Fort Triumph - Fantasy XCOM meets OotS

[lord_khaine]

I like these

Probably hard to balance though - Pillars of Eternity did the injury thing, and it was meaningless because you could always just heal it up
Darkest Dungeon also did the negative traits thing - and it was also almost meaningless because it was too expensive to treat (and too much effort to pick your heroes based on injuries), or keep track of. Though that was with a very large roster of characters
Maybe it can be tweaked to be balanced, though I suspect it'll be hard to keep it in a good place inbetween "too harsh" and "meaningless"

Then Steal borrow from both sources?
Afflictions cant be healed up. But there either is a chance after each mission that a affliction will go away. Or maybe it will last for x missions. Perhaps afflictions are divided between sewere and minor, depending on how swiftly someone aids the downed hero.

Perhaps sewere afflictions are permanent and wont heal on their own.
If your Barbarian breaks a leg, then you can either take 2? 3? missions with a movement speed penalty. Or leave him with a healer for a mission. Or pay a cleric a lot to use healing magic.

But if he instead lost an eye then your a little more screwed. Or you would be. If the Worldshapers would not love to sell you a crystal eye thats 90% likely to not expose your poor hero to the horrors hiding in fabric of reality. Observing with their unblinking eyes.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So, first episode of the actual campaign up. Since there's been two revisions since my last episode, there's been a few really awesome changes, including a lot better knowledge of where things fall and where you are going to get hit with overwatches. This is awesome and cool and I like it.

Still trying to figure out how the overworld works, so I'll probably cover that a bit more in depth in the next episode.

[Maryring]

I reinstalled the game after hearing about the updated intro, and I want to give it a thumbs up. It's a lot better now. Sure, it's still hard. But it's not too hard, and for the most part it serves as an introduction to the game. One thing. During the boss fight, I noticed that at some point my fireball spell had become a CreateRock spell and misunderstand me correctly. Creating cover is really nifty and a very useful skill for the wizard to have. But it's not what I want to happen when I'm trying to nuke a group of enemies.

Regarding the recent ideas presented I'm... torn. Honestly, a guild master ish role would be pretty nifty. You could have some base building elements ala HOMM/XCOM to spend your magic on, because as currently is Magic seems to be either feast or famine since it's spent on recruiting new folks and on potions. At the same time the writing during the prologue did make me highly invested in the Mage character. Ah, but I suppose this could just be fixed by making her the guildmaster in the main campaign.

I do like the idea of using afflictions to keep a unit out of commission for X time. I don't think you should make them permanent though, because if you have a hero with a permanent halved movement speed for example she might as well be dead for all I can use her. If she has to stay out for a couple days, then that's a suitable incentive to not get people dropped, without feeling like a high level hero getting dropped means an end since you have to grind up another character. This, by the way, is one of the biggest problems with Darkest Dungeons, since I see you used that as an example. If a hero in Darkest Dungeons die, you're forced to spend several missions slowly grinding them up to max level again, simply because levels are so impactful. You've done a decent job in making sure that even a novice mage is useful... but I do not feel the same for the Paladin, Barbarian and Ranger.

For the Ranger, the problem is that her physics level 1 skill is the grappling arrow. Which I have thus far never used. Pulling an enemy closer doesn't feel useful when I could've just as well just killed it with an arrow instead.

The Paladin and Barbarian meanwhile require you to get really close in order to kick something. Meaning not only are they probably destroying their own cover, but they could again usually get close enough to just kill whomever they're targetting. It's certainly a lot more useful than the grappling arrow, since at least kicking a box or something into an enemy leaves them stunned, but the grappling arrow feels like it has way too few situations to make use of it. I think Rangers should start with smokebomb or rain instead, as those are more generally useful.

Also, while other characters seem to gain a lot of strength and options as they progress the Paladin feels... weak. It's role seems to be focused on being a defensive tank that draws fire from others, but the role has neither the healing nor the defense to make good use of it. Consider giving it either some damage resistance, passive cover effects, regeneration, or have her heal skill be stronger on herself. Because right now she oesn't feel like she's got any reason for being beyond her blinding bolt.

As for the writing, I'll take a look at it later. It seems like a fun challenge, but I'm a bit tapped out at the moment to offer more thoughts.

