Questionable Content 11: It's Like Seeing a Unicorn

[Vinyadan]

Winslow's chasis was most likely top of the line when it was introduced. It's a much different situation then May being given garbage by society.

I think that this is mixing up the State and society.

The State punished May and then failed to give her a decent way to reintegrate.

Then May got a home because someone was generous to her, got a job because Dale found it for her, and got repairs because Fay repaired her free of charge, something for which Fay later got into trouble with her boss. Society isn't being that bad to her.

The one time society actually hurt her -- by someone refusing to give her a job as a robot -- she helped perpetuate the situation, in that she did nothing to end it. In this case, the State actually gave her the means to act against an unjust societal behaviour, and she explicitly refused to use them.

I think that part of May's characterization actually is that her behaviour is contradictory in what she expects from others and what she actually gives them, and that she will always be a **** whenever possible, unless forced to act nicely or in a situation strongly and directly benefiting her. But, of course, she explicitly doesn't want people to be ***** towards her.

Some comment about May's personality by other characters would actually have made sense, and turned the moralizing tale a bit more realistic.

EDIT: And why did May end up in jail? Because she tried to buy herself the most overblownly awesome chassis ever, a fighter jet, with someone else's money, which she stole. So, uhm, psychology?

[Max_Killjoy]

I think that this is mixing up the State and society.

The State punished May and then failed to give her a decent way to reintegrate.

Then May got a home because someone was generous to her, got a job because Dale found it for her, and got repairs because Fay repaired her free of charge, something for which Fay later got into trouble with her boss. Society isn't being that bad to her.

The one time society actually hurt her -- by someone refusing to give her a job as a robot -- she helped perpetuate the situation, in that she did nothing to end it. In this case, the State actually gave her the means to act against an unjust societal behaviour, and she explicitly refused to use them.

I think that part of May's characterization actually is that her behaviour is contradictory in what she expects from others and what she actually gives them, and that she will always be a **** whenever possible, unless forced to act nicely or in a situation strongly and directly benefiting her. But, of course, she explicitly doesn't want people to be ***** towards her.

Some comment about May's personality by other characters would actually have made sense, and turned the moralizing tale a bit more realistic.

EDIT: And why did May end up in jail? Because she tried to buy herself the most overblownly awesome chassis ever, a fighter jet, with someone else's money, which she stole. So, uhm, psychology?

Yeah, agreed... but that's all inconvenient for the "morality" tale being seen in the comic by some readers now, however.

[Vinyadan]

On an unrelated note, the RSS feed doesn't work since last week.

[Yuki Akuma]

...Birds don't react to capsaicin, Jeph.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

...Birds don't react to capsaicin, Jeph.

Not regular ones, no. That's why may is breeding these specially.

GW

[EternalMelon]

...Birds don't react to capsaicin, Jeph.

Those Birds are May's "Special Spice Buddies"

[Max_Killjoy]

Bah. She had no reason to be offended, other than her own jealousy.

[georgie_leech]

Bah. She had no reason to be offended, other than her own jealousy.

Envy, to be a pedant. But I find in my life that insisting that any offence is irrational or unreasonable doesn't really do much to actually help things along. If anything, the less rational the anger, the less likely "you're being irrational" is to resolve anything.

[The Extinguisher]

Bah. She had no reason to be offended, other than her own jealousy.

Im glad that all the characters in the comic are acting more reasonable than you are here

[Max_Killjoy]

Im glad that all the characters in the comic are acting more reasonable than you are here

There's nothing rational about being pissed off at someone else just for having what you want to have.

[georgie_leech]

There's nothing rational about being pissed off at someone else for having what you want to have.

And? People getting upset about things that are told "you are being irrational" generally hear "the thing that you care about isn't important." I can count the number of times that point actually defused anger or tension in my life on one hand.

[Max_Killjoy]

And? People getting upset about things that are told "you are being irrational" generally hear "the thing that you care about isn't important." I can count the number of times that point actually defused anger or tension in my life on one hand.

So what?

Winslow made a momentous choice in his life, one of the first people he wanted to share it with was May, and all she could so was indulge her own self-pity over the situation she created for herself.

He has nothing to apologize for.

[georgie_leech]

So what?

Winslow made a momentous choice in his life, one of the first people he wanted to share it with was May, and all she could so was indulge her own self-pity over the situation she created for herself.

To quote your own words: so what? She was offended and irrational; winslow apologised, they're moving on. If anything, that puts this as one of the less dramatic parts of the comic

[The Extinguisher]

So what?

