My Little Pony XCIX: Leakier Than A Changeling Bathtub!

[zimmerwald1915]

Of course, it does, the conclusion is obvious.

Why did the writers make the villain look like a small child?

To make the people watching the show think that the villain is a small child.

Or they could have simply written a small child, and the headcanon about her being an adult is just that?

[Rater202]

Or they could have simply written a small child, and the headcanon about her being an adult is just that?

What makes more sense?

That the character who is explicitly based on a character who is an adult that looks like a small child, who attends a school that is otherwise exclusivly attended by young adults(and not the school for children in the same town,) and who acts in a manner not unlike an adult and who was treated like an adult when their evil schemes are foiled is an adult who only looks like a small child?

Or that Twilight Sparkle inexplicably admitted a small child to her University and only the one small child and then later the Princesses inexplicably senteneced the small child like an adult?

[zimmerwald1915]

What makes more sense?

That the character who is explicitly based on a character who is an adult that looks like a small child, who attends a school that is otherwise exclusivly attended by young adults(and not the school for children in the same town,) and who acts in a manner not unlike an adult and who was treated like an adult when their evil schemes are foiled is an adult who only looks like a small child?

Or that Twilight Sparkle inexplicably admitted a small child to her University and only the one small child and then later the Princesses inexplicably senteneced the small child like an adult?

The latter, when not framed in dubious and untrue terms (TSSF never sold itself as a university).

[Rater202]

The latter, when not framed in dubious and untrue terms (TSSF never sold itself as a university).

What else do you call a school that provides additional education to young adults exclusively?

If I reform the statement into "Twilight inexplicably letting a small child and only the one small into her school that otherwise caters exclusivly to young adults?"

Cozy acts like an adult, is treated like an adult, attends a school that otherwise is only attended by adults, and is explicitly based on a character who was an adult who only looked like a child.

The simplest answer is that Cozy is an adult who just happens to look like a child.

The alternative, that Cozy is an adult, requires a large percentage of the cast--the Princesses and Twilights friends, to inexplicably allow a student who is far too young to be attending the Friendship School, which, again, is otherwise attended only by young adults and even had an episode showcasing that small children werren't among the student body, which either means that Twilight randomly made an exception adn only one exception for no given reason or that the School doesn't have an age requirement and then the Crusaders not being able to enroll becoems a plot hole.

What's the simplest solution, the one that requires our heroes to stupidly arbitrary and/or needlessly cruel or else triggers a huge plothole or the one where characters who are not depicted as stupid are not, in fact, stupid and there's no plothole?

I'll take the one where nobody is randomly arbitrary and there are no plotholes.

[zimmerwald1915]

What else do you call a school that provides additional education to young adults exclusively?

Any number of things. I'd call TSSF something like a yeshiva. Also, assuming the conclusion again. TSSF, in your view, provides education only to adults, therefore every student must be an adult. But that doesn't jive with what we are shown. The season's gimmick characters are the "young six." The reason the CMC couldn't enroll was because they had "mastered the curriculum," not because they were too young.

Cozy acts like an adult, is treated like an adult, attends a school that otherwise is only attended by adults, and is explicitly based on a character who was an adult who only looked like a child.

The simplest answer is that Cozy is an adult who just happens to look like a child.

The simplest answer is that Cozy is as she seems, a small child.

The alternative, that Cozy is an adult, requires a large percentage of the cast--the Princesses and Twilights friends, to inexplicably allow a student who is far too young to be attending the Friendship School

This is never established. At least one of the other students (a fan OC, at that!) has a filly body model and is not suggested to be anything other than what she seems.

What's the simplest solution, the one that requires our heroes to stupidly arbitrary and/or needlessly cruel or else triggers a huge plothole or the one where characters who are not depicted as stupid are not, in fact, stupid and there's no plothole?

In a season full of "our heroes" acting more stupidly than they ever have, in order to enable several hole-riddled plots, one more such instance does not stand out. It would be stranger if everything tied together nicely and actually justified their behavior, rather than having them get off without consequences because they're the protagonists.

