Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

[Triaxx]

Haruspex, have you got the DLC? If so one of them adds a recipe for a healing poultice that also heals limbs.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Haruspex, have you got the DLC? If so one of them adds a recipe for a healing poultice that also heals limbs.

Thanks for the tip, it stopped me from spending my crafting materials prematurely. I have Ultimate Edition off Steam, so I have all DLCs.

One of the things I like about New Vegas is emerging events. No two playthroughs go exactly the same way. Like anticipating an ambush, finding only corpses, and spotting a legion attack team wandering away from the scene.

There are also some oddities that are just funny. Like spotting an enemy who's ready to ambush from an elevated position...armed with only a knife. He has the high ground, at least.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So this tale today was of course, going to Repcon to see what the ghouls are all about. So I got in there, killed a few, got to their place, talked with Jason Bright, yup crazy ghoul cult, and apparently some nightborn people are underneath attacking them so I went down to check on them, ask whats up, and apparently Davison is leading an even crazier antler skull worshipping cult and after a few deaths I just decided to kill all the nightborn with their own clubs and cheese out the healing through rest, then let the one ghoul know about his dead crush. I checked the storage room after all thats done, turns out the stealth boy shipment those nightborn were aiming for? were sent back centuries ago and only five were left anyways, so I feel as if I was expediting what was going to happen anyways since Davison is a crazy violent nightborn guy who probably wouldn't like being told that his quest for buried treasure was all for naught, so killing for him for his sword I feel is okay.

Ironically enough, you CAN get Davidson to accept that the Stealth Boys are gone, and they can leave peacefully. In fact, at least in theory, you can complete the entire game without killing a single thing.

so next I help the cult, which Jason Bright claims is led by visions yet somehow sane enough to realize that Chris, their human, wouldn't survive even through the rockets probably won't work anyways. so I get the parts and a radioactive suit which is good lootin' cause I'll probably need a radioactivity protection at some point, get back and start the launch sequence, I look at them go and hear the ride of the valkyries.....and think: "wow, how majestic. They're probably all going to crash and die somewhere in Arizona. if they're lucky." and I go back to Novac and see Chris sad that he didn't get to die in a rocket while he walks to his hotel room.

It never says, actually. But hey, if your Science skill is high enough, you can put them closer to their target, or if you're upset with them, you can cause them to crash and instead of Blasting Off Again!, two will crash into each other, and the third will crazy-quilt around a bit and then crash into the ground.

interesting case study in three insanities. I like how I point out all the facts to these people and yet none of them listen and I basically just help them destroy themselves with their own forms of crazy. had I been patient enough, I just know I'd probably just end up leading Davison to his own death to, so I'm just speeding up the inevitable and getting a cool bumper sword out of it. I end it with accepting Boone's quest to get revenge for his wife who is Totally Dead. because seriously. Screw The Legion. and of course I got the swift learner perk so, leveling up is just a tiny bit easier now. but yeah, this story of people having some crazy belief that completely clashes with the reality of the situation and you just sitting there watching these people attempt it anyways and crash and burn because of it is a story that Fallout seems to do often and well. It says something about humanity and false idols, but I'm not sure what. All I know is that when I'm done achieving being a cowgirl-mad scientist-seductress....I will take up this bumper sword, and become the anime as well.

It's pretty amusing, yes. Did you figure out who was responsible for Boone's wife's disappearance, and why? And did you learn exactly and precisely how Boone knows for a 100% fact that his wife is definitively dead?

And did you check out the control room in the basement for the Space Suit? One of the best light armors of the core game experience, before you start doing DLC content. Not very Western, I admit, although it can fill the role of Anime or Mad Scientist (although you can find a suit literally named Mad Scientist Scrubs elsewhere...).

[Haruspex_Pariah]

For the longest time I thought that Davison would always attack you when you come back with the news. Then I realize that I always kill Nightkin on the way to the jail where Harland's friend is.

So in my ongoing playthrough, I try to sneak past Harland to get at the computer. He sees me and shoots, so I kill him. Then I just report back to Davison.

And he leaves, peacefully. Yeah...I don't think Bright needs to know about this. Harland wasn't a true believer anyway. Since I was working for Davison at the time, it's not completely wrong to say the Nightkin killed Harland. Makes sense.

