Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

[Lvl 2 Expert]

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Wonder if he's just buying time for the golem to run out?

Could be. But that was going to happen pretty soon anyway. Best case scenario he made a charge attack on turn one, full attack/good ol' stomping on turn two and a skull ripping power attack or something in turn 3. The golem is going to freeze in that threatening pose (unless talking really is a free action, but that's more OOTS territory).

As to what Kore is...

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It was hinted at that Kore's curse could be very similar to that on the Axe of Prissan. That could mean Kore can pretty much only be destroyed/killed by committing too many evil acts, or too few good ones. This might also explain why he doesn't fall from random slaughter, his paladinhood is considered an integral part of his being, and his being can only be destroyed by the terms of the curse. However, I do not know how to rhyme this with him doing all the random slaughtering without it triggering the curse. Maybe Kore and the axe are actually two sides of the same magic item? The axe is the trigger, Kore is the door. Commit too much evil with the axe, Kore will explode and release the demons. This way Kore committing evil acts is not relevant to the curse unless he's in possession of the Axe of Prissan. However, this still doesn't give him a reason to have a head full of cursed souls slaved to his being as symbolized by the head chaining effect on his IME and a means access the speak with dead spell that we can see now is clearly meant to let him or others interact with the souls he collects. So at the very least my guess is very much incomplete.

[Vinyadan]

That's exactly what happened (gender change, that is) -- Tarol "Thunt" Stephens revealed/came out this year that they were transgender and transitioning their name to Ellipsis Hana Stephens. It's been referenced in-thread so I'm sure people assumed everyone in-conversation was aware (not really how these threads work, but not an unreasonable assumption either).

Edit: honestly it's rather refreshing for someone not to know anything about the author, given how often Questionable Content/Dominic Deegan/Sinfest/Ctrl_Alt_Del/etc. discussions tend to devolve into referendums on the author.

To be honest, I am surprised by how much better the comic feels since the change. Maybe it's because some very rocky parts in the writing are gone by now (the MinMax-Fumbles interactions felt forced, Bowst too, Forgath's suicide and Bunny's curse were obviously ugly to look at, the room of doubles was easily identifiable from the start and created a point where the reader was waiting for the characters to find out what he already knew, there were some serious walls of text). But now it feels a lot more relaxed and enjoyable. Update frequency also obviously helps a lot.

[Traab]

Im thinking Kore IS an axe of prissan, in that he is somehow the prison/back door to this demon god. He may even be a vessel. In a story I read based off of marvel we had a bad guy with the Darkhold book. It started off fine, as it usually does. Powerful sorcerer, no issues using its magic. Then he started hearing whispers. Easy to ignore, no big deal, then he got hurt and the whispers grew louder. And louder. It grew to a struggle to ignore them and then he got into a fight where he was hurt bad and pressed hard so was forced to draw deeper on the darkholds magic until eventually cthon, dark god of chaos and black magic ( I think) took him over, using him as a vessel.

Im wondering if that is happening here. Kore is being overtaken bit by bit, molded into a vessel for this evil demon god thing. All these souls he has are there to provide the spark, the first meal of this demon when it arrives, and he has slowly been losing control. It couldnt survive in a mortal shell, but kore is no longer a mortal shell, is he? Mortal shells dont lose half their skulls then take a break from fighting for a chat. Mortal shells dont glow with an incredibly powerful light from within their hollow body. He is a bridge similar to what the axe breaking caused, where the plane is being transformed into a close enough version of hell to allow him to step through only its internal to kores body.

[Fyraltari]

Personally I’m more impressed by his ability to find the right pill among hundreds.

[Agi Hammerthief]

Personally I’m more impressed by his ability to find the right pill among hundreds.

that might just be a material component

[deuterio12]

Im wondering if that is happening here. Kore is being overtaken bit by bit, molded into a vessel for this evil demon god thing. All these souls he has are there to provide the spark, the first meal of this demon when it arrives, and he has slowly been losing control. It couldnt survive in a mortal shell, but kore is no longer a mortal shell, is he? Mortal shells dont lose half their skulls then take a break from fighting for a chat.

Captain goblinslayer got impaled right through his chest by a huge stake then took a break from fighting for a chat.

