Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXIX

[daremetoidareyo]

so,

how's everyone doing?

Shhhhh. You're ruining the suspense.

[Thurbane]

Gah. I really want to explain some things in my build... but no judging yet. =P

so,

how's everyone doing?

Shhhhh. You're ruining the suspense.

[jdizzlean]

the suspense is to suspenseful.

[Zaq]

Gah. I really want to explain some things in my build... but no judging yet. =P

I know that feel, bro.

Patience, my friends. Judging is hard work.

[daremetoidareyo]

I know that feel, bro.

Patience, my friends. Judging is hard work.

Judging is intellectually and emotionally painstaking.

[Wolfem]

This must be a tough one to judge. We usually have at least one judges scores in by now. The deadline was 7:59 GMT today. I assume that is AM but even if it is supposed to be PM they would be due in about 5 minutes from this posting. Was the judging timeline extended?

[The Viscount]

If there are no judgements by the deadline, it is extended until we have adequate time to respond to judging when posted, typically a few days after the judgement for disputes, if any. If someone has announced that they are judging, we wait until they post unless they give some other indication.

We sometimes pass time discussing potential other ingredients. What do people think of Eye of Lolth? I feel like it strikes that balance between granting interesting features while simultaneously not being very good overall.

[Thurbane]

What do people think of Eye of Lolth? I feel like it strikes that balance between granting interesting features while simultaneously not being very good overall.

EoL is an interesting one: basically expects you to be a Rogue/Cleric or similar, then offers 1/2 casting progression, slow Sneak Attack progression and only 4 skill points/level; the class features are decidedly "meh".

In short, a perfect Iron Chef ingredient!

[Venger]

I'd be down to cook an eye of lolth.

[jdizzlean]

In short, a perfect Iron Chef ingredient!

I do not think that word means what you think it means...

[jdizzlean]

and on that note, i'd like to throw out a PRC from expedition to Castle Ravenloft of which i've been obsessed over since i read about it not long ago..


Knight of the Raven

I'd even not cook and judge that round :)

especially since i already have a build planned around it...

[WhamBamSam]

This must be a tough one to judge. We usually have at least one judges scores in by now. The deadline was 7:59 GMT today. I assume that is AM but even if it is supposed to be PM they would be due in about 5 minutes from this posting. Was the judging timeline extended?

It's also a busy time of year for a lot of us, what with the school year getting into full swing and such. I don't know about Amphetryon, but it's been pretty hectic for me of late.

and on that note, i'd like to throw out a PRC from expedition to Castle Ravenloft of which i've been obsessed over since i read about it not long ago..


Knight of the Raven

I'd even not cook and judge that round :)

especially since i already have a build planned around it...

Knight of the Raven is way too good for Iron Chef, and many of the best things it gives you (9/10 casting, full BAB, Turn Undead, extra domains) are optimization staples that aren't weird enough to be interesting.

Some decently powerful (though not as much as Knight of the Raven) ingredients that I've lobbied for include Beast Heart Adept, Demonologist, Mortal Hunter, and DotU Arachnomancer. There are also a number of other somewhat less good (though mostly not terrible) classes that I'd be excited for, such as Bayushi Deceiver, Defiant, Oozemaster, Rage Mage, Doomlord, Visionary Seeker, Life Eater, Scar Enforcer, Eye of Gruumsh, Watch Detective, and Dragon Samurai.

[jdizzlean]

but, but, but

(sobbing and crying here)

BUT!

[Thurbane]

but, but, but

(sobbing and crying here)

BUT!

I for one would be totally down to cook for KoTR. The Chair tosses us a solid PrC once in a while. I think you would get a surprisingly good array of entries (Vizzini would see to that!).

[The Viscount]

Some decently powerful (though not as much as Knight of the Raven) ingredients that I've lobbied for include Beast Heart Adept, Demonologist, Mortal Hunter, and DotU Arachnomancer. There are also a number of other somewhat less good (though mostly not terrible) classes that I'd be excited for, such as Bayushi Deceiver, Defiant, Oozemaster, Rage Mage, Doomlord, Visionary Seeker, Life Eater, Scar Enforcer, Eye of Gruumsh, Watch Detective, and Dragon Samurai.

I would be down for any and all of these ingredients. I feel like I might have already asked, but where is Life Eater from again?

[Thurbane]

I would be down for any and all of these ingredients. I feel like I might have already asked, but where is Life Eater from again?

Not sure...unless maybe it's meant to be Lifedrinker, Soul Eater or Thief of Life?

[WhamBamSam]

I would be down for any and all of these ingredients. I feel like I might have already asked, but where is Life Eater from again?

It's in an obscure web article. I think I've only ever heard of it from someone else mentioning it as a potential IC ingredient.

[Thurbane]

It's in an obscure web article. I think I've only ever heard of it from someone else mentioning it as a potential IC ingredient.

There you go: you'd think I would have known that. List of all Prestige Classes from online articles?

[Zaq]

Life Eater is . . . interesting. Five skills for prereqs kinda hurts, and then it's a relatively tame Sneak Attack-y class for an unfortunately long time before we suddenly start getting some very weird and cool unique abilities. At least its intermediary levels are merely uninspiring rather than truly weak.

The fact that we just had a mandatory CE class with a demonic patron makes it seem less likely, but hey, you never know.

Also, ToD requires but does not advance SA. LE advances but does not require SA. Why? Because CHAOTIC Evil, that's why.

[Thurbane]

It's in an obscure web article. I think I've only ever heard of it from someone else mentioning it as a potential IC ingredient.

There you go: you'd think I would have known that. List of all Prestige Classes from online articles?

