My Hero Academia 2: I will endeavor to become a thread you can be proud of

[Dragonus45]

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I read it more as him refusing out of spite for this guy he doesn't like than for loyalty towards his clients.

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I definitely see a bit of both. If this guy had approached him right, greased the right palms, been respectful, then they might have been able to do some business. But now the guy has gone ahead and beaten the crap out of him while also demanding he betray paying customers. I imagine they will be working him over for a good long while.

[Ramza00]

I'm always curious what kind of ethics a man can have who works with people with the express goal to murder people, including students. Is it also his dream to revive the AfO world order or...? I mean, if he's just in for the money, I could get it. But I don't think he has some twisted sense of right and wrong like Stain or Shigurashi. Then again, we hardly know him, so what do I know...

Giran as a "broker" has to have both personal ethics, but also a philosophical viewpoint on society in order to be a "broker" who thrives. He has to know when to take risk and when not to, and thus understand his own viewpoints, the viewpoints of various people and clients, but also what is good for the general community and when one person is a risk that can harm the "greater good / greater community."

Giran is playing with fire, and the only way to play with fire is to understand the nature of fire and how to control and shape it.

So of course Giran has some form of ethics or code. Think of him as that Frasier Character, Bebe Glazer, Frasier's Agent. Just like Bebe he is a "scoundrel", but to succeed at the business you need to be kind of a scoundrel.

Remember Giran's business is "smuggling" and "information." To be a good smuggler you have to be trustworthy even though the business you are in means you skirt many rules that the authorities put into place.

[Spacewolf]

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I get the feeling the CEO is trying to send a message to anyone else thinking of allying with the LoV that while they might have worked over an already beaten Yakuza they're still small fish compared to Destros legacy.

There might already be bad blood between Destros followers and AfOs that mean they just don't consider talking an option.

[Kato]

Not to get too deep into the matter but in my head people in Giran's field care to make money and sell to the highest bidder. He could profit off the league, so he did. Of course even when dealing with villains you need some integrity or your clients won't trust you.
But that is not the same as getting beaten up and possibly murdered. He can't do business with the league if he is dead. And those people look plenty serious to me. So if I was him, I'd only keep my mouth shut if I really believed in their cause. Or really really wanted to piss off the destros. But risking death...
Of course, as someone said, maybe they didn't ask nicely to begin with. Because they hate the league. For reasons. Yeah, I'd really like to learn what that is about.

[Ramza00]

Not to get too deep into the matter but in my head people in Giran's field care to make money and sell to the highest bidder. He could profit off the league, so he did. Of course even when dealing with villains you need some integrity or your clients won't trust you.
But that is not the same as getting beaten up and possibly murdered. He can't do business with the league if he is dead. And those people look plenty serious to me. So if I was him, I'd only keep my mouth shut if I really believed in their cause. Or really really wanted to piss off the destros. But risking death...
Of course, as someone said, maybe they didn't ask nicely to begin with. Because they hate the league. For reasons. Yeah, I'd really like to learn what that is about.

It is a Gamble what Giran doing that different people will do different things, even people in the same line of work. It has to do with the pesonality / temperament of the person. What does this person most fear / finds unbearable.

Some people will choose death over pain, and there are different types of pain. Some people find the "pain of being trapped" or "be put in a bad situation where they are given a Sophie / False choice" to be the unbearable one, while other people will gladly worry about that stuff later and stop the pain and torture that Giran is currently experiencing.

I have a chronic pain disorder that is caused by autoimmune issues where my body fights my body and makes things broken when it thinks it needs to repair things that are broken but nothing is actually broken. It is a condition I have had since I was 17, and it is not a continuous condition where there are times it "flairs up" vs "remains mostly dormant but it is still there."

Why am I bringing this up? Well this chronic pain condition has made me aware that at different times of my life how I feel about pain and what are my greatest fears is not a universal constant since childhood. My life experiences makes me appreciate that other people can have different perspectives and responses even if exposed to the same triggers. It has made me appreciate subjectivity and there is no always right answer given a situation.