Also, btw, nothing in Harland's dialogue says you aren't allowed to go up there. It was self-defense, honest.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

For the longest time I thought that Davison would always attack you when you come back with the news. Then I realize that I always kill Nightkin on the way to the jail where Harland's friend is.

So in my ongoing playthrough, I try to sneak past Harland to get at the computer. He sees me and shoots, so I kill him. Then I just report back to Davison.

And he leaves, peacefully. Yeah...I don't think Bright needs to know about this. Harland wasn't a true believer anyway. Since I was working for Davison at the time, it's not completely wrong to say the Nightkin killed Harland. Makes sense.

Also, btw, nothing in Harland's dialogue says you aren't allowed to go up there. It was self-defense, honest.

You know... I've managed to do it all once. Sneak down, steal the key from the room near the Jailer, examine the dead ghoul, report back to Harland and he leaves, then tell Davidson about what I found on the terminal, and he leaves.

Once. Just to prove to myself that I could.

Typically, I just kill all the nightkin. Because honestly, they're a bigger threat to the Mojave anyway.

[Triaxx]

There's a small number of Nightkin you can kill before he goes hostile.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Running around with no companions is refreshing. I don't know if it's just me, but I find that companions in New Vegas are sometimes more trouble than they're worth.

Basically, in anything other than a straightforward fight. If I need to sneak, snipe, or attack in a specific way, I often have to make them wait far away from where the action is. And don't get me started on exploring indoor spaces where enemies are.

But if I'm wandering in open terrain and a deathclaw runs toward me, I'm glad for the backup. Pros and cons I guess.

[Triaxx]

As long as you stop at version 54.00 of the NVSE Plug in, JazzisParis Companion Command and Control makes life much, much easier working with companions.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

As long as you stop at version 54.00 of the NVSE Plug in, JazzisParis Companion Command and Control makes life much, much easier working with companions.

Thanks, I'll consider it. Frankly, mods make me twitchy, but having manageable companions would be nice too.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Thanks, I'll consider it. Frankly, mods make me twitchy, but having manageable companions would be nice too.

There are a couple I would suggest, even if you want a vanilla experience:

NVSE - Required for a couple of things, but basically an API rather than an actual mod
NVAC - the name is New Vegas Anti-Crash. There's a reason it's the most downloaded mod in existence.
NVSR - New Vegas Stutter-Removal. See previous, only the second-most downloaded mod instead of THE most downloaded mod.
LAA Patch - Large Address Aware patch, so the game can actually use the RAM your machine actually has. This is probably more handy when running a heavy mod load, but is relevant even without it.
PCB Hotkey - Because apparently the game never figured out how to appropriately purge cell buffers, you have to do it manually.

These mods provide no change to the actual gameplay, it just makes the gameplay functional for more than five minutes.

Now, if you want gameplay changes, I can offer those too, but for a 'purist' approach to simply fix Bethesda's kludgy engine, these will help you pretend that they knew what they were doing with the game engine.

[Triaxx]

Personally I prefer Zan's Auto-purge, rather than having to hit a hotkey, but the choice is yours. Though with those installed I've had so few crashes I can't count them while recording and playing NV. So...

[druid91]

So, really thinking about it. A lot of the percieved issues with Fallout 4 not being a good RPG come down to different storytelling styles rather than an objective lack of storytelling.

Mind you, it's still entirely possible to just not like the story FO4 tells but it does tell a fairly coherent story if you're willing to actually follow along with that story.

The story forces a fairly simple role on you. A parent frozen in a cryogenic vault who actually cares about their child and wants to find them. And immediately it seems half the audience is lost.

But is that really such a constraint? Is it really too much to imagine? Yes the initial story. The quest to find Shawn is fairly linear. But it also flows naturally. It makes it so joining the institute is an option, rather than a gaurantee or impossibility. Introduces the major factions of the commonwealth as you progress.

The lack of skills isn't really a point against it, because frankly skillcheck conversation options are and always have been a crutch implemented to try and make skills relevant where they aren't. Sure, you get fewer conversation options based on skills. On the other hand you can build a working robot from scrap. You can build a working weapons and ammo factory. You can reprogram robots in the wild to assist you. These are, at least in my mind 100% more meaningful and integrated character traits that say 'Yes this person is good at science.' than being able to bypass an arbitrary 'credit' check at the new Vegas strip.

