Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

[Rater202]

They blatantly ignored Miguel O'hara's upgraded armor after mentioning it in video and that 1: You can't pick up Mjolnir without gaining Godlike power and 2: The original Spider-Man 2099 storyline was building up to Miguel becoming the new Thor and using that to become the benevolent leader of the world and solve all of 2099's problems.

Mjolnir was a major part of his characterization on par with King Arthur's Excalibur or the Infinity Gauntlet for Thanos.

By all means, Batman Beyond vs Spider-Man 2099 should have been a curb stomp in Miguel's favor, but they leave him at his base level despite mentioning his upgrades while giving Terry his own upgrades from that post series comic AU and pull some stuff out of their asses to let him win.

And I've explained the Superman vs Goku videos and how they've blatantly failed in their logic several times, even citing how Goku's maximum power output vastly dwarfs Superman's known upper limits of durability and how Death battles has taken things out of context to over-inflate Superman's feats of durability.

I explained how events from comics that DB referenced in the Aquaman vs Namor video should have made it a curb-stomp in Namor's favor due to Namor's hydrokinesis being far stronger than anything along those lines that Aquaman has faced leading to complete control of the battlefield.

the Captain Marvel vs Shazam video had them use a feat that Billy did when he was at least a hundred times his normal size as if it was his base strength and interpreted the "Wisdom of Solomon" and all that Jaz literally to use Zeus' feats of dynakenisis as part of Billy's calcs, both of which are rather unfair.

I also recently explained how Lucy vs Carnage should have ended as a draw becuase Lucy's finisher wouldn't have done **** to Carnage taking his greatest feats of durability into account(and since DB goes by feats they should have) which isn't exactly related to the DC discussion but does show some bias against Marvel.

My thought: They started out just Superman biased, but over time it's switched to a bias towards DC in general as an extension of the Superman wank.

As for OG Spider-Man beating OG Batman, Venom against Bane, and Rogue against Wonder Woman... all that shows is that DC can lose when they're paired up against someone who outclasses them in every conceivable way and even then Aquaman vs Namor strongly implies that this is no longer the case.

[Lemmy]

I don't think they should have used Mjolnir when discussing Spider-Man 2099. It's too far removed from the character's standard power set, and unlike Arthur & Excalibur or Thanos & Infinity Gauntlet, it's not iconic to the character. No one thinks "Spider-Man 2099" and immediately thinks "Mjolnir" the say way they do with the other mentioned characters. Giving him the Mjolnir would be like giving Super-Man the Mjlonir and Captain America's shield because of that one storyline where he used both, giving Batman a Green Lantern's ring (or Kryptonian powers) or giving Joker Mr.Mitzplik's powers.

Shazam and Cap Marvel seemed pretty accurate to how they are usually presented. Shazam is consistently shown to be about on par with Superman. Captain Marvel is powerful, but doesn't usually get the "strongest in the universe" theme going for her, and is more often shown as powerful, but not nearly as game-breaking as Superman. The DC universe in general works at much higher power tier than Marvel's.

I can't really comment on Carnage, as I haven't really had any interest in the character in years. And it's been quite a while since I read Elfen Lied too... From what I remember, Carnage too isn't shown as being super-mega-resilient to the point of surviving nuclear blasts in most stories... But he did suffer a disgusting amount of power creep over the years.

But I'm not denying they have a pretty strong bias, as I strongly suspect is the case of Green Lantern vs Ben 10. If they like a character better than the other, they'll bend over and back to justify whatever mental gymnastics are required to make their chosen victor win.

[Forum Explorer]

I also recently explained how Lucy vs Carnage should have ended as a draw becuase Lucy's finisher wouldn't have done **** to Carnage taking his greatest feats of durability into account(and since DB goes by feats they should have) which isn't exactly related to the DC discussion but does show some bias against Marvel.

I'll agree more or less with the rest of it, but I'll still say that the bio-bomb that Carnage tanked is well below Lucy's finisher in power. Which in of itself, was well below her actual maximum capabilities. Even if that wasn't the case, Lucy could just pick Carnage up and throw him into the sun, because even if he can survive in space, he can't move in space, and will eventually hit the sun even if it takes years to get there.

