Dark and Full Of Spoilers (GOT Season 8 Spoiler Thread Part 2)

[Devonix]

I think you missed the part where she hasn't used her powers a single time this season and she was convinced not to kill Cersei.

She was convinced to not go and kill Cersei because at that point the war was already over, Cersei had lost and there was no point in going. Hell there was no point in the Hound going. The hound didn't need vengance, he wanted it. Arya didn't need to kill Cersei, she wanted to.

The hound going after the mountain wasn't a brave and heroic thing, it was foolish, it was wrong, but he was so trapped in the need for revenge, he couldn't live any other way.

Killing Cersei to stop the war is something Arya would and should have done. Killing Cersei after the Red keep was destroyed would be pointless and that's why she leaves, she realizes it's pointless. If Danyarys is killed by Jon, then there would be a point to sending Arya to assassinate Cersei, because doing that would save lives.

[NRSASD]

My wife providing Drogon's internal monologue after finding Daenrys stabbed by Jon:

"Mommy? Mommy?!" *nudge nudge*
"Oh no! Mommy's dead! How did this happen?!"

*looks at Iron throne, sees that it's made of swords*
*looks at Dany, sees knife sticking out of her*

"ARG YOU KILLED MOMMY!! BURN!!"
*Sets throne on fire*

"Oh hi John!"

[deuterio12]

And I think you missed the part that the Hound was only able to convince Arya to stop her vengeance streak because there was a Dragon attacking the Keep and Cersei had already lost, making it a bit pointless and certain death for Arya (as it was for the Hound).

Which would not have happened if Jon had done the right thing.

Except that Jojo Snow also missed that part.

He and Varys and Tyrion and Sansa and everybody else (besides the Hound who's going with her). Nobody remembers to point out "wait we don't need violence we can have Arya take care of King's Landing with minimum bloodshed". Jojo Snow himself is completely surprised when he finds his little sister there.

The right thing would've been just ask Arya to take care of Cersei in the first place and give Daenerys a chance, see how she dealt with a city that surrendered peacefully from the start instead of one who killed another of her dragons, one of her best friends and resisted until the walls were blown up and Daenerys troops were pouring in.

But alas everybody just forgets that they have a super assassin in their side.

[BlacKnight]

The hound going after the mountain wasn't a brave and heroic thing, it was foolish, it was wrong, but he was so trapped in the need for revenge, he couldn't live any other way.

Speaking of the Hound. It' just another example of the problems with this show.
They spend entire seasons driving the characters along certain lines, only to have them make a complete 180° at the end for no reason.
The damn Hound has acted the opposite of "being obsessed by revenge" in the last seasons, he hasn't talked about his brother at all... But suddenly revenge is his life goal.
It's just so bad.

[diplomancer]

Except that Jojo Snow also missed that part.

He and Varys and Tyrion and Sansa and everybody else (besides the Hound who's going with her). Nobody remembers to point out "wait we don't need violence we can have Arya take care of King's Landing with minimum bloodshed". Jojo Snow himself is completely surprised when he finds his little sister there.

The right thing would've been just ask Arya to take care of Cersei in the first place and give Daenerys a chance, see how she dealt with a city that surrendered peacefully from the start instead of one who killed another of her dragons, one of her best friends and resisted until the walls were blown up and Daenerys troops were pouring in.

But alas everybody just forgets that they have a super assassin in their side.

I think I made it clear how I feel about Jon Snow. If I haven't, he revealed himself to be, at the end, an innefectual lame-ass, who, by his omission, condemned thousands of people to death. If he is cursed to fight the Wildlings battles for ever, that is a fitting end for him.

Daenerys would have done whatever is necessary to become Queen. As she is not loved and is not the legitimate ruler, we all know what that means. Cersei being alive or not is irrelevant. If Daenerys was not the power-hungry individual revealed at the end of the series (but that attentive readers could have known about all along), but only concerned with what is hers by right, she would have voluntarily yielded to Jon, instead of asking him to not reveal his heritage to anyone. She might even get to marry him and rule by his side, because in this case she would not be the woman with a messianic complex who burned Varys to death, which was kind of a turn-off for Jon (it was the first time he witnessed execution by Dragon and the pleasure Daenerys gets from it, if I remember correctly).