Because in the end, that's all the skill checks in New Vegas really were. It was a filter. It didn't generally introduce new content so much as provide a mildly different alternative access to the SAME content.

It's very different from the fallouts of the past mind. But I still think it's a good RPG. Bit out of the blue but eh.

[Triaxx]

The trouble I have is not the story. It strikes no chord with me, but is serviceable enough for it's purpose. It's in the telling that it falls apart. If it were a tabletop the GM would find themselves ridiculed for railroading.

You compared it to New Vegas. And the 'crutch' of Skill Checks. And yet isn't that sort of the point of alternatives in what is basically the ultimate iteration of a choose your own adventure novel? How you get to the end is as important as you getting to the end at all. I mean even Fallout 4 includes options. Why are you at the end? Are you just here to stop them randomly murdering people? Are you here to save the toasters? Should they and all their toasters die as abominations? Or should the surface be abandoned because someone looked at a tiny sample and declared a death sentence on all of it?

Yes, it's less a subtle choice than say being intelligent enough to understand the operating system running a high-tech traffic cop, versus being rich. But even so there are other ways in. You can bypass it entirely, by being such a nice person the NCR let you take the train. Or do a few favors for the King and get a passport in return. Or just buy a fake. And I get what you're saying. If one option works, don't bother with options.

[druid91]

Except that's not my point at all. My point is that skill checks, while serviceable, are in the end a very dead lifeless way to show mastery of a particular skill.

In New Vegas, my skills were more or less a set of keys I would break out at pre-set gateways. I could have all the science skill in the world and unless there was a pre scripted event for me to throw it at...it didn't effect my playthrough.

Meanwhile, in Fallout 4, choices of perks can cause vastly different playstyles that touch on litterally every minute of the game. Two different characters can and will play the game entirely differently from start to finish.

[Rynjin]

Except that's not my point at all. My point is that skill checks, while serviceable, are in the end a very dead lifeless way to show mastery of a particular skill.

In New Vegas, my skills were more or less a set of keys I would break out at pre-set gateways. I could have all the science skill in the world and unless there was a pre scripted event for me to throw it at...it didn't effect my playthrough.

Meanwhile, in Fallout 4, choices of perks can cause vastly different playstyles that touch on litterally every minute of the game. Two different characters can and will play the game entirely differently from start to finish.

No, there really aren't. Almost all of FO4's perks are passive buffs to some stat or damage, because they needed to jam a whole bunch of garbage in to replace skills (which used to have the same effect.

Don't believe me? I can go down the list. I count 18 perks that actually qualify as changing playstsyle. Some of which suck ass (like Ghoulish) or barely qualify (like Sneak or Ninja). The rest just make your weapon of choice deal more damage or have some minor add-on at rank 4 or 5, are crafting Perks (which are just a roundabout way of increasing raw numbers for your weapon of choice), are Settlement perks (which you could sort of count as "playstyle changing" if you want to pay Minecraft instead of FO4), or instead increase COMPANION numbers instead of yours.

Three of these playstyle changing perks are the same thing (Animal Friend, Wasteland Whisperer, and Intimidation), leaving us with about 10 to 12 total interesting perks tat are also worth taking.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So, really thinking about it. A lot of the percieved issues with Fallout 4 not being a good RPG come down to different storytelling styles rather than an objective lack of storytelling.

Mind you, it's still entirely possible to just not like the story FO4 tells but it does tell a fairly coherent story if you're willing to actually follow along with that story.

The story forces a fairly simple role on you. A parent frozen in a cryogenic vault who actually cares about their child and wants to find them. And immediately it seems half the audience is lost.

But is that really such a constraint? Is it really too much to imagine? Yes the initial story. The quest to find Shawn is fairly linear. But it also flows naturally. It makes it so joining the institute is an option, rather than a gaurantee or impossibility. Introduces the major factions of the commonwealth as you progress.

You miss the point. It isn't that a parent wanting to find his son too much to imagine.

The problem, speaking as a father, is the lack of trail of bodies left in your wake as you search unceasingly for said son, to the exclusion of all else.

