Keeping Sylphs as spell-batteries for Spellthieves

[Jowgen]

The Slyph is a CR 5 small Outsider (Air) creature from MMII that gets sorcerer spell-casting that scales at HD + 4. Other than that they have Improved Invisibility, Spell resistance and can summon a large elemental 1/day. So not much. They are adorable, curious and generally harmless.

I am looking for ways a less than virtuous Spellthief might go about keeping these things on hand to steal their spell-slots each day, as to cast his own spells more frequently.

Based on this list they seem to be the best option for this, as they are compact in size and low in challenge rating compared to the spells you can get out of them. Them having Sorcerer casting is important as it means the spells return each day without them having to do anything.

First issue is to find and capture one or two (dozen), without incurring worrisome repercussions. I don't think this is much of a challenge, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this.

The second and primary issue is how to best imprison them in a way that is ideally not utterly inhumane (non-virtuous yes, utterly evil not necessarily), while ensuring that they can not conceivably cast/escape or otherwise cause trouble.

The safest option is likely to permanently keep them unconscious somehow (helps with the spell-stealing since they then count as willing targets), which is simplified by them being outsiders and therefore not being subject to annoying frailties such as ageing or needing to eat. The issue will probably be what the best way to reliably keep them that way is.

Ability damage to Int or Wis might be a decent option, but a self-sustaining way to keep that going and NOT allowing the 1 point per day recovery to give momentary consciousness is another point. Can't keep them in straight up stasis as they need to regain their spells daily...

So yeah, all ideas welcome.

[flappeercraft]

Well a Mindrape/Monstrous Thrall/Necrotic Tumor should do the job in late game.

In mid levels your best bet is probably to get the party wizard to bind a couple with Lesser Planar Binding.

At any given point diplomancy would also work.

Getting Simulacrums of Sylphs should work too.

There are some slave rules in LoM IIRC so those might be another choice. IIRC it was something like CR^2x100 in GP to buy a slave.

[Jowgen]

Well a Mindrape/Monstrous Thrall/Necrotic Tumor should do the job in late game.

In mid levels your best bet is probably to get the party wizard to bind a couple with Lesser Planar Binding.

At any given point diplomancy would also work.

Getting Simulacrums of Sylphs should work too.

There are some slave rules in LoM IIRC so those might be another choice. IIRC it was something like CR^2x100 in GP to buy a slave.

Mindrape et al seem like a bit excessive for just keeping a 3 HD creature locked up. If they had other utility maybe, but just to keep them as batteries doesn't seem to warrant such big guns. Same for Simulcarum.

Lesser Planar Binding, once it comes online, is probably the best way to acquire one in the first place. Overcoming SR 14, +6 Will and +3 Cha to checks should be quite simple.

Slavery rules and Diplomacy might be somewhat viable, but I think the security provded by having them "on ice" is superior.

The lowest level solution I've been able to find is to command undead an Allip (can be gotten via lesser spirit binding if that's an issue) and have it Wis drain them to 0. Though if there are even more convenient ways to acquire Int or Wis drain at that low a level I am all ears.

[Anthrowhale]

You could just give the sylph a ritual beating with fists each day since nonlethal damage renders them unconscious without killing them and sufficient nonlethal damage will keep them down all day.

[Arael666]

A custom cursed item with the "Character must make a Will save each day or take 1 point of Wisdom damage." drawback. Just wis drain them first with an allip and don the cursed item on them, they should never wake up since they heal 1 ability damage a day but also lose 1 a day, and with 0 wis you should only be worried with a nat 20 occuring.

Leave them in a handy haversack and check on them once every morning.

[WhamBamSam]

Don't they need to be conscious to regain spell slots each day? Rendering them comatose might be a problem. If regaining spell slots is a purely mental action, then you could paralyze them somehow and force them to regain slots under threat of pain.

[daremetoidareyo]

Leadership? Diplomacy optimization

[Aetis]

You could befriend one.

[noob]

You could befriend one.

If he did build a diplomancer he would probably not be playing a spellthief.

[Fizban]

Them having Sorcerer casting is important as it means the spells return each day without them having to do anything. . .
Ability damage to Int or Wis might be a decent option, but a self-sustaining way to keep that going and NOT allowing the 1 point per day recovery to give momentary consciousness is another point. Can't keep them in straight up stasis as they need to regain their spells daily...

Don't they need to be conscious to regain spell slots each day? Rendering them comatose might be a problem. If regaining spell slots is a purely mental action, then you could paralyze them somehow and force them to regain slots under threat of pain.

Sorcerers require 15 minutes of concentration after 8 hours of rest to regain their spells. As to whether being wrongfully imprisoned and threatened with torture counts as an interruption of rest, that's as up to the DM as the rest of it. Note that conversation is on the list of things that interrupt rest for arcane spell recovery purposes.

[Telonius]

"Sleep until true love's first kiss" is a pretty classic Curse to Bestow on them. (The DM might require a Greater Bestow Curse [SpC] for something that powerful). Otherwise, you could just take the debt route. Arrange for them to be captured. "Purchase" them from their captor for some ungodly amount of GP (not actually exchanged). Agree to free them after X years of service.

[Efrate]

Addiction to a drug? More evil bit if you make them a junkie and you are the dealer should work. Depending on your bluff you might even get by for a long time without supplying.

Bargain with them. " I'll take you on wonderful adventures keep you safe, I just need to siphon some magic mojo from you occasionally." Give them a nice riverine (sp? the force like stuff from stormwrack) cage with a yummy interior and play on their natural inquisitiveness.

Leadership for a bunch, need to work details with your dm.

[Jowgen]

You could just give the sylph a ritual beating with fists each day since nonlethal damage renders them unconscious without killing them and sufficient nonlethal damage will keep them down all day.