[johnbragg]

Except that Jojo Snow also missed that part.

He and Varys and Tyrion and Sansa and everybody else (besides the Hound who's going with her). Nobody remembers to point out "wait we don't need violence we can have Arya take care of King's Landing with minimum bloodshed". Jojo Snow himself is completely surprised when he finds his little sister there.

The right thing would've been just ask Arya to take care of Cersei in the first place and give Daenerys a chance, see how she dealt with a city that surrendered peacefully from the start instead of one who killed another of her dragons, one of her best friends and resisted until the walls were blown up and Daenerys troops were pouring in.

But alas everybody just forgets that they have a super assassin in their side.

....maybe they don't know?

Besides Bran, I don't think anyone saw Arya take out the Night King, did they? And even if they saw that, that just means "oh the girl got lucky with a dragonglass dagger." A relative handful know that Arya is very combat-capable--sparring with Brienne, competing with Gedry, fighting alongside the Hound--but it is show-canon that Sansa, Jon, Tyrion, Varys know that Arya is a Faceless Man-style magic ninja assassin?

I'm not sure that the relevant decision makers (besides Arya herself) know that "Unleash the rogue Faceless Man to kill Cersei" is an option that they have available.

[Dr.Samurai]

Deuterio is correct. I mentioned in the last thread (before episode 5) how Arya could save everyone a lot of grief by explaining her powers and her intentions and everyone agreeing to let her go down there first and do her thing.

But she's an edgelord so... you know how they do things.

Re: Arya's choice

It didn't look to me like she cared too much about the falling tower. And she seems to continue trying to reach Cersei despite the Hound telling her she is going to die. She is swayed when he says "do you want to look like me". This is sort of confusing too because the Hound has never been characterized as someone hellbent on revenge, but the takeaway for me was that Arya didn't want to be someone ruled by her lust for vengeance.

If Arya continued up the stairs she probably would have killed Cersei. Then she would have seen Dany flying around killing everyone. The Hound would have been like "I'll take care of my brother, you take out that dragon bitch!" and then he would have thrown Arya as Dany was flying by and Arya would have landed on Drogon and killed Dany and then stab Drogon through the skull. And as Drogon is crashing to the ground, Arya would have leapt off and hopped down on the falling stone rubble until she reached the ground in a smooth landing.

[Saintheart]

....maybe they don't know?

Besides Bran, I don't think anyone saw Arya take out the Night King, did they? And even if they saw that, that just means "oh the girl got lucky with a dragonglass dagger." A relative handful know that Arya is very combat-capable--sparring with Brienne, competing with Gedry, fighting alongside the Hound--but it is show-canon that Sansa, Jon, Tyrion, Varys know that Arya is a Faceless Man-style magic ninja assassin?

I'm not sure that the relevant decision makers (besides Arya herself) know that "Unleash the rogue Faceless Man to kill Cersei" is an option that they have available.

Daenerys herself toasts Arya as the hero of the battle. Davos watched her clutch the battlement stage single-handedly with a custom dragonglass staff. She also fought a fully-armed, fully-armoured Brienne to a standstill in front of Pod, Sansa, Littlefinger and anyone else who happened to be watching. Arya fully explained her powers to Sansa at (almost) the point of a knife last season and then dispatched Littlefinger with one strike in front of the entire Winterfell court. Sansa's proven she can't keep a secret even if her brother's life depends on it. These guys would be deemed to know of Arya's abilities if we were in any show except one written by D&D. Sansa sure as hell knows, and Sansa is basically Littlefinger 2.0, now with Braveheart flavour.

[deuterio12]

Sansa's proven she can't keep a secret even if her brother's life depends on it.

Quite true. For all the people claiming that Daenerys is an out-of-control maniac who would kill anyone who seemed like a threat, she still trusted Jojo Snow to the bitter end despite him being the greatest threat to her power.