The problem is that, in an open sandbox world, you are allegedly driven for one goal and one goal only... SHAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNNN!!!!!!1!1ONE

... and then completely ignore this central core dynamic when interacting with everything except Piper. The game expects you to get sidetracked helping out the Minutemen. The game expects you to get sidetracked and explore what the game has to offer. The game offers you NO means of conveying your instinct-level driving NEED to find your son. You can't even MENTION it to anyone before you encounter Piper.

That's the problem. It builds a sense of urgency, when in fact, urgency is the last thing you should be feeling right out of the gate in an open sandbox world. The plot is completely dissonant to the environment and game mechanics.

The lack of skills isn't really a point against it, because frankly skillcheck conversation options are and always have been a crutch implemented to try and make skills relevant where they aren't. Sure, you get fewer conversation options based on skills. On the other hand you can build a working robot from scrap. You can build a working weapons and ammo factory. You can reprogram robots in the wild to assist you. These are, at least in my mind 100% more meaningful and integrated character traits that say 'Yes this person is good at science.' than being able to bypass an arbitrary 'credit' check at the new Vegas strip.

Because in the end, that's all the skill checks in New Vegas really were. It was a filter. It didn't generally introduce new content so much as provide a mildly different alternative access to the SAME content.

It's very different from the fallouts of the past mind. But I still think it's a good RPG. Bit out of the blue but eh.

Again, you're missing the problem.

The Courier can eventually become a scientist, or a diplomat, or whatever else he wants to be. The progress and degree of his interest in these topics is used in the skill system. It shows a measure of progress, and his ability to interact with his world changes based on his skillset.

The Sole Survivor, on the other hand, has precisely four means of interacting with any given NPC: "Sure, I'll go do your fetch quest", "Sarcastically quipping that you'll do the fetch quest", "Try to make a Charisma check to get some caps while agreeing to do your fetch quest", and "Put the quest on indefinite hold for now, but I'll be able to come back at any time to be able to do it, because apparently precisely nothing happens without my direct involvement".

And, with but few exceptions (Silver Shadow, Pickman, and Far Harbor), that's it. It doesn't matter if you have four ranks in Hacking, you will NEVER be able to use that knowledge when, say, talking to ADA. Because THAT would require your character to have more personality than wet cardboard, and we simply can't have that, now can we?

Furthermore, the problem is in the realm of 'core competency'. The Sole Survivor is either a military veteran, or an attorney married to one. But without any way of expanding their skillset, is suddenly capable of building robots. That would be like the protagonist from DOOM suddenly deciding to become a diplomat. The Courier at least has to put measurable effort in building up his ability to build robots before he can build robots, but not the Sole Survivor!

In fact, I would go so far as to say that both DOOM and Wolfenstein have better and more coherent plots than Fallout 4. THAT is how simpleminded and idiotic FO4's excuse for a 'plot' is, that it can be compared negatively to DOOM and Wolfenstein. Because at least in those cases, you have a supersoldier doing what supersoldiers do... kicking arse and chewing bubblegum. He's not a diplomat, he's not a scientist, he's not a detective. He shoots things. That's it. And he's good at it. It's a simple plot, but it at least all hangs together with a dash of verisimilitude.

Fallout 4's 'plot' doesn't even have THAT level of competency.

I'm sorry. I cannot fathom a father who would be capable of letting himself get distracted the way he 'should' in FO4. No, I'm not going to build you a damn settlement, and no, I'm not going to rebuild Sanctuary. I've got a son to find, and this isn't helping that. Maybe after I find him, I can come back and help out. But for now, you guys are on your own.

Contrast with the Courier's plot. He got shot in the head, by someone who obviously knew more than he should have about his mission. Classic revenge plotline. A bit over-used, but fine, I can go roll with it. But the important difference here is that while there is a drive to return the favor, revenge is a dish best served cold. The Courier knows he's outclassed, it's painfully obvious by how easy he got punk'd in the first place. It makes more sense for him to be permitted to be sidetracked, especially if it smells like he might get the gear he needs to level the playing field along the way. It makes sense for the Courier to start studying at least the practicum for many different fields of expertise, because knowledge is power. And the skill system is how that is represented.

Call it a crutch if you like, but the perk system is no less a crutch, and FAR less expressive of personality because you can't have an intelligent and reasonable discussion with someone about a topic within your field of expertise. The solution to saying something is a crutch is to find a better way of implementing the idea of developing skillsets, not removing it entirely.

