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Thread: Sauron vs Voldemort
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2007-12-07, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.
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2007-12-07, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Re: My Divinity: Well actually Sauron rules so much that he has a God (me) as his prophet, none of this mortal or semi-mortal prophet business, that's for sissies.
Re: Magic Negation: HP doesn't actually have a rule that states that magic cannot be negated/blocked/countered/whatever word we're using right now.
We could assume that both universes rules apply and therefore HP wizards can cast, but Sauron can also "cast" his anti-magic abilities. So HP wizards need to be a sufficient distance from Sauron in order to cast properly.
Alternatively, we could assume that HP rules trump ME rules and even then that loopholes convenient to Voldemort (ie. the food issue) still allow those rules to be broken, but only by Voldemort.
Ditto, at this point I am simply trying to help you understand exactly what you are suggesting in the hopes that you will see the error of your ways. I do not mean to offend you, but what you have suggested is truly illogical and certainly not a neutral consideration of this battle.
Re: LK v S: I will come to that debate at some point; at the moment I simply don't have the time.
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2007-12-07, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
You're right. No, there is not a rule that Dumbledore mentioned this one time, "By the way, it's impossible to make a null-magic zone." But is there a rule Gandalf said one time, "I can undo anything, ever, period"? It's like in A Few Good Men, when Tom Cruise asks why directiosn to the mess hall aren't in the Marine code of conduct. Something are laid out by gobs of supporting evidence, OR are plainly evident just by walking around in the place.
What you are suggesting is that Sauron is completely and totally immune to any magic Voldemort could hit him with, period. Not that Voldemort could cast anything even if he wanted to, because Sauron could unthink magic. I get exactly what you're saying, and it doesn't track.
What I am suggesting is that Sauron's niftiest ability in a fight against magic users, the ability to cut off use of magic, cannot function the way it is 'explained' in LOTR because magic works in a completely different way in HP. That's not a transparency issue - such as how big and hot your fireball is, and where it enters the material realm - it's a basic fact of the system that cannot be compromise-equated away. It's like LOTR magic working without uber-willpower. It's not the way magic is built in HP to be blanket suppressed.
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2007-12-07, 09:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Again, Avada Kedavera is blocked. It doesn't kill Harry as a baby, yet it was cast. Something either negated, blocked, cancelled out, reversed, destroyed, rendered harmless or otherwise defeated it. Call it a block, shield or whatever, the point is that, even within the universe it can be defeated even if it makes contact. Thus Harry Potter magic is not, as you claim, impossible to prevent doing its thang, even after it is cast.
By the way, did anybody else engineer the strange way in which every single person can be rendered immortal in the HP-verse by killing one person?
1) Have Wizard A kill random person B.
2) Wizard A creates a horcrux while doing this.
3) Have Wizard C kill Wizard A and form a horcrux. Now both have at least a limited immortality.
4) Reform Wizard A, have wizards D and E kill A and B
5)Repeat
6)????
7) Profit.
The best part about this is that it's rate grows porportionally to the number of repititions of the cycle, so once the program is off the ground it won't take to long. Talk about a healthcare plan...Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.
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2007-12-08, 05:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Alright, that's it. This thread has reached it's peak; it's all down hill from here. Might as well lock this thread up tighter than a frog in a watermelon seed spittin' contest because it not going to any better than this.
We needed the ultimate funny, and it was delivered.
Sauron vs Voldemort, you say?
Easy: WG wins.
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2007-12-08, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
AK was blocked by loooooove, not 'counterspelled/nullified' - which would mean it was never actually cast. AK has that big asterisk about the love shield, but since that isn't readily reproducible or consciously castable, it's not a valid active defense, and in any event Sauron cannot call on its power (the ultimate, if infrequent force in HP) for protection.