If Daenerys really was a ruthless psycopath, she would've had Jojo Snow killed (or chained in her deepest dungeon if that didn't work or she feels like keeping him as a love toy) the moment word started spreading he was the actual rightful king, instead of letting him walk around everywhere, which was what eventually took her down.

[pendell]

Deuterio is correct. I mentioned in the last thread (before episode 5) how Arya could save everyone a lot of grief by explaining her powers and her intentions and everyone agreeing to let her go down there first and do her thing.

But she's an edgelord so... you know how they do things.

It occurs to me that revealing your super-assassin powers and capabilities is counterproductive. At the very least, Arya will now be watched wherever she goes. More likely, she'll have to constantly dodge assassins herself. People will fear her. Better to masquerade as helpless little girl (can't pull it off after destroying the Night King, but maybe pass that off as a fluke) and only reveal her true capabilities to Sansa. "Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead". Ben Franklin said that, but Varys would agree.

Setting off to assassinate Cersei ; she didn't need to notify anyone to ask permission and she certainly didn't need any help. It would only have made things more difficult. So I'm cool with her doing it the way she did.

The reason she didn't assassinate Daenerys herself is because I believe she can't disguise her scent. Drogon would have roasted anyone who didn't have the Targaryan scent, and she doesn't.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[The Pilgrim]

Quite true. For all the people claiming that Daenerys is an out-of-control maniac who would kill anyone who seemed like a threat, she still trusted Jojo Snow to the bitter end despite him being the greatest threat to her power.

If Daenerys really was a ruthless psycopath, she would've had Jojo Snow killed (or chained in her deepest dungeon if that didn't work or she feels like keeping him as a love toy) the moment word started spreading he was the actual rightful king, instead of letting him walk around everywhere, which was what eventually took her down.

Dany needs to keep the ruse that she is a Liberator to herself. So she can only execute people if they give her some kind of excuse, even if it is a quasi-imagined slight. That is why she is willing to let Jon walk around until he gives her an excuse. And that is why Jon Snow, in the last scene, initially dares to stand up to her, but quickly (and uncharacteristically) understands that she is only waiting for an excuse to Dracarys him. So he smiles and plays along and even kisses her, before ending her.

[Dr.Samurai]

It occurs to me that revealing your super-assassin powers and capabilities is counterproductive.

Sure. She doesn't have to go into detail. But she can say she is going to kill Cersei. And when everyone balks just say she will get it done. She literally tells people she is going to kill Cersei when she is there. The point is it's a pretty big deal to kill the Queen when your brother is marching off to war with his bannermen to lay siege to King's Landing.

Setting off to assassinate Cersei ; she didn't need to notify anyone to ask permission and she certainly didn't need any help. It would only have made things more difficult. So I'm cool with her doing it the way she did.

Neither permission or assistance is needed. It's not for Arya's benefit. It's for everyone else's benefit.

Bran and Arya were deliberately not utilized by the writers because it could have avoided the whole question of "do you need to raze the city to the ground".

[diplomancer]

Sure. She doesn't have to go into detail. But she can say she is going to kill Cersei. And when everyone balks just say she will get it done. She literally tells people she is going to kill Cersei when she is there. The point is it's a pretty big deal to kill the Queen when your brother is marching off to war with his bannermen to lay siege to King's Landing.

Neither permission or assistance is needed. It's not for Arya's benefit. It's for everyone else's benefit.

Bran and Arya were deliberately not utilized by the writers because it could have avoided the whole question of "do you need to raze the city to the ground".

Dany did not need to raze the city to the ground to defeat Cersei, as was made clear during the episode (isn't that the whole point that people are complaining about?). Therefore, her motives were different from "removing Cersei from power".

For myself, I would say that she made a mistake as regards Jon, but I'm ok with Pilgrim's interpretation as well. My interpretation is that she thought he was an ineffective lame-ass who would not hurt her because he made a vow, and I can't really blame her for believing that after he did not execute her when she said "let it be fear".

