Questionable Content 14: "I Deserve A Fancy Butt Emblem."

[Vinyadan]

https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-04-06

[RowenMorland]

Dora is really the outlier in this comic. She hates Toto, she's from the Goth scene, she kinkshames, she has a business, she does magic...

When/what kinkshames?

[Wraith]

When/what kinkshames?

When she went through Marten's laptop and made fun of how vanilla his porn bookmarks were.

[Vinyadan]

When/what kinkshames?

What I had in mind was during a conversation about RealDolls, but all three of them were fairly squicked, and Hanners was the one to be very damning of their owners. https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=633

In theory, she is openly talking against fart fetishes here https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1694 , but that's about her partner, and I think it's OK to express relief in those situations, since it means that you won't be asked to do things you wouldn't be comfortable with.

[Thufir]

When she went through Marten's laptop and made fun of how vanilla his porn bookmarks were.

Does it still count as kinkshaming if she's mocking him for his lack of kinks?

Of course, that question is purely hypothetical because she didn't make fun of him for it. At most she seemed kinda disappointed that there wasn't some juicy secret in there (and that was her talking to Pintsize as Marten was arriving, not talking to him), and then the argument happened.

[Maryring]

Does it still count as kinkshaming if she's mocking him for his lack of kinks?

Yes. Whitetext

[Wraith]

Of course, that question is purely hypothetical because she didn't make fun of him for it.

Apart from the bit where she specifically referred to Marten's porn as "Boring". It's difficult for that to be taken as anything other than an insult directed at his tastes, whether she was saying it to him or to Pintsize.

"But it was only one word". Okay; what is the arbitrary minimum number of insulting words necessary for it to be or not be kinkshaming?

[Thufir]

Apart from the bit where she specifically referred to Marten's porn as "Boring". It's difficult for that to be taken as anything other than an insult directed at his tastes, whether she was saying it to him or to Pintsize.

If I describe a film as boring, do you take that as an insult to all the people who liked it? Or am I simply expressing my own opinion, which is different to theirs?

In any case, what she's describing as boring is the fact it's just normal porn, when she was hoping to find something out of the ordinary. It's not a commentary on the specific porn.
I mean, Dora has very clear flaws, and that strip definitely exemplifies some of them, but I don't see it as kinkshaming.

[InvisibleBison]

If I describe a film as boring, do you take that as an insult to all the people who liked it? Or am I simply expressing my own opinion, which is different to theirs?

In any case, what she's describing as boring is the fact it's just normal porn, when she was hoping to find something out of the ordinary. It's not a commentary on the specific porn.
I mean, Dora has very clear flaws, and that strip definitely exemplifies some of them, but I don't see it as kinkshaming.

By calling Marten's sexual tastes boring, Dora is implying that he should have different tastes. That's the same thing that people are doing when they kinkshame. So while Dora isn't technically knkshaming Marten, she's doing is the same kind of thing as kinkshaming, and is bad for the same reasons.

[Keltest]

By calling Marten's sexual tastes boring, Dora is implying that he should have different tastes. That's the same thing that people are doing when they kinkshame. So while Dora isn't technically knkshaming Marten, she's doing is the same kind of thing as kinkshaming, and is bad for the same reasons.

By that metric, expressing any different sexual taste is kinkshaming and bad. After all, you think your own tastes are better, and therefore people who don't share them, should do so.

[InvisibleBison]

By that metric, expressing any different sexual taste is kinkshaming and bad. After all, you think your own tastes are better, and therefore people who don't share them, should do so.

Liking something doesn't necessarily mean that you think everyone else should like it or that people who don't like it are wrong. Calling something boring, on the other hand, is an explicit (albeit mild) condemnation of the thing.

[Keltest]

Liking something doesn't necessarily mean that you think everyone else should like it or that people who don't like it are wrong. Calling something boring, on the other hand, is an explicit (albeit mild) condemnation of the thing.

No, it just means that you personally don't like it. Unless you choose to read "I don't like it" as "therefore everybody who does is wrong", there is no condemnation.

[John Cribati]

Hah! Threatening violence on men is funny!

This ppst has now become significantly less of a reach

[mythmonster2]

This ppst has now become significantly less of a reach

I mean, Dora would probably have reacted the same way to anyone else. This kinda humor isn't exactly new to QC, as was pointed out before.

[Wraith]

If I describe a film as boring, do you take that as an insult to all the people who liked it? Or am I simply expressing my own opinion, which is different to theirs?

On one film? No, that would be too far to even be called "a reach".

On a library of films that one person has specifically curated to suit their own tastes and preferences, only for their own amusement? I'd honestly say it'd be hard for that not to be seen as an insult to that person, especially as the commentary was uninvited and unwanted.

In any case, what she's describing as boring is the fact it's just normal porn, when she was hoping to find something out of the ordinary.

I think that the line can be just as easily read either way - that the porn itself is boring, or that the curation is boring. Given the context and Dora's disregard for Marten's privacy I believe that it was referring to the latter.

I don't see it as kinkshaming.

Fair enough. All I'm suggesting is that although it doesn't bother you, it might other people and that disagreement doesn't invalidate either opinion.