Winslow made a momentous choice in his life, one of the first people he wanted to share it with was May, and all she could so was indulge her own self-pity over the situation she created for herself.

He has nothing to apologize for.

Except she didn't create this situation for herself? She certainly doesn't deserve a subpar body and to struggle financially because she went to prison.

I mean we just had a whole discussion on how Winslow could have been more sensitive in how he shared his new body with May, and how May was hurt by Winslow's insensitivity. Also, all of the characters in the comic, Winslow included!, agree that he could have done it in a better way. Why are you fighting against the comic to validate your personal believes that privilege doesn't exist?

[georgie_leech]

Except she didn't create this situation for herself? She certainly doesn't deserve a subpar body and to struggle financially because she went to prison.

I mean we just had a whole discussion on how Winslow could have been more sensitive in how he shared his new body with May, and how May was hurt by Winslow's insensitivity. Also, all of the characters in the comic, Winslow included!, agree that he could have done it in a better way. Why are you fighting against the comic to validate your personal believes that privilege doesn't exist?

In point of fact, we did have that discussion, but that discussion in no way mandates Max be sympathetic for May. Or anyone for that matter. I can understand why May reacted the way she did, but that doesn't mean I have to like her for it.

[Max_Killjoy]

I'd probably have to go too far into real-life specific examples to explain why this notion that "perception is reality" when it comes to people taking offense is such a source of disgust for me.

[Vinyadan]

On one hand, I think that Winslow was wrong in his behaviour, because you aren't supposed to go kick a sleeping dog (aka bad feelings). One of the basic concepts of Western civilization is that you must respect suffering, whatever its origin.

On the other hand, I don't think this is a case of privilege.
To make a comparison: Jack and Luke must pass a French test in a month, and start off on equal ground, but Jack spends the month studying, while Luke spends it playing Tetris. Jack gets a much better note than Luke. Luke is very sad because of his result. Jack is then supposed not to be a **** and not to make the happy dance in front of Luke. But was this the result of privilege?
What I am saying is that not having stolen 750 million dollars isn't a privilege. May effectively sunk her own boat. This isn't like being born in a minority subjected to prejudice. She is disadvantaged, but not because of someone else's privilege, at least for what we know about her, and assuming she said the truth. We don't know where May came from, we don't even know her previous name (Dale named her May). So we don't know if her standing used to be better or worse than Winslow's.

Pity that Momo's chassis isn't good for working. I hope that factored into May's choice of not using it.

[Traab]

Except she didn't create this situation for herself? She certainly doesn't deserve a subpar body and to struggle financially because she went to prison.

I mean we just had a whole discussion on how Winslow could have been more sensitive in how he shared his new body with May, and how May was hurt by Winslow's insensitivity. Also, all of the characters in the comic, Winslow included!, agree that he could have done it in a better way. Why are you fighting against the comic to validate your personal believes that privilege doesn't exist?

She was given that body, she didnt earn it. We can argue about what she "deserves" I guess, but im not sure why you would think the government owes her a nice body after she gets out of robo jail. She has one that does its job tolerably well. Most of the damage done was self inflicted in various odd ways and is her responsibility to get fixed. And yes we had a discussion, one in which several people disagreed with that outlook that winslow was somehow in the wrong. And noone is saying the privilege doesnt exist. We are saying that THIS EXAMPLE is not one of privilege. It was hamfistedly setup, and resolved the instant they spoke again, with the tacit agreement that it was wrong for winslow to feel joy anywhere may might see it for fear of hurting her. And thats just nonsense.

[georgie_leech]

I'd probably have to go too far into real-life specific examples to explain why this notion that "perception is reality" when it comes to people taking offense is such a source of disgust for me.

See, that's fair. That's why I don't think Winslow did anything wrong. May being offended is not the same thing as Winslow being offensive. Where i draw the line is acting like May hurting isn't real.

[Max_Killjoy]

See, that's fair. That's why I don't think Winslow did anything wrong. May being offended is not the same thing as Winslow being offensive. Where i draw the line is acting like May hurting isn't real.

I'm not saying that May hurting isn't real -- I'm saying she's utterly and unfairly misplacing her resulting anger at Winslow.

[eee]

I have no idea what Bubbles is saying, and I'm dubious about looking it up.

I'm not saying that May hurting isn't real -- I'm saying she's utterly and unfairly misplacing her resulting anger at Winslow.