[Red Fel]

Alright. Finale down, time for some thoughts. I'm going to go down the list of characters, how they ended, whether it was appropriate, and my "after the credits roll" on where they would end up (where applicable).

Spoiler

Show

• Daenerys: Let's start with the controversial one. She went full genocidal tyrant, full hubris, and got killed by Jon. Fact is, this is where I saw her arc going. They hung a lampshade on it in the episode - she killed lots of bad guys, and that was fine because they were bad guys, but what happens when there are good people - or even neutral - standing between her and her goal? So her story pretty much had to end this way. Kind of unsurprising that Jon "My Middle Name is Lawful Stupid" put duty over love and killed her dead. Way to imitate a much more developed character.
• Cersei: Her story more or less had to end this way, too. I mentioned it previously, but her whole thing was surrounding herself with the trappings of power and mistaking it for actual power. It was inevitable that she'd finally have all that stripped away - it happened once before, literally - and be left with nothing. It was also pretty probable that she'd die in the arms of her one true love. So not a lot of surprises or upsets here.
• Jaime: This, on the other hand, had the potential for upset. I know a lot of people were bothered by him abandoning character development and growth, but they kind of laid this one out there. He hates himself, and he hates the part of him that needs Cersei, but it has defined him since the beginning. It's fitting, if disappointing, that his story ends with her.
• Tyrion: Finally, one who isn't dead. He becomes Hand of the King. The power and authority he always wanted, except now he doesn't want it because he feels guilty, boo hoo. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about this one. For part of the series, he was an incredibly competent Hand, a cunning strategist and an expert at political maneuvering. And for part of the series, he was a colossal screw-up because the writers needed him to be. So it's hard to say whether he's actually a good Hand, or was just a good one under certain circumstances. But the mournful way he begins to recount the story about the jackass and the honeycomb is kind of depressing. This guy is broken. And let's be honest, as the Hand of a more-or-less absentee King, he'll basically be blamed for the Kingdom's failure.
• Bran: Speaking of. What a wonderful, terrible idea for a King. Let's give the job to a guy who doesn't want it, so that he won't do it. In the inevitable absence of his leadership, civil war is almost a certainty. Great idea. You know what else was a great idea? Just giving away independence to the North - I bet nobody else will ask for that. This guy will probably be executed before he can live out his "king for life" term. Delightful.
• Sansa: The only person who has shown any skill at actual leadership. Queeninnanorf. She has earned it. Unfortunately, the North is still facing the return of a years-long winter, White Walkers or not, and she needs supplies. Now, when there were Seven Kingdoms, the North could count on trade from the South to keep fed during those periods. Now that the Kingdoms and the North are separate, though, there's really no guarantee of that - indeed, what actual incentive do the Kingdoms have to help the North? Congratulations to Queen Sansa of House Stark, First of her Name, Warden of the North, who lead the North into starvation and poverty! She'll probably be executed.
• Arya: First of all, where did her horse go? That horse she mounted last episode? Anyhow, what do you do with an assassin who has seen too much death? Send her away from all the killing. You certainly don't double down on her statements that family comes first by leaving her with family. You send her exploring, because that's totally a character trait we've seen of her before. You know what you find on a mystery sea voyage? Disease, starvation, storms, shipwrecks - lots of things you can't stab. You can say "Not today," to the god of death, but the god of the sea isn't having any of it. She probably dies.
• Jon: On the one hand, he absolutely did not deserve the throne and I'm glad he didn't get it. On the other, Jaime killed a king and he got promoted to royal bodyguard. Jon being sent to lead the Night's Watch is crap, both because there is no longer a need for it - no matter what Tyrion claims - and because Jon was so objectively bad at it that it got him killed last time. But then, apparently, being in the Night's Watch just means being exiled north of the Wall with the Free People? Is that what happened, or did Jon "My Middle Name is Lawful Stupid" abdicate his duty and run off with a drunken ginger and his wonderful puppy? In any event, he probably freezes to death. And his face freezes in that stupid perpetual mope.
• Sam: Sam is the best and deserves every happiness. Presumably, he discovers an interdimensional portal and promptly ditches his crapsack world, posthaste. Although, "A Song of Ice and Fire?" For a show so careful to avoid cliches, how did you fall into the "We wrote a book about our experiences and named it after this movie/show" trap? Also, proposing democracy to a bunch of nobles? Never change, you lovable goof.
• Gendry: He was there, too!