[Willie the Duck]

Fair enough, it's opinion expression day here on the thread. :-P Mine for the day are:
QC treats implied violence as funny in a way that would never be funny in real life, but is frankly unsurprising in media (old school comedy like Looney Toons or Three Stooges obviously, but pretty much is still close to the norm to day), and no QC does not single out guys.
Expressing the opinion that someone else's tastes in anything is boring is not shaming them, it is declaring your own perspective. If you also mock them over it in some way (which no one has provided a link of Dora doing so), that might change the situation.
All the characters, as mouthpieces of Jeph, used to be more ready to kink shame, judge people over trivial things (often taste in media), and treat trans sexuality as a punch line. Jeph has changed his opinions and the strip over time. This is a normal part of adulthood.
Although I think the main cast will be perpetually 20-somethings, it does seem like it will be harder and harder for Jeph to write them as convincing 20-somethings. This micro-obsession over getting older seems like a fruitful avenue for him to explore (probably better than his soapbox plotlines).

[Beelzebub1111]

Turnabout isn't fair play.
Can't poke fun at woman getting older, even if that is in response to her poking fun at you getting older.

[Ibrinar]

I assume you are complaining about what Jeph is writing again, so if that is a misinterpretation and you are commenting on her behaviour disregard this: Her having a dramatic overreaction is meant to be silly not present her as correct in not handling it well.

[Vinyadan]

Fair enough, it's opinion expression day here on the thread. :-P Mine for the day are:
QC treats implied violence as funny in a way that would never be funny in real life, but is frankly unsurprising in media (old school comedy like Looney Toons or Three Stooges obviously, but pretty much is still close to the norm to day), and no QC does not single out guys.
Expressing the opinion that someone else's tastes in anything is not shaming them, it is declaring your own perspective. If you also mock them over it in some way (which no one has provided a link of Dora doing so), that might change the situation.
All the characters, as mouthpieces of Jeph, used to be more ready to kink shame, judge people over trivial things (often taste in media), and treat trans sexuality as a punch line. Jeph has changed his opinions and the strip over time. This is a normal part of adulthood.
Although I think the main cast will be perpetually 20-somethings, it does seem like it will be harder and harder for Jeph to write them as convincing 20-somethings. This micro-obsession over getting older seems like a fruitful avenue for him to explore (probably better than his soapbox plotlines).

Generally speaking, I agree. I think that there is a comedic effect in having violence being a monopoly of women in QC, because it's a comic inversion: women are weaker and less violent irl, which makes their threats in QC sound over the top and comedic. This Dora page in particular looks like a perfect rehash of "Carnally. On a daily basis." Men using violence are ineffectual (Marten fighting the Vespa Avenger, the agents). There is the scene in which Steve kicks Marten in the back to create a diversion for himself, which shows what a self-centred backstabber he is.

[Traab]

You mean sven? I recall him booting marten out of the bathroom to distract a "psycho ex" and it causing minor issues for marten but more for sven.

[Yana]

I kinda wish Marten had followed up on his statement about Dora's wrinkles. It'd be nice to call that particular bluff.

[Beelzebub1111]

women are weaker and less violent irl

*stereotyped as*
Important and damgerous distinction. The idea that it's okay for women to be violent because they are weaker is seriously misogynistic.

[mucat]

Claire's probably-not-hallucinatory visitor is Tai, right? Because as much as she looks like Faye with a new haircut, their conversation wouldn't make sense that way.

Hey, what if Raven or Emily have been messing with the spacetime continuum again, and every art change is actually an alternate timeline?

[John Cribati]

Not to be That Guy, but in general the female body (as in, a body that naturally produces more estrogen than testosterone) is just. Not as good at building muscle as a male one (a body that naturally produces more testosterone than estrogen). Male bodies tend to possess more raw strength, bar none.

And since we're making important distinctions, men aren't "stereotyped as" more violent, so much as they're often socialized to be more violent.

Claire's probably-not-hallucinatory visitor is Tai, right? Because as much as she looks like Faye with a new haircut, their conversation wouldn't make sense that way.

Tan. Red hair. Yellow star tattoo on elbow. It's Tai.

[Cazero]

Not to be That Guy, but in general the female body (as in, a body that naturally produces more estrogen than testosterone) is just. Not as good at building muscle as a male one (a body that naturally produces more testosterone than estrogen). Male bodies tend to possess more raw strength, bar none.

And it doesn't mean squat in the modern world where building those muscles is no longer a side effect of everyone's day job. Nowadays, having some sort of training is more important than being born with the right genitals.

[John Cribati]

And yet women are generally socialized against training in such a manner. We do have a few outliers, but something something Spiders Georg

[Morquard]

Is it just me or is Tai's nose suddenly gigantic?

[Vinyadan]

Maybe, one day, women will be as violent as men. That day just isn't here.

About strength, if you think about size categories in disciplines like box, you'll see that a 15-20% size difference is a big deal.

And, of course, something being funny when represented ≠ something being OK.

[Kish]

Claire's probably-not-hallucinatory visitor is Tai, right? Because as much as she looks like Faye with a new haircut, their conversation wouldn't make sense that way.

This time I'm going to officially say I don't at all get the confusion.

Faye's a lot curvier.

[Wraith]

I kinda wish Marten had followed up on his statement about Dora's wrinkles. It'd be nice to call that particular bluff.

She's also his ex-girlfriend, and she broke up with him. At least a little bit of light-hearted criticism and/or teasing should be expected, even if they remained amiable to one another.

Then again, it has been shown that Dora doesn't accept any kind of criticism very well due to her various insecurities. With that in mind and the recent resurfacing of threatening people with knives in public, I wonder if we'll see anything more of her therapist in the near future? She was a fun character, I would enjoy seeing more of anyone who can trash talk Faye and Dora with impunity.