Life Eater is . . . interesting. Five skills for prereqs kinda hurts, and then it's a relatively tame Sneak Attack-y class for an unfortunately long time before we suddenly start getting some very weird and cool unique abilities. At least its intermediary levels are merely uninspiring rather than truly weak.

The fact that we just had a mandatory CE class with a demonic patron makes it seem less likely, but hey, you never know.

Also, ToD requires but does not advance SA. LE advances but does not require SA. Why? Because CHAOTIC Evil, that's why.

It looks like an interesting ingredient, for sure. But yeah, might need a cool-down between Demon-lord themed PrCs.

[jdizzlean]

how about everyone's a winner this time?

[Zaq]

how about everyone's a winner this time?

Patience, my friend. Judging for five or six builds takes a long time; judging for twelve is going to be a truly heroic effort.

I will say that, speaking for myself alone, while it's a great feeling to take a medal (or HM, as appropriate), it's often just as satisfying to see the judge's or judges' reaction(s) to your build. I'm certainly willing to wait for that if waiting is necessary.

(Besides, we're already all winners. Simply submitting an entry is a nontrivial achievement most of the time, and I'm not just saying that.)

[bean illus]

The two times i tried to cook i was late, and the work was subpar, at best.
It's grueling hours of chasing leads that go no where. Fun, but not easy.

[jdizzlean]

Patience, my friend. Judging for five or six builds takes a long time; judging for twelve is going to be a truly heroic effort.

I will say that, speaking for myself alone, while it's a great feeling to take a medal (or HM, as appropriate), it's often just as satisfying to see the judge's or judges' reaction(s) to your build. I'm certainly willing to wait for that if waiting is necessary.

(Besides, we're already all winners. Simply submitting an entry is a nontrivial achievement most of the time, and I'm not just saying that.)

I know, i'm just impatient :P

[Darrin]

how about everyone's a winner this time?

I don't think that will work for me, as I made some mistakes that probably knocked me out of medal contention.

I am, however, quite pleased with the round in general. Lots of great ideas!

[Wolfem]

[Darrin]

Some future SI possibilities...

I'd really like to see Menacing Brute, but it's only 5 levels long. So I was thinking... can we pair this up with another 5-level PrC, and have a "two secret ingredients" round? There are some other pairings that also come to mind...

How about:

Menacing Brute (CWar) + Streetfighter (CAdv)
Leviathan Hunter (Stormwrack) + Reaping Mauler (CWar)
Trapsmith (Dungeonscape) + Combat Trapsmith (CSco)
Outcast Champion (RoD) + Orc Warlord (Races of Faerun)
Force Missile Mage (DMC) + Argent Savant (CArc)
Mantis Mercenary (OA) + Tempest (CAdv)
Thief-Acrobat (CAdv) + Shadow Thief of Amn (PGtF)
Master Thrower (CWar) + Invisible Blade (CWar) (as it was originally designed)

[Venger]

Some future SI possibilities...

I'd really like to see Menacing Brute, but it's only 5 levels long. So I was thinking... can we pair this up with another 5-level PrC, and have a "two secret ingredients" round? There are some other pairings that also come to mind...

How about:

Menacing Brute (CWar) + Streetfighter (CAdv)
Leviathan Hunter (Stormwrack) + Reaping Mauler (CWar)
Trapsmith (Dungeonscape) + Combat Trapsmith (CSco)
Outcast Champion (RoD) + Orc Warlord (Races of Faerun)
Force Missile Mage (DMC) + Argent Savant (CArc)
Mantis Mercenary (OA) + Tempest (CAdv)
Thief-Acrobat (CAdv) + Shadow Thief of Amn (PGtF)
Master Thrower (CWar) + Invisible Blade (CWar) (as it was originally designed)

I could go for another 5 lvl, like dungeon lord, but I'd advise against saying 2 different 5 lvl ingredients. given the kinds of stuff we'll pick, the taxes we'll have to pay will really kill our variety.

those all sounds pretty fun.

as far as 10 level prestige classes, I'd really like to cook a deneith warden.

[Thurbane]

If someone was willing to revive Junkyward Wars In The Playground, that's the perfect comp for mashing 2 PrCs together.

1. Junkyard Wars in the Playground I: Shadowdancer + Sneak Attack - Rogue
2. Junkyard Wars in the Playground II: Healing Spells + Ruby Knight Vindicator - Cleric
3. Junkyard Wars in the Playground III: Dragons + Theurges - Kobolds
4. Junkyard Wars in the Playground IV: BoED + Undead Type - Completes
5. Junkyard Wars in the Playground V: Dread Witch + Reaping Mauler - Fighter
6. Junkyard Wars in the Playground VI: Wonderworker + Profession Skill - Factotum
7. Junkyard Wars in the Playground VII: Metamagic Feats + LA - Metamagic Reducers!
8. Junkyard Wars in the Playground VIII: Pounce+Small Size-Barbarian
9. Junkyard Wars in the Playground IX: Earth Dreamer + Ordained Champion - Cleric
10. Junkyard Wars in the Playground X: Meldshaping + Natural Attacks - Totemist
11. Junkyard Wars in the Playground XI: Magical Darkness + Improved Familiar - Wizard
12. Junkyard Wars in the Playground XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Martial Weapons
13. Junkyard Wars in the Playground XIII: Mulhorandi Divine Minion + Monk - Any Other Wildshaping
14. Junkyard Wars in the Playground XIV: Racial Paragon Classes + Spellcasting - Base Classes
15. Junkyard Wars in the Playground XV: Ruathar + Stoneblessed - Human

...my vote would be Elemental Warrior for one of the 5 level classes.

[bean illus]

A compromise to the five level PRC conundrum could be something like,

X+Y+10=20
Where X is known and Y is not.