Grrl Power IV: Constantly Expanded Universe

[Lamech]

<Snip> and the Alari homeworld (which is a tissue thin excuse to let Sydney cut loose).

In which case she would have died on the Alari Homeworld.

And all my solution would require is that you have a short arc showing Sydney becoming a trained professional before she gets deployed, instead of being tossed into situations she only survives because she has artifact grade Plot Armor.

Becoming a trained professional is the sort of thing that takes *weeks*. If Archon's policy was to not use new recruits until weeks of training have happened, Sydney would not have gotten involved in the V fight and Maxima would be dead.

And again, anyone joining ARCHON should be someone who prizes discipline and training, not an idiot looking to blow **** up with their Kewl Powahz. Those are the people ARCHON exists to deal with.

Archon isn't really in a position to turn down high-tier talent. Case in point: Had they turned down Sydney, Maxima would be dead.

[Rogar Demonblud]

You're assuming that the story has to run at a breakneck pace with multiple catastrophic level events happening within a week. They don't. Dave is deliberately effing up the timeline rather than use some basic pacing rules.

[Radar]

In which case she would have died on the Alari Homeworld.
Becoming a trained professional is the sort of thing that takes *weeks*. If Archon's policy was to not use new recruits until weeks of training have happened, Sydney would not have gotten involved in the V fight and Maxima would be dead.

Archon isn't really in a position to turn down high-tier talent. Case in point: Had they turned down Sydney, Maxima would be dead.

Other case in point on the talent-starving nature of Archon: Dabbler (harrasement suit written all over in all languages in the world).

There is a discussion here on why Sydney is not fit to be in active duty, which notably started due to her talking with the press (and we don't know yet, what does she tell them). Contact with media and active duty are two different things. Many soldiers have ample training in one but no experience with the other. Granted, Sydney has little experience in both but she did prove herself in the heat of the action. So I would not question her competence or the choice of fielding her that early.

Yes, the fact that they decided to land openly was a big mistake and it is most likely due to Sydney's lack of military training (don't ignore orders even if you think they are not important anymore), but otherwise she works fine. Besides, it was Cora, who made that call.

[Keltest]

Also, given that Dabbler and Cora were apparently in communication with each other, Archon certainly had the opportunity to express an opinion on the specific way they wanted Cora to land. Its not like Sydney is the only person capable of making a decision or having an input here.

[lord_khaine]

Hindsight should not be used to determine if a decision were correct or not.
Especially not when it involves absurd chains of event.

Other case in point on the talent-starving nature of Archon: Dabbler (harrasement suit written all over in all languages in the world).

Actually no? Harrasment is unwanted attention.
Being who she is, then it has so far only been extreme outliers like Max who disliked her attention.

Besides that, Dabbler just have to many talents, to many skills.
She is a JL grade recruit i whose worth almost eclipses Max's.
I dont think there are any team who would turn her down.
(and thats beside wanting to keep an eye on her)

Besides, it was Cora, who made that call.

And that certainly were a big mistake on Cora's part.
She really should have called Dabbler and if nothing else ask where they would like her to land.

[halfeye]

And that certainly were a big mistake on Cora's part.

That depends on where she is in the extra terrestrial hierarchy. She is acting like the governor of this quarter of the galaxy. If she actually is the biggest wig in this part of the galaxy, then it's no mistake at all. If she's the biggest pirate in the area, then maybe she can be caught if the galaxy is watching the Earth really closely, but it's a gamble that's likely to pay off for her, if not necessarily for Earth. If she's the commander of battleship 159, then maybe the call was a little above her paygrade, but probably not that much. If that thing is a minesweeper, I want to see a battleship.

[lord_khaine]

That depends on where she is in the extra terrestrial hierarchy. She is acting like the governor of this quarter of the galaxy. If she actually is the biggest wig in this part of the galaxy, then it's no mistake at all. If she's the biggest pirate in the area, then maybe she can be caught if the galaxy is watching the Earth really closely, but it's a gamble that's likely to pay off for her, if not necessarily for Earth. If she's the commander of battleship 159, then maybe the call was a little above her paygrade, but probably not that much. If that thing is a minesweeper, I want to see a battleship.

No. It does not matter whom Cora is. Its still a rather big mistake on her part, to not call her contact first, and get confirmation on if, where and when she can land.
You call in first when you land your plane in a airport. This is the same, just in even bigger scale.

