4th edition!

[leperkhaun]

hmmmmmm. Im not sure how i feel about this. Im kinda happy because it COULD allow them to redo some of the balance issues.....but ill bet its gonna be 3.5 updated thats going to cost more because now everything will have a box of mini's that come with it (FREE, the book now only costs 10 more bucks).

[Funkyodor]

I think they might just skip 4th ed. and go straight to 5th ed. And make it a card game to boot.

"Aw man! How many Power Attacks do you have in that Character Pile?"
"Ah-ha! I counter with my Munchkin Card causing my kobold to gain infinate Stats and HP! Go Pun-Pun!"
"Crap, you accumulated enough gold to get your Rocks Fall People Die card to kill all active PC's and cripple retired PC's"

[Aotrs Commander]

Really? That's my number one desire for 4E. Right now, combat at any level higher than about 6 or 7 involves far, far too much time spent adding up modifiers, tracking durations, looking up spell effects, trying to remember which debuff affects which stats, calculating the effect of 5 points of Strength damage on a monster's secondary natural weapon, and hunting for that last +1 under the couch.

And the grapple rules need a major fix, too.

There's simplification and there's simplification.

While I agree grappling needs to be cleaned up (taking into account nonhumanoids from the start would be favourite), and I could stand to lose the tracking the various bonus stacking, maybe by just making only the highest of any effect count (though myself I don't find it problematic) what worries me is the fact they may simplify the interesting bits - like skills and so on.

My biggest worry is that 4E will be basically a clone of Saga, which am not best impressed with. I really, really dislike the SW Saga skill system. I can just about tolerate it in SW, but every other system I've played has skills as the character's primary means of development. To me, it's a step back to AD&D. Or that in Saga, the differentiation between the classes has apparently dropped (which to me, kind of defeats the object of a class-based system). If it's simplified in that sort of manner, then I'm out.

[Citizen Joe]

the fact the PHB comes "packaged with pre-painted miniatures" according to that article hints that they will be making a definite move to miniature heavy combat, which is probably a bad sign for those hoping for more roleplay emphasis in the new edition but hardly surprising considering the popularity that miniature games are having at the moment.

I believe Mattel has recently taken it on the nose, recalling MILLIONS of toys that were painted (with lead paint) in China. Pre-painting miniatures is a time consuming process that cannot possibly be done economically with American labor. If they do put out miniatures with sets they would much more likely be plastic and unpainted. Even that would bump up the age category.

[Matthew]

A step back to AD&D? Oh happy days... very unlikely.

[Jarlax]

I believe Mattel has recently taken it on the nose, recalling MILLIONS of toys that were painted (with lead paint) in China. Pre-painting miniatures is a time consuming process that cannot possibly be done economically with American labor. If they do put out miniatures with sets they would much more likely be plastic and unpainted. Even that would bump up the age category.

D&D minis would certainly count as pre-painted minis, so they already exist. you do it with machines, not people.

[tarbrush]

I too am terrified of D&D for morons. Whilst I admit that the magic system needs a complete overhaul, and diplomacy needs to better tolerate high level characters (along with things like grapple etc), I don't think the basic mechanics are flawed. Seeing a reversion to AD&D would suck all the fun out of the game.

The only thing I can see its that they're trying to sell to a wider audience (Lookie everyone! Simple mechanics and brightly coloured minis) but I just can't see D&D going mainstream enough to make it worthwhile.

[The Demented One]

Oh gods...if this really is 4th edition, that means the Monster Manual, and the SRD monsters, are all going to get put in the new format...

NO!

[Citizen Joe]

I don't know if it would be a good idea, but they may drop the title Dungeons and Dragons and call it D20 System: Adventure. I still think cards are going to be part of it. DND has been slowly migrating back to its roots as a board game/battle simulator. Eventually, you won't even need a DM. All the rules will be hardcoded and you just draw encounters from a deck.

Actually, I would very much like to see specific examples put in to deal with applying certain rules/feats. Maybe something along the lines of PC1 does something and gets screwed because he doesn't have a certain feat, then PC2 does the same thing with a specific feat to demonstrate how they work.

[Dausuul]

My biggest worry is that 4E will be basically a clone of Saga, which am not best impressed with. I really, really dislike the SW Saga skill system. I can just about tolerate it in SW, but every other system I've played has skills as the character's primary means of development. To me, it's a step back to AD&D. Or that in Saga, the differentiation between the classes has apparently dropped (which to me, kind of defeats the object of a class-based system). If it's simplified in that sort of manner, then I'm out.

*pauses to go read some reviews of Saga*

Okay, while I see where you're coming from, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. What I'm reading about Saga has me very impressed (no more iterative attacks, hallelujah!) and I hope to see a lot of those innovations carry over into 4E. I even like the look of the new skill system, though I hope it will be possible to add more "trained skills" as you level up.