High HP is just that good, you can take damage that would kill lesser beings multiple times and keep going.

Mortal shells dont glow with an incredibly powerful light from within their hollow body.

Meh, even puny goblins have glowing eyes, and if somebody should be glowing even brighter it's a paladin for sure.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

that might just be a material component

It indeed looks like he picked the soul of chief off of his head, and the used a pill to animate it. They seem to be the same pills that he used way back to speak to dead with Young and Beautiful (the old teller), so it seems that those are just his speak with dead pills, not his souls.

[Vinyadan]

Actually, why are the eyes of Ears glowing? I never really noticed until now.

[Keltest]

Actually, why are the eyes of Ears glowing? I never really noticed until now.

I assume it is because of his paladin powers. It started when he claimed the Axe of Prissan and turned on its armor. Theoretically, he's still linked, so it could be that.

[Vinyadan]

I assume it is because of his paladin powers. It started when he claimed the Axe of Prissan and turned on its armor. Theoretically, he's still linked, so it could be that.

Right, right, he isn't using it, but he still has his claim.

[Anarchic Fox]

I like how this really captures that Fumbles isn't an idiot. He showed that somewhat during his 'fake out' when he proved himself able to be a Teller.
Also, just really awesome.

Yeah, I think Fumbles actually has decent Intelligence, but catastrophic Dexterity. But growing up as a complete klutz made everyone around him think he's an idiot, until he came to believe that himself. He's had several intelligent ideas by this point, most notably taking class levels.

Also, he glows from within. If I had to guess, he's actually a portal straight to Hell. And that's actual hellfire lighting him up from the inside. And that makes me think he's not going to die, yet. And yet I'm slightly hazy on how he, or the goblins, can escape from this. But still this feels like .. the time for the big reveal. What he really is, and why. Or something. And then the goblins work out how to defeat him, and then next time, he's killed for good.

That's a good point! Kore being a living portal to hell could solve the problem of how the GAP can get the Axe of Prissan back into hell.

[Vinyadan]

Fumbles also solved the gate riddle with the key, now that I think about it.

[Traab]

Fumbles also solved the gate riddle with the key, now that I think about it.

And that was when he was still in so much trauma from his torture he couldnt even talk yet.

[Fyraltari]

Captain goblinslayer got impaled right through his chest by a huge stake then took a break from fighting for a chat.

High HP is just that good, you can take damage that would kill lesser beings multiple times and keep going..

Kore is more than a thousand years old and missing a big part of his head. I think it’s fair to say that he’s immortal.

[deuterio12]

Kore is more than a thousand years old and missing a big part of his head. I think it’s fair to say that he’s immortal.

On the contrary, that head isn't regenerating (like, say, that Balor that got Minmax's oblivious sword to the face), so the goblins just need to keep dropping Kore's HP to finish him for good. Kore's hit points pretty bloated thanks to his high level, but he bleeds, he takes clear damage, so eventually his life counter will reach zero.

[Traab]

On the contrary, that head isn't regenerating (like, say, that Balor that got Minmax's oblivious sword to the face), so the goblins just need to keep dropping Kore's HP to finish him for good. Kore's hit points pretty bloated thanks to his high level, but he bleeds, he takes clear damage, so eventually his life counter will reach zero.

With their luck it would end with kore turning into a being of energy orbited by the chunks of his previous mortal body. Like an even scarier demilich.

[Fyraltari]

It indeed looks like he picked the soul of chief off of his head, and the used a pill to animate it. They seem to be the same pills that he used way back to speak to dead with Young and Beautiful (the old teller), so it seems that those are just his speak with dead pills, not his souls.

Are you sure, his hand seems in front of his head rather than besides it. It looks like he's cracking the pill.

On the contrary, that head isn't regenerating (like, say, that Balor that got Minmax's oblivious sword to the face), so the goblins just need to keep dropping Kore's HP to finish him for good. Kore's hit points pretty bloated thanks to his high level, but he bleeds, he takes clear damage, so eventually his life counter will reach zero.

With their luck it would end with kore turning into a being of energy orbited by the chunks of his previous mortal body. Like an even scarier demilich.

That would be my guess as well. I also think he would just reform his head over time out of the smaller heads of his victims. Then again he got his last sentence out without wheezing so he may have a regeneration power, but a slowish one.