[keybounce]

Yum, fimfic

nom nom nom nom nom nom nom

so far: Number 12 (Great! Felt like a perfect traslation of the 11th doctor into a pony regeneration), The Writing on the Wall, The Celestia Code / The Luna Cypher (first was more entertaining than the second, but in fairness that's because I was less interested in the primary shipping of the second one), and a bunch of shorts that I didn't bother to download.

Nom Nom Nom Nom Nom

In progress: Twilight Enigma, Changeling of the Guard, Social Safety Net, and Hard Reset

NOM NOM NOM

Enchanted Library has been downloaded onto my kindle, but not started yet.
And, I need to get the sequels to Number 12 -- this is a well-done Dr. Whooves.

[Spamotron]

When it comes to ponyfic recommendations a great and hilarious but lesser known series is The Flash Sentry Papers by Tumbleweed. Starting with The Prisoner of Zebra. They're a tribute to The Flashman Papers. RPG and Wargame nerds are probably more familiar with the Ciaphas Cain novels of Warhammer 40k which were also inspired by The Flashman Papers.

[Thanqol]

And as for people who I can talk to about a certain topic, but without having to be very close, like Rainbow Dash can with Pinkie or Twilight or Applejack or Spitfire or Quibble Pants, I must say that the internet has helped me a lot to find such people.

This was a great discussion. I think it also identifies why I like the fanfiction Austraeoh so much.

It's a story about vast, crushing loneliness. But whenever Rainbow reaches a community her old personality just clicks into place. But the way the writer approaches it is from such a... distance. Like, when she's alone, we're always in her thoughts, but when she's with other people there's absolutely no explanation given for anything she does - it's all just instinct, instinct, reactions. The dialogue feels fake but that's because she's faking it whenever she opens her mouth.

It's endlessly fascinating from a technical perspective. It does so much to fill the mood of the story.

[DigoDragon]

As for the fate of the villain. I suppose if I over thought it the prison is a bit harsh. Even zoo's are held to higher comfort standards. But no... she belongs imprisoned. Maybe not there... next to her co-conspirator. But somewhere and for some time.

But that's just it. Cozy is locked up in Tartarus with her mentor/pen pal.

And that latter adjective bothers me more. How were they keeping in touch? Who's delivering mail to Tartarus?

The simplest answer is that Cozy is as she seems, a small child.

Yeah, the idea that cozy is an adult stuck in a child body is more headcanon than show proper.

[Aotrs Commander]

Yeah, the idea that cozy is an adult stuck in a child body is more headcanon than show proper.

Until the show explictly rells us one way or another, I believe the opposite is true, myself.

[Braininthejar2]

I started preparing for an Exalted campaign... and now all the major freakouts in MLP seem like expressions of the Great Curse.

[Pi Pie]

Nightmare Night is coming up soon for those of us who celebrate said holiday. Is anyone doing anything fun?

I am planning to carve a pumpkin in some pony theme, probably Celestia raising the sun this year.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Probably nothing. It's in the middle of the week this year, so you're either going really early, really late, or fighting all the other commitments people have.

[Adderbane]

This was a great discussion. I think it also identifies why I like the fanfiction Austraeoh so much.

It's a story about vast, crushing loneliness. But whenever Rainbow reaches a community her old personality just clicks into place. But the way the writer approaches it is from such a... distance. Like, when she's alone, we're always in her thoughts, but when she's with other people there's absolutely no explanation given for anything she does - it's all just instinct, instinct, reactions. The dialogue feels fake but that's because she's faking it whenever she opens her mouth.

It's endlessly fascinating from a technical perspective. It does so much to fill the mood of the story.

I think Rainbow might be the best developed of the mane 6.

I couldn't get into Austraeoh...it was beautifully written, but the loneliness got to me...

[Thanqol]

I think Rainbow might be the best developed of the mane 6.

I couldn't get into Austraeoh...it was beautifully written, but the loneliness got to me...

I just finished Austraeoh - the first part at least. It's a hell of a story and I recommend giving it another shot.

It reads like a NaNoWriMo project. It's rushed - there are uncorrected typos, inelegant word choice, clearly in need of an editing pass - but I think it's curiously stronger for not having one. Everything in the writing bends towards that constant eastwards pressure. Like the author never looked backwards for a second. And given the timeframe it was written in I think that might actually be the case.