I don't know if it would be a good idea, but they may drop the title Dungeons and Dragons and call it D20 System: Adventure.

Not bloody likely. Dungeons and Dragons is far too valuable a brand for them to just toss it over the side. That would be like the Coca-Cola corporation changing the name of their flagship product to FizzyDrink.

[yango]

Oh gods...if this really is 4th edition, that means the Monster Manual, and the SRD monsters, are all going to get put in the new format...

NO!

This is going on the assumption that the new system will be similar enough that the new stat block format will be applicable.

[Dausuul]

This is going on the assumption that the new system will be similar enough that the new stat block format will be applicable.

The exact format may not be, but the basic concept (separate sections for attack data, defense data, et cetera) certainly will.

[MrNexx]

Yep... In this post, there's a link to a screenshot.

Looks pretty real (if that was 'shopping, it was quick, besides, several people have seen the same... and the links work).

Cheers, LT.

I saw the forums for 4th edition, as well, for the brief time they were up.

[MrNexx]

My biggest concern is this May 2008 release date. I'm not sure whether or not to trust that. If it is, then I think we have a problem. WotC have, for months, answered every query about 4E with a denial that they were considering it. So either they were lying to their cutomer base (real smart) or they are planning on putting something out without mcuh play testing. I suspect, if true, they may have been 'stealth designing' using Saga and such as a base. However, even Saga's not been out very long, and I find it hard to believe they feel they've got enough feedback on that yet. So it may be that they have already decided (perhaps unofficially, so they could lie to us) to use some or all of Saga in 4th. (Which I personally I think is a big step back in a lot of respects, though Saga did have a few clever ideas). As Saga is simiplified a great deal, it leads me to beleive this even more.

*sings*I told you!*

This is very close to what they did with 3.0; denydenydeny, Oh, wait you meant that new edition?

[Fhaolan]

Packaged with prepainted miniatures? Interesting... Hadn't thought of that one. I was under the impression that the miniature product lines weren't doing so well in sales anymore, but that might be why they're thinking in that direction. Pushing harder the inventory they already have, as it were.

They've tried card accessories for D&D on several occasions. I have large boxes full of AD&D 2nd edition encounter and treasure cards somewhere, because people kept giving them to me. What I wanted was the spell cards, but I couldn't justify buying them myself.

Back when 3.0 was about to be announced, my friends and I were speculating that they were going to pull the spells and magic items out of the PHB and DMG, just to make them lighter, cheaper books to increase sales, and have the spell cards and magic item cards as an additional purchase. And elimiate the MM, using card sets for the monsters. It didn't make 100% sense, but there was an attraction to the idea as TSR had been bought out by WotC fairly recently and all we knew about WotC was Magic.

It makes the same sort of sense for Hasbro to be pushing more toys into D&D. Maybe they'll change the scale of minatures again, up a couple of notches so you can have accesories that clip onto the miniatures for customization. Just a touch larger than those Clix things that were popular for a brief span.

[Charity]

Whatever, Charity! You never even made the switch from 3.0 to 3.5!

Nyuk nyuk.
Though in all honesty, there are things I prefer about 3.0.

Folk are going on like this is the end of all that is good, the dawning of a new dark era, the rise of the empire etc.
It's a new system (possibly) they won't be comming round and burning all your 3rd edition stuff, if you like 3rd ed... well continue to play 3rd ed, is my advice (not you Matthew, we all know you play 2nd ed hybridhomebrew, which sounds cool btw, I wish I could be arsed to do similar sometimes... usually when I'm tring to work out what happens when you grapple a dragon in mid air... ramble ramble)

Considering I havn't bought a full price D&D book .. ever I think I've had pretty good value out of mine. I played 1st ed, 3rd ed, guess I'll wait for 5th ed, I'm a bit odd like that.

[Arbitrarity]

The even-odd rule applies to D&D?

[KIDS]

I'm not really sure it's a countdown for (presentation of) 4th edition, but I expect all the best from it when it comes!

[Matthew]

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=21975

Nyuk nyuk.
Though in all honesty, there are things I prefer about 3.0.

Yep, there are some better things about 3e - I'm looking at you Power Attack!

Folk are going on like this is the end of all that is good, the dawning of a new dark era, the rise of the empire etc.
It's a new system (possibly) they won't be comming round and burning all your 3rd edition stuff, if you like 3rd ed... well continue to play 3rd ed, is my advice (not you Matthew, we all know you play 2nd ed hybridhomebrew, which sounds cool btw, I wish I could be arsed to do similar sometimes... usually when I'm tring to work out what happens when you grapple a dragon in mid air... ramble ramble)

Hey, I use the appropriate editions when playing Pre Published Modules! But yeah, it's stuff like this that caused me to create my own edition for my own use.

Considering I havn't bought a full price D&D book .. ever I think I've had pretty good value out of mine. I played 1st ed, 3rd ed, guess I'll wait for 5th ed, I'm a bit odd like that.