[lord_khaine]

I do like the idea of using afflictions to keep a unit out of commission for X time. I don't think you should make them permanent though, because if you have a hero with a permanent halved movement speed for example she might as well be dead for all I can use her. If she has to stay out for a couple days, then that's a suitable incentive to not get people dropped, without feeling like a high level hero getting dropped means an end since you have to grind up another character. This, by the way, is one of the biggest problems with Darkest Dungeons, since I see you used that as an example. If a hero in Darkest Dungeons die, you're forced to spend several missions slowly grinding them up to max level again, simply because levels are so impactful. You've done a decent job in making sure that even a novice mage is useful... but I do not feel the same for the Paladin, Barbarian and Ranger.

With permanent it was also just meant not going away on its own. Instead needing some investment besides time to get rid off.
Either in the shape of magical healing. Or else in forged replacement bodyparts from the magical college.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

For the Ranger, the problem is that her physics level 1 skill is the grappling arrow. Which I have thus far never used. Pulling an enemy closer doesn't feel useful when I could've just as well just killed it with an arrow instead.

I've found a few uses for it. Specifically, pulling something behind a target in cover into it. Or pulling one enemy into another, that is always fun. Because while the one behind cover is hard to hit... the one behind the one in cover isn't, so you're getting a twofer.

The Paladin and Barbarian meanwhile require you to get really close in order to kick something. Meaning not only are they probably destroying their own cover, but they could again usually get close enough to just kill whomever they're targetting. It's certainly a lot more useful than the grappling arrow, since at least kicking a box or something into an enemy leaves them stunned, but the grappling arrow feels like it has way too few situations to make use of it. I think Rangers should start with smokebomb or rain instead, as those are more generally useful.

Also, while other characters seem to gain a lot of strength and options as they progress the Paladin feels... weak. It's role seems to be focused on being a defensive tank that draws fire from others, but the role has neither the healing nor the defense to make good use of it. Consider giving it either some damage resistance, passive cover effects, regeneration, or have her heal skill be stronger on herself. Because right now she oesn't feel like she's got any reason for being beyond her blinding bolt.

Paladin is pretty awesome, in my opinion. He does get a heal, it's a heal all allies nearby on killing an enemy. Sure, it's a one point heal, but it's better than nothing. Also, he gets an accuracy buff aura that is completely passive, which is just silly good.

The problem is the current RNG roulette method of obtaining skills, which I am not a fan of.

[NeoVid]

Played through the updated prologue, and introducing the overworld mechanics during the intro improved it a lot. Honestly, the game's improving so fast it doesn't feel like a production from a small, non-professional dev team, which is impressive.

My Wizard also got hit with that bug of Fireball being replaced with another spell partway through. Not a pleasant surprise when I tried burning a spawn of enemies in the catacombs...

[Maryring]

I've found a few uses for it. Specifically, pulling something behind a target in cover into it. Or pulling one enemy into another, that is always fun. Because while the one behind cover is hard to hit... the one behind the one in cover isn't, so you're getting a twofer.

Paladin is pretty awesome, in my opinion. He does get a heal, it's a heal all allies nearby on killing an enemy. Sure, it's a one point heal, but it's better than nothing. Also, he gets an accuracy buff aura that is completely passive, which is just silly good.

The problem is the current RNG roulette method of obtaining skills, which I am not a fan of.

The first instance again asks me to target an enemy with a skill that, if I had used a regular attack, probably would've just killed it anyway. Whirlwind targets something immobile and so almost always hits, but the grappling arrow is about as accurate as the regular shot since it lacks the immobile target bonus. And you can't get around the low accuracy by flanking, because at that point they're no longer being pulled into the environment. The latter has yet to happen in my game, as the enemies are generally good about not placing one another one rook move away from one another.

And one strong skill does not a strong unit make. The heal is weak. It is only when the paladin makes a kill, which runs counter to the general design around buffing, debuffing and generally supporting. And for most fights it triggers once or twice. Which isn't an extra hit from even a goblin archer. Sure, only the last hit point matter. But the chances of it being the last hit point are very slim. Or in other words... most of the time it's not "better than nothing" because it amounts to nothing. I'd prefer it be an active skill that can be used X times per fight, healing for more on a single target. Or rework it and make the Paladin have a stronger identity as a tank that draws damae to herself.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The first instance again asks me to target an enemy with a skill that, if I had used a regular attack, probably would've just killed it anyway. Whirlwind targets something immobile and so almost always hits, but the grappling arrow is about as accurate as the regular shot since it lacks the immobile target bonus. And you can't get around the low accuracy by flanking, because at that point they're no longer being pulled into the environment. The latter has yet to happen in my game, as the enemies are generally good about not placing one another one rook move away from one another.

You can target immobile objects with grapnel arrow as well. Also, stunning two or more characters instead of killing one is absolutely worth it, especially if the other one is an archer in overwatch (because damage negates overwatch).

