An Enemy Spy Reads The Wheel of Time III: Something's Fishy in the White Tower

[The New Bruceski]

Elayne thinks it's ironic that the High Lords hate the One Power now considering that their massive fortress was made with it, and Nynaeve very sensibly suggests that maybe now would be a good time to not talk about the One Power out in public so as not to attract attention to themselves. Elayne agrees with her which for some reason Egwene has a problem with. What, she's jealous that Elayne thought Nynaeve made a good point? I don't get it. Please tell me we're not going to get a platonic love triangle in Team Magikarp. That's just too much to bear.

The Egwene/Nayneve relationship is still her being a Wisdom and Egwene being the kid, while she sees herself on the same level as Elayne. So the jealousy here is like when a kid's getting chewed out and one of their friends sides with the parent.

[lord_khaine]

She knows a thief-catcher named Juilin Sandar who she describes as the most dangerous man she knows with a sword, though not as dangerous as the actual most dangerous man she knows, who isn't a swordsman. I wonder who that is?

You likely skipped a little to swiftly across this bit?
Julian isnt a swordsman. As i recall in Tear the sword is a noble weapon.
But Julian is the most dangerous man she knows all the same.

[Ninja_Prawn]

...ends it by establishing dominance...

T-pose to assert dominance!

[Traab]

Yeah, the endless fights for the pecking order are as amusing as they are stupid as they are annoying. Pretty much everyone does it to some extent. In fact, wasnt that one of the issues between the matt, perrin, rand dynamic in book 2? Things were changing, rand was being treated different, and they were getting annoyed with real or perceived or even a mix of the two, changes in how rand was acting like he was a noble or some such? But for the ladies, especially the magical girls, this is a way of life. Im pretty sure we see it off and on for everyone in the tower as they are all strong willed stubborn women who think they are right and therefore everyone arguing with them is wrong which leads to "subtle" power plays as one side or the other gets put down as lower ranking, weaker in the power, etc. "We will do it my way or I will feed you your feet and make you swallow" Seems like a strangely mannish way to settle disputes, but it seems to be the running theme, if not often openly stated that way.

[Anteros]

Yeah, the endless fights for the pecking order are as amusing as they are stupid as they are annoying. Pretty much everyone does it to some extent. In fact, wasnt that one of the issues between the matt, perrin, rand dynamic in book 2? Things were changing, rand was being treated different, and they were getting annoyed with real or perceived or even a mix of the two, changes in how rand was acting like he was a noble or some such? But for the ladies, especially the magical girls, this is a way of life. Im pretty sure we see it off and on for everyone in the tower as they are all strong willed stubborn women who think they are right and therefore everyone arguing with them is wrong which leads to "subtle" power plays as one side or the other gets put down as lower ranking, weaker in the power, etc. "We will do it my way or I will feed you your feet and make you swallow" Seems like a strangely mannish way to settle disputes, but it seems to be the running theme, if not often openly stated that way.

Sorta, but that was more due to Rand purposefully trying to drive his friends away by pretending he thought he was too good for them than jealousy on their part.

[Traab]

Sorta, but that was more due to Rand purposefully trying to drive his friends away by pretending he thought he was too good for them than jealousy on their part.

Werent they already thinking that so thats why he used it to drive them off? Maybe its a bit of a chicken or the egg there, I dunno. Its been awhile but iirc at the start of book 2 matt and perrin were spending more time with the stablemen and other such while rand was getting training from lan, and dressing better than they were and spending time with the higher ups for reasons I cant recall (probably morainne related) and so forth and they took that as rand acting like he felt he was a nobleman and when rand realized thats what they thought he used it to push them away in an attempt to protect them or whatever.

[snowblizz]

Werent they already thinking that so thats why he used it to drive them off? Maybe its a bit of a chicken or the egg there, I dunno. Its been awhile but iirc at the start of book 2 matt and perrin were spending more time with the stablemen and other such while rand was getting training from lan, and dressing better than they were and spending time with the higher ups for reasons I cant recall (probably morainne related) and so forth and they took that as rand acting like he felt he was a nobleman and when rand realized thats what they thought he used it to push them away in an attempt to protect them or whatever.

Yup Moraine all the way. Stole all his clothes even. Mat&Perrin didn't take it too well. And Rand embraced that when he realised he could channel and that he was being shepherded for Dragonhood. No one shepherds the sheep herder.

[Sapphire Guard]

Would be nice to get a chapter or two where Rand actually gets to herd sheep.