As a story, I loved it. I think it's my favourite ponyfic since Equestria From Dust. I know it's a monumental billion-word monolith but at the end of this first part of the story I feel like I really am on a journey to the end of the world. Never before has travel in a story felt so... immense. A world vast, and filled with wonders.

[DigoDragon]

Nightmare Night is coming up soon for those of us who celebrate said holiday. Is anyone doing anything fun?

No, just driving my wife and daughter to one of the neighborhoods to do the door-to-door trick or treating thing.

[Aotrs Commander]

Guh. So desparately short of "cleaning front room telly" - especially since if I don't fraggging re-hang the curtains, no-one will - that I ended up seeing if I could find anything even remotely watchable on Netflix and ended up trying One Punch Man.

It's mildly amusing.



Finally got something that looks like a vaguely passable photo of the GLA terrorists...

Spoiler: GLA Terrorists

Show

Mmm. Not hugely convinced. Think they might need to be commerically printed, they're a bit manky and doesn't look hugely like the demo things showed up ever so well.

[Pi Pie]

Guh. So desparately short of "cleaning front room telly" - especially since if I don't fraggging re-hang the curtains, no-one will - that I ended up seeing if I could find anything even remotely watchable on Netflix and ended up trying One Punch Man.

It's mildly amusing.



Finally got something that looks like a vaguely passable photo of the GLA terrorists...

Spoiler: GLA Terrorists

Show

Mmm. Not hugely convinced. Think they might need to be commerically printed, they're a bit manky and doesn't look hugely like the demo things showed up ever so well.

Agreed that the printing is a bit rough. If I know what I am looking for, I can make out the details, but it would be difficult to figure out otherwise.

A flat primer and then final painting will of course help, but professional printing may be the best bet.

[Aotrs Commander]

So Virgin's birthday present to me was completely wiping out net and telly access about midnight last night while they were "improving the service," which left with with basically nothing to do, watch or read before meditation time. Hopefully the rest of the actual birthday goes better...

(But at leasst this year I don't have an appointment with the morons and am having the dining room carpet replaced like that one time...)

Agreed that the printing is a bit rough. If I know what I am looking for, I can make out the details, but it would be difficult to figure out otherwise.

A flat primer and then final painting will of course help, but professional printing may be the best bet.

I had a slight redesign, and changed it to three sticks twice the thickness. And actually remembered - because it's my birthday and and thus I don't have to get distracted by having a list of work jobs to do - I managed to take a better picture.

Spoiler

Show

More betterer, as Grimlock would say - but the rule is still sadly "print one at a time" so I think I will have them done commerically, because I don't fancy printing the 40-odd infantry (not just the terrorists but the regulars) and if I go to i-imaterialise, I can probably get twice that for about £20 with postage (40 is still at their minimum).

[keybounce]

So I've been reading the first sequel to number 12, and ... I'm losing the "this is good!" vibe from it.

Basically, the issue is the treatment of Twilight.

I can understand the first episode -- she was completely overwhelmed, lost her magic, lost any ability to take action, was confronted by things that had the potential to cause her effectively permanent banishment, and she freaked. Fine.

Once.

The second time around? It's no longer going to catch her by surprise.
And, she is well known around Ponyville/Canterlot.

To be presented as someone that wasn't known to the general population after saving Equestira multiple times / heroine ceremonies / talk of the newspapers? And still operating as a "Just follow the doctor around"?

... Should have gotten a no-name generic pony.

And now I see why other authors have either used Derpy, or Rose.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, s'not been a bad birthday at all. Did a walk this afternoon, got the last couple of Asterix books that I hadn't yet got, the first couple of DVDs of Dragonball Super (for when I've caught up with Naruto); also chocolate. And spent much of the rest of the the day reading more A Practical Guide to Evil (ince i was denied last night) and coming to the conclusion Catherine Foundling, may, in fact be the Actual Best. (Jubilee ought to be getting worried.) Whereas while I like Jubilee, if we ever met we would not, I fear get along very well, I would like to hazard Catherine and I would get along like a house on goblinfire. A villain, Evil protagonist who is motivated, sure by some sense of "make this right or at least organised" who might have been a Hero in other circumstances, but chose to be Evil. Not just once, but more than once. Like, proper chose.