[HolyDraconus]

25k negative reviews and rising. Its bloody obvious that this was rigged. Like, how does a guy who has a device that literally has resurrection abilities, and needed precise information and tactics just to be removed from his wrist lose?

[Rater202]

They should have used Mjolnir when discussing Spider-Man 2099 becuase literally the entire original Spider-Man 2099 run if not the original 2099 continuity as a whole built up to Miguel gaining Mjolnir.

There's even a Thorite Prophecy that states that the return of Spider-Man will herald the return of Thor which turns out to be about Miguel gaining Mjolnir.

They cited Shazam punching open a black hole and in the fight had him do so... At normal size, when in the story he did it he was about a hundred times his normal size with presumably proportionate increases in strength and citing things that Zues did when I'm pretty sure the X of Y speech is meant to be metaphorical rather than literal.

Carnage: He not only survived an explosion that was meant to saturate the planet with enough it's fallout(The biggest bomb in the world is thousands of times greater than the explosion they cited for Lucy's finishing move and an explosion big enough to have planet-wide fallout would be hundreds of times that size as an extremely conservative estimate) but was able to contain the explosion within his body so that it only affected the top floor of a standard sized skyscraper.

About a year before the Carnage vs Lucy video was announced, Carnage was empowered by the Elder God Cthon and in addition to becoming more powerful, lost his vulnerable to fire and sonics(the things that make explosions dangerous to him in the first place.)

It, by all means, should have been a draw--Carnage couldn't have gotten to Lucy but Lucy wouldn't have been able to meaningfully harm Carnage.

[Forum Explorer]

They cited Shazam punching open a black hole and in the fight had him do so... At normal size, when in the story he did it he was about a hundred times his normal size with presumably proportionate increases in strength and citing things that Zues did when I'm pretty sure the X of Y speech is meant to be metaphorical rather than literal.

Carnage: He not only survived an explosion that was meant to saturate the planet with enough it's fallout(The biggest bomb in the world is thousands of times greater than the explosion they cited for Lucy's finishing move and an explosion big enough to have planet-wide fallout would be hundreds of times that size as an extremely conservative estimate) but was able to contain the explosion within his body so that it only affected the top floor of a standard sized skyscraper.

About a year before the Carnage vs Lucy video was announced, Carnage was empowered by the Elder God Cthon and in addition to becoming more powerful, lost his vulnerable to fire and sonics(the things that make explosions dangerous to him in the first place.)

It, by all means, should have been a draw--Carnage couldn't have gotten to Lucy but Lucy wouldn't have been able to meaningfully harm Carnage.

Speaking of the size growth, did Shazam grow himself, or was he being grown by something else? Because if it's the former, then I can see the point of them using it as his strength. Except I can't because you can't really punch a black hole into existence. Because, and DC comics are super bad about this, they aren't literal holes.


An explosion to have planet wide fallout would a) certainly destroy whatever virus it was meant to spread, and b) kill everyone on the planet, not just humans. Or at least, cause another ice age which would have much the same effect. This is a rare case of writer's ignoring science actually making a feat much less impressive number wise.

But even if that was the case, and Lucy couldn't kill him via explosion, she could still do stuff like toss him into deep space, towards the sun, or literally disintegrate him at a molecular level.

[Rater202]

I mentioned this before, but the Gene Bomb was made with Apocolypse Tech and he gets a lot of mileage out of various strains of the Techno-organic virus, which is more accurately a living machine that behaves as microscopic parasite rather than an actual virus that would be killed by heat.

Notably, Apocalypse himself absorbed the virus early in his history, used the same strain to try and assassinate Cable, and used a variation of it to create the Techno-Organic Wings that he gave (Arch)angel when he became the Horseman of Death.

In all likelihood, whatever was meant to kill the non-mutants was itself another varient of this same technology.

And if a bomb that big would kill everyone on the planet, well, keep in mind the X-Men were under a moral inversion spell when they did that and they're not exactly the sanest people in the world on a good day.

As for chucking Carnage into Space... It didn't work when the Sentry did it.

[Keltest]

As for chucking Carnage into Space... It didn't work when the Sentry did it.