Horcruxing is a Deep Magicke of Eville and all that, and the existence of such a thing is barely even known of, much less common. The ritual involves tearing apart your soul and rending your very humanity - and while Death Eaters are by and large verifiably quite evil, there aren't many who are that deranged to go along with it. Voldemort never let slip to any of his followers that he had them floating about, however nifty a business model it might make once wizard A got over the fact that he had to work pretty hard to reform.
That being said, I'm perfectly okay with WG being the ultimate winner of this thread. He's earned it.
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2007-12-08, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
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2007-12-08, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.
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2007-12-09, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
TP, I've been quite explicit on how *I've* been using the word counterspell for at least a dozen pages, and it is 'before spell is cast/never gets cast'. 'After cast/before effect', e.g., deflecting a stunner, is blocking.
Heh... would that mean your Horcruxing Galleons in 7 Easy Steps plan is the sort of thing the Dark Lord Warty Goblin would do with brilliant college-educated metaplot knowledge, and not what Voldemort would do? Geeze, I hope no one phrases it *that* way or there'll be hell to pay!
No matter! It is ended! WG, you may sig away. I shall be more than happy to rephrase your victory in a more sig-attractive fashion, if you so desire.
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2007-12-09, 10:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Exactly, if I ever become a Dark Lord, the very world will tremble in fear of my healthcare plan! Of course, using my metaplot knowledge I would also build a massive Self-Destruct Switch (bearing a clear warning of its functionality) onto my main power generator, which would by neccesity cause the collapse of my entire Dark Fortress with Forbidding Background Soundtrack, while I escaped in safety to my secret reserve base on the dark side of the moon.
And thank you for a most excellent debate. This has been a very enjoyable thread for its near forty pages and, what, two months running time? Your original statement is quite enough as well, I will be sigging it shortly.
Again, thank you for the discussion.Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.
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2007-12-09, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
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2007-12-10, 01:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
*sniff*
...I guess what i said wasn't sig worthy...
*sniff*
*huddles in corner eating cookie crumbs off the floor*
Anyway, yes this has been a very enjoyable thread. I'd ask who we're goign to pit Sauron up against next, but what i came up with in the S v LK thread is a nearly all encompassing argument that applies to almost anyone who couldn't bring themselves to destroy The Ring.
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2007-12-10, 05:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
funny how you presume that we should all go along with your definition of counterspelling even though we do not agree it's a correct one, just because it suits your defense line better...had you not made the same assumption in more than one case, this whole thread would have been a hell of a lot shorter...
wait..it's really ended? God...I was doubting I'd live to see the day..
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2007-12-10, 06:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Sauron has an army of millions of orcs, trolls, and what have you, and his immortality MacGuffin was invulnerable to all but the fire of a single volcano.
Voldemort has sniveling wannabes, double and triple agents, and immortality MacGuffins that can be destroyed by a teenage boy.
Furthermore, whereas Voldy ran a wizard Mafia and the Muggle world never recognized that there was an evil megalomaniac rampaging about the English countryside, Sauron was a force to be feared by the entire freakin' world.
And then there's the Ringwraiths. These undead, ring-bound beings of destruction are logically invulnerable to Imperius (their minds are already being controlled by Sauron, so Voldemort would have to control the demigod's mind first... and who can beat THAT Will save?), Avada Kedavra (They're undead... they can't be killed that easily, much less by evil...), and possibly the Cruciatus Curse (come on, I mean, they're hell-bound servants of Satan (if you extend the metaphor used in Tolkien's work, Morgoth and Sauron can both be seen as being derived from Satan), so any pain that Voldemort can inflict is a drop in the ocean of pain they are probably... er... un-living). The Witch-King of Angmar is probably at least capable of taking out Voldemort by himself, but then there's eight more of them!
...Voldemort, barely an A-list villain, can stand no chance against the powers of an Epic-level horror that is the Lord of the Rings.
If Sauron doesn't kill him, he'll instead turn Voldemort into the 10th Nazgul through corruption by one of the Rings under his control (probably not the Nine, though... I think those are still being worn by the original Nazgul...).