Giran knows himself well enough. Being a rat means he will have a forever battle with his own being and how he sees himself and his self image, but it will also modify his relationships and people will no longer see him the same and there will always be an air of distrust. Giran rather choose a life of certainty even if it leads to an early death, over a life of uncertainty and continuous pain. Think of what the mob does to Rats, even if it is not "this specific Mob's Family you ratted on." They are killed / tortured on-site to be made an example of.

Giran talking back may get him killed, but it also may cause the destros to change their tactics and rethink what they are doing involving him. It may cause the destros to put him into a cell and figure out if he has use at a later point for getting information from him via torture / force is not going to work.

It is a gamble at its core, the events involving Giran.

[Drascin]

In that line of work, if you aren't considered absolutely trustworthy you won't last a week, is the thing. If the mob thinks anyone with a lead pipe can get you to spill on your dealings with them, they will kill you immediately after your deal is closed rather than risk you talking. So what Destro Jr here is telling Giran is basically "I can kill you now, or I can kill you later, just indirectly", and at that point, might as well spit in his face.

I'm pretty sure he's going to do some kind of mindcontrol or something here, though. That end of chapter reads to me like Giran is going to end up cooperating somehow, and not of his own volition.

[Kato]

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Cute look inside whatshisface' mind. I was wondering why he stuk with the people his idol said no to but I guess he doesn't know.

And goddammit, if this stupid theory suggesting there being only one physician in Japan turns out to be true I'll be annoyed...

[John Cribati]

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We have seen at least two other physicians/medical professionals (Recovery Girl, dude at the hospital after Muscular, maybe a different dude at a different hospital after Stain IIRC). The idea that the one that's connected to Midoriya might be connected to All for One would be a coincidence, but not one that would break the story. Especially if it's justified by All for One keeping an eye on Izuku for..
reasons.

[GloatingSwine]

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We have seen at least two other physicians/medical professionals (Recovery Girl, dude at the hospital after Muscular, maybe a different dude at a different hospital after Stain IIRC). The idea that the one that's connected to Midoriya might be connected to All for One would be a coincidence, but not one that would break the story. Especially if it's justified by All for One keeping an eye on Izuku for..
reasons.

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I think coincidence is more likely.

Consider the following. The physician who examined Midoriya as he would ordinarily be getting his quirk might not be a general practitioner. He might be a paediatric specialist in the development and expression of quirks. That's a specialisation that would sensibly exist in the world of MHA and also be a useful contact for a collector of quirks like All for One.

He's not any old physician, he's the one specifically placed so as to be maximally useful to AfO, letting him know about promising quirks early on.

[lord_khaine]

What is it people are taking as evidence of those two doctors being the same?
So far i cant see anything that would hint at it.

[GloatingSwine]

What is it people are taking as evidence of those two doctors being the same?
So far i cant see anything that would hint at it.

In the extras of volume 7 there's a hint about why the winged Noumu picked up Deku specifically, with a picture of Bakugou's minion with wings from childhood under it. The hint being that he was made into that Noumu.

The doctor who diagnosed Deku as quirkless is listed as his grandfather in his character profile.

The doctor that AfO is seen speaking to looks almost identical.

[Dragonus45]

The hint being that he was made into that Noumu.

You know, I never can seem to get desisitized to just how horrific and terrifying some of the stuff in this series is. Like the Nomu, or the people turned into them. Or the instant villains in Vigilantes that are how warped for life into forms that are kind of beyond tha pale even for a setting that otherwise has worked to adapt itself to a multitude of different kinds of humanity.

[Ramza00]

What is it people are taking as evidence of those two doctors being the same?
So far i cant see anything that would hint at it.

Repost my post #1049 (located on page 35 when we were having this discussion earlier. Quick link to that discussion page number

Including my specific post that summarizes the arguments for ease of use.

Ramza I need you to take a step back and reorder what you said slightly more coherently since I'm sorry WHAT. The...random doctor Deku went to as a kid is implied to be the doctor working with All For One? How so?

Why you make me do work LaZodiac

Spoiler: For events from Manga Chapter 1 to 59 and a databook that covers events 1 to 88

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Things we know for sure.
1) The doctor who diagnosis Deku as quirkless is the grandfather of Deku's friend who has wings. We know this from the Japanese and French Databook which has not been translated to English. Links to that image.