Basically, there were no happy endings. Which I get, that was kind of the point. It was, however, an anticlimax. Nobody got a happy ending, but few of them even seemed satisfied. I never thought I could see so many story arcs reach reasonable closure without the character in some way being fulfilled.

It wasn't bad, per se. I don't hate it. I'm just a little let down, I think.

[Dr.Samurai]

Dany did not need to raze the city to the ground to defeat Cersei, as was made clear during the episode (isn't that the whole point that people are complaining about?). Therefore, her motives were different from "removing Cersei from power".

Yes, of course. We know that. I've been complaining about it for some time.

Be that as it may... that has been the core conflict between Dany and her advisors. They have been framing it as either Dany has to annihilate everyone to take the throne, or she has to play the long game and potentially keep losing assets/resources.

Arya being able to take Cersei out in the blink of an eye changes the conversation.

[The Pilgrim]

Note that if Dany had waited a while before launching the attack on KL, like Sansa asked her to, then Arya and Sandor would have got enough time to arrive at KL, celebrate the Cleganebowl, and end Cersei.

Had anyone told Dany that Arya was en route to KL to kill Cersei, Dany would have only rushed the atack even faster. "No way that brat is stealing my kills again".

[Dr.Samurai]

Note that if Dany had waited a while before launching the attack on KL, like Sansa asked her to, then Arya and Sandor would have got enough time to arrive at KL, celebrate the Cleganebowl, and end Cersei.

Had anyone told Dany that Arya was en route to KL to kill Cersei, Dany would have only rushed the atack even faster. "No way that brat is stealing my kills again".

Fair point .

[BlacKnight]

Note that if Dany had waited a while before launching the attack on KL, like Sansa asked her to, then Arya and Sandor would have got enough time to arrive at KL, celebrate the Cleganebowl, and end Cersei.

Had anyone told Dany that Arya was en route to KL to kill Cersei, Dany would have only rushed the atack even faster. "No way that brat is stealing my kills again".

Dany had no personal score to settle with Cersei before Reghal and Missandrei death.
The only one could be that Cersei was sitting on the IT, but that was so important that Dany went north to fight an unrelated war.

[Dr.Samurai]

Dany had no personal score to settle with Cersei before Reghal and Missandrei death.
The only one could be that Cersei was sitting on the IT, but that was so important that Dany went north to fight an unrelated war.

Also a fair point.

I think the writing could go either way here. Dany could be convinced to allow Arya to go forth and destabilize the region by taking Cersei out. Dany has a history of listening to her advisors and I think Tyrion would be for this idea. At the very least, Arya (traveling alone) would reach King's Landing before the armies do so she could do what she has to by the time Dany and Jon are arriving.

That said, Dany was chomping at the bit to get to King's Landing and finally take the throne. Additionally, I can definitely see her wanting to "take the throne" herself, which probably includes not relying on someone else taking out the Queen.

[Devonix]

They didn't even really need to take the city, that was explained as well. Cersei was hold up, trapped in the city with no way out, and once the ships were destroyed, no way to resupply. She has no real army, she has no way to feed herself or her people. And she has no allies anymore. Just sit on your asses relaxing for a month or two.

[Aventine]

Dany needs to keep the ruse that she is a Liberator to herself. So she can only execute people if they give her some kind of excuse, even if it is a quasi-imagined slight. That is why she is willing to let Jon walk around until he gives her an excuse. And that is why Jon Snow, in the last scene, initially dares to stand up to her, but quickly (and uncharacteristically) understands that she is only waiting for an excuse to Dracarys him. So he smiles and plays along and even kisses her, before ending her.