[GrayDeath]

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He has many where he has to herd "Human Sheep", dont worry ^^

[Tvtyrant]

Yup Moraine all the way. Stole all his clothes even. Mat&Perrin didn't take it too well. And Rand embraced that when he realised he could channel and that he was being shepherded for Dragonhood. No one shepherds the sheep herder.

Perrin is a lot kinder about it then Mat, who basically treats Rand like a leper for

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the entire series.

On the petty infighting: I think that is Jordan's best trait. Everyone feels like a real person instead of a heroic archetype; even Lan is irritable and opinionated by the end.

[georgie_leech]

Perrin is a lot kinder about it then Mat, who basically treats Rand like a leper for

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the entire series.

On the petty infighting: I think that is Jordan's best trait. Everyone feels like a real person instead of a heroic archetype; even Lan is irritable and opinionated by the end.

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In fairness, I'm not sure how much of that is aimed at Rand so much as part of his general attitude of "destiny can't tell me what to do!" that he has for most of the series until destiny beats it into his skull that it'll go a lot smoother if he stops pretending he's not a main character. Rand is sort of a walking reminder of the forces of destiny.

[Traab]

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In fairness, I'm not sure how much of that is aimed at Rand so much as part of his general attitude of "destiny can't tell me what to do!" that he has for most of the series until destiny beats it into his skull that it'll go a lot smoother if he stops pretending he's not a main character. Rand is sort of a walking reminder of the forces of destiny.

I agree with you completely.

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I still say the formation of the band of the red hand is the funniest example of how no matter how hard he tries, he cant escape. He goes from "Eff this, im not fighting in the battle, peace out losers." To, "Well, i cant just leave these guys to die in ambush, I will warn them then take off." To "Ok battalion I have rescued piece by piece and for some gods foresaken reason thinks im in charge, lets attack this band of bad guys (and maybe I can make my escape in the confusion) CHARGE!!!" To, "dangit, ok I may be in charge, but im going to be really surly about it."

[lord_khaine]

Perrin is a lot kinder about it then Mat, who basically treats Rand like a leper for

For being, in his own way, far, far more dangerous to anyone around him than an entire colony of lepers.. ?
Something that Mat has been taught his entire life. And that also happens to be true.. ?

[Anteros]

For being, in his own way, far, far more dangerous to anyone around him than an entire colony of lepers.. ?
Something that Mat has been taught his entire life. And that also happens to be true.. ?

Not to mention

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being literally insane, and constantly ordering Mat into life threatening situations he doesn't want to be in. I'm pretty sure most of us would stop hanging out with people for less.

[lord_khaine]

Thats not even a spolier?
We have been told directly that men who can channel goes insane. Thats people who can uproot a tree with their mind.
Not like anyone would sit besides a drunk elephant either?

[Douglas]

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It's been stated already that all men who channel go insane, yes, but the time scale varies and how quickly it happens to Rand, specifically, is still a spoiler.

"Uproot a tree"? The Breaking of the World wasn't done by men who could uproot trees. Well, technically they could, but it's not an accurate indication of their power. Lews Therin pierced the Earth's crust, causing a whole new volcano to form from nothing and grow to immense height in an area not otherwise tectonically active. That's a level of destructive power that makes fusion bombs seem weak.

He was the strongest of them all, and even for him it took an effort so great that it killed him, but that just means the more typical high-end male channeler threat is merely on par with atomic weapons. Reusable atomic weapons that can't be detected before they go off and are wielded by crazy people.

[snowblizz]

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He has many where he has to herd "Human Sheep", dont worry ^^

That's more like herding cats though.

Not like anyone would sit besides a drunk elephant either?

Drunk elephants make great buddies. Always got the trunk full of beer to share.

Perrin is a lot kinder about it then Mat, who basically treats Rand like a leper.

For being, in his own way, far, far more dangerous to anyone around him than an entire colony of lepers.. ?
Something that Mat has been taught his entire life. And that also happens to be true.. ?

Rand stuck to Mat while *Mat* was the menace to society and going mad. If I wanted to be charitable I guess Rand's situation kinda reminds Mat of that unpleasant time.

Perrin takes it more in his stride. Basically, Mat is a bit of a rooster at this point.

That the characters have varied and for them appropriate reactions ofc is one of the greatest strengths of the series.

[lord_khaine]

"Uproot a tree"? The Breaking of the World wasn't done by men who could uproot trees. Well, technically they could, but it's not an accurate indication of their power. Lews Therin pierced the Earth's crust, causing a whole new volcano to form from nothing and grow to immense height in an area not otherwise tectonically active. That's a level of destructive power that makes fusion bombs seem weak.