We also know #2)
2) It is stated that the winged friend of Deku is related to the winged Nobu in some way, but we do not know the nature of the connection for it was a non narrative tidbit from Volume 7. The author aka word of god, Kohei Horikoshi, states there is a connection between these two but he does not elaborate the connection.


Speculation

related to #2
S2a) Maybe that is the winged friend Tsubasa quirk in the Nobu, or maybe it is Tsubasa as the template and other quirks are added on top of him. We do not know the identity of this Nobu but we do know the identity of the first Nobu in the USJ incident.
S2b) Some people speculated it has to be Tsubasa (even though this is speculation) and their reasoning is the winged Nobu sought out Deku out of all those people for he had a connection to Deku in the back of his mind. Then after the winged Nobu grabs Deku, Hero Killer Stained escapes and stabs the Nobu before collapsing and saying Only All Might is Worthy. This is the charismatic scene that was video taped and made Hero Killer Stain famous.

#3 is pure speculation and we do not know things.

S3) In Vol 7 Chapter 59 we learn more about the back story of All for One and One for All. We also see All for One in a hospital bed and another person is with him. People speculate this is the same doctor in chapter 1 for they look alike.





The anime episode is Season 2 Episode 20 (Episode 33 overall) and the scene takes place after the credits but before the next episode takes place. The doctor who helps All for One is less visibile than he is in the manga / more shrouded in shadows. But also the two characters use the same voice actor for the doctor who diagnosed Deku in Episode 1.

Extreme Speculation

S4) So if we take the doctor that diagnosed Deku in Episode 1 / Manga 1 to be the same doctor who is helping All for One (I am skeptical so I do not grant #S3, but lets pretend we do for the sake of arguement) why is he in the story if there is a Chekov reason? S4 goes in dozens of ways like perhaps Deku had a quirk and it was stolen by the doctor, or blah blah blah notice I put this in extreme speculation category.

Another argument that is far more minimalistic is that the Doctor that diagnosed Deku and the Doctor with All for One are the same. But it would make sense for All for One to employ at least 1 of these doctors and possibly more. Get these pediatric doctors to diagnose kids with quirks (and also the quirkless) and keep the eye on these individuals in order to better grab cool quirks for All for One. Aka prey on the weak not the superheroes. You can do this with a pediatric doctor, or with the countries national registry. This will make sense for any form of "mastermind type villain" which All for One is implied to be in Manga Chapter 59 prior to him losing to his grip of power in the past.

And if one of these doctors want to "make nomus" / Artificial Humans than do that with said doctor. Aka you do not need to have Deku be a person with a former quirk that was stolen, he can still be a "nobody" but some people see these connections and it gives them the FREEDOM to make lots of theories even if the theories are against the theme / narrative style of the story.

My point with number 4 is my subjective opinion is the minimalist argument but I am open to the arguments I see as subjectively absurd. For I think they contradict the narrative style of the story the author is writting. Aka No Meaning, Only Lore to paraphrase Foldable Human / The Dog Picture (never take only throw) / and Star Trek.

[lord_khaine]

Thank you for the summary.
It was mostly because people acted like if there had been some new evidence added.
That moves it from theory to fact.

But yes it does look like there is a bit of support for the theory.
I had missed the bit about their voice actors being the same.

[LaZodiac]

This chapter was really fun honestly.

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I like Spinner. I like the idea that even now, in this universe, people are racist against people without humanoid body types. I like that our...villiains, basically just murdered and robbed a cult of racists.

And I like how really, really human all the villains are. Even Giganto Macia is just...mostly sad that Shigaraki is a wimp?

[John Cribati]

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I wonder how far Mutation-type discrimination goes. Shoji and Tsu might get some stares, but what about Mina or Bubble Girl, who for the most part are just oddly colored? How do they treat the "human body but just has a weird head" gang?

[LaZodiac]

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I wonder how far Mutation-type discrimination goes. Shoji and Tsu might get some stares, but what about Mina or Bubble Girl, who for the most part are just oddly colored? How do they treat the "human body but just has a weird head" gang?