Obviously not, because they didn't actually want to kill the character, but that isn't the same thing as "there are no circumstances where this could be made to work."

[Rater202]

Obviously not, because they didn't actually want to kill the character, but that isn't the same thing as "there are no circumstances where this could be made to work."

If "Superman but insane and probably a reality warper" can't do it and make it work, I doubt most people could.

[HolyDraconus]

If "Superman but insane and probably a reality warper" can't do it and make it work, I doubt most people could.

I wouldn't count that Sentry. He's been fighting at LESS than half strength for years. I wouldn't be surprised now that he can slap down Carnage with a thought.

[Forum Explorer]

I mentioned this before, but the Gene Bomb was made with Apocolypse Tech and he gets a lot of mileage out of various strains of the Techno-organic virus, which is more accurately a living machine that behaves as microscopic parasite rather than an actual virus that would be killed by heat.

Notably, Apocalypse himself absorbed the virus early in his history, used the same strain to try and assassinate Cable, and used a variation of it to create the Techno-Organic Wings that he gave (Arch)angel when he became the Horseman of Death.

In all likelihood, whatever was meant to kill the non-mutants was itself another varient of this same technology.

And if a bomb that big would kill everyone on the planet, well, keep in mind the X-Men were under a moral inversion spell when they did that and they're not exactly the sanest people in the world on a good day.

As for chucking Carnage into Space... It didn't work when the Sentry did it.

I'm pretty sure a bomb that big would kill Apocolypse, so it would certainly wipe out the techno-organic virus too.

They all certainly believed they would survive. Now I did read through the comic in question and first off, oh my goodness, I forgot how bad the writing could be. Case in point is the gene bomb. Here is all the information we get about the bomb:

1. It targets DNA
2. If you don't have a X-gene you die
3. It explodes for some reason
4. It's set off inside the ship.

Like, ow, numbers 3 and 4 combined hurt my brain. A lot. At that point I'd almost believe that Apocolypse sub-consciously sabotaged the bomb to not work, and everyone else was currently going crazy enough to not notice, because holy carp that makes no sense.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Carnage returned from space because someone retrieved him to steal his Symbiote. He may have been able to survive space, but he was stuck. So in a Death Battle, that would be enough to beat him, particularly if he was tossed towards the sun, since he would eventually burn up without outside intervention.

[Rater202]

This wasn't available at the time, but Carnage was spaced again in Venomized and returned to Earth under his own power shortly after as detailed in Web of Venom: Carnage Born.

Granted, he died five minutes after he hit the ground, but he was weakened from having to regenerate not only his symbiote but literally his entire body from scratch, so...

[Keltest]

I wouldn't count that Sentry. He's been fighting at LESS than half strength for years. I wouldn't be surprised now that he can slap down Carnage with a thought.

Perhaps more to the point, "didn't" doesn't mean "can't".

[deuterio12]

I'll agree more or less with the rest of it, but I'll still say that the bio-bomb that Carnage tanked is well below Lucy's finisher in power. Which in of itself, was well below her actual maximum capabilities. Even if that wasn't the case, Lucy could just pick Carnage up and throw him into the sun, because even if he can survive in space, he can't move in space, and will eventually hit the sun even if it takes years to get there.

Even supes lampshaded that throwing opponents into space is a terrible idea because 99% of the time they just return stronger and angrier.

[Traab]

Yeah this battle sucked, not going to bother spoiling at this point, if you havent watched it yet, you wont. There was no excuse for ben to lose. At best it should have been a draw as both sides have their magic item that automatically protects them according to quoted feats. So neither could finish the other. In reality ben should have won as green lantern has a very much so finite energy source that requires recharging while ben has managed to bypass his need to go human after a sharp time limit. In a war of reality bending, time travel and other such stupid shenanigans, green lantern should have run dry on power and died during the 4d slap fight they were involved in. Just look at the end of the battle, ben traveled back in time and stopped green lantern from recharging, hal should have tried to manipulate time, lost his green lantern suit and explosively decompressed.

As for the next battle, meh, my knowledge of rwby is encompassed by all of one fanfic I read that had ranma appear in the universe, and I have never even been remotely interested in the persona series. I dont care.