This is a pretty good description. It's not that she's a ruthless psychopath, it's that she's a fanatic. She's trying to make a better world, so by circular logic anyone who gets in her way is trying to prevent her better world, and thus must be a bad guy, and thus she is justified in killing them. It's like Melisandre being so utterly convinced that she's a good guy and that good guys don't do evil things that she gleefully burns innocent people alive and then pats herself on the back for being such a shining beacon of morality.

[Bah, I take way too long dawdling and typing slowly. How many people now beat me to agreeing with this? Grumble grumble grumble]

---

I have a lot more difficulty with the God Emperor of Dune Westeros idea. Bran's not omniscient, he needed to warg into crows to keep tabs on where the Night King was, and earlier needed to be pointed in the direction of Rhaegar getting married a second time before checking that specific bit of the past. Leto has the benefit of seeing the future, any difficult decision or problem that he'll face he saw long before it arrived and also saw exactly which option takes him in the proper direction. Bran won't have the benefit of always knowing exactly which choice is the best one.

I mean, obviously if you accept the theory that Bran was warging people to manipulate everything so that he ends up on the throne, that's one thing. But without that, I don't see Bran being able to secure the election of his chosen successor. Given how he's acted so far, he doesn't seem all that likely to be deeply involved in actually running the kingdoms, a lot of that probably gets left to the Small Council. The next royal election will be the powerful noble houses struggling among themselves for the throne. How does Bran prevent that? By seeing the past? So he knows which powerful nobles have decided not to support his greenseer heir. After decades of hands-off rule with the Small Council (i.e. powerful nobles) in de facto power, how does Bran ensure elections go the proper way?

I think the only way for King Bran to end remotely well is for him to be drastically different as king than he's been for the past couple seasons of the show. Either the master manipulator warging people when necessary, or an active, dominating presence that can keep the noble houses in line.

[Iruka]

*post credit scenes I would have found acceptable*

1. The smoking ruins of Volantis. A shadow falls over the lava-corridors. Stone men look to the sky and fall back into their crags. Drogon flies in low through the tall canyons and smoking pits of fire. He seems drawn or called by some greater power. There. He finds what he is lookign for. He lowers down toward a mountain top among the volcanos and lands, gingerly placing Dany's corpse onto a stone bier. He falls back, mournful and waits. A circle of red clad women approach from the shadows. They pull back their hoods revealing red-gemstone chokers around the necks of young beautiful women. One we recognize as the high priestess of Rh'llor from Mereen. Another is Quaithe with her strange mask. They circle Dany's body and begin chanting the same prayer Mellisandra used when rasing Jon from the dead. The camera zooms in from above in a direct copy of the night-king's creation from Bran's vision and Dany's eyes snap open. Not cold white ice like the night kings, but ominous, fire-red. (Note: This could also take place is Asshai by the Shadow or beyond it. After all Dany was supposed to go East in order to go West and just skipped over that prophecy like so many other prophecies)

2. As Pod wheels Bran from the chamber leaving his council, he parks him in front of the open sky where the iron throne used to be. He bows and walks away. Bran stares into the sky and smiles a wry smile. Suddenly we are through his eyes and witnessing events from the last three or four seasons from his perspective. We bear witness to the tiny changes he writ through his time and mental manipulation. Changes that led Jon, Dany, Cersei, Jamie and everyone to make the choices they made, to enact the story as he moved it.

The iron pool where the throne once stood cracks and splinters. A weirwood tree rises through the crack, growing from seed to adulthood before our eyes. Bran is pulled from his chair as the tree grows and pulled into the tree, merging in with its vines and twisted bark, becoming the face in the tree. The new throne is created.

2a. We see how he crafted things to make a better world. To defeat the Night King, to defeat Rh'lor, to defeat all the old powers that imperiled the rise of humanity. We are left understanding that it all happened this way because it was the only way to save humanity from the twin perils of ice.... and fire.

