Death Battle 5: Mister Rogers in a Bloodstained Sweater

[Delicious Taffy]

Can we get a consensus on what everybody means when they say "Infinite"? You're all saying it like there's a specific weight and connotation you're putting behind the word and it's self-evident what those are, but clearly there's a miscommunication going on.

No meaningful discussion can be had if, for example, Rater is using the word "dark" to mean "grim and bleak", but Peelee is using it to mean "absent of light sources", and they're both talking about Winnie the Pooh's level in Kingdom Hearts 3.

[TeChameleon]

I suspect that Cell's 'infinite energy' could most reasonably be compared to a Decanter of Endless Water. It's not going to run out, ever, but there's a set rate of flow, and if whatever you're doing with it is using up the water faster than that rate of flow, it's not going to accomplish much, despite being endless.

Because, quite frankly, if Cell had literally infinite energy at his fingertips at all times, there's nothing that anything short of Zeno erasing that reality that's going to so much as dent him, because the strength of the material form needed to contain that infinite energy would of necessity also be infinite, i.e. completely indestructible. He'd be Garlic Jr. with a brain and no obligation to the dragonballs.

[Anteros]

Mewtwo is interesting because not a single one of the characters that make up Cell has shown any kind of psychic resistance. I do, however, wonder if Mewtwo has anything that will keep Cell down. I'd give him first blood and possibly first knockdown, though.

AMAZO, if I remember right. Or "The Android" if we're just going by the cartoon.

I wonder what AMAZO would get from copying Cell. But, to be honest, I see no way Cell vs. AMAZO comes up Cell. At all. He's the entire Justice League at the same time, except without their weaknesses. Like fighting Superman, but as fast as Flash, and wielding a Green Lantern ring.

AMAZO is a plot device. His only weakness, ironically, are people able to absorb powers via magic. Basically, his own trick, but magical. Steal AMAZO's powers and clobber him with them. Cell can't do that.

Eh, he's also lost to Batman on more than one occasion. Comics just aren't consistent at all.

[Devonix]

Eh, he's also lost to Batman on more than one occasion. Comics just aren't consistent at all.

There's JLU Cartoon Amazo and DC Comics Amazo and they are incredibly different. Amazo's powerful in the comics and other medium. But no versions of Amazo have been as powerful as the one depicted in the JLU cartoon.

As for the book of Infinite Pages. Let's set the record straight. It does have infinite pages. But they're not physical things. The place where the book is held is a dimension where forgotten comic book characters go. It's a place of imagination where things both exist and do not exist. So it does not follow the laws of physics.

The book is supposed to hold within it every story that can be told, has been told, will never be told. It's the imagination of every being that has ever existed and will ever exist. It's Story itself.

Holding the book is you holding the weight not of pages, it's you holding the weight of possibility. It is an actual physical weight in that universe, but it's not the weight of infinite pages.

[Man on Fire]

...I don't see how you can say I'm showing the hypocrisy of magic vs science.

"This is a magic book that violates physics, thus we cannot assume that physics affects it as normal."

It is not physically possible for infinite pages to fit within a finite space, IE, a book. Thus, for infinite pages to fit in a book, we must assume that conventional physics doesn't apply. Thus, you cannot say for certain that the book has infinite mass within it's finite volume, and thus, can't assume that it weighs infinity.

Dragon Ball, meanwhile, has well established that it doens't run on unconventional physics and that perpetual energy exists. Cell has two perpetual energy devices integrated into his body, so it is fair to assume that he himself has an unlimited/infinite amount of energy.

There is no hypocrisy. The reason for the inconsistency is becuase they are two completely unrelated things. You're looking at the word "infinite" and assuming that there's a relationship between the two arguments. There is no such relationship.

My answer is different becuase there is no evidence for the book weighing infinite pounds while there are explicit statements that the androids, and thus, Cell, have infinite energy.

It isn't hypocrisy to give different answers to completely different questions.