[HolyDraconus]

From 42k dislikes to 38? They can't hide this forever.

[Dragonus45]

Yeah this battle sucked, not going to bother spoiling at this point, if you havent watched it yet, you wont. There was no excuse for ben to lose. At best it should have been a draw as both sides have their magic item that automatically protects them according to quoted feats. So neither could finish the other. In reality ben should have won as green lantern has a very much so finite energy source that requires recharging while ben has managed to bypass his need to go human after a sharp time limit. In a war of reality bending, time travel and other such stupid shenanigans, green lantern should have run dry on power and died during the 4d slap fight they were involved in. Just look at the end of the battle, ben traveled back in time and stopped green lantern from recharging, hal should have tried to manipulate time, lost his green lantern suit and explosively decompressed.

As for the next battle, meh, my knowledge of rwby is encompassed by all of one fanfic I read that had ranma appear in the universe, and I have never even been remotely interested in the persona series. I dont care.

Thanks for the spoilers my dude.

[Traab]

Thanks for the spoilers my dude.

You are very welcome. If the first 30 or so posts with the current battle being spoilered didnt inform you it was up and you should watch it, well, you probably still dont realize it so no big deal.

[Lord Raziere]

You are very welcome. If the first 30 or so posts with the current battle being spoilered didnt inform you it was up and you should watch it, well, you probably still dont realize it so no big deal.

Lets be honest, the entire internet is a spoiler these days, we might as well put up a neon sign on google: warning spoilers for all media.

[Dragonus45]

You are very welcome. If the first 30 or so posts with the current battle being spoilered didnt inform you it was up and you should watch it, well, you probably still dont realize it so no big deal.

Its called sarcasm, because that was a **** move. I don't agree with the battle either, nor do I really think most death battles are that great. But just spoiling it like that says more about you then it does the death battle.

[Traab]

Its called sarcasm, because that was a **** move. I don't agree with the battle either, nor do I really think most death battles are that great. But just spoiling it like that says more about you then it does the death battle.

And if someone has read through the last 30 posts and still ignored the fact that the battle is up, that is just beyond bizarre. Should I continue to put the toph/garra fight in spoilers when I want to rant about it again just in case someone hasnt seen it yet? I have no problem putting up spoiler tags on a newly released fight, but considering the results are literally a page back already, if you havent watched the fight, why are you still scrolling through the comments?

[Delicious Taffy]

Can we just start putting the title of the show in spoiler boxes, please? How about the names of the combatants? I don't want to know this show even exists until I've seen the latest episode. Can we put the creators in spoiler jail for recording the voice-over? It's kind of a **** move for them to do that before it's even out.

[Forum Explorer]

Can we just start putting the title of the show in spoiler boxes, please? How about the names of the combatants? I don't want to know this show even exists until I've seen the latest episode. Can we put the creators in spoiler jail for recording the voice-over? It's kind of a **** move for them to do that before it's even out.

The first few posts do. Quite frankly, if you haven't seen the battle yet, why are you even coming to the thread? It's either going to all be spoiler boxes, or you'll end up getting spoiled.

[Delicious Taffy]

The first few posts do. Quite frankly, if you haven't seen the battle yet, why are you even coming to the thread? It's either going to all be spoiler boxes, or you'll end up getting spoiled.

I was being a smart-ass. Spoiler culture is going to be the death of open discussion.

[Lord Raziere]

I was being a smart-ass. Spoiler culture is going to be the death of open discussion.

if it doesn't die out from the sheer anti-spoiler environment that is the internet. at this point, there are so many outlets of information that its really on the onus of the viewer to not spoil themselves and view something fast while they still can without being spoiled on it. and really, I be very choosy about what I do and don't care about, there are vast portions of media that I don't care one bit about being spoiled at all because they're not something I like. it has to be something really good and worth my time to really care about spoilers, a Death Battle? is like....20 minutes tops? not much to be spoiled on. not the best thing ever even at the best of times, and whats there to spoil? some person winning over another? the discussion surrounding them is more interesting because its actually talking sense rather something fake and presented. I'm not even watching the video, I'm just to discuss things, since I've seen enough about Death battle to know how it works, and once you've seen one death Battle you've basically seen them all.