Seriously, I'm a little concerned that he's going to start generating little blood-dripping antomically-correct hearts whenever she does something cool. And he's NEVER done that for anyone before...

And the Calamities in that story - the legendary villain-protagonist-older-generation - remind me oh so very much of the sort or rapport Lord Death Despoil and the high command share, it's kind of scary. Hell, the Dread Empire and the Legions of Terror could nearly be the Aotrs in a very early stage!



Doesn't get more civilised than this.

[zimmerwald1915]

So I've been reading the first sequel to number 12, and ... I'm losing the "this is good!" vibe from it.

Basically, the issue is the treatment of Twilight.

I can understand the first episode -- she was completely overwhelmed, lost her magic, lost any ability to take action, was confronted by things that had the potential to cause her effectively permanent banishment, and she freaked. Fine.

Once.

The second time around? It's no longer going to catch her by surprise.
And, she is well known around Ponyville/Canterlot.

To be presented as someone that wasn't known to the general population after saving Equestira multiple times / heroine ceremonies / talk of the newspapers? And still operating as a "Just follow the doctor around"?

... Should have gotten a no-name generic pony.

And now I see why other authors have either used Derpy, or Rose.

I see little difference between this and how she acts and is treated in the show

[Pi Pie]

What was the interaction between the ponies and other species in the past?

There was some interaction with the dragons since Flash Magnus was flying through the dragon lands when he became a hero. And that would predate the Discord era.

Luna does not seem surprised by any of the other species, so there may have been some interaction in the time frame between the 3 tribes and Nightmare Moon. For example, in the My Little Pony movie, Luna knows to head to the Hippogriff empire even though the empire had not existed in modern times since it was in hiding from the Storm King.

However, there seems to be little relations with most of the species until the Mane 6 arrive on the scene, see for example buffalo, yaks, griffons, dragons, hippogriffs, etc.

Was this because ponies were terrible at making friends before the Mane 6? Culd Discord have caused some of these problems? Or did Celestia close the borders after Nightmare Moon and turn the ponies' focus inwards?

<Of course the real reason is because of writers, but we can ignore that.>

[Rogar Demonblud]

Simplest explanation is that with only one princess, Equestria was kind of limited in diplomatic outreach. Once you get princess-candidate Twilight on the scene, things start to get shaken up, but even with Luna coming back and Cadence coming from...somewhere (I can never remember), it was still a barely thawed freeze out until Twilight actually got the freaking tiara. Not sure if the bison count since they're actually in Equestria.

Showing the uselessness of Canterlot, really. First the Royal Guard can't guard anything and then nopony thinks to establish a diplomatic corps.

[DeadMech]

I think it's safe to say that before Twilight and Spike there wasn't much positive interaction between dragons and ponies. Or at the very least the negative interactions greatly outweighed them. I'd imagine that in the past Celestia and Luna were powerful enough to drive back any dragon aggression once made aware of it. Meanwhile the average dragon is powerful enough to cause quite a bit of harm to the average stray pony. So they likely stayed separate to avoid outright conflict.

Most of the other species with the possible exception of hippogriffs also seemed to have varying degrees of hostility to ponies. It looks like most of that is possibly cultural. If I had to guess way back in time when earth ponies, pegasi,and unicorns formed a single nation and along with the emergence of alicorns, ponies quickly grew to become a world superpower that the other groups viewed as infringing on their own way of life and possibly threatening.

Maintaining some level of trade and diplomacy would have been important but mostly everyone just keeps to their own corners so as not to provoke international incidents. The ponies may not know much about the other cultures but they are at least aware of and in contact with them.

[zimmerwald1915]

Most of the other species with the possible exception of hippogriffs also seemed to have varying degrees of hostility to ponies. It looks like most of that is possibly cultural. If I had to guess way back in time when earth ponies, pegasi,and unicorns formed a single nation and along with the emergence of alicorns, ponies quickly grew to become a world superpower that the other groups viewed as infringing on their own way of life and possibly threatening.