And one strong skill does not a strong unit make. The heal is weak. It is only when the paladin makes a kill, which runs counter to the general design around buffing, debuffing and generally supporting. And for most fights it triggers once or twice. Which isn't an extra hit from even a goblin archer. Sure, only the last hit point matter. But the chances of it being the last hit point are very slim. Or in other words... most of the time it's not "better than nothing" because it amounts to nothing. I'd prefer it be an active skill that can be used X times per fight, healing for more on a single target. Or rework it and make the Paladin have a stronger identity as a tank that draws damae to herself.

I think you and I have a fundamental disagreement about the Paladin's role. Every character's job is 'kill something'. If it cannot do that, it doesn't deserve to be in play. The secondary role is general support, something the Paladin does fantastically well.

* You completely ignored the skill which gives all enemies nearby a passive bonus to-hit against. For this alone, and no other reason, I would consider the class to be mandatory. This can bring a 60% shot up to an 80% if the Paladin is close enough.

* The 'hit a target and heal' is a *PARTY HEAL*, not an individual heal, which is FAR more valuable. Sure, it's only one point, but as you said, only the last point counts. And at least in my playthrough so far, the Paladin has been very high in the kill count. So it tends to proc regularly. Enough so that it is absolutely worth.

* Taunt can draw attacks, however this can actually be a bad thing, because while the Paladin does have a lot more hit points than your ranged characters, no one can handle getting focus-fired. Unless you are spending regularly on potions for him, Taunt seems more of a trap than anything else. Granted, right now there's not a whole lot else to spend the currency on in the game, so there's no reason not to, but still.

Paladin is probably THE strongest character in the game. He can take multiple hits (especially if he is braced) and still going. He's got passive abilities that are always on that are always awesome. He's your front-line specialist, who can also bash heads in with the best of them.

If there is any weak character, it's the Barbarian.

[Knaight]

I've found a few uses for it. Specifically, pulling something behind a target in cover into it. Or pulling one enemy into another, that is always fun. Because while the one behind cover is hard to hit... the one behind the one in cover isn't, so you're getting a twofer.

I've got a lot of mileage out of it, between ranged stunning and drowning fools, particularly in the short campaign. There's also one treasure chest on an island on a map which can basically only be reached by it unless you want to really futz around for a while. I'd seriously consider it as a candidate for best forced movement technique, not least because it's one of relatively few that is both reliably predictable and which doesn't tend to leave you out in the middle of nowhere.

[Maryring]

Are you for real? You complain that I didn't acknowledge your accuracy boost (which has the same problem as the heal, requiring close proximity to the paladin, which leaves the squishy ranger and mage exposed. And neither the Paladin nor Barbarian need accuracy boosters) and in the same sentence fail to acknowledge that enemies don't move into positions that allow for double stuns very often. Useful when it happens, but a low level ranger still doesnt feel like she adds as much to the situation as the mage, because ranged kick is just that much better.

Furthermore, the Paladin has for me always been the one with the fewest kills, because the Barbarian can get close enough to an enemy and still attack with her dash, or push people out of cover with her war cry, leaving the enemies exposed to fire from the archer and mage. The paladin meanwhile disrupts overwatch or creates a ZoC for archers. And again, it's a "team heal" that requires bringing the squishies close.

And seriously. "Every character's job is 'kill something'." Of course it is. You're seriously going to argue that as a point when discussing the purpose of roles in the game? It's a null point.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Are you for real? You complain that I didn't acknowledge your accuracy boost (which has the same problem as the heal, requiring close proximity to the paladin, which leaves the squishy ranger and mage exposed. And neither the Paladin nor Barbarian need accuracy boosters) and in the same sentence fail to acknowledge that enemies don't move into positions that allow for double stuns very often. Useful when it happens, but a low level ranger still doesnt feel like she adds as much to the situation as the mage, because ranged kick is just that much better.

I think you misunderstand the ability...

*ENEMIES* near the Paladin are easier for everyone else to hit. Your ranged characters can be nowhere near your paladin. As long as your Paladin is in the thick of it, your ranged characters get relevant accuracy bonuses. Passively.

As far as the rest, I suppose we simply have extremely different play styles and philosophies.

[Alent]

Thanks for the key to let me try this out- I definitely think you've got something special here. I'll kind of just run through my thoughts on my first play/stream today, I really enjoyed it, but felt like I failed a bit at making the stream interesting. I'm doing some editing to crop the audio checks and stuff at the start of the video and then I'll repost it and link.