Unless, yanno, FPS is your thing. Then hey... have fun.

[druid91]

I mean.... do you get sidetracked? I certainly didn't. Neither you or Codsworth know anything about the people of the Commonwealth Wasteland. He suggests that maybe you could find some people over in Concord. You go to concord, find Garvey and Gang, rescue them from raiders and a death claw....

And then immediately get told to find answers in Diamond City. Sure you CAN get sidetracked with Garvey and Gang if you want. But you don't have to. You can very much so immediately just set out for Diamond City to find your son. The next intelligible person you'll talk to is Piper. Literally the.... fifth person you speak to after getting out of the Vault, (Codsworth, Preston, Sturges*, Mama Murphy, Piper). That is very much where the plot is pointing you to go. That you can go off the rails and go do something else if you really want isn't the plots fault.

Is it really the plots fault if you choose to go do something else instead? The Urgency has a clear purpose. To introduce you to the primary conflict of the Commonwealth. It takes you to everywhere major you need to know about. It introduces every major faction with a clear agenda for the main plot. It's all too easy to just... follow the story coherently. Just like in Skyrim.

You escape from a Dragon> Go Tell Balgruuf about said Dragon and get sent for the Dragonstone. > Fight a Dragon and eat it's soul > Go meet the Greybeards.

Alternatively, you can escape from a Dragon, ignore the families friendly request and go off to become a master thief in Riften. The choice is yours to do that, but you can't actually complain that it doesn't present a clear plot just because it allows you to go off the rails of said plot.

[Anteros]

Running around with no companions is refreshing. I don't know if it's just me, but I find that companions in New Vegas are sometimes more trouble than they're worth.

Basically, in anything other than a straightforward fight. If I need to sneak, snipe, or attack in a specific way, I often have to make them wait far away from where the action is. And don't get me started on exploring indoor spaces where enemies are.

But if I'm wandering in open terrain and a deathclaw runs toward me, I'm glad for the backup. Pros and cons I guess.

The good thing about Boone as a companion is that you never need to worry about sneaking or any of that other stuff, because he's already murdered everything in a 10 mile radius before you even knew it was there.

This is also the bad thing about Boone as a companion since he makes the game very boring.

[factotum]

Is it really the plots fault if you choose to go do something else instead? The Urgency has a clear purpose.

But the whole "I must find my son" urgency is at loggerheads with the game style. It's an open world RPG, but if you're playing your character as you should be, you are going to make a bee-line for Diamond City as soon as you're told that's where you need to be looking. Forget exploring the open world, forget even wasting time taking out the bandits at the Corvega plant along the way, because none of that helps with your prime objective.

As I said earlier, if Bethesda wanted it to make sense that a parent frantically chasing the kidnapper of their son and murderer of their spouse would be randomly doing side-quests for people, they'd have made it so you don't find out exactly where to go to find your son literally ten minutes after leaving Sanctuary--they'd have you being forced to do detective work and to help out random folk along the way in the hope they'll tell you something. That's not what they did, and while that's by no means the biggest train wreck in the FO4 plot, it's the first one you encounter and so tends to be quite important.

[druid91]

But the whole "I must find my son" urgency is at loggerheads with the game style. It's an open world RPG, but if you're playing your character as you should be, you are going to make a bee-line for Diamond City as soon as you're told that's where you need to be looking. Forget exploring the open world, forget even wasting time taking out the bandits at the Corvega plant along the way, because none of that helps with your prime objective.

As I said earlier, if Bethesda wanted it to make sense that a parent frantically chasing the kidnapper of their son and murderer of their spouse would be randomly doing side-quests for people, they'd have made it so you don't find out exactly where to go to find your son literally ten minutes after leaving Sanctuary--they'd have you being forced to do detective work and to help out random folk along the way in the hope they'll tell you something. That's not what they did, and while that's by no means the biggest train wreck in the FO4 plot, it's the first one you encounter and so tends to be quite important.

I mean.... you're complaining that it's LESS an RPG because it doesn't immediately encourage you to wander off into the Commonwealth looting everything to your hearts content? There's plenty of time for that later. Just like New Vegas, where the initial revenge plot is wrapped up as you're dropped at ground zero of the real plot. You find your son just in time to really get your teeth into the true conflict.