No group was ever motivated to hatred merely by a perception that another group threatened their "way of life" on a cultural level. They're moved by material grievances, or the (possibly imagined) threat of such: of stolen lands, people killed in wars, and plundered capital goods. The desctruction of a culture and way of life is a corroloary to the destruction (by conquest, plunder, and/or assimilation) of a country.

We've seen ponies conquer non-ponies' lands, at least twice. Once in the present of the show, in Bridle Gossip. We can infer that the "Griffish Isles" named on the map were actually under griffon sovereignty at one point, and we can likewise infer from the presence of Trottingham (Pipsqueak's home town) that they are no longer. We can likewise infer that it was this war of conquest that led to Griffon Stone's peonage, and that the myth of the kingdom's fall is just that, a myth. Probably started by the conquerors.

It's not just buffalo among the bovines who get the shaft in Equestria. The yaks we're pushed to a marginal territory even when the Crystal Empire was gone. You'd think that would get them expand, but no. And cattle are kept as. . . something. Probably slaves, if Spike's status is anything to go by. Ancient racial hatreds crop up in insults. A pony calling someone cloven-hooved is akin to me calling someone forked-tongued.

Equestria's only notable foreign allies, before The Movie, were the horse-hindquartered hippogriffs. And it seemed that relationship was one-sided, with the Equestrians expecting their aid even having provided none in the hippogriffs' hour of need. True, the hippogriffs didn't ask for any, but that was probably in the expectation that the ponies would not provide. A justified expectation.

It's clear that the animus against Equestria was quite well-deserved.

[Rater202]

We've seen ponies conquer non-ponies' lands, at least twice. Once in the present of the show, in Bridle Gossip.

Explain.

that the myth of the kingdom's fall is just that, a myth. Probably started by the conquerors.

Don't we see that the idle exists? Regardless, "this myth is just a myth" is never a fair assumptions to make in a setting where every other established myth turns out to be true and the setting in general is one with magic and legendary creatures as a matter of every day life.

The yaks we're pushed to a marginal territory even when the Crystal Empire was gone.

Cite where the Ponies forced the Yaks to live in Yakyakistan.

but that was probably in the expectation that the ponies would not provide. A justified expectation.

Your excessively pessimistic fanon is showing.

[zimmerwald1915]

Explain.

Ponies moved into an area, appropriated the land for their own use, had a splendid little war with the indegenats when the latter defended their rights, and resolved the war by carving out an easement/reservation while keeping most of the land for themselves. It's straight-out, classic colonial conquest.

Don't we see that the idle exists?

Just because the idol exists doesn't mean the stories surrounding it are true. What is true is that the Griffish Isles exist, and play host to a pony colony.

Cite where the Ponies forced the Yaks to live in Yakyakistan.

They had a military outpost at the site of the Crystal Empire for a thousand years. You don't do that just on the off chance that the curse that banished it would be lifted one day. You need a practical reason to justify the expense.

Your excessively pessimistic fanon is showing.

Words on the page.

[Forum Explorer]

Ponies moved into an area, appropriated the land for their own use, had a splendid little war with the indegenats when the latter defended their rights, and resolved the war by carving out an easement/reservation while keeping most of the land for themselves. It's straight-out, classic colonial conquest.


Just because the idol exists doesn't mean the stories surrounding it are true. What is true is that the Griffish Isles exist, and play host to a pony colony.


They had a military outpost at the site of the Crystal Empire for a thousand years. You don't do that just on the off chance that the curse that banished it would be lifted one day. You need a practical reason to justify the expense.


Words on the page.

I think you've got your episodes mixed up. Bridle Gossip is the one where they meet Zecora for the first time.


Yes, but when literally every single myth in the show is proven to be true, the assumption would be that this myth would be true as well. Seriously, can you think of a single time when the myth is false?


That doesn't prove anything about forcing the Yaks to stay in Yakyakistan.

Also that's a very practical reason. Seriously, imagine the mess that would happen if someone had built a new city where the Crystal Empire used to be, and then it returned. Plus, it seemed Celestia knew that it would be returned one day.

[zimmerwald1915]

I think you've got your episodes mixed up. Bridle Gossip is the one where they meet Zecora for the first time.

Over a Barrel. Whatever.