1. It is not possible for a machine to produce or store infinite energy without running into a ton of issues and breaking.
2. DCU also established it doesn't run on conventional physics several times, like when Superman pushed the Earth despite the fact application of force like this should just have ground give up under him.
3. Yes there is a relationship between them because they are two cases of contained infinity {Scrubbed}
4. There is no evidence of androids having infinite energy anymore than there is of Palpatine having one because he said UNLIMITED POWER once.

As for the book of Infinite Pages. Let's set the record straight. It does have infinite pages. But they're not physical things. The place where the book is held is a dimension where forgotten comic book characters go. It's a place of imagination where things both exist and do not exist. So it does not follow the laws of physics.

The book is supposed to hold within it every story that can be told, has been told, will never be told. It's the imagination of every being that has ever existed and will ever exist. It's Story itself.

Holding the book is you holding the weight not of pages, it's you holding the weight of possibility. It is an actual physical weight in that universe, but it's not the weight of infinite pages.

If the possibility of a story has physical weight and the book contains infinite stories, therefore infinite possibilities, then it has infinite weight.

[Lemmy]

4. There is no evidence of androids having infinite energy anymore than there is of Palpatine having one because he said UNLIMITED POWER once.

It's infinity stamina, not power. Basically, it's as if they regenerated their energy faster than they can spend, but are still limited by their maximum storage and output capacity. This is shown and stated multiple times (and this is Toriyama. 99.99% of the time, the charActers saying something is as good as a word-of-god).

Conversely, Cell is never stated or shown to have infinity energy/stamina. Every claim that he has such an ability is just conjecture and wishful thinking.

If the possibility of a story has physical weight and the book contains infinite stories, therefore infinite possibilities, then it has infinite weight.

Except the book clearly doesn't have iinfinity weight... As that would require infinity mass and the book is clearly not occupying infinity space. It also doesn't turn into a infinitely large black hole (or even crush its pedestal). Now... You can argue that that's is because it's magic... But by that same argument, magic means it doesn't necessarily have infinity pages or infinity weight.

[Peelee]

(and this is Toriyama. 99.99% of the time, the charActers saying something is as good as a word-of-god).

I dunno, Frieza said something about five minutes once....

What have I invited onto myself?

[Man on Fire]

It's infinity stamina, not power. Basically, it's as if they regenerated their energy faster than they can spend, but are still limited by their maximum storage and output capacity. This is shown and stated multiple times (and this is Toriyama. 99.99% of the time, the charActers saying something is as good as a word-of-god).

Conversely, Cell is never stated or shown to have infinity energy/stamina. Every claim that he has such an ability is just conjecture and wishful thinking.

Except the book clearly doesn't have iinfinity weight... As that would require infinity mass and the book is clearly not occupying infinity space. It also doesn't turn into a infinitely large black hole (or even crush its pedestal). Now... You can argue that that's is because it's magic... But by that same argument, magic means it doesn't necessarily have infinity pages or infinity weight.

Then they don't have infinite energy or stamina, they just don't tire easily. Anyone with healing factor in Marvel or DC has infinite energy since their muscles regenerate faster than they tire them most of tye time, X-23 stated so about herself.

And bybthe logic you apply to the book, it can still easily have infinite weight and infinite pages, dismissing it just because you assume it is magic (despite no evidence for that) is disengenious.

[HolyDraconus]

.... which is why I said "unlimited" compared to infinite.

[Vahnavoi]

You're not going to get anywhere with this debate, because the root source, the original DB manga, never qualifies what it means by "infinite energy" nor is the matter ever discussed in-depth as far as pertains to Cell.

However, before Goku gives up and hands Cell the Senzu, after blowing Cell's head off, Goku thinks and then directly states to Cell that Cell's Ki got lower as a result of Goku's attack. This heavily implies that Cell's energy is NOT infinite or at least that Goku can permanently damage him. On page 87 of my translation of Volume (Tankobon) 34, Cell even says himself to Goku that he (Cell) has lost strength, in attempt to goad Goku into eating a Senzu and continue their fight.

Now, Cell could've been bluffing - wouldn't have been the only time he did. But if you go with the idea that characters are reliable sources of information, then Cell explicitly doesn't have infinite energy, in any sense of the word.