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2007-12-10, 06:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
So far the best Vs thread. Well structured and humorous posts on both sides. Well done guys!
O.Enjoy my creations
Gatsu, from Berserk (Kentaro Miura's)
A hero: the Tekkaman space-knight.
The villain he has to face: Dobrai, Valdaster Overlord from Tekkaman
Threadwinner of Vs Mage challenges.
Warning: may perform below standards if target has no heat signature (eg: undead mage)
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2007-12-10, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.
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2007-12-11, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
High five, Rowan! Couldn’t think of a worthier adversary to join in a worthier sig.
Everyone’s free to define counterspelling in anyway they like. I was trying to be clear on what I meant when I used the word, which people kept disagreeing with… I mean, if you want to use a different definition, that’s cool. I never got why people said I was explaining what I meant incorrectly, though. I detailed ‘that thing you can’t do to HP magic’, and called it counterspelling. If there’s another version of counterspelling with broader implications that my definition doesn’t fulfill, bully for it. I didn’t claim it did. I just hope I’d explained what I meant to say clearly enough.
Mando, you’re so very late.
[/closing thought]
[/end thread]
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2007-12-11, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
*High Five!*
*Gobbles cookies*
*Picks nit* The Nazgule don't wear the Nine rings anymore; Sauron took them back.
This thread was indeed great.
Sorry if you already said Ditto, but does the "overness" of this thread indicate that you are handing the victory to SSSAAAUUURRROOONNN!!!
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2007-12-11, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Y'know, if I *had*, do you really believe you'd've missed it?
Besides, you already handed over victory. To WG. No more victories to hand out.
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2007-12-11, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-12-11, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Well, well, well. Forty pages, and a fairly courteous and well-thought out versus thread, as these things go. Since it seems as if our main facilitators have repeatedly gone over all points, and the thread has been conceded to dark horse candidate Warty Goblin... can it be that a versus thread might wrap itself up tidily?
Last edited by The_Snark; 2007-12-11 at 10:16 PM.
Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!
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2007-12-11, 10:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-12-11, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-12-11, 11:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
I love the easy answer
wait..it's really ended? God...I was doubting I'd live to see the day..
Oh and ditto, what about me? I fought you tooth an nail as well
can me and Sauron's prophit be co-winners?
from,
EE
edit, opps, double spaceLast edited by EvilElitest; 2007-12-11 at 11:04 PM.
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2007-12-12, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-12-12, 12:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Sorry, EE, but WG gets the throne to himself. Rowan served the nomination, but I don't think I could have voted for anyone else. (We vote for kings around here. We're cool like Naboo!)
Has a vs. thread ever 'ended' before? I've never followed one of any consequence. What fun!
Why do you want to actively prolong the thread, TP? Seems a silly exercise, no need to add nothing-posts. Everyone's been clamoring for its cessation for pages and pages now, you'd think they'd let it peter off peacefully. I guess it only needs like105 posts for page 40, but whoop-de-doo. Who's counting?
EDIT: Well tickle me a hypocrite, I'm counting. I just dinged. It's fitting, of course, that I go Ogre because of this thread.Last edited by Ditto; 2007-12-12 at 12:33 AM.
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2007-12-12, 12:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
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2007-12-12, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Well, the outer land-y part is cool. The inner part is just messed up. The planet's core is a *network of watery caverns*... WTF? Boss Nass probably ate someone for his Bossness, which isn't nearly as cool as electing absolute rulers.
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2007-12-12, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort
Any race that gives its supreme rulers the title of Boss has to be given some credit. It's like A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court.
Also, somebody has cooked up a rational explanation for Jar Jar Binks (note that you'll have to read a bit further to get the actual explanation bit).
Forty pages is all very well, but the novelty of a versus thread in which everyone decided to bring it to a conclusion... ! We could probably send that in to the Guinness Book of World Records or something.Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!
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2007-12-12, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Sauron vs Voldemort