[Kaptin Keen]

that head isn't regenerating

Currently. And what he has inside isn't blood, it's .. light? Destroying his body is definitely not a way to kill him. He still speaks, and his entire skull is broken, and we can look straight inside him - there are no lungs in there. He is zero percent dwarf, and 100% something else.

I'd also say he's 0% paladin, and 100% something else .... but that's not a can of worms I'm willing to open.

If I had to guess? Those .. shards he has, his little tin box of souls or whatever they are? He's at the bottom. Kore's own soul was the first. Someone, in Hell, is laughing their ass off at this former paladin, who still thinks he's alive, still thinks he's fighting evil, still thinks he's a paladin, still thinks his God grants him power - while in reality he's a puppet working for the ... prince of evil. Or some such.

But back to his physical form, it's interesting. As you say, he isn't regenerating. Maybe he just never lost a fight before? Or, when he does grow back, he invests some of all those souls, and they grow into new ... stuff. And that's why he's covered in .. mouths. And stuff.

I dunno. This guessing game isn't for me. I'm waiting for Ellie to let us know what's what =)

[Cygnia]

GM avatar maybe?

[Lissou]

He didn't pick the soul off his body, he mentioned it out loud when cracking the pill.

[deuterio12]

Currently. And what he has inside isn't blood, it's .. light? Destroying his body is definitely not a way to kill him. He still speaks, and his entire skull is broken, and we can look straight inside him - there are no lungs in there. He is zero percent dwarf, and 100% something else.

Kore still bled when stabbed on the neck (and his speech got considerably impaired when he got his rope stuck there too), so there's still plenty of regular squishy bits below the fancy skull.

Plus the racist axe considered Kore dwarf enough.

[Draconi Redfir]

If I had to guess? Those .. shards he has, his little tin box of souls or whatever they are? He's at the bottom. Kore's own soul was the first.

pretty sure that's just a component pouch for speak-with-dead. not pill-sized souls

[Kaptin Keen]

Kore still bled when stabbed on the neck (and his speech got considerably impaired when he got his rope stuck there too), so there's still plenty of regular squishy bits below the fancy skull.

Plus the racist axe considered Kore dwarf enough.

Sure. But zero percent of dwarves have a burning light in their insides. Zero percent of dwarves have random mouths all over their outsides. Kore is not a dwarf. Consider life to be a river, then Kore may be a dwarf to the racist axe, because he's the same essential being that once was a dwarf. But by simply looking at what makes dwarves dwarves, and what makes Kore Kore ... it's hard to attach any kind of logic to a claim that Kore is a dwarf.

pretty sure that's just a component pouch for speak-with-dead. not pill-sized souls

I did say 'or whatever that is', right? I don't know, and don't particularly care. He used it to conjure Young and Beautiful. Maybe it's white snuff he uses as a material component for speak with dead. Maybe it's a fragment of her skull that he kept because he's Kore and that's what he does. Maybe it's her actual, compressed and destilled soul. I don't really care, because I'm not interest in the D&D equivalents - I follow the narrative. I don't give a hoot whether Kore is a paladin either, though if someone asks I might offer an opinion on it.

[deuterio12]

Sure. But zero percent of dwarves have a burning light in their insides. Zero percent of dwarves have random mouths all over their outsides. Kore is not a dwarf. Consider life to be a river, then Kore may be a dwarf to the racist axe, because he's the same essential being that once was a dwarf. But by simply looking at what makes dwarves dwarves, and what makes Kore Kore ... it's hard to attach any kind of logic to a claim that Kore is a dwarf.

How many goblins have 3/12th of every class and float around with a mustache and glowing bits? Is Senior Vorpal Kickasso not a goblin anymore?

How many dwarves have transparent indestructible beards? Was Forgath a not-dwarf when fighting Kore in the bridge?

Kore is still short and slow and tough and has a beard and handles heavy armor and axes pretty well, there's still plenty of dwarf in him even if he picked some extra weird effects over his life just like Forgath picked a transparent indestructible beard.

