The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA

[Inevitability]

Odopi

I got to hand it to WotC, they sure have a lot of weird monsters on hand. Arguably it's gotten out of hand here, though.

Handily enough, odopi have physical stats in the mid-twenties, okay DR, fast healing, free Whirlwind Attack, and useful energy resistances. On the other hand, they suffer from 20 aberration RHD, can't use weapons or tools (other than thrown weapons for some reason), and lack extraordinary forms of movement. To function, your party will need to lend you a hand quite often.

Also, for some reason, WotC thinks Improved Grab, Swallow Whole, and Trample are useful abilities at mid-levels. I can't believe my eyes.

Feyenally, there's the spell-likes which are mostly just bad. At-will feather fall, 3/day Dimension Door and 1/day True Seeing are not very impressive.


Conclusion: -0 LA, hands down.

Odopi, Elder

30 rhd bad, -0 la.

[Mike Miller]

Yea... -0 for not being a competitive choice, at all

[Covenant12]

-0 at ECL 20, not even close.

Honestly think its firmly -0 for its CR as well, it doesn't compare to CR 14 beatsticks (say a giant) or level 14 T3 players well. Full attack of one claw that doesn't hit that hard or four weak thrown attacks? This is flat out bad. Oh wait whirlwind attack....with 5 foot reach and it outright can't wield weapons. Ugh.

[Aniikinis]

-0 no contest. I wish there was more to be said, but this one is just bleh.

[Zaq]

Fantastically weird monster—even if it's mostly a beatstick monster, it's got a sufficiently crazy description that I'm okay calling it an interesting beatstick for fluff/appearance alone, which is rare for me. I usually lump things like this together in the "sack of meat" category, but this one's weird enough to be interesting, even if it's still mostly a pile of numbers. I feel like you'd have to use something comically bizarre as a miniature. A koosh ball, perhaps. Those still exist, right?

Beyond useless as a PC, though. 20 RHD do not a playable thing make.

From a design perspective, I've always wondered how they come up with the numbers on things like this. Why 7 fast healing? Why 22 SR? Why CL 18 on its SLAs?

[Inevitability]

From a design perspective, I've always wondered how they come up with the numbers on things like this. Why 7 fast healing? Why 22 SR? Why CL 18 on its SLAs?

Chaotic means random, duh.

[OgresAreCute]

Fantastically weird monster—even if it's mostly a beatstick monster, it's got a sufficiently crazy description that I'm okay calling it an interesting beatstick for fluff/appearance alone, which is rare for me. I usually lump things like this together in the "sack of meat" category, but this one's weird enough to be interesting, even if it's still mostly a pile of numbers. I feel like you'd have to use something comically bizarre as a miniature. A koosh ball, perhaps. Those still exist, right?

Beyond useless as a PC, though. 20 RHD do not a playable thing make.

From a design perspective, I've always wondered how they come up with the numbers on things like this. Why 7 fast healing? Why 22 SR? Why CL 18 on its SLAs?

SR is often HD/CR +10 or 11 so that an equally leveled caster has a roughly 50/50 shot at beating it, which makes sense. Obviously not the case here, and I'd guess they made the numbers for this thing by drawing notes from a hat or asking people around the office "Hey Mark, say a number between 20 and 30" and Mark goes like "uhhh, 22?".

[unseenmage]

These things definitely could've used a hand out of some kind in the superpowers dept.

Agreeing with the unanimous thumbs down of -0 for the both of them.

[ViperMagnum357]

LA -0 for both, there is nothing to salvage here as a PC. Getting True Seeing once a day can complicate encounters as an opponent; but this thing needs actual abilities to differentiate itself from the typical 'inflated sack of meat standing waiting around for PCs to bust it open like a gristle pinata for huge, mostly unearned EXP and treasure gains'. And, well, it does not.

[Luccan]

Sadly, all that HD makes them armless at the levels they would be played. Eye doubt there's anything that can be done to salvage them. LA -0

[Nifft]

[CENTER]Odopi

Also, for some reason, WotC thinks Improved Grab, Swallow Whole, and Trample are useful abilities at ECL 20. I can't believe my eyes.

I wish I could believe you were joking. Odopi is CR 14, which makes it an appropriate encounter for 10th level PCs.

Fantastically weird monster—even if it's mostly a beatstick monster, it's got a sufficiently crazy description that I'm okay calling it an interesting beatstick for fluff/appearance alone, which is rare for me. I usually lump things like this together in the "sack of meat" category, but this one's weird enough to be interesting, even if it's still mostly a pile of numbers. I feel like you'd have to use something comically bizarre as a miniature. A koosh ball, perhaps. Those still exist, right?