[Traab]

if it doesn't die out from the sheer anti-spoiler environment that is the internet. at this point, there are so many outlets of information that its really on the onus of the viewer to not spoil themselves and view something fast while they still can without being spoiled on it. and really, I be very choosy about what I do and don't care about, there are vast portions of media that I don't care one bit about being spoiled at all because they're not something I like. it has to be something really good and worth my time to really care about spoilers, a Death Battle? is like....20 minutes tops? not much to be spoiled on. not the best thing ever even at the best of times, and whats there to spoil? some person winning over another? the discussion surrounding them is more interesting because its actually talking sense rather something fake and presented. I'm not even watching the video, I'm just to discuss things, since I've seen enough about Death battle to know how it works, and once you've seen one death Battle you've basically seen them all.

I personally have no problem with the spoiler tags to a point. When things get updated it makes perfect sense for the next few posts to put it in spoilers because the discussions on these threads are ongoing and its easy to not be aware there is new content to discuss. However, I tend to draw the line at clicking on an entirely new page when there has already been half of the previous in spoiler tags. You open a page, see spoilers, go see the new thing and come back. There is no point in being in the thread otherwise and no reason to complain about spoilers if you do. You have no excuse to not realize there is new content to see and go see it before continuing on at that point.

[Anteros]

On the other hand, I often only learn the show is out after someone tells me here. It's fairly common to come to this thread for one of the many other conversations, click the latest page, and have something spoiled for you if it recently released.

[Traab]

On the other hand, I often only learn the show is out after someone tells me here. It's fairly common to come to this thread for one of the many other conversations, click the latest page, and have something spoiled for you if it recently released.

It was still 33 posts between the first reference to the latest db and my own, if you click on the arrow icon it brings you to the last post you read, 33 posts worth of advance knowledge that the latest battle was out and being talked about (though in fairness everyone stopped talking about it fairly quick in favor of griping about death battle in general)

[Lord Raziere]

see, me approach to spoilers is: do I care enough about it that I'd rather go see it first rather than listen to someone elses opinion about whether its good, thus by consequence all the reasons why?

if I don't care enough to see it myself, I'm not wasting valuable time by listening to a summary of it assessing it for me, and if the assessment is negative that means at least one person had reason to dislike it, which is a not a point in the things favor and thus I can safely not waste time seeing it, and if the do say positive things it means I'll go see just to see what the praise is about and assess it for myself. If I do care enough to see it myself without being spoiled, I'll automatically leave and just go see it.

and if I file it away that it was good by someone elses judgement, but don't focus on the reasons why, and then come back to it later, one can often forget what the spoiler even was amidst all the other things you focus on during the day. I might remember it, I might not. but by not making a big deal about it, and thus not getting emotionally invested about the information itself, means I might not care enough to remember and thus DE-spoil myself, sure it means waiting longer, but its all about going at your pace and not the world's pace and focusing on other things that you WANT to focus on rather than what others want you focusing on.

so, really nothing is ever ruined for me, because how can it possibly be ruined? if the spoiler says its bad, I don't see it, if I care enough to avoid spoilers I go see it post hate and I read spoiler and become interested enough to go see it someday when I feel like it, I have that spoiler to thank for the experience and I might not even remember that spoiler or know if the spoiler is true. I mean, plausible internet deniability right? who knows if anything spoilers say on the internet about a piece of media is actually accurate. I don't, not until I see it with my own eyes.

[Dragonus45]

It was still 33 posts between the first reference to the latest db and my own, if you click on the arrow icon it brings you to the last post you read, 33 posts worth of advance knowledge that the latest battle was out and being talked about (though in fairness everyone stopped talking about it fairly quick in favor of griping about death battle in general)

Yea, I missed the part where it was taking about the most recent battle, didn’t even realize it was out because my job sort of precludes surfing the Net for more then an hour at most a day, and mostly just thought the griping about DC was an extension of the last few dozen pages of people griping about Superman again. An easy enough thing to do since the video just came out a couple days ago. And no, complaining about spoilers is not some goofy strange plot to censor all reality.