[Prime32]

Cell at maximum strength isn't just 17 + 18; it's 17 + 18 + himself. The 17 + 18 batteries automatically replenish themselves, but his own energy doesn't. And if he wants to use any attack stronger than the Androids can put out, he has to tap all three energy sources at once. You can tire Cell, just not completely exhaust him.

[Lord Raziere]

It's a discussion! Both sides are having it. Both sides are trying to convince the other.

Honestly, if hearing arguments against your theory causes you pain, I suggesting not ferociously discussing said theory on the internet. It's the internet. People will argue. And anyone "making up their mind" and having full conviction of something is simply not enough to convince others (nor should it be).

I'm sorry for being unreasonable.

I will stop now, I don't think its a good idea for me to participate in this thread anymore, so I'll just leave.

[Rynjin]

I dunno, Frieza said something about five minutes once....

What have I invited onto myself?

Just a quick clarification that Frieza in character admits he goofed there, and Goku points it out too; he underpowered the blast because he was subconsciously afraid he'd kill himself with it.

[HolyDraconus]

Cough cough... anywho.
Winner is.

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Phantom. Duh. Like I dont think anyone saw this going the other way.

And next time is.

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She-ra vs Wonderwoman. Huh.. I honestly have no clue on this one. WW scales to supes though, so I FEEL she should have this in the bag, but I haven't kept up with She-ra to know for certain. You tell me.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

<opens thread>

Ah yes, the Book of Infinite Pages. Never change, DB Discussion.

[Rater202]

Cough cough... anywho.
Winner is.

Spoiler

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Phantom. Duh. Like I dont think anyone saw this going the other way.

And next time is.

Spoiler

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She-ra vs Wonderwoman. Huh.. I honestly have no clue on this one. WW scales to supes though, so I FEEL she should have this in the bag, but I haven't kept up with She-ra to know for certain. You tell me.

Spoiler

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Huh. Could have sworn that they're gonna screw Danny.

[Man on Fire]

And next time is.

Spoiler

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She-ra vs Wonderwoman. Huh.. I honestly have no clue on this one. WW scales to supes though, so I FEEL she should have this in the bag, but I haven't kept up with She-ra to know for certain. You tell me.

Spoiler: next time

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Which She-Ra? New one? Original? Any She-Ra that can scale to He-Man can actually be a challenge for Diana because they have material to scale He-Man to Superman, they crossed over multiple times.

Also, I'm disappointed because I was hoping it's gonna be She-Ra vs Sailor Moon

Huh. Could have sworn that they're gonna screw Danny.

What's the point of people putting things in spoilers if you're just going to spell them out loud for everyone to see?

[Rynjin]

What's the point of people putting things in spoilers at all? It's not as if the outcomes are even remotely the most entertaining parts of these videos.

[Forum Explorer]

What's the point of people putting things in spoilers at all? It's not as if the outcomes are even remotely the most entertaining parts of these videos.

It might not be the most entertaining part, but it is still an entertaining part, and having the answer spoiled ruins that. Seriously, we aren't asking for a lot. Spoilers are a common courtesy throughout this website and a delay til everyone actually has access to the video isn't that long of a time to use them.


Also I'm really really sick of them using Wonder Woman. This is the third time already.

[Delicious Taffy]

I'm really really sick of them using Wonder Woman. This is the third time already.

At least it's not Deadpool or Batman again.

[Traab]

This time,

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As soon as I saw the damage feat they gave the dragon lad I knew it was over. Sometimes I get surprised anyways, but thats mainly when the numbers are so huge that I lose track of which one represents a larger amount like, is septillion smaller than vigtillion? This was fairly low end on the scale for feats so it was easier to keep track of.

Next time

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My first thought was a disbelieving snort as I dont recall she-ra ever being a planet buster, but then someone mentioned the superman he man scaling thing. Im still saying wonder woman has it on lock, unless she-ra has some absurd outlier feat that happened once then never again.

And seriously, its not asking too much that for the first day or two after the video comes out that you show a little common courtesy and put it in spoilers. It only just came out on youtube.

[Seppl]

Next time

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My first thought was a disbelieving snort as I dont recall she-ra ever being a planet buster, but then someone mentioned the superman he man scaling thing. Im still saying wonder woman has it on lock, unless she-ra has some absurd outlier feat that happened once then never again.