Or that other dwarf that ended up like some antropomorphic bunny but still counted as a dwarf for prophecies and dwarf-only poison.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

In the terms of the game this comic is still based on there are a lot of creatures with templates applied to them among the important characters. Kore's template or templates don't seem to have changed his official creature type, making him still count as a humanoid and a dwarf. Idle's curses don't seem like a big enough change to change her creature type either. That's usually reserved for permanent changes, not something remove curse could handle. Forgath's recent transformation may be a different matter.


Ooooor maybe people in this world just really appreciate their origins and it's all fluff.

[Vinyadan]

Or that other dwarf that ended up like some antropomorphic bunny but still counted as a dwarf for prophecies and dwarf-only poison.

And now we find out that Kore is just some random guy who did the same dungeon crawl as Bunny, but got all of the good curses and a few really bad ones.

[deuterio12]

Goblinsverse just seems filled with effects that drastically change adventurers physically.

Like captain goblinslayer ended up as some half-tree man but no other human in the city seemed to mind that.

Or evil psion minmax with those weird arms.

Dies Horribly on his second special arm.

[BarakDeathBlade]

How many goblins have 3/12th of every class and float around with a mustache and glowing bits? Is Senior Vorpal Kickasso not a goblin anymore?

How many dwarves have transparent indestructible beards? Was Forgath a not-dwarf when fighting Kore in the bridge?

Kore is still short and slow and tough and has a beard and handles heavy armor and axes pretty well, there's still plenty of dwarf in him even if he picked some extra weird effects over his life just like Forgath picked a transparent indestructible beard.

Or that other dwarf that ended up like some antropomorphic bunny but still counted as a dwarf for prophecies and dwarf-only poison.

I'm going with Kore is a dwarf, with a cursed to all heck template added. One that, I suspect, makes "vampire" or "lich" templates look downright vanilla. But his base character is still a dwarf.

Was Durkula not a dwarf because he was a vampire?

[deuterio12]

I'm going with Kore is a dwarf, with a cursed to all heck template added. One that, I suspect, makes "vampire" or "lich" templates look downright vanilla.

Whot? Liches can actually regenerate their bodies, paralyze with their touch, lost all squishy bits (no bleeding from anywhere anymore that's for sure) and can take massive damage and keep going and a bunch of other extras.

Vampires get a giant list of special powers and vulnerabilities.

Kore has... Some glowing bits. And can tank some damage. But still has skin and flesh and bleeds from the neck and whatnot. He still fights with plain axes and crossbows and paladin powers.

But his base character is still a dwarf.
Was Durkula not a dwarf because he was a vampire?

Dwarf enough to go through the racist magic barrier.

[Kaptin Keen]

How many goblins have 3/12th of every class and float around with a mustache and glowing bits? Is Senior Vorpal Kickasso not a goblin anymore?

How many dwarves have transparent indestructible beards? Was Forgath a not-dwarf when fighting Kore in the bridge?

Kore is still short and slow and tough and has a beard and handles heavy armor and axes pretty well, there's still plenty of dwarf in him even if he picked some extra weird effects over his life just like Forgath picked a transparent indestructible beard.

Or that other dwarf that ended up like some antropomorphic bunny but still counted as a dwarf for prophecies and dwarf-only poison.

Forgath is definitely not all dwarf anymore. I do hope that's obvious.

Vorpal doesn't have a mustache, nor does he have glowing bits. He has a fake moustache, and a potion. And having a bit of xp in 12 different classes is silly, but by no means impossible for a goblin.

However, are you aware that if you get bitten by a vampire, you become a vampire. If you get bitten by a ghoul, you become a ghoul. If you get bitten by a werewolf, you become a werewolf. If your life force gets drained by a wraith, you become a wraith. If you get infected by a slime, you become a slime. Aboleth's, and certain plants, and many many others can transform you into spawn or slaves or .. whatever.

Do I need to go on?

I'm not asking you to agree with me. So here's what: That's my view. That's it. Creatures that lack insides of the common sort - like brains, entrails, blood, all the juice and gore and gut that makes us tick - any creature that lacks all of that and has hellish red light instead? Such a creature is no longer a 'creature'. As stated, I picked 'portal', all but randomly, but it could be anything else. I don't read minds, and I have no idea what Elli feels he is now. Maybe a dwarf, who knows? But if so, I disagree.

I do not, however, care enough either way to discuss it at length.