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Ashido's got the horns and demon eyes as well, don't forget that.

As for people like the cat and chief of police who are just people with photorealistic animal heads...I mean they're basically furries so I feel like the world will accept them more on the outset, because they don't look MONSTEROUS, just weird.

[Traab]

Random question, invisi girl has shown she can bend light around herself to act like a flash to blind people, is she able to become visible? Has it ever been addressed?

[LaZodiac]

Random question, invisi girl has shown she can bend light around herself to act like a flash to blind people, is she able to become visible? Has it ever been addressed?

It's not been shown if she can become visible or not. I'm guessing NOT, personally, since she hasn't yet, but she could potentially provide like, an outline of herself in light, possibly, through weak refractions.

[Kato]

I don't know how seriously we should discuss murdering a racist cult but... I'm not sure if them being broke, too, is a joke or a sign of them being unsuccessful.

That said, I'm more surprised this kind of xenophobia hasn't been brought up earlier. Whether it's directed at actually monstrous or just weird people, I think we all know these people would have a platform in this world.

[Dragonus45]

I don't know how seriously we should discuss murdering a racist cult but... I'm not sure if them being broke, too, is a joke or a sign of them being unsuccessful.

That said, I'm more surprised this kind of xenophobia hasn't been brought up earlier. Whether it's directed at actually monstrous or just weird people, I think we all know these people would have a platform in this world.

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I get the feeling they were likely a real political force during the upheaval that quirks brought on, but at this point it looks like more people we have seen are some offshoot variety of humanity then straightforward every day human themselves. I’m assuming that the total lack of a fight these guys put up is because they are quirkless on top of that so my guess is that they are mostly powerless and just scraping by with what numbers they had. Pulling in children of existing members to sustain themselves and the occasional random convert and maintaining a potentially disproportionate voice thanks to the wonders of the internet but otherwise on the way out. Hence being basically broke.

[John Cribati]

That said, I'm more surprised this kind of xenophobia hasn't been brought up earlier. Whether it's directed at actually monstrous or just weird people, I think we all know these people would have a platform in this world.

To be fair, this is taking place in the backwater of Japan. Those parts tend to be more set in their ways. Also I'm pretty sure at the start of things society was more immediately concerned with staying safe from people with dangerous powers. Once those regulation laws were hammered out and society more or less agreed to them, then people had the free time to be racist (or whatever) again.

[Ramza00]

Edit: I screwed up this reply and do not have the backup.

[Ramza00]

New chapters of MHA and Vigilantes

My Hero Academia: Vigilantes, Chapter 50 released on 03/22/19
Shonen Jump and Viz.com free most recent comic viewer.

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Now comic 221 is not out on Viz.com site (Viz.com will get it on Sunday 3/24)

But I have a question to ask since 221 is out on the pirate sites.

Spoiler: Includes stuff from 221

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I am getting the sense this League of Villains vs Gigantomachia event that has been occurring since 219 took place prior to the Highend vs Endeavor and Hawks fight. If so this is not sequential time even if we did not get a dreaming / flashback.

I think non sequential time with the telling of the story is the only way to make sense of Dabi knowing Ujiko's name on the spot, and since we learn in 221 Daruma Ujiko is an pseudonym meant to protect the doctor's identity.

(I am also thinking about the name Daruma Ujiko name but my thoughts are not finished but I think it ties back to Deku not event wise but on a thematic level. Need more research / reading / thinking before I share. I think I will be ready for sharing on Sunday when Viz.com has 221 out and ready.)

[GloatingSwine]

Spoiler: Includes stuff from 221

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I am getting the sense this League of Villains vs Gigantomachia event that has been occurring since 219 took place prior to the Highend vs Endeavor and Hawks fight. If so this is not sequential time even if we did not get a dreaming / flashback.

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Yes. In issue 219 it explicitly says it's about a month and a half ago, before the hero billboard chart announcements. (That's issue 184, for those counting)


As for the name. A Daruma doll is a common Japanese custom that represents an ambition or resolution (you fill in one eye to represent making the resolution then the other when you complete it. They're traditionally burned on bonfires at new years as well).

Ujiko is a shinto term that roughly translates to the parishioners of a specific shrine.