True, that. But then May has a lot of misplaced anger.

[Ibrinar]

I mean we just had a whole discussion on how Winslow could have been more sensitive in how he shared his new body with May, and how May was hurt by Winslow's insensitivity. Also, all of the characters in the comic, Winslow included!, agree that he could have done it in a better way. Why are you fighting against the comic to validate your personal believes that privilege doesn't exist?

That is an odd argument. Not that number of people matters in general but there is just one author and his treatment of the situation is getting criticized. Of course they all view it that way because he views it that way. They are his mouth pieces, that they agree has little bearing on whether you can criticize how he views the situation.



(Btw tangential question: Was she body less before trying to get a fighter jet? Or why didn't she return to her prior state afterward?)

[Keltest]

That is an odd argument. Not that number of people matters in general but there is just one author and his treatment of the situation is getting criticized. Of course they all view it that way because he views it that way. They are his mouth pieces, that they agree has little bearing on whether you can criticize how he views the situation.



(Btw tangential question: Was she body less before trying to get a fighter jet? Or why didn't she return to her prior state afterward?)

We don't know anything about her situation before she went to robot jail, other than she apparently didn't have anything she wanted to return to. That is in part why many people are less than appreciative about May talking down to Winslow in any fashion.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

We don't know anything about her situation before she went to robot jail, other than she apparently didn't have anything she wanted to return to

Given that she had the opportunity to move funds around, it seems she was a financial AI, probably server-based. If so, she never had an actual body, simply existed in a computer and moved money from point A to point B. I would not be surprised if part of her sentencing involved removing the financial sections of her neural net, given how terrible she is with money right now.

GW

[Kato]

HEY PEOPLE, ISN'T BUBBLES TOTALLY CUTE WHEN SHE TRIES TO BE HIP AND BLUSHES? CAN WE TALK ABOUT THAT INSTEAD OF WHATEVER ELSE YOU KEEP ARGUING ABOUT?

[Max_Killjoy]

I have no idea what Bubbles is saying, and I'm dubious about looking it up.

"Hot take" -- common in bad sports "journalism" (see, Steven A Smith, Skip Bayless, Jim Rome); a quick, hyperbolic, unconsidered, unresearched, shallow commentary, often laced with faux outrage or enthusiasm, designed to provoke reaction and gin up ratings in the rapid-fire 24-hour "news" cycle, rather to provide actual information or insight.

"el em ay oh" -- LMAO

[rooster707]

HEY PEOPLE, ISN'T BUBBLES TOTALLY CUTE WHEN SHE TRIES TO BE HIP AND BLUSHES? CAN WE TALK ABOUT THAT INSTEAD OF WHATEVER ELSE YOU KEEP ARGUING ABOUT?

Yes, please.

[Comrade]

Except she didn't create this situation for herself? She certainly doesn't deserve a subpar body and to struggle financially because she went to prison.

She did create the situation for herself. She stole an exorbitant amount of money in hopes of buying a fighter jet, of all things. While I'm all for helping people who have committed crimes reintegrate into society rather than continuing to punish them after they've paid their dues, May is 100% responsible for the choices that led her to where she is and she has no right whatsoever to make Winslow feel like a terrible person just because he didn't make terrible choices and therefore ended up better off than she did.

I mean we just had a whole discussion on how Winslow could have been more sensitive in how he shared his new body with May, and how May was hurt by Winslow's insensitivity. Also, all of the characters in the comic, Winslow included!, agree that he could have done it in a better way. Why are you fighting against the comic to validate your personal believes that privilege doesn't exist?

... what does it matter what the characters think? Every character that's ever appeared in the comic right down to PT410X and Sara could agree with it and it would ultimately still represent the opinion of nobody but the author. And I do not agree with the author's apparent belief that Winslow has to apologise for committing the sin of being happy in May's vicinity-- I find it borderline disgusting, frankly, and entirely unrelated to the issue of privilege. Pretty much everybody I've seen expressing opposition to this whole little arc seems to acknowledge that privilege is an issue whilst asserting that this particular instance is a terrible attempt to address it.

[Keltest]

Whether May brought her situation on herself is rather beside the point, isn't it? Yeah, its probably her own fault, but she's still having these issues, and Winslow is nominally her friend, or at least friendly with her. He should, at the least, be aware that its a bit of a sore spot for her. What he did was tactless, at the least, even if May's reaction is over the top and unjustified.

[Vinyadan]

Possibly related?

http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/10/06
http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/10/07
http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/10/08