And from there? Well from there there's an entire wasteland to explore afterwards.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

The good thing about Boone as a companion is that you never need to worry about sneaking or any of that other stuff, because he's already murdered everything in a 10 mile radius before you even knew it was there.

This is also the bad thing about Boone as a companion since he makes the game very boring.

Boone is great if you're committed to hostilities with the Legion from the start. Along the recommended path to Benny he's the second companion you can feasibly recruit, he doesn't ask for much, and he's pretty strong as you mentioned.

I mean I guess you could divert to Raul, though that's a little out of the way. And a fairly high Science check is needed to get out of there peacefully.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Boone is great if you're committed to hostilities with the Legion from the start. Along the recommended path to Benny he's the second companion you can feasibly recruit, he doesn't ask for much, and he's pretty strong as you mentioned.

I mean I guess you could divert to Raul, though that's a little out of the way. And a fairly high Science check is needed to get out of there peacefully.

There's also Cass at the Outpost and ED-E is in Primm (even if he counts as a pet instead of companion), if you have the skill and/or parts. Veronica is at the 188, which isn't much further up the road. There's also the dour Chris also available at NOVAC once you deal with Bright. So there are other options, but yes he is available fairly early in your journey.

[DodgerH2O]

Except that's not my point at all. My point is that skill checks, while serviceable, are in the end a very dead lifeless way to show mastery of a particular skill.

In New Vegas, my skills were more or less a set of keys I would break out at pre-set gateways. I could have all the science skill in the world and unless there was a pre scripted event for me to throw it at...it didn't effect my playthrough.

Meanwhile, in Fallout 4, choices of perks can cause vastly different playstyles that touch on litterally every minute of the game. Two different characters can and will play the game entirely differently from start to finish.

My main issue with the Perk system in FO4 is that it really doesn't change how you play the game. As mentioned by many people, your options are still basically to kill your problems. Kill with rifle, pistol, melee, or explosives, from stealth or not from stealth. There are a few places here and there where a Perk gives you a different option of how to kill stuff (Turn enemy into ally, now that enemy will kill stuff.) There are a couple SPECIAL checks, but those are incredibly rare.

If, for example, having Local Leader gave you the option of acquiring a Settlement by building them sufficient security or resources rather than the traditional "Go here, kill stuff" then I'd agree with you. But no. That's what I miss about the Skill check system. New quest completion options or different dialogue based on how you built your character. I don't care about having skill points, but about having the game world recognize how one character build varies from another.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

There's also Cass at the Outpost and ED-E is in Primm (even if he counts as a pet instead of companion), if you have the skill and/or parts. Veronica is at the 188, which isn't much further up the road. There's also the dour Chris also available at NOVAC once you deal with Bright. So there are other options, but yes he is available fairly early in your journey.

???

Is Chris a recruitable companion? I had no idea.

Yeah, along the recommended path the first companion I run into is EDE, second is Boone, third is Veronica. Raul is sort of out of the way. Bumping into Rex and Arcade isn't hard if you quest around Freeside a bit, and those two lead you to Lily eventually.

Also I don't count Cass as an "early" companion because even though you can meet her before Boone, you need to get to Outer Vegas and do the Crimson Caravan stuff first...I think. I'm pretty sure. So in terms of sequence I'd put her after Veronica. Unless there's a way to bypass the whole caravan buyout plot?

[veti]

Speaking as one who gave up on FO4 out of boredom - I think its plot creates an unbearable level of tension with the game structure.

I'm a parent. I totally get the motivation to find Shawn, and I really wanted to pursue him as singlemindedly as you suggest. But when I had my first encounter with institute synths, it struck me that going up against a whole bunch of these things would be suicide. I needed to prepare.

But prepare how? What level is appropriate for that mission? There is nothing in the game to hint at an answer to that question. There's no one you can even talk to about it.

The plot would be fine in a more railroaded game, like, say, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Pillars of Eternity. In those games you face each challenge at its properly scripted time, and you know you should be able to cope by then.

New Vegas is simultaneously more railroaded and better signposted. Plenty of people will talk to you about fighting the legion, and there are lots of opportunities to practice before the big show. Morrowind manages the same feat without anything like the same level of railroading, proving that it is perfectly possible to combine freedom with guidance.