An accurate indication of their power is kinda irellevant for Mat.
When you move past the level of force that pulls him apart without efford, then i doubt he care about just how easily he were killed..

[Traab]

An accurate indication of their power is kinda irellevant for Mat.
When you move past the level of force that pulls him apart without efford, then i doubt he care about just how easily he were killed..

Exactly, reduced to dust is still reduced to dust. It doesnt matter how fine that dust is, you are still dead.

[Anteros]

Rand stuck to Mat while *Mat* was the menace to society and going mad. If I wanted to be charitable I guess Rand's situation kinda reminds Mat of that unpleasant time.

Perrin takes it more in his stride. Basically, Mat is a bit of a rooster at this point.

That the characters have varied and for them appropriate reactions ofc is one of the greatest strengths of the series.

That's true. Mat was dying though, and I'm sure if the situation was reversed Mat would have done the same thing for Rand. He would have just grumbled and proclaimed that he wasn't going to do so while he did it. Sorta like he already does.

[Lapak]

That's true. Mat was dying though, and I'm sure if the situation was reversed Mat would have done the same thing for Rand. He would have just grumbled and proclaimed that he wasn't going to do so while he did it. Sorta like he already does.

This series does consistently model the idea that actions matter more than words. A large majority of the heroic characters grumble or complain or straight up say they will not do something (it's not my business, I don't owe them anything, they got themselves into this, etc) and then go ahead and do the right thing even at a cost to themselves.

Conversely, a lot of the villains talk a big game about their own virtue or good intentions while committing terrible deeds. Arguably, the delta between 'stated intentions' and 'actual outcomes' is the best metric for how good or bad someone in this series is.

[Ashen Lilies]

So we have our Moiraine.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06...?sf104382652=1

[An Enemy Spy]

So we have our Moiraine.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06...?sf104382652=1

Good choice. She's got that ageless look that pierces into your soul down pat.

[Anteros]

She's a good choice, but I still think the WoT is too high magic to ever do a proper live action of. You could maybe do the first few books, but eventually there just won't be the budget to do it justice.

[WalkingTarget]

I really wonder how they're going to handle the One Power in the show. Like, early on when Moiraine is using the One Power will it just be the effect shown and they start incorporating visual elements of the Power itself as the characters learn to use it/see it? The difference in perception between characters who can channel and those that can't could be hard to get across - showing how much of a rush the channeller feels when embracing the True Source compared to what nearby muggles would see (i.e. no difference) could be tricky.

[Anteros]

I really wonder how they're going to handle the One Power in the show. Like, early on when Moiraine is using the One Power will it just be the effect shown and they start incorporating visual elements of the Power itself as the characters learn to use it/see it? The difference in perception between characters who can channel and those that can't could be hard to get across - showing how much of a rush the channeller feels when embracing the True Source compared to what nearby muggles would see (i.e. no difference) could be tricky.

I would just do it like normal, except maybe a handful of scenes from the character's point of view...maybe when they're just learning to channel? Otherwise ignore it and treat it like magic in any other series. It's not the kind of thing that would translate well to live television in my opinion.

[Gnoman]

I would have it be from the perspective of whoever the scene is focused on. The series is going to have to do a rotating POV unless they want to make far greater changes than implied.

[Velaryon]

She's a good choice, but I still think the WoT is too high magic to ever do a proper live action of. You could maybe do the first few books, but eventually there just won't be the budget to do it justice.

My concern is less the budget and more that the series is so long, there's no way in hell they're going to cover the whole thing. Either the series will be a severely abridged version of the story, or it will be cancelled, or actors will leave before it's ended.

[Gnoman]

While long, the series isn't as long as it might seem. A big part of the length is description of scenery, mannerisms, and tone of voice - all of which take up very little screen time compared to what they take up on the page. Granted, there will also be elements that take up more screen time than page time, but these are almost certainly a smaller part of the work. They'll certainly need some judicious trimming, but not as much as you would expect.

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So many of the characters spend so much time dead or out of focus that the actor problem is also going to be less. Rand, Perrin, Mat, and Magikarp are the only ones I can think of that absolutely need to be present for the whole thing.

[Anteros]

The ending we already got was basically the abridged ending. I don't mind if they have to change some things to make it work because honestly the end wasn't that great anyway. Sanderson took a LOT of liberties with the characters and setting. I'm not saying he didn't do his best, and I know it was a lot to ask, but the end could certainly have been better.