Sometime this week when I get my major work project finished, I'll sit down and do another play session where I study it without worrying about trying to keep things moving for the sake of the stream, and get a more thorough impression built up. The game is different enough from the ones I'm used to that it did take a little while to shift my thinking into it, so I think that more thorough session will result in a better follow up video.

The good:
I'll start off with something that was a personal concern- the Action point and overwatch system. Most games I've played with that particular set of features tend to lose most of their strategic depth to the point most of the time they are mutually exclusive with strategy and tactics. Fortunately, keeping the point tally at 2 really makes it work, keeping it within the realm of the traditional Move + Act concept that games like TO/FFT/etc. use.

The Terrain interactions are a pure win. Make sure that no matter what, keep as much of that in as you reasonably can. There are, however, a few places where they need polishing up. If you diagonally kick a tree, it's going to fall in a direction and I couldn't really find a way to change that direction. Additionally, I really like how that one ranger spell lets you turn everything into air hockey. :D

I don't have anything new to say about the dialog, but I definitely enjoy it. I actually found myself constantly derailed by the flow of humor and text amusing me. Probably bad for my stream, but I really enjoyed it all the same. ^_^

The bad:

I had a little bit of an awkward time with the start of chapter 1, specifically the team of Skeletal Archers supporting Mr. Death-challenged at the end. I get you're supposed to go in slowly and brace, but there's a spot in there where you're encouraged to drop your guard and someone usually dies when you do.

The 4 person limit. The prologue made me think I'd be able to get up to 5 or 6 party members, so when I went to recruit a 5th person, I found I couldn't. I really think the game will work better with parties of 6.

Your characters need work. Lots of it. Not in terms of dialog, but in terms of gameplay structure- the random skill choice is so-so, kinda nifty-ish in some ways, but the lack of predictability causes them to lose any real sense of growth. I can see why you were interested in building character attachment, I really didn't find myself being very interested in the characters past the oneliners themselves. Once I started chapter 1 and found myself looking at a second batch of sameFace mcRandomName, I found it harder to remember the names from the first chapter. I would suggest 3 changes:

• Customization. Change Names, portraits, etc. This is a huge streaming/LP thing- "Okay, who do I name this one after? After you? okay, pick a portrait!" This will help both player and streamer alike. (I think a choice of classes at the start of Ch1 would also be a good idea, but I think you mentioned that was off the table earlier?)
• Add Equipment and inventory management. It doesn't have to be complicated, just enough to give players something to lust after in shops.
• Provide some kind of preview of what skills are available. I don't think the random itself is necessarily bad, but show a more clear picture of what each option lets you work towards. I would also consider using some form of affinity unlock, such as the ranger wearing Ice armor or an ice elemental weapon to give you the option of learning ice arrow at level up.

The Ugly:

Grappling shot is awesome... but why does it obey cover? I got so many kills with this ability, and got to do some silly stuff with it, but... uh... it feels like it's supposed to be a counter for monsters in cover. Like you're supposed to shoot something in cover, and yank it out, taking the cover down with it. Instead, you end up with the same low hit rate, so I tended to just yank cover behind a monster into said monster, usually taking their cover out at the same time. The result is what I saw as my favorite move ended up also being "Gr, I don't think this is going to work..." more often than not.

On that note, terrain attacks feel much more useful than the actual melee and ranged attacks. This is probably subjective due to "new toy" syndrome, but I really felt like my ranged characters were less than useful without overwatch or their terrain abilities off cooldown.

Your overworld definitely feels like it would work perfectly with an injury system like the recent battletech title, as opposed to permadeath. The raw magic as currency idea lends to resurrection, and the day/week model would work nicely with a time penalty. (I'd have them auto resurrected for no cost at the end of battle and just call the injury timer "Resurrection sickness") This would encourage you to both avoid letting people die, but also encourage you to build an A and B team... or it would if you could get more than 4 people in ch1.

I feel like the font needs to be a size bigger and possibly stand out a little more. I ran into a "That was dumb of me" issue with this as I scale the game down a little in OBS to make room for embedding twitch chat on the left, which made it hardish for viewers to read the game text, but I also found I was skimming past some text without mentally registering it in my regular gameplay, also.

As another little thing, one of my viewers was really thrown by how misses didn't have their own special sound effect. I think it was the sound of hitting terrain doodads, but that may be something to put down for a later polish pass.

