surge does give the bonus action.

The first time I played a fighter in 5th with you guys the DM only granted me one bonus action. And in the game you're talking about (me and Sirith are rl friends) you guys told me I got the other bonus action so since you play more than I do I figured you knew what you were talking about :P

[Cybren]

"I'm a Rogue 2/Fighter2. I Action Surge, Disengage from your bodyguard, Dash 60ft to engage your Wizard, Attack him (Sneak Attack!) and Ready an Attack. Your go."

"Uh...I, er...start casti..."

"Stop there. I Sneak Attack you again. You're dead."

So, you're saying, it doesn't allow an extra bonus action so that the fighter/rogue has to either take some damage from an opportunity attack that might hit them, or be one move speed iteration closer to pull this off?

[JellyPooga]

So, you're saying, it doesn't allow an extra bonus action so that the fighter/rogue has to either take some damage from an opportunity attack that might hit them, or be one move speed iteration closer to pull this off?

No, I'm just saying that this is something a Fighter/Rogue can do if Action Surge allows an additional Bonus Action as well. Choosing between Disengage and Dash as a Bonus Action is a pretty frequent conundrum for a Rogue; allowing both...well, it takes out that decision. That's not to mention the possibilities of Use an Object...

Likewise, a Monk could get 4 additional attacks from FoB with that additional Bonus Action. Or Dodge and FoB. Whether or not any of that is reason anough to disallow an additional Bonus Action with Action Surge is another matter (RAW aside).

[Cybren]

No, I'm just saying that this is something a Fighter/Rogue can do if Action Surge allows an additional Bonus Action as well. Choosing between Disengage and Dash as a Bonus Action is a pretty frequent conundrum for a Rogue; allowing both...well, it takes out that decision. That's not to mention the possibilities of Use an Object...

Likewise, a Monk could get 4 additional attacks from FoB with that additional Bonus Action. Or Dodge and FoB. Whether or not any of that is reason anough to disallow an additional Bonus Action with Action Surge is another matter (RAW aside).

Right, but the rogue can still do that if-> they don't need to dash or disengage. As I said, all this means is the rogues engagement range is increased by 30ft or they decide to eat an opportunity attack. This is not a criticism of double bonus actions.

[Madfellow]

Uh guys, go read the ability again. It DOES grant an additional bonus action. I know, I was surprised too.

[Willie the Duck]

Uh guys, go read the ability again. It DOES grant an additional bonus action. I know, I was surprised too.

Look again. "On Your Turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible Bonus Action."

The bonus action mentioned is part of the clause modified by "on top of."

Think of it this way: "On Your Turn, you can take one additional action on top of your [regular allotment of on-your-turn actions, which are your] regular action and a possible Bonus Action." On a normal turn, you get Action+potentialBonus, on a action surge turn, you get Action+Action+potentialBonus.

[JellyPooga]

This is not a criticism of double bonus actions.

I'm not saying it is. I was responding to the post that asked for suggestions on what you can do with double bonus actions.

[bid]

Uh guys, go read the ability again. It DOES grant an additional bonus action. I know, I was surprised too.

Nope.

SA p4: "Does the fighter’s Action Surge feature let you take an extra bonus action, in addition to an extra action? Action Surge gives you an extra action, not an extra bonus action."

[Waterdeep Merch]

Why does everyone want one of the best abilities in the entire game to also have sprinkles and a cherry on top? I can think of no reason to allow an extra bonus action that wouldn't make the two level dip even more lucrative than it already is. Why compound this problem?

[SpamCreateWater]

Point taken. I didn't occur to me that the thread could be about the confusion that the wording of Action Surge can cause.

I only thought of it because I had the same issue when I first read the ability. I was incredibly confused and had to put the book down, walk away, and read it another time

Uh guys, go read the ability again. It DOES grant an additional bonus action. I know, I was surprised too.

Try parsing the sentence like this: [On your turn, you can take one additional action] [on top of your regular action and possible bonus action].
Or On your turn, you can take one additional action; this is on top of your regular action and possible bonus action.

Edit: On second thoughts, a possible explanation could be that there is no mind given to how bonus actions work. My initial lack of understanding with the ability, I think, was because I failed to grasp how bonus actions worked - the word "possible" threw me. While reading the ability, keep this in mind: It is not your Pelor-given right to have a bonus action each round.
Your bonus action each round is only possible due to circumstances or class abilities; a third way to read the ability could be: On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and bonus action.

Why does everyone want one of the best abilities in the entire game to also have sprinkles and a cherry on top? I can think of no reason to allow an extra bonus action that wouldn't make the two level dip even more lucrative than it already is. Why compound this problem?

I think you're misattributing intent. It's not that people want it to have "sprinkles and a cherry on top". It's that the ability is worded in such a way that can - and obviously does - cause confusion.

[Misterwhisper]

"I'm a Rogue 2/Fighter2. I Action Surge, Disengage from your bodyguard, Dash 60ft to engage your Wizard, Attack him (Sneak Attack!) and Ready an Attack. Your go."

"Uh...I, er...start casti..."

"Stop there. I Sneak Attack you again. You're dead."

His spell would go off first.

To answer the OP, it is because of multiclass balancing.

[JackPhoenix]

His spell would go off first.

Depends on the exact wording of the readied action.

[Matticusrex]

Action Surge would be a great skill if it was not on the worst class. In it's current state its a mediocre toy.

[Sirdar]

Action Surge would be a great skill if it was not on the worst class. In it's current state its a mediocre toy.

Mediocre toy? You certainly are brave saying such a thing in this forum. Prepare to defend yourself.

[Willie the Duck]

Action Surge would be a great skill if it was not on the worst class. In it's current state its a mediocre toy.

No comment on the fighter being worst. However, I'm pretty sure that the design intent of 5e is that you never look at features or abilities in a vacuum. One of the reasons Shillelagh is reasonable is because it is so hard to get along with multi-attack (or SCAG melee cantrip), using the correct attribute, on a character who has the AC to want to enter melee, and somehow doesn't need Str or Dex (making it moot), without so much dipping or feats that it defeats it's own purpose. Same propbably with Action Surge--those who might potentially find the greatest abuse for it also have to most to lose by a 2-level diversion into the fighter class.

[N810]

"On Your Turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible Bonus Action."
let me diagram it for you...


one additional action
--------------------------------------------
regular action & Bonus Action



On Your Turn, you can take one additional action
(this would be the action surge part.)