[halfeye]

No. It does not matter whom Cora is. Its still a rather big mistake on her part, to not call her contact first, and get confirmation on if, where and when she can land.
You call in first when you land your plane in a airport. This is the same, just in even bigger scale.

1/ that ship is VTOL, it doesn't need an airport.

2/ I think I've heard of the head of state of small states call ahead to the airport in their country saying "I'm coming in to land now, clear all traffic off the runway".

[Traab]

Guys the bottom line is, cora had directions on where to go to meet with dabbler, she then unilaterally decided "Meh, not worth the effort" when she saw an alien ship openly there. She had no reason to not follow it except for a desire to not put in the effort to sneak in. It has nothing to do with her being secret royalty, or the biggest pirate ever or whatever, its just that, well, look out upon the field where she grows all of the *&^%^& she wants to give. Observe that it currently lies fallow. Its no skin off her nose if earthlings see her, they clearly already know aliens exist. At most she finds this amusing, at worst she is just happy to finish her little fetch quest with only a little insanity dealt with from her tagalong npc.

[Forum Explorer]

Actually no? Harrasment is unwanted attention.
Being who she is, then it has so far only been extreme outliers like Max who disliked her attention.

Besides that, Dabbler just have to many talents, to many skills.
She is a JL grade recruit i whose worth almost eclipses Max's.
I dont think there are any team who would turn her down.
(and thats beside wanting to keep an eye on her)

And Sydney. And the CO of the entire Archon facility. And even likely, Arianna.

You aren't wrong, Dabbler's skills are entirely why they put up with her. Much like why Sydney's powers have put her in the spotlight and keep getting her deployed to places she shouldn't be.

No. It does not matter whom Cora is. Its still a rather big mistake on her part, to not call her contact first, and get confirmation on if, where and when she can land.
You call in first when you land your plane in a airport. This is the same, just in even bigger scale.

And when fighting thugs you shouldn't you a flay-thrower as your first resort. Cora doesn't care about the consequences of just showing up. What are they going to do? Arrest her? Fine her? Attack her? The first two are laughable, and the last suicidal politically, and maybe literally, speaking.

The only possible consequences for her actions is damaging her friendship with Dabbler, who I imagine won't really care either.

So no, it's not a mistake.

[lord_khaine]

And Sydney. And the CO of the entire Archon facility. And even likely, Arianna.

She has not made any direct advances on Sydney.
What the CO disliked were the invasion of privacy in her ability to read what people are turned on by.
We dont know about Arianna.

And when fighting thugs you shouldn't you a flay-thrower as your first resort. Cora doesn't care about the consequences of just showing up. What are they going to do? Arrest her? Fine her? Attack her? The first two are laughable, and the last suicidal politically, and maybe literally, speaking.

The only possible consequences for her actions is damaging her friendship with Dabbler, who I imagine won't really care either.

So no, it's not a mistake.

Yes. And not caring about the consequences of your actions are if anything an even bigger mistake.
Partly because no, she cant know for certain that an attack on her could not blow a hole in her ship.

1/ that ship is VTOL, it doesn't need an airport.

2/ I think I've heard of the head of state of small states call ahead to the airport in their country saying "I'm coming in to land now, clear all traffic off the runway".

1. Does not change anything.
2. Still means they call in. And for that matter, here at least they would be told to wait like everyone else. I guess thats the advantage of living in a democracy.

[halfeye]

Yes. And not caring about the consequences of your actions are if anything an even bigger mistake.
Partly because no, she cant know for certain that an attack on her could not blow a hole in her ship.

Depending on exactly what tech she has, she might know that Earth tech is incapable of harming her ship.

1. Does not change anything.

Changes the need to land on a runway.

2. Still means they call in. And for that matter, here at least they would be told to wait like everyone else. I guess thats the advantage of living in a democracy.

Democracy is one tactic, freedom is the strategic objective.

[Forum Explorer]

She has not made any direct advances on Sydney.
What the CO disliked were the invasion of privacy in her ability to read what people are turned on by.
We dont know about Arianna.



Yes. And not caring about the consequences of your actions are if anything an even bigger mistake.
Partly because no, she cant know for certain that an attack on her could not blow a hole in her ship.

.

Sexual Harassment doesn't necessitate actually advances. Stuff like the 'heating spell' and breathing sexily into Sydney's ear? That's sexual harassment.

Debatable, but it is something that is a lot more then an unwelcome sexual remark, which would be sexual harassment.