The Prologue:
Pretty fun. I'm not even sure where to begin commentary wise because it had me chuckling the whole way. Lots of fun destructibles, some of which probably needed better clarification on what each did. (The pots in particular stand out. I smashed all of them in the hallway to figure out what they did, and very nearly blew one up in my own face.)

I couldn't figure out how to target the Goblin tunnel, and ended up destroying it by accident while trying to kill a goblin down the tunnel.

Chapter 1:
First, I really think you should make the Mayor's risen daughter a PC instead of just part of the enemy encounter. Make her come back after every map regardless of death, without any timer penalty. Considering the circumstances of her unlife, it'd be great snarky fun.

On mid battle character death affecting dialog:
Having seen the script, I feel you could probably get away with having a living character go "Psst- read so and so's lines." and just have one of the survivors pick up the lines while pretending to be the other character.

I'm sure I'll think of more to say later, but that's all I can think of for now.

Edit: *points down* GilesTheCleric was one of my viewers during the stream. :D

[GilesTheCleric]

The good:

I would add that another UI thing I thought was good was the interaction between the camera and foes behind objects. The transparency effect on buildings and walls and whatever was much classier, I thought, than just doing an outline like in Torchlight (also new Xcom? I can't remember how that game handles it). I didn't take a hard look at how that effect worked in detail, that is, QA testing it. But, I did want to mention that you might consider adding a footprint to your objects. As it stands, the see-through mode appears to just reveal whatever terrain is beneath each house/ wall/ whatever. Giving them a solid footprint might make the depth perception of where those hidden foes are in relation to the structure more clear, especially for the bigger ones like the houses.

Also, please don't ever remove the current camera freedom. It looked like players are able to rotate the angle in just about any increment, rather than fixed increments like Xcom (which was super gross). I don't know if there's a need to unlock z-angle or to allow height changes; that would probably depend on your level design. As-is, it looked like there wasn't a ton of vertical movement, so Z-axis adjustment may not be necessary.

The bad:

I assume adding detailed tooltips/ some sort of game mechanic encyclopedia is low-priority right now. As a 3e player, knowing game mechanic details is very important to me. I know the trend in gaming right now is to rely on users to google or look at wikis, but *get off my lawn* I dislike that trend and think it's wrong. Whenever you can teach/ show the player the mechanics, such as through that low-risk corridor with the pots before the boss battle, or with tooltips/ an in-game wiki, I think that strengthens the wide appeal of the game, and makes it more portable.

I didn't play, so I don't know how modifiable the controls are, but that's always important for a PC game. Judging from the visuals and how many objects/ particle effects were being rendered at once, it looks to me like this game is being aimed at lower-power machines, possibly including phones/ tablets. Allowing users with higher-spec machines to up the draw distance or that sort of thing would be nice. I know I get constantly frustrated by that in torchlight (and yes, I know the draw distance is tied to the aggro mechanics in that game, but still -- it hampers certain styles of play).

The ugly:

I'm pretty addicted to Battle Brothers, and think it's better than xcom or just about any other tactics game I've played, so until I'm forever done with that game, I probably won't be picking up any other tactics games in the interim, which means maybe I'm not your target demo. If the movement puzzling bits continue to be pushed and unique, then that might be something that makes it different enough to the rest of the genre to pique my interest. So feel free to ignore everything I've said, I don't mind ^^

--

Overall, I'm impressed. Some of my words may be critical, but that's because there's so many other things about this game that are great and don't need comment. Don't stop what you're doing.

[adamzeira]

Updated the first post with the whole "pitch ideas/write dialogue -> get keys" plan

Agree about characters being unbalanced by the way. Not sure in which direction - some people swear by the Paladin, some by the Savage, some by the ranger. Most people agree the mage, when she reaches higher levels, is by far the most OP :) Balancing definitely needs to happen, we tweak it occasionally but it's a work in progress. I think the trick would be to decide and give each hero 1-3 "ways of being played"

for example if the Paladin (who's the closest to being this way) had skills correlated to
1. Staying near the party and buffing/debuffing
2. Running into the midst of the enemy and still be useful thanks to auras, maybe an auto-brace in the future, etc

Similar to how in xcom they make sure each class has two general playstyles - supports specialize in either healing or mobility + overwatch. Heavies can be either attackers or use rockets. Rangers either scout or use melee attacks, etc

Cool suggestions are welcome



Bunch of random ideas, in no particular order, would love to hear thoughts:
What do you guys think about making health carry over to the world map? So a hero finishing a battle with 5/8 health carries that over to the world. And of course implementing ways of resting/healing on the world map. Not sure if that would be fun or annoying

Another idea for the world map - supplies as a resource that is consumed for example at a rate of 1/hero per day, so travelling the world becomes a bit of a game in that you could lose in it and have to be on your toes

Regarding the paladin discussion earlier - what if the Paladins healing aura triggered as long as he's close enough to the dying target, regardless of who makes the kill

Thanks for the key to let me try this out- I definitely think you've got something special here. I'll kind of just run through my thoughts on my first play/stream today...