2b. We see how he crafted things to make a worse world. Its suddenly made clear to us. The real threat was never the night king, who ONLY sought to destroy Bran and the power he represents. The real threat was never Dany, or Rh'lor, who would have burned the world to save it from him. The real threat was always Bran. Always the 3-eyed raven. And now that he had the power, the position, the influence.... now his real plan could begin.

2c. As 2b except how it ends. As the camera pulls back from the view of history we see Bran smiling, perhaps with a wry chuckle, then he hears a noise and turns. Pod has returned. "What is it?" Bran asks then stops as he realizes. He did not see this. Did not see Pod returning. Does not see him now.
"Death has many faces. And I have seen yours." Pod says, then either A> produces a valeryian steel dagger and slices Brans' throat. or B> (if not merged into the tree) pushes him over the edge in a mirror of how he was pushed from the tower in the first episode. Or C> uses the valerian steel dagger to slash the vines holding Bran to the tree. Bran calls out for him to stop as he yanks Bran free, bloody gouts of sap like fluid pour outs as he hacks Bran free, then begins dragging him over to the edge. Bran protests fall on deaf ears as Pod dangles him over the edge. Suddenly Bran sees an image of long ago. The winterfell tower. Jamie. "The things I do for love" and pushes him out the window. He's back in the present. Pod is glaring at him. "The things I do for love." He lets go. Bran plummets to his death screaming. Pod turns and walks away, passing through the chamber and past the dead body of Pod, face carved off, laying strewn on the hall. The Pod shape peels off its face, dropping it disdainfully on the ground. We never see her face as she walks away.

3. It is some time later and in the frozen north. Jon and Ghost track north, ever north through the woods past the map. He is searching for somethigng he knows is out there. Something that he has sought since he returned to the North. He finds it. The ruins of an ancient stone circle, the home of the white walkers. It appears empty, abandoned. He finally relaxes. His quiet fears are unrealized. The night king really is gone and his army with him. Then Ghost whimpers and he hears a shifting in the snow behind him. He turns, pulling longclaw free of its scabbard as the camera rushes toward him. His eyes go wide in terror. And the screen goes black.

What we have seen so far where mere opening moves. Vying for advantageous positions, broadening of power bases, discarding old game pieces of diminished usefulness because they had become too predictable.

With Bran on the Weirwood Throne, Westeros is once again unified under the Old Gods. The separating, weakening barrier of the Wall is broken, the last Targaryen on his way to become the King even further in the North.
Daenerys tempered the blade of her will at the price of her one true love, marking it as the final step towards becoming Azor Ahai, R'hllor mightiest tool. Ready to combine both of his aspects, Light and Shadow, by ruling both Valyria and Asshai.

After episode 3, when many people were complaining about Arya killing the Night King, replacing Jon, a friend of mine pointed out "After all, if it was not to kill the Night King and save mankind, why did the Lord of Light bring Jon back from the dead?" and my immediate answer was "To stop Daenerys, the Mad Queen who burns alive her defeated enemies , from controlling the throne (am I the only one who thinks Daenerys is a villain?)".

The Lord of Light, well known for preferring his sacrifices extra crisp, ponies up a free ressurection to stop Daenerys from burning people?

My wife providing Drogon's internal monologue after finding Daenrys stabbed by Jon:

"Mommy? Mommy?!" *nudge nudge*
"Oh no! Mommy's dead! How did this happen?!"

*looks at Iron throne, sees that it's made of swords*
*looks at Dany, sees knife sticking out of her*

"ARG YOU KILLED MOMMY!! BURN!!"
*Sets throne on fire*

"Oh hi John!"

Now I want all scenes with internal monologues for the dragons. Preferably by someone who usually does voice overs for kittens.

[Name_Here]

."The most powerful lords" didn't do anything when Sansa said she was bailing out, so they don't seem exactly that strong and should be replaced pretty soon by more ambitious people, or be easy enough to manipulate.

The ambitious people were wiped out like 3 monarchs ago. The nobles of Westeros are going to be punks for a while going forward and the people gathered there were the cream of the crop.