Honestly, I'd say anyone who didn't want the lust spell cast on them during Dabbler's entrance was harassed.


It's only a mistake if you suffer consequences, keyword being suffer. As is, Cora has merely taken an unnecessary risk. And not exactly a risky one either. She has what is considered heavy ordinance by her culture attached to her limbs. She could probably take on the US army by herself. Her only worry would be Maxima and Sydney, and oh hey! She just did both of them a massive favor in returning Sydney to Earth.

[lord_khaine]

Depending on exactly what tech she has, she might know that Earth tech is incapable of harming her ship.

Thats definitly the sort of arrogance that gets a hole blown in the side of a ship.
Especially since there is such a thing as supers. And no quality control on who gets assigned Maxima level powers.

Changes the need to land on a runway.

So by this line of reasoning its alright to land your helicopter at the parking lot in the grocery story.
In another country...

There is such a thing as national air space. Calling in ahead is the least one could do.

Democracy is one tactic, freedom is the strategic objective.

I dont call it freedom when a guy gets to do that sort of casual power abuse.

Sexual Harassment doesn't necessitate actually advances. Stuff like the 'heating spell' and breathing sexily into Sydney's ear? That's sexual harassment.

Debatable, but it is something that is a lot more then an unwelcome sexual remark, which would be sexual harassment.

Honestly, I'd say anyone who didn't want the lust spell cast on them during Dabbler's entrance was harassed.

Its again only harrashment if its unwelcome though. Then it becomes flirting.
Else i can see this line of debate is likely a waste of time. Since your clearly comming from a place with far different laws on the subject.

As for the lust spell though, thats kinda debateable. Especially if its something she cast on herself.
I mean, then its suddenly kinda the same thing as wearing a tight blouse or putting on cologne.
And all the other little bits you do to appear attractive.

It's only a mistake if you suffer consequences, keyword being suffer. As is, Cora has merely taken an unnecessary risk. And not exactly a risky one either. She has what is considered heavy ordinance by her culture attached to her limbs. She could probably take on the US army by herself. Her only worry would be Maxima and Sydney, and oh hey! She just did both of them a massive favor in returning Sydney to Earth.

I think its already a mistake by the time you take a significant risk with insignificant gain.
Like.. playing a single round of russian rulette. Lets say your alive after round 1. But was it a mistake that there even were a round 1?
Yes i think so.

[Radar]

It's only a mistake if you suffer consequences, keyword being suffer. As is, Cora has merely taken an unnecessary risk. And not exactly a risky one either. She has what is considered heavy ordinance by her culture attached to her limbs. She could probably take on the US army by herself. Her only worry would be Maxima and Sydney, and oh hey! She just did both of them a massive favor in returning Sydney to Earth.

Consequences are not only of the military kind. Maintaining friendly relations with people, when there was no reason to annoy them, is a sensible thing to do. It is all about diplomacy. Even if she does not care about Earth, then any incident will probably be noticed by other extraterrestials and as such might have an impact on Cora's reputation. As long as the current situation does not escalate, there will be little consequences, but why spoil possible future realations?

[Lamech]

Sexual Harassment doesn't necessitate actually advances. Stuff like the 'heating spell' and breathing sexily into Sydney's ear? That's sexual harassment.

Debatable, but it is something that is a lot more then an unwelcome sexual remark, which would be sexual harassment.

Honestly, I'd say anyone who didn't want the lust spell cast on them during Dabbler's entrance was harassed.

So while from a legal perspective Dabbler isn't really capable of breaking any laws on the basis of not actually being human, and magic is similarly outside the legal code, morally casting mind affecting magic on an unwilling individual would be akin to drugging someone. The antics here also pretty clearly cross the line morally, although not legally because Dabbler is not in fact a human.

I also note that staging bank robberies, especially with live ammunition and unaware civilians, is also pretty clearly evil and all sorts of legally questionable.

All in all, Sydney is far from the least responsible member of Archon.

[Ibrinar]

Consequences are not only of the military kind. Maintaining friendly relations with people, when there was no reason to annoy them, is a sensible thing to do. It is all about diplomacy. Even if she does not care about Earth, then any incident will probably be noticed by other extraterrestials and as such might have an impact on Cora's reputation. As long as the current situation does not escalate, there will be little consequences, but why spoil possible future realations?

Something having dangers and disadvantages does not automatically mean someone made a mistake. If you judge the potential negative outcomes of something correctly and decide to do it anyway that is not a mistake that is deliberately risking some trouble.