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When we saw He-Man in Death Battle, he bench-pressed a moon. Surely, there must be some crossover episode where he and She-Ra are competing against each other and come out as roughly equals.

[Forum Explorer]

Spoiler: This time

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I'm not surprised by the win going to Danny Phantom, but I am legitimately surprised that Jake apparently never had to throw off mind control or see through invisibility before.

Spoiler: Next time

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If they go with the new She-Ra stuff, I think Wonder Woman has it in the bag. Actually, I think she does anyways, because even if She-Ra scales to He-Man, Wonder Woman scales to Superman, and pushing the moon isn't that noteworthy of a feat for Supes.

[Kitten Champion]

Obviously the next battle should've been Sea Hawk versus Simon Belmont from Captain N: Game Master. but DB are cowards.

[Man on Fire]

Spoiler: Next time

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If they go with the new She-Ra stuff, I think Wonder Woman has it in the bag. Actually, I think she does anyways, because even if She-Ra scales to He-Man, Wonder Woman scales to Superman, and pushing the moon isn't that noteworthy of a feat for Supes.

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Going by the clips used in the preview it's gonna be the original, likely composited with all more consistent versions like DC's comics. Similar to how they've done Optimus Prime, Sonic or Shredder. Modern She-Ra is too different from the original.

I'm still saying they should have She-Ra fight Sailor Moon, anyone agrees?

[HolyDraconus]

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Going by the clips used in the preview it's gonna be the original, likely composited with all more consistent versions like DC's comics. Similar to how they've done Optimus Prime, Sonic or Shredder. Modern She-Ra is too different from the original.

I'm still saying they should have She-Ra fight Sailor Moon, anyone agrees?

I rather they used Archie comics Sonic vs Goku at this point. lol

[KatsOfLoathing]

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Going by the clips used in the preview it's gonna be the original, likely composited with all more consistent versions like DC's comics. Similar to how they've done Optimus Prime, Sonic or Shredder. Modern She-Ra is too different from the original.

I'm still saying they should have She-Ra fight Sailor Moon, anyone agrees?

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It would probably make more sense to use Sailor Moon, yeah.

That being said, I wouldn't be against some kind of Magical Girl Battle Royale with all of the big franchises turning up their main characters. But that'll probably never happen.

[Dragonus45]

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It would probably make more sense to use Sailor Moon, yeah.

That being said, I wouldn't be against some kind of Magical Girl Battle Royale with all of the big franchises turning up their main characters. But that'll probably never happen.

Hard to say who even gets into a magical girl battle royal let alone wins it. It’s a fight I think is won by who has the most strange and esoteric powers, and I think sailor moon could legit cast wish in the manga. Which doesn’t even begin to get into the weirdness of Madoka depending on if using your wish to murder all your openness would be allowed. Depending on how you define magical girl Magic Knight Rayearth could be in the table and those mechs clear out a ton of chaff, but in sheer fire power goes Nanoha doing her best impression of an orbital death laser might be the mark to beat if enough opposing wish shenanigans cancel out.

[Lemmy]

Would Sailor Moon even be a match for She-Ra?

She-Ra throws mountains at people... I don't remember SM doing anything like that, but then again, I only watched a few episodes here and there because of my sister.

With WW, there's at least a potential match, I think... Although there are so many BS one-time-only feats by WW that I think she'll win somewhat easily... Although, there might be a random episode where She-Ra punches a star into oblivion or something, so... Who knows?

[Man on Fire]

Would Sailor Moon even be a match for She-Ra?

She-Ra throws mountains at people... I don't remember SM doing anything like that, but then again, I only watched a few episodes here and there because of my sister.

With WW, there's at least a potential match, I think... Although there are so many BS one-time-only feats by WW that I think she'll win somewhat easily... Although, there might be a random episode where She-Ra punches a star into oblivion or something, so... Who knows?

Sailor Scouts are insanely strong, Usagi once forgot to measure her strength and accidentally jumped to the orbit and then landed back with no scratch. And that was early on in the series.