Beyond useless as a PC, though. 20 RHD do not a playable thing make.

From a design perspective, I've always wondered how they come up with the numbers on things like this. Why 7 fast healing? Why 22 SR? Why CL 18 on its SLAs?

SR 22 makes me think they'd intended it to be slightly easier as an encounter at ECL 14, or slightly more difficult at ECL 10.

I can't explain the caster level -- and on what, Feather Fall at-will? This thing isn't a strong caster, with only 4 daily SLAs and none of them offensive.

Fast Healing 7 seems to line up with the Con bonus (also +7), though in general there is no such correlation.



Anyway, yeah: a CR 14 melee threat isn't going to perform well as an ECL 20 player character.

Verdict: LA -0, next.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I got to hand it to WotC, they sure have a lot of weird monsters on hand. Arguably it's gotten out of hand here, though.

Discount Hecatoncheires? Meh.

Feyenally, there's the spell-likes which are mostly just bad. At-will feather fall, 3/day Dimension Door and 1/day True Seeing are not very impressive.

I'm pretty sure monks can do most of that by ECL 20, and they're monks.

[Thurbane]

No arguments here, definite LA -0.

[No brains]

I'd hate to go mano-a-mano with these. They're Mainly meant as monsters. Dast away from them as fast as possible. LA-0.

[danielxcutter]

I'm pretty sure monks can do most of that by ECL 20, and they're monks.

And at that level monks at least can speak with flowers, have ginormous unarmed strike damage and have had Greater Flurry for like nine levels, while these... Ewwwwwww. An aberration without even the natural weapons for Rapidstrike? EWWWWWWWWWWW.

[DeTess]

I think its safe to dismiss this creature out of hand. LA -0

[javcs]

Concur. -0. I'm pretty sure this one is unanimous and going to stay that way.

Give me a monk instead, and keep that thing away from character sheets for the love of everything.

[Blue Jay]

I like monsters with lots of arms and/or legs: they're just so... excitingly weird. The odopi looks like it ought to be a cool monster, but why does it only get one claw attack? That just doesn't make any kind of sense.

LA -0

[Inevitability]

I like monsters with lots of arms and/or legs: they're just so... excitingly weird. The odopi looks like it ought to be a cool monster, but why does it only get one claw attack? That just doesn't make any kind of sense.

LA -0

The intent seems to have been that it uses its Whirlwind Attack feat to make multiple attacks a round.

Of course, whirlwind attack is awful even against a full adventuring party, but the intent is there.

[Efrate]

it should have some type of swarm style attack. makes more sense. a very firm -0

[Blue Jay]

The intent seems to have been that it uses its Whirlwind Attack feat to make multiple attacks a round.

Of course, whirlwind attack is awful even against a full adventuring party, but the intent is there.

They should have given it the same treatment the deadly dancer from Tome of Magic got: a full attack with lots of claws, plus the option to Whirlwind Attack as a standard action.

[liquidformat]

the name should be Oh! Dopi and it is quite fitting for these useless monsters -0 LA for you. From looking through this monster I question if it can even make noises much less communicate outside of learning sign language of some sort which makes class options questionable even if you gave it full 20 level gestalt...

[Nifft]

the name should be Oh! Dopi and it is quite fitting

Go all the way: Oh! Dopey!

There's 1/7 of a dwarf in there somewhere.

[Hish]

-0. If the idea was lots of attacks at different opponents, they should give it some way of actually doing that better than a human.

[ExLibrisMortis]

"Every attack is a Whirlwind attack. Yes, that includes attacks of opportunity, now have at it!"

LA -0 as it stands.

[Thurbane]

Maybe they should have given it multiple melee attacks, and an Improved Whirlwind Attack like the Deadly Dancer (ToM p.80).

[javcs]

Go all the way: Oh! Dopey!

There's 1/7 of a dwarf in there somewhere.

Only if an odopi managed to eat one.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Go all the way: Oh! Dopey!

There's 1/7 of a dwarf in there somewhere.

And 1/8th over here, and 9% over there...these monsters may suck as level-appropriate challenge, and even worse as adventurers, but they do quite a number on the average person.

[Nifft]

Only if an odopi managed to eat one.

That is part of the joke, yes. Not the whole joke, since the name is also meaningful, and the fraction is intended to jog one's memory in that direction -- but you've gotten part of it.

they do quite a number on the average person.

The number "ate".

And just for pedantry's sake, a dopey Dwarf probably isn't "the average person" unless you're playing a very unusual game.

[GreatWyrmGold]

No, but they're probably within a standard deviation of average.