Doable, probably the cheapest option, but a bit too inelegant for my tastes.

A custom cursed item with the "Character must make a Will save each day or take 1 point of Wisdom damage." drawback. Just wis drain them first with an allip and don the cursed item on them, they should never wake up since they heal 1 ability damage a day but also lose 1 a day, and with 0 wis you should only be worried with a nat 20 occuring.

Leave them in a handy haversack and check on them once every morning.

This would be workable. Crafing something cheap with the Blood Artisan feat might do. Though once drained to 0 Wis, they shouldn't be able to recover without outside aid.

Sorcerers require 15 minutes of concentration after 8 hours of rest to regain their spells. As to whether being wrongfully imprisoned and threatened with torture counts as an interruption of rest, that's as up to the DM as the rest of it. Note that conversation is on the list of things that interrupt rest for arcane spell recovery purposes.

Being drained to 0 Wis has them in a "deep sleep" (albeit with nightmares), so the resting part should definitely be covered.

Now the 15 minute preparation thing might be an issue. The MM entry on racial spellcasting only states that "A creature that has access to cleric spells must prepare them in the normal manner and receives domain spells if noted" but doesn't go into how arcane casting is affected.

If it is ruled that the do need to concentrate for 15 minutes to regain their spells, well that would put a wrinkle in things. The Dreaming Puppet spell (at CL 15+) would allow us to do the 15 minutes of concentration for them, but that is a bit high powered. Casting some basic compulsion on them before healing a point of wis and commanding them might be easier.

Or maybe there is a spell or item out there that obviates the need for the 15 min recovery?

Addiction to a drug? More evil bit if you make them a junkie and you are the dealer should work. Depending on your bluff you might even get by for a long time without supplying.

Bargain with them. " I'll take you on wonderful adventures keep you safe, I just need to siphon some magic mojo from you occasionally." Give them a nice riverine (sp? the force like stuff from stormwrack) cage with a yummy interior and play on their natural inquisitiveness.

I like the idea of using a drug addiction, but the question is which one. Dreamlily is hella cheap and probably makes them way more pliable, especially in scenarios where you do need to temporarily wake them so they regain their spells...

EDIT: Okay, had a look at the drug options, which should work well considering the basic Sylph only has a +2 to Fort saves (if it even gets to attempt them).

I think the best one to use is Baccaran (10 gp to buy) in tandem with Dreamlily (1 gp to buy)

Use the Allip (still open to suggestions on other sources of Wis drain) to Drain it's wis to 0, putting it to sleep. Then each day at dawn place it under some compulsion effect so you can give it an order it'll follow, then administer a dose of Baccaran to give it an enhancement bonus to Wis (1d4+1) for 16 to 25 minutes, which wakes it up from it's sleep. Give the order for it to concetrate on regaining its spells for 15 minutes.

After that is done it is rewarded with a dose of Dreamlily, which after a minute with do 1d4 Wis damage that might put it back under right away, but if not its just a matter of waiting out the effect of the Baccaran. With the Dreamlily, the Sylph's nightmare sleep should become calmy pleseant for at least 8 hours, guaraneeing that this counts as proper rest.

Benefits of this is that you don't need to keep the Allip on hand to re-drain the wis drain, and the addiction to 2 seperate drugs encourages complicance beyond compulsion magic. Plus addiction to Dreamlily further reduces its Will save by 2, which considering it's Wis will never rise above 5 (a -3 instead of their normal +3) means that instead of its normal Will save bonus of 6 it actually gets a -2 to Will saves.

Should by some means the Sylph manage to break out, it'll only have a max of 25 minutes to get away, of which it would have to spend 15 to regain its spells while not moving, and if it isn't a satiated day, then also contend with the addiction damage. So most unlikely it'll get far.

[Segev]

With any version that gets a willing or compelled servitude, isn’t it more effective to have the Sylph cast her own spells? Action economy, and all that.

So for this to be not-wasteful, it should be a means that does not require obedient sylph-servants and is cheaper than any means to get obedient sylph-servants.

[Jowgen]

With any version that gets a willing or compelled servitude, isn’t it more effective to have the Sylph cast her own spells? Action economy, and all that.

So for this to be not-wasteful, it should be a means that does not require obedient sylph-servants and is cheaper than any means to get obedient sylph-servants.

Well the lowest cost option as is would be to go find and capture your own Sylph and own Allip to Wis drain it. More conveniently, if available, one casting of Lesser Planar Binding and Summon Undead IV can sort both.

Then, if the 15 minutes of conscious concentration are required for racial arcane casting, also gotta expend 10 gp/day on Baccaran to rouse it, and use a Suggestion or similar (e.g. Ritual of Black Charms, LoD) to keep it obedient for 15-25 minutes.

If you want it cast is own spells you gotta instead expend resources to acquire that control, such as making a deal as part of the binding, mindrape, etc.. Main drawback is that you gotta worry about keeping control and keeping it alive out in the world, which are two whole separate headaches.

[Jowgen]

Minor addendum, as it doesn't look like there will be any more contributions.

Depending on one's needs, it may be advantageous to caputre/bind Sylph's of higher HD. It's SR and Saves will improve, but really very little changes in terms of the procedure for capture and drain.

A 4 HD sylph casts as a Sorcerer of 8th level, netting us 4th level spells. The maximum HD a lesser planar binding can net us is 6, which gives us a 10th level sorcerer and therefore 5th level spells.

The most advanced Sylph of 9 HD requires a regular Planar Binding, and can provide 6th level spells.

In all instances, boosting the Sylph's charisma score for more bonus spells might be advantageous.

Now is someone could provide a means by which one could advance a lower HD sylph forcefully, so that she can be upgraded as needed, that would be neat, but I doubt it.