Relayed a ton of the things, thanks :) Great points

The idea with the mayors daughter is awesome. If we find a writer with more time to spare I'm suggesting it right away

I'm pretty addicted to Battle Brothers

Would love to hear your thoughts on the strategic map then :) I think it's a big part of what carries Battle Brothers through to being a great game. And we're just now getting to the point of working on the strategic

Going to make sure the urns in crypt get their effect explanation popup, great catch. There's an interesting quote of Sid Meier where he says strategy games are all about giving players 2-3 good clear and understandable choices at a time, which I think for all of the complexity strategy games have is surprisingly true. And urns having clear indications would be a big help in that regard

But if he instead lost an eye then your a little more screwed. Or you would be. If the Worldshapers would not love to sell you a crystal eye thats 90% likely to not expose your poor hero to the horrors hiding in fabric of reality. Observing with their unblinking eyes.

Hah, love the idea of whatever resurrection or healing methods being weird insane experiments by the mages

[lord_khaine]

On mid battle character death affecting dialog:
Having seen the script, I feel you could probably get away with having a living character go "Psst- read so and so's lines." and just have one of the survivors pick up the lines while pretending to be the other character.

I second this idea. Its Hilarious. If Rockheart the Barbarian is down, then Tim the intern is pushed on to the scene and given a script to read from :D

Hah, love the idea of whatever resurrection or healing methods being weird insane experiments by the mages

Well. The idea were mainly that it was how you had to treat the worst class of afflictions. The ones where something had been chopped off.

I dont know how much gear there is in the game. But it also adds a new option for upgrades. Like grafting a ogre arm to the barbarian. Or giving the Paladin a Troll Blood infusion (68% risk free)

[GilesTheCleric]

Bunch of random ideas, in no particular order, would love to hear thoughts:
What do you guys think about making health carry over to the world map? So a hero finishing a battle with 5/8 health carries that over to the world. And of course implementing ways of resting/healing on the world map. Not sure if that would be fun or annoying

Having damage carry over will make the game longer and a little more grindy. Though I play many games like that (see: battle brothers, darkest dungeon, mount and blade, dungeons of dredmor), it may not be necessary for you to include depending on the pacing you desire. The atmosphere of this game isn't quite as gritty as those other games, so the mechanic may also not fit in that sense.

Another idea for the world map - supplies as a resource that is consumed for example at a rate of 1/hero per day, so travelling the world becomes a bit of a game in that you could lose in it and have to be on your toes

Survival elements are popular (read: overused) in games right now. Do you want to add a macro layer to your game like that, and what benefit does it achieve? You already have a limitation on overworld exploration via the "days/ travel distance" mechanic. Do you need both?

Would love to hear your thoughts on the strategic map then :) I think it's a big part of what carries Battle Brothers through to being a great game. And we're just now getting to the point of working on the strategic

I only got to see a little bit of the overworld when Alent was streaming; I'll share my thoughts on it once I get a better look.

[Knaight]

Bunch of random ideas, in no particular order, would love to hear thoughts:
What do you guys think about making health carry over to the world map? So a hero finishing a battle with 5/8 health carries that over to the world. And of course implementing ways of resting/healing on the world map. Not sure if that would be fun or annoying

Another idea for the world map - supplies as a resource that is consumed for example at a rate of 1/hero per day, so travelling the world becomes a bit of a game in that you could lose in it and have to be on your toes

Regarding the paladin discussion earlier - what if the Paladins healing aura triggered as long as he's close enough to the dying target, regardless of who makes the kill.

In order - annoying, potentially workable but likely annoying, and probably both useful and decently balanced.

[Alent]

On the mad science experiment resurrections, that could be AMAZING. I could see wanting some people to die just to frankenstein them and then once you have ones you like, wanting to keep the "perfect mutations" alive because a death may take an upgrade as easily as give it. Very interesting idea.

Bunch of random ideas, in no particular order, would love to hear thoughts:
What do you guys think about making health carry over to the world map? So a hero finishing a battle with 5/8 health carries that over to the world. And of course implementing ways of resting/healing on the world map. Not sure if that would be fun or annoying

I suggest you avoid this. You have a very low resource setup that lends itself to a "Start fresh every time" design that seems to suit the overall tone of your game.