Bronn's the mercenary new Master of the Coin, what could possibly go wrong?

Oh plenty but I doubt that not paying debts owed would be one with Tyrion at the helm.

[Dr.Samurai]

I disagree. Yara is quite ambitious. Everyone we've seen from Dorne has been ambitious.

We don't know all the Houses but it's safe to assume they run the gamut so some will be ambitious. Randyll Tarly was offered Highgarden and that was enough to get him to side with the Lannisters.

So I'm not convinced that this was the best outcome for Westeros.

[Dienekes]

Yeah, perfectly honest, once the North split, the Iron Islands and maybe Dorne would probably split. The Iron Island gets actually nothing for staying under the Raven's rule, and Dorne no longer has the social ties to the throne that got them to join in the first place. The rest probably couldn't. The Westerlands, Stormlands, Reach, and Vale are all too economically tangled to really make a go at independence, at least not for long. The Riverlands... under a strong ruler maybe could have done something? But they're under Edmure Tully, the Floppy Fish, it is frankly remarkable that he survived this long. I half expect him to drown in the near future when he takes a bath and forgets how to swim.

[Narkis]

My wife providing Drogon's internal monologue after finding Daenrys stabbed by Jon:

"Mommy? Mommy?!" *nudge nudge*
"Oh no! Mommy's dead! How did this happen?!"

*looks at Iron throne, sees that it's made of swords*
*looks at Dany, sees knife sticking out of her*

"ARG YOU KILLED MOMMY!! BURN!!"
*Sets throne on fire*

"Oh hi John!"

I liked Drogon the Philosopher better as an explanation:

Spoiler

Show

[Lemmy]

I liked Drogon the Philosopher better as an explanation:

Spoiler

Show

Heh... That's actually hilarious.

Who could've known Drogon was so educated in politics and philosophy. XD

[The Pilgrim]

Yeah, perfectly honest, once the North split, the Iron Islands and maybe Dorne would probably split. The Iron Island gets actually nothing for staying under the Raven's rule, and Dorne no longer has the social ties to the throne that got them to join in the first place. The rest probably couldn't. The Westerlands, Stormlands, Reach, and Vale are all too economically tangled to really make a go at independence, at least not for long. The Riverlands... under a strong ruler maybe could have done something? But they're under Edmure Tully, the Floppy Fish, it is frankly remarkable that he survived this long. I half expect him to drown in the near future when he takes a bath and forgets how to swim.

Maybe that's what happens. But, honestly, none of these places got enough development in the TV Show to justify wasting a minute of screen time explaining that they went independent. Who cares what happens with Dorne or RiverChickenrun? The North got the independence because the blunt of the show featured that territory, and the show runners wanted a scene of Sansa geting crowned a Queen. But the rest of Westeros didn't get much screentime for the viewers to care what happens there. So they get Emperor-God Bran to fix the mess and let's call it a day.

[pendell]

So will the sequel be when the next Three-Eyed Raven, whom Brann has taken as apprentice, succumbs to chaos and starts a revolt known as the Horus Heresy?

In the grim and dark future that is westeros there is only war.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

[Dienekes]

Maybe that's what happens. But, honestly, none of these places got enough development in the TV Show to justify wasting a minute of screen time explaining that they went independent. Who cares what happens with Dorne or RiverChickenrun? The North got the independence because the blunt of the show featured that territory, and the show runners wanted a scene of Sansa geting crowned a Queen. But the rest of Westeros didn't get much screentime for the viewers to care what happens there. So they get Emperor-God Bran to fix the mess and let's call it a day.

The Iron Islands did get screentime, enough for Euron to get declared king there, I believe. So did Dorne actually. Mind you, we mostly hated the screentime given to Dorne but they got it.

I suppose that's part of what annoys me about this final conclusion of the show. Because I care about the social and political realities of Westeros. The first four seasons have entire plot lines that are completely dedicated to the social and political realities of Westeros. It's only at the finish stretch we get that ignored for grand standing character drama that really isn't even all that good.