FO4 gives you - neither freedom nor guidance.

[snowblizz]

I mean.... do you get sidetracked?

I did. I also forgot there was a main questline and was rather surprised when I finally bothered to go check it out that it locked other developments behind it.

Now I actually love FO4, ironically I've not finished (I should be going out into the glowing sea but they said I can't survive there so obviously gonna be maxxing things out first). But there story does have issues IMO.

I get to Diamond City by essentially circling around the map. Get dragged into the quests there, figure OK I'll that investigating I was supposed to do, and promptly am told I need a dog for this job. Err... I've been running around with my new girlfriend for ages now (don't judge me! my wife is dead.. or something). But don't worry we will teleport your dog here so you can do this quest that demands a tracker dog, even though technically you don't know *where* on the map said dog was left.

While generally I don't have a problem with the story that just tore me right out of everything with a great big "HEY YOU, YOU THE GUY PLAYING A GAME WITH ONLY ONE PATH FORWARDS; HAVE THIS DOG DAMMIT WE SCRIPTED HIM HERE, IDIOT".

I have committed the awful sin of not comign straight here with the 1st companion the game gave me. Follow the script idjut! I even tore around that Fort Whatever aplce and couldn't figure out why there was so much hardlocked areas. Spent more time banging my head against that problem than following the main quest.

Yea I'd like to think they could have done it another way. Give multiple paths and clues to follow up to some interesting points on map.

[factotum]

While generally I don't have a problem with the story that just tore me right out of everything with a great big "HEY YOU, YOU THE GUY PLAYING A GAME WITH ONLY ONE PATH FORWARDS; HAVE THIS DOG DAMMIT WE SCRIPTED HIM HERE, IDIOT".

One of these days I'm going to have to see what happens if you circle around the Red Rocket at Sanctuary and thus avoid Dogmeat entirely, then go and do that quest. Will Bethesda have thought of that eventuality, or will the game just give you the dog anyway?

[Grim Portent]

One of these days I'm going to have to see what happens if you circle around the Red Rocket at Sanctuary and thus avoid Dogmeat entirely, then go and do that quest. Will Bethesda have thought of that eventuality, or will the game just give you the dog anyway?

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They just give him to you anyway. Nick mentions he has an old buddy who's helped him track people before, whistles and dogmeat comes running up to Kellog's place. That dog has gotten around, but then FO4 seems to imply he's something unusual.

[Calemyr]

I'm a pretty big fan of the all three of the shooter Fallouts. Each one has its own strengths and weaknesses. The tactical ones hid an intriguing story under fairly boring gameplay so I never really enjoyed them. You can only shoot a raider in the groin so many times before it stops being funny.

The only one I don't really get sidetracked on (at least until Benny is dealt with) is New Vegas. They did a good job at creating a solid driving motivation, there. And afterwards it becomes an awkward game of figuring out what to do next in a four-way tug of war for the Mojave, if you even care about that. This gives you time to do your side-tracking pretty guilt free.

The other two do have breakpoints in the flow of the plot to allow you to explore, but I rarely wait for them. Largely because I tend to roleplay my character a bit too much, and play guys. The Lone Wanderer is worried about his dad, yes, but he's caught up in the freedom and openness of the Capital Wasteland, so he easily gets carried away with exploring. The Sole Survivor, on the other hand, I tend to focus on their status as a veteran, leaving him a guy trained to use violence to solve problems yet wanting to do something positive with what's left of his life. Shaun and Nora are good overall motivations, but he's left pretty aimless most of the time and the Minutemen give him a direction to move if nothing else. Once he has a lead, however, he leaves a trail of destruction in his wake until the trail gets cold again.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I've never used hollow points before today. I understand the math, but I couldn't be bothered to research DT for every enemy I run into.

But this time I took Living Anatomy, which tells me the DT of my current target. 75% damage bonus with no drawbacks? Yes please.

Also the varmint rifle is beginning to grow on me. Normally I ditch it ASAP for a bigger gun, but after sniping a bunch of enemies and diligently searching for its weapon mods I've gotten attached.

Even if I do upgrade to a .308 or 45-70 gun eventually, varmint rifle's pretty useful for picking off trash mobs.