[The Glyphstone]

I also note that staging bank robberies, especially with live ammunition and unaware civilians, is also pretty clearly evil and all sorts of legally questionable.

All in all, Sydney is far from the least responsible member of Archon.

Wasn't this brought up in-comic, and pointed out that Maxima's insane reaction speeds meant no one in the bank was ever in the slightest bit of danger even with live ammo, since she could effortlessly snatch bullets out of midair?

[halfeye]

Thats definitly the sort of arrogance that gets a hole blown in the side of a ship.
Especially since there is such a thing as supers. And no quality control on who gets assigned Maxima level powers.

That's why I limited it to tech. However, there are presumably supers in the rest of the galaxy, so she can probably guess about them, not that we know that.

So by this line of reasoning its alright to land your helicopter at the parking lot in the grocery story.
In another country...

Alright? no. If you are the big bad invader/liberator, you can probably get away with it.

There is such a thing as national air space. Calling in ahead is the least one could do.

If you have any respect for regulations, yes, but it looks as if Cora doesn't.

I dont call it freedom when a guy gets to do that sort of casual power abuse.

I wasn't arguing that Cora's freedom came into the morals of this (she is obviously over the top and taking more than is being offered), I was just making a note on the general case that freedom is a lot more important than democracy,

Its again only harrashment if its unwelcome though. Then it becomes flirting.
Else i can see this line of debate is likely a waste of time. Since your clearly comming from a place with far different laws on the subject.

As for the lust spell though, thats kinda debateable. Especially if its something she cast on herself.
I mean, then its suddenly kinda the same thing as wearing a tight blouse or putting on cologne.
And all the other little bits you do to appear attractive.

Groping without prior consent is always wrong.

Tight clothes is one thing, cologne is something else, it actively leaves the wearer and interacts with others at a distance, there can be allergic reactions for instance, so how magic works in this world would affect its morality.

I think its already a mistake by the time you take a significant risk with insignificant gain.
Like.. playing a single round of russian rulette. Lets say your alive after round 1. But was it a mistake that there even were a round 1?
Yes i think so.

Russian roulette is strange to me, I think it would be a stupid error to ever play it, but I don't think the english word "mistake" can apply, a mistake means more or less an accident, intentional russian roulette is not accidental.

[Traab]

Wasn't this brought up in-comic, and pointed out that Maxima's insane reaction speeds meant no one in the bank was ever in the slightest bit of danger even with live ammo, since she could effortlessly snatch bullets out of midair?

Im pretty sure faking crimes is still illegal even if nobody was going to die. Heck, they assaulted sydney! Sure she tongue flipped one onto his head in retaliation after kicking him in the happy sack, that doesnt change the fact that pistol whipping someone then trying to put them in a blood choke isnt legal.

[Ibrinar]

And putting random people into high stress situations where they fear for their lives because you want good PR isn't okay even if they are in no real physical danger.

But it is not like this is a super serious story.

[The Glyphstone]

Im pretty sure faking crimes is still illegal even if nobody was going to die. Heck, they assaulted sydney! Sure she tongue flipped one onto his head in retaliation after kicking him in the happy sack, that doesnt change the fact that pistol whipping someone then trying to put them in a blood choke isnt legal.

It's certainly not legal. But 'clearly evil' seemed a bit much.

[Traab]

Certainly a cynical plan to create buzz for your new superhero group. Because, "The government is forming a superhero group" totally wont get any attention without priming the pump.

[Forum Explorer]

T
Its again only harrashment if its unwelcome though. Then it becomes flirting.
Else i can see this line of debate is likely a waste of time. Since your clearly comming from a place with far different laws on the subject.

As for the lust spell though, thats kinda debateable. Especially if its something she cast on herself.
I mean, then its suddenly kinda the same thing as wearing a tight blouse or putting on cologne.
And all the other little bits you do to appear attractive.



I think its already a mistake by the time you take a significant risk with insignificant gain.
Like.. playing a single round of russian rulette. Lets say your alive after round 1. But was it a mistake that there even were a round 1?
Yes i think so.

Considering Sydney's response was something like 'back off or you'll have two cybernetic eyes', then yes, I'd say it was unwelcome.

Not really? I mean, if I give you a blanket, but it's going to make you masturbate as a consequence and I don't warn you about it? That's pretty clearly sexual harassment and pretty sketchy to boot. I don't care if you've got your own blanket. That's still awful.