Another idea for the world map - supplies as a resource that is consumed for example at a rate of 1/hero per day, so travelling the world becomes a bit of a game in that you could lose in it and have to be on your toes

The world map is already insanely busy. If you do this, it needs to be limited to a single chapter's gimmick where some of the other gimmicks are shut down, or there's some set urgency to drive it. Else, it will be like food in D&D: An incredibly annoyance everyone wants to mod away and fails to appreciate.

It could definitely make for an interesting gimmick in the right circumstance where other things such as faction, etc. are disabled, but otherwise it seems like it would be redundant to all your other overworld mechanics.

Regarding the paladin discussion earlier - what if the Paladins healing aura triggered as long as he's close enough to the dying target, regardless of who makes the kill

One thing I intend to study when I get back to the game is if there's anything to gain from strategic knockback/grapple hook/other forms of ice hockey near the Paladin. One of the things I found was that the Ranger's rain spell made it very easy to shoot people into attacks of opportunity, and it seems to me that if you're using the Paladin as the fulcrum to such a thing, you could rapidly pile up +1 heals, so long as AoO limits allow. That said, it'll be a few days before I can pull the game up and play again.

The results of that testing will determine my answer to this.

Relayed a ton of the things, thanks :) Great points

The idea with the mayors daughter is awesome. If we find a writer with more time to spare I'm suggesting it right away

Suggest it anyway, I think it will bring the first chapter to life! *rimshot*

[Lionheart]

I took one of the early keys, but haven't had as much time as I would have liked to play through yet. What little I have played relates closely to a lot of comments so far. I'll try to be more specific as I go on.

That said, I am a writer by profession, and would really like to get involved in this side of the game if you're looking for help. Just DM me if you want to talk it through, but always happy to build my portfolio.

[adamzeira]

Having damage carry over will make the game longer and a little more grindy. Though I play many games like that (see: battle brothers, darkest dungeon, mount and blade, dungeons of dredmor), it may not be necessary for you to include depending on the pacing you desire. The atmosphere of this game isn't quite as gritty as those other games, so the mechanic may also not fit in that sense.

Looks like a unanimous no. Neat, less work :)

Working on the party screen now, which is the basis for a lot of the elements brought up that were problematic

- Heroes deaths/resurrection/rotation/recruitment
- Inventory
- Leveling up
- Slight customization (At least renaming for now, hopefully portraits soon)

I second this idea. Its Hilarious. If Rockheart the Barbarian is down, then Tim the intern is pushed on to the scene and given a script to read from :D

I like it

Not precisely related but brought to mind something I wonder about - still trying to figure out how to balance when to break the 4th wall and when not to. In the beginning of the first printed book of OotS Rich writes about how he regrets doing it in the very first page

Recently I thought Deadpool 2 did a really nice job of it. Didn't like the first movie, but felt the second really nailed it. I wonder if a few of the tricks to pulling it off are
1. Limiting breaking the 4th wall to a small number of character (Deadpool, mostly Elan)
2. By the nature of things it makes stories un-serious. So making sure there are sufficiently dramatic moments to balance things out (something I think made deadpool 1 not great at all)
3. Having serious characters. In OotS as much as everyone jokes around, you do have the villains who genuinely try to destroy the world. Dark stuff. In deadpool 2 there's Cable and a few other characters who are very intense+serious and make a great contrast

That said, I am a writer by profession, and would really like to get involved in this side of the game if you're looking for help.

DMing you. I'll repeat what I've said to some people in DMs -

1. Nothing would make me happier than finding someone to take care of the writing. It's a task that's not easy to do by itself, nevermind juggle with other responsibilities. All you need to do is write something that convinces me and the other team members that you can write well
2. I think the real test here is the tone - it's not easy finding someone who gets it and writes things that are amusing yet pull you in. That's going to be the criteria to convince me and other team members - if you can pull that off, you're in
3. The test to see if you have what it takes is to see your take on the Mages Showdown (mission 3) dialogues. The first 2 dialogues are on page 1 of this thread. I'll post the final 2 dialogues of the mission here in a bit in case anyone wants to do the entire thing, as it gives you the ability to add twists in the middle/end
4. Payment isn't something we can do atm until covering the games expenses. but anything else we can offer is on the table. And of course if the game does well, that changes
5. We move pretty quickly. If you write cool content that's well received you can see it in the game a week later, and of course all credit goes to you if you want to use it in a portfolio

[JeenLeen]

Just played a couple hours last night, getting through the Village missions in the Prologue and about to enter where the goblin leads you.