No doubt.

[rollfrenzy]

Nyuk nyuk.
*Snip*
I'm a bit odd like that.

**Groan**



I am (don't tell my group) looking forward to a new edition, especially if it is a more streamilined system. I just hope it isn't Miniatures: the RPG.

[Ichneumon]

Anyone else noticed the enlarged D & D logo under 4dventure? You can see a dragonic symbol which could be the & and a part of each D.

[RTGoodman]

Well, apparently I went to sleep for 8 hours or so, and there's now been an announcement of sorts. I'm not sure if it's official, but I don't think anyone' mentioned it on this board yet:

August 16, 2007 (Renton, WA) – Whether you storm a mad wizard's tower every week or haven't delved into a dungeon since you had a mullet and a mean pair of parachute pants, one thing is certain - millions of D&D players worldwide have anticipated the coming of 4th Edition for many years. Today, Wizards of the Coast confirms that the new edition will launch in May 2008 with the release of the D&D Player's Handbook. A pop culture icon, Dungeons & Dragons is the #1 tabletop roleplaying game in the world, and is revered by legions of gamers of all ages.

The 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons game includes elements familiar to current D&D players, including illustrated rulebooks and pre-painted plastic miniatures. Also releasing next year will be new web-based tools and online community forums through the brand-new Dungeons & Dragons Insider (D&D Insider) digital offering. D&D Insider lowers the barriers of entry for new players while simultaneously offering the depth of play that appeals to veteran players.

The 4th Edition rules emphasize faster game play, offer exciting new character options, and reduce the amount of "prep time" needed to run the game. D&D Insider includes a character creator that lets players design and equip their D&D characters, dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet — the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together.

"We've been gathering player feedback for eight years," said Bill Slavicsek, R&D Director of Roleplaying and Miniatures Games at Wizards of the Coast. "Fourth Edition streamlines parts of the D&D game that are too complex, while enhancing the overall play experience. At its heart, it's still a tabletop game experience. However, D&D Insider makes it easier for players to create characters, run their games, and interact with the rest of the D&D community."

Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January — Wizards Presents: Classes and Races and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters. The first live demos of 4th Edition will happen at the D&D Experience gaming convention in Washington D.C. in February 2008. The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.

Since its first release in 1974, the fantasy roleplaying game Dungeons & Dragons has taken millions of players on imaginary adventures of epic scale. Today, D&D is universally regarded as the original game that created the roleplaying game category, and the inspiration for generations of game designers. D&D is enjoyed by millions of players worldwide, while countless more remember it with fond nostalgia.

So there's that. Like I said though, I'm not sure if entirely legit, but it seems like it. Here's the link to the page it's on.

[Tormsskull]

Oh this is awesome! The golden age of any edition, when the core books come out and before the first splat books come out. I'm looking forward to the new edition and to listening to all the die-hard 3Eers.

[Ichneumon]

I will buy the 4e playerhandbook, maybe, if I like what they did with the spellcasting (Come one, WotC, we need a new spellcasting system other than Vancian, something more like the classes from, ToM or ToB and MoI)

Also, I would like to see what they did to races. I hope they made it more balanced and made it matter more, on the long term.

[Matthew]

I will probably haunt the Internet, listening to people who have bought the PHB and then haunt my Game Shop, perusing the PHB. Then, I still probably won't buy it... (I inherited most of my 3e stuff)

[banjo1985]

A new edition would be interesting, and it's been 7 years since the last iteration came out, so it might be getting towards the right time. My gaming group has completely moved away from 3.5, so it will be interesting to see whether a 4th edition would be good enough to bring us back to the fold.

[Porthos]

One good thing is that it is being published under the OGL and there will be a brand spanking new SRD to go along with it.

Source

Really, this is just about the best news possible for 4E. If only so that we don't have to hear the whining from the Open Source Content crowd.

[Arbitrarity]

Awesomesauce. That is made of win, for it means we can examine the mechanics.

[Fax Celestis]

One good thing is that it is being published under the OGL and there will be a brand spanking new SRD to go along with it.

Source

Really, this is just about the best news possible for 4E. If only so that we don't have to hear the whining from the Open Source Content crowd.

What I want to know is if they're going to relax OGL on 3.5e.

[Grey Paladin]

Well in case you needed any more official confirmations, Silver Stars (the Israeli Roleplaying publisher) has made an official announcement about 4E just now.

They have also given the following release dates for the English editions of the core books.

The Player's Handbook will be released at May 2008,
Each month after that another book will be released,
The Monster Manual will be released second and the Dungeon Master's Guide will be released third, it also seems there will be 7 (!) core books this time around, but 4 of them are optional and Silver Stars refused to tell us about them, speculations are that one of them is the new Psioncs Handbook.

The system will stay D20, OGL, and will have a new SRD constructed for it within half a year of its release.