First you need to prove its a significant risk. Cora has been in contact with Dabbler. She likely has a pretty good idea of what Earth and the US can and will do. It's a risk sure, but I don't see it as being any riskier than say, not wearing a helmet when riding a bike.

Consequences are not only of the military kind. Maintaining friendly relations with people, when there was no reason to annoy them, is a sensible thing to do. It is all about diplomacy. Even if she does not care about Earth, then any incident will probably be noticed by other extraterrestials and as such might have an impact on Cora's reputation. As long as the current situation does not escalate, there will be little consequences, but why spoil possible future realations?

Her reputation is already that of someone who uses a flay-thrower against thugs, while also being the sort of person who saves space stations. If the brutal overkill of criminals isn't enough to destroy her reputation, than I doubt being reckless during a second contact scenario would really matter either.

So while from a legal perspective Dabbler isn't really capable of breaking any laws on the basis of not actually being human, and magic is similarly outside the legal code, morally casting mind affecting magic on an unwilling individual would be akin to drugging someone. The antics here also pretty clearly cross the line morally, although not legally because Dabbler is not in fact a human.

I also note that staging bank robberies, especially with live ammunition and unaware civilians, is also pretty clearly evil and all sorts of legally questionable.

All in all, Sydney is far from the least responsible member of Archon.

Can you fix your quote? I didn't say that.

Also yes, Dabbler is way worse than Sydney.

Russian roulette is strange to me, I think it would be a stupid error to ever play it, but I don't think the english word "mistake" can apply, a mistake means more or less an accident, intentional russian roulette is not accidental.

'An accident implies no one was to blame' sort of thing?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Wasn't this brought up in-comic, and pointed out that Maxima's insane reaction speeds meant no one in the bank was ever in the slightest bit of danger even with live ammo, since she could effortlessly snatch bullets out of midair?

Half-right. It was when Peggy was giving the lecture on range safety, and someone (Ren?) called Maxima on pointing a gun at Sydney (thus breaking the rules).

[The Glyphstone]

Half-right. It was when Peggy was giving the lecture on range safety, and someone (Ren?) called Maxima on pointing a gun at Sydney (thus breaking the rules).

Yeah, that was what I was thinking of, though for some reason I had Arianna doing the objecting.

[Traab]

Cora is very much so a john shepard expy "irl" She is a space traveling, hard combat fighting, station saving hero like every one of those rpg protagonist types, but she doesnt fight with kid gloves. If you ever played the fps style games, i doubt very much you refused to use your best ordinance because it was excessive. You clear cut your way through the bad guys, whoever they happened to be, with the best (read most powerful) gear you could unleash unless you had a very specific reason not to. Heck, I was just playing my way through modern warfare 3. The first mission you have a regular gun and you have a gun that fires large explosives. Gee, i wonder which one I kept going for? Yup, im explosive blasting my way through the bad guys in manhatten sending them flying all over the place. Even the hedonism is just turned up a bit considering you are able to have sex with basically any member of your crew in mass effect if you put in the effort to do so. What we are getting is the outsiders view of said protagonist. Im half surprised we havent caught her rummaging through random boxes on her way to the building just to see what she can take.

[halfeye]

'An accident implies no one was to blame' sort of thing?

Except through negligence, which can mean considerable liability in law, I think that's correct (I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, et cetera).

[Onyavar]

Guys the bottom line is, cora had directions on where to go to meet with dabbler, she then unilaterally decided "Meh, not worth the effort" when she saw an alien ship openly there. She had no reason to not follow it except for a desire to not put in the effort to sneak in. It has nothing to do with her being secret royalty, or the biggest pirate ever or whatever, its just that, well, look out upon the field where she grows all of the *&^%^& she wants to give. Observe that it currently lies fallow. Its no skin off her nose if earthlings see her, they clearly already know aliens exist. At most she finds this amusing, at worst she is just happy to finish her little fetch quest with only a little insanity dealt with from her tagalong npc.

And not only this, Sydney HAS been introduced into the veil and into the MiB/Alien conspiracy. And she has been told to keep both a secret. So, once she learned that one alien spaceship has officially showed up in Africa, she should have known that the government of her country expects her to be circumspect with casually introducing additional species to the public/media right after the first contact event hasn't even been digested by the media.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Oh, look, it's locker room shenanigans without being in the locker room.

Cora's probably going to be some kind of test for Math.