Overall, rather liked it. The tone of writing matches the art pretty well, but there's also detailed strategy and tactics. I thought the first mission did a good job of showing how to move, attack, and interact with the environment.

In the first Village fight, it took me a while to figure out I couldn't attack then move, or that attacks used up all remaining AP. Also took me a while to figure out where my AP-left was. Maybe I missed that in the first mission, but if not, adding that intel could help.
I found the fights fair difficulty. Not too hard, but a couple times I was close to a PC dying.

The main bother I had was healing potions. It was unclear to me if they are one-use, or just a long recharge. Also, being unable to swap inventory or use them on an ally you are next to is hard. Lastly, took me a moment to realize they use 0 AP (right?).
I get that some others have noted similar concerns with inventory.

In the cave fight, is there any boon to killing spiders? I freed a few from webs, and I guess I got a few extra XP, but I wasn't clear. I ask mainly because if there's something to interact with in the environment that makes enemies, it should be meaningful. Especially if you could screw yourself over by making tiny enemies that bite you while you're busy fighting goblins.

I agree that full-heal between fights is nice. I think honestly needed, or else I wouldn't have finished the Village fights without losing 1 or 2 characters.
I'm against 'food' or another resource. (I reckon how many days you spend traveling will have some counter in the actual game.)
I think injury that regens over time is much better than permadeath.


EDIT/possible bug report
In the prologue, when I enter the cave (so still in 'world map' mode, but inside the cave), I walked to a chest & had the goblin open it. He got a healing potion. But when I went to the battle area, he didn't have a potion. So it seems like some bug happened to make him not get his potion.

Also, is there some point (after a battle scene, after resting for a night, etc.) that potions vanish? I noticed the healing potions I got in the Village weren't there in the last area.
I may have rested between getting the potion and starting the fight, so if that undoes potions, I guess this isn't a bug.

[adamzeira]

Boom, major patch out! Has some really nice changes


Your feedback and feedback from others (broadly) boiled down into 4 categories of issues regularly brought up
- Balance ideas for hero death
- Inventory
- Skills/Leveling up system
- Customization

Inventory and the party screen are the first step as they lead to the rest, inventory is 95% in, you can roam and collect artifacts and relics. The one remaining thing there is I'd like is to create more interesting relics that substantially modify gameplay (there are 2 of these already)
The rest of the feedback was lightly touched on, you can manage party members, have more than your basic party count, choose who goes on missions, customize their names, and heroes have a random different look.

https://twitter.com/FortTriumph/stat...92421506035712


There's also a summer sale going on, if you want you can get the game for a discounted price, and we definitely appreciate the support
https://store.steampowered.com/app/612570/Fort_Triumph/

A few keys, please provide feedback if you take one, and post something saying which you took so I can remove it:
IMH2W-TZ20V-T66EH
KI0ZX-YJ4L5-BIZWX
X6J04-R8RA5-8B9L0

[adamzeira]

Small patch released, updated first page information

[Divayth Fyr]

Took X6J04-R8RA5-8B9L0, thanks!

Will try to provide feedback once I can get to play the game, which probably won't be today nor tomorrow though.

[adamzeira]

There's no 1-day rush, can be next week as well :) As long as you remember as it's very important to us

[Rhazal]

Took KI0ZX-YJ4L5-BIZWX, thanks for that.

Started playing the tutorial, great fun so far and I like the art style, tree and goblin bowling with vortex is a funny physics interaction.

[DodgerH2O]

Been eyeballing this game for a bit and Steam even recommended it. I never buy Early Access no matter how promising but I'll definitely take a free copy in exchange for feedback. Used IMH2W-TZ20V-T66EH and installing right now.

[JeenLeen]

Cool. I'll try to get some time to game this week/weekend and see if I have any strong opinions.

[DodgerH2O]

Haven't had much time to play yet, still in the tutorial but I did notice one thing. I use controller only and the "highlight" on the buttons in the Settings menu is rather dim and hard to discern. It's visible, for sure, but it took me a minute or so of looking to figure out which of two options was the highlighted one. With a mouse you just click but I'm a big fan of controller-based games due to a RSI and the interface isn't quite as clear as it could be.

[adamzeira]

New patch is out with the new campaign and strategic map. A *lot* of changes have been implemented since the game first came out and this post was made. Also added 3 keys in the hopes of getting more feedback, as this seems to have worked out last time

Thanks guys!