Is this minor change to the bard seem ok?

[NecroDancer]

So I was looking for an optional way to make the bard the equivalent of a lawyer.

The changes I make would be allowing the bard would use perform: oratory for their arguments and have bardic knowledge apply to knowledge about the law, famous court cases, and legal loopholes. I'd also lift the alignment restrictions so the bard can be lawful.

Would you allow this variant at your table? What would you change? Thanks for the feedback.

[Grod_The_Giant]

• The first you can already do.
• The second is a strict downgrade. Given what Bardic Knowledge already covers, I'd be fine extending it to laws and putting a legal slant on the information it gives you.
• The third is not just fine but encouraged-- D&D alignment is a pox on roleplaying, and class-based restrictions doubly so.

[Bronk]

Does it have to still be a bard? It sounds more like a variant aristocrat, an archivist, or a cloistered cleric.

Maybe a variant bard with a cool name? They used to have those as kits back in AD&D. Maybe call it an Oratory Lawyer or something, and make it partially or fully dependent on Int instead of Cha. You could rename the class features with law-ish names, and yeah, make it lawful.

I could see a regular bard stepping in as a lawyer temporarily, in a kind of 'My Cousin Vinny' way. That would be perfect...

Spoiler: Spoiler for a decades old film that is still fun to watch at least once.

Show

...bluffing your way into the courtroom without the right credentials, quickly making friends with and influencing various people around town, pulling off a win in a flashy way, and skipping town ASAP.

[Debatra]

In a strict RAW sense, the only thing that gets in the way is the Lawful alignment, but that tends to also be the most flexible issue in real play. Bards also have all Knowledges as class skills. History for the obvious; and Local explicitly includes laws, customs, traditions, etc.

[Rebel7284]

Why can't you have a chaotic lawyer? You can be perfectly willing to break laws and still know them very well. Not unlike MANY IRL lawyers.

[Nifft]

In my personal interpretation of Law-vs-Chaos:

- Law is about collective good. A district attorney is probably Lawful.

- Chaos is about individual good. A public defender lawyer is probably Chaotic.

- A corporate lawyer might be Chaotic (small business vs. system), or Lawful (if the corporation is her "collective good").

So, I'd have no issue with a Chaotic Lawyer Bard. I'd just make sure she got RP points for behaving in a manner that favored individualism over collectivism.

[Feantar]

Just say that Bardic Knowledge additionally substitutes as a Profession(Lawyer) check. In theory it makes the class stronger, in practice it is not even a blip in the power radar. The opposite reduces the feature significantly. Also, check the bardic sage variant for a more lore orientated bard.

I am trying to picture what this character would be doing within battle - debate the enemy to death?

In my personal interpretation of Law-vs-Chaos:

- Law is about collective good. A district attorney is probably Lawful.

- Chaos is about individual good. A public defender lawyer is probably Chaotic.

- A corporate lawyer might be Chaotic (small business vs. system), or Lawful (if the corporation is her "collective good").

So, I'd have no issue with a Chaotic Lawyer Bard. I'd just make sure she got RP points for behaving in a manner that favored individualism over collectivism.

Sidebar - Law and Chaos are about good? Or do you mean Lawful Good and Chaotic Good?

[Nifft]

I am trying to picture what this character would be doing within battle - debate the enemy to death?

Compare:

"I am trying to picture what a Diplomacy-focused character would be doing within battle - diplomacy the enemy to death?"

Sidebar - Law and Chaos are about good? Or do you mean Lawful Good and Chaotic Good?

I'm using short hand, and the comparison is intended to be most helpful to the PC end of the spectrum, which is generally tilted towards Neutral & Good.

But no, I'm not ignoring Evil.

[tstewt1921]

If the person or who is playing it is willing to RP it well as none of it is game breaking this all seems perfectly fine to me.

Bardic Knowledge though does already incorporate laws and what not as it's general knowledge, if you wanted to specialize in law I would just do Knowledge: Laws & Cases as an extra knowledge to learn.

[Psyren]

Pathfinder Bard can already do all of these. Laws and court systems would probably be covered under Local, Nobility, and/or History.