So the latter half represents the doctor's relationship to All for One and the former the (incomplete) ambitions of AfO and the doctor.

[Ramza00]

The 221 conservation between GloatingSwine and Ramza00

Spoiler: 221 stuff

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Yes. In issue 219 it explicitly says it's about a month and a half ago, before the hero billboard chart announcements. (That's issue 184, for those counting)

Thank you, for I missed that. I saw that but I did not make any connections with it and I forgot it. But thanks for jogging my memory.

As for the name. A Daruma doll is a common Japanese custom that represents an ambition or resolution (you fill in one eye to represent making the resolution then the other when you complete it. They're traditionally burned on bonfires at new years as well).

Ujiko is a shinto term that roughly translates to the parishioners of a specific shrine.

I agree with this, but I think there are more significance to the name on a thematic level (I will elaborate on Sunday). But yes I think it is supposed to be a reference to Daruma Doll and not the Buddhist Monk who brought Buddhism from India to China. But maybe I am wrong.

So the latter half represents the doctor's relationship to All for One and the former the (incomplete) ambitions of AfO and the doctor.

This is something I am less sure about. Not because you are wrong as in incorrect, but I can think of other theories and there is no way to prove a theory correct or right here. It may be as you say or it may be something else. We just have to wait till it unfolds for there is no way "to know" and that is part of the fun. To see how it unfolds.

And while talking I just realized another thematic connection with Daruma.

[Ramza00]

My Hero Academia Chapter 221 released on 03/24/19
Shonen Jump and Viz.com free most recent comic viewer.

(Sidenote, seperate from MHA. The last 48 hours for me personally have been exhausting, maybe I will find time and restorative energy in order to write. I hope everyone else is doing fine though!)

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

So that theory is 100% confirmed now huh. Daruma has the exact same glasses. It's canon.

Damn, that's ****ed up. He also has the goop teleport quirk too, it seems!

Also new Vigilantes, wherein we see that...even though he's better, Captain Celebrity is still a putz. He's a GOOD putz though!!! I hope he survives this bombardment of explosives.

[Kato]

So that theory is 100% confirmed now huh. Daruma has the exact same glasses. It's canon.

Yes, nobody could ever own identical glasses! Also, his beard os much fuzzier... Oh who am I kidding, it's probably true and I just hope we get a remotely better explanation than 'there are only two people working in that field' or so.

Spoiler: 222

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Not much to say... I'm now hoping AfO gad some secret mind control quirk and messed with Shiguraki or something... Seriously, why did nobody take care of him again?

And I guess I'm super forgetful but whom is totally-not-Todoroki talking about?

Vigilantes is fine as always but that last panel on the new chapter is weirdly comedic for the situation. Also, I sure hope the other heroes keep relaxing after hearing multiple explosions.

[LaZodiac]

Yes, nobody could ever own identical glasses! Also, his beard os much fuzzier... Oh who am I kidding, it's probably true and I just hope we get a remotely better explanation than 'there are only two people working in that field' or so.

Spoiler: 222

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Not much to say... I'm now hoping AfO gad some secret mind control quirk and messed with Shiguraki or something... Seriously, why did nobody take care of him again?

And I guess I'm super forgetful but whom is totally-not-Todoroki talking about?

Vigilantes is fine as always but that last panel on the new chapter is weirdly comedic for the situation. Also, I sure hope the other heroes keep relaxing after hearing multiple explosions.

I mean, the reason why no one helped Shigaraki is because...these things happen. His family was decently large, but intentionally kept hidden so as not to be connected to Shimura Nana. Given the family was also abusive, the kids likely didn't have any contact with much people.

It's a dark ****ing thing, but sometimes this is just overlooked. No one misses a single family in a single city sometimes. And I mean A4O was absolutely monitoring the family waiting for this moment to swoop in, so I doubt they had time to find him in this state of despair.

He's talkin' about HAWKS. Remember, flashback. The Doctor also burnt the **** out of Dabi for saying High Grade "matches his aesthetic". That ruled.

Also yeah no we've seen...the Doctor in both the past and the current day now, without shadows, and he just IS the quirk specialist. That's just confirmed now.