Viability of Elf Generalist Wizard + Domain Wizard "Leapfrog" combo (cont. from 2016)

[Elves]

Continuing this thread from 2016, which is discussing a theoretical combo to get 9th level casting as a 1st level wizard.

Short explanation of the combo.

Where the thread left off it was discussing whether domain wizard and elven generalist can be combined in the first place.

One point made was that you probably have to choose a class before you choose a substitution level for that class.

So let's look at the language, in the order they apply:

“A domain wizard cannot also be a specialist wizard.”
“This substitution feature replaces the standard wizard’s ability to specialize in a school of magic.”

The favorable interpretation is:

1) Domain wizard and specialist wizard are incompatible, but DW doesn't say that you actually lose the option to specialize. Hence, the option itself is still there, albeit unusable, and can be traded for Elven Generalist.

The unfavorable interpretation is:

2) Syntactical. If you cannot do something, you do not have the ability to do it. Specialization isn't a class feature, since it's listed in a sidebar and not under Class Features or on the class table; rather, it's an option, or as EG puts it, an "ability". Domain wizard does not have the "ability to specialize", because it can't choose to.


There is also an invalid argument that EG can't apply to domain wizard because it only applies to the "standard" wizard's ability to specialize. This is invalid because "standard" in this context means "as opposed to elven generalist", not standard wizard as opposed to class variants.


Which of these readings do you think is more right?

[enderlord99]

The last time I saw domain wizard mentioned on this forum, someone threatened to kill my dog if I don't use it, even if the DM specifically forbids it.

I have nothing else to add to this discussion, so I'll leave now.

[Vizzerdrix]

Why would anyone ever want to play an elf, when they could go changeling and have ALL of the familiars, or be a dwarf and not be an elf?

[DarkSoul]

Doesn't matter if you can be an elven generalist domain wizard or not, the rest of the "combo" doesn't work. RAW, combine the ACF's if you want, nothing explicitly allows or prohibits it.

[Elves]

Why would anyone ever want to play an elf, when they could go changeling and have ALL of the familiars, or be a dwarf and not be an elf?

Elves get 4 bonus feats, humans only get one. And an elf should never be ashamed about exercising that option, because WOTC made it abundantly clear that they're alone in the world.

Doesn't matter if you can be an elven generalist domain wizard or not, the rest of the "combo" doesn't work.

Why not?

nothing explicitly allows or prohibits it.

True for a lot of things, that's why interpretation is required.

[Sereg]

If they are both replacing specialising, then taking one means that specialising is no longer available for the other to replace. So I would say it doesn't work

[Elves]

DW is not replacing anything; rather the question is what it means to have the ability to do something.

[Sereg]

I consider losing the ability to be replacing. And yes, if you can no longer do something, you have lost the ability. If you can't do something, you can't do it. The second interpretation is the only one that makes sense to me

[Blackhawk748]

Why not?

Because you don't get a slot when you use Versatile Spellcaster to up your spells. Otherwise Fixed List Casters would get all of their's when they did this trick.

[Silvercrys]

Alright... I'm also going to say you can combine Elven Generalist Wizard and Domain Wizard, and I'm going to step-by-step Redmage125's OP from the 2016 thread to see where I end up from there.

-------------

As long as you don't choose a school specialization, you can be a Domain Wizard. That's the RAW: "A domain wizard cannot also be a specialist wizard; in exchange for the versatility given up by specializing in a domain instead of an entire school..."

The latter bit does not read (to me) as rules text, it merely provides context for the caster level boost given to Domain Wizards on their Domain spells. A stronger argument is that later on it says that "unlike Specialist Wizards, Domain Wizards do not need to select prohibited schools", but I don't find that particularly persuasive, either, it's just clarifying that you aren't a specialist wizard and don't need to prohibit schools.

Elven Generalist Wizard says specifically that it replaces your ability to specialize in a school of magic; if you apply DW first, you simply are not allowed to choose a specialization, but EGW isn't a specialization anyway. If you apply EGW first, you can still choose to be a Domain Wizard because you aren't choosing a school to specialize in by choosing a Domain. As long as you aren't a Domain Wizard and a Specialist Wizard at the same time, you're clear.

-------------

Versatile Spellcaster doesn't actually specify that you need to expend spontaneous spell slots or that you cannot expend spell slots containing a prepared spell. You need 1 empty spell slot out of your 5 level 1 slots to continue qualifying for Versatile Spellcaster through Alacritous Cogitation, though, because if you don't have an empty spell slot, you can't spontaneously cast spells anymore.

So, since you have Versatile Spellcaster, you can technically cast 2nd level spells by expending 2 1st level spell slots. This allows you to "know" your 2nd level domain spell, and this would, naturally, work the same way as spells learned by the Wizard through a level up where they also magically appear in your spellbook. So you can certainly cast your second level Domain spell using Versatile Spellcaster; it's been in your spellbook since you began play with Versatile Spellcaster.

Even if it didn't, you could ~probably cast a Heightened spell (you already need one flaw for this build, might as well take another).

And even if you couldn't do that, you can almost definitely scribe higher level spells into your spellbook using time/money as long as you can decipher them, and spells in your spellbook are "known" by the PHB definition (or, rather, they're "learned", there is apparently some debate as to whether "learned" is the same thing as "known" in contexts like this one and for the Hathran prestige class).

-------------

On floating slots up, Domain Wizard says "a domain wizard gains one bonus spell per spell level, which must be filled with the spell from that level of the domain spell list..."

EGW says: "The elf wizard may also prepare one additional spell of her highest spell level each day. Unlike the specialist wizard ability, this spell may be of any school."

Under the most restrictive interpretation, both slots only care about the highest level of slot you already have. This is definitely, 100% what was intended.

But by RAW, the Domain Wizard is poorly edited and says you already had a 9th level spell all along, and it has your 9th level domain spell in it (or a metamagicked version of a lower level domain spell).

Even if you go halfway between and give a bonus slot of a level you are capable of casting, you still "climb" a spell level each day, because... On D1, you can cast a 2nd level spell so you get a bonus 2nd level spell slot/spell prepared from both ACFs. On D2, you can use those level 2 spells to cast your level 3 Domain spell, and can cast level 3 spells which gives you level 3 slots. On D3 you get level 4 spells. Etc.

Or, rather, it would work that way except for the thing that actually breaks the cheese. Caster levels. From the SRD:

"You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level."

You don't have a high enough caster level to "choose" to cast your 2nd level spell at a high enough caster level to actually cast it, which means you actually can't cast a 2nd level spell, so you actually don't know your 2nd level domain spell, etc. etc. Precocious Apprentice is the only way to actually cast a spell at a lower caster level without a fast progression class, as far as I know, and it limits you to a 2nd level spell.

Early entry tricks using Versatile Spellcaster generally require Practiced Spellcaster or some other kind of CL shenanigans to get a high enough caster level for this reason. Favored Soul 1/Sorcerer 4/Mystic Theruge 10 can arguably use Versatile Spellcaster, Heighten Spell, and Practiced Spellcaster (Favored Soul) to qualify for MT because PS gives you a CL of 5 for Favored Soul, allowing you to cast a 2nd level Favored Soul spell at CL 4 or 5.

Buuut I'm pretty sure that's the only thing stopping the trick.

[Elves]

Because you don't get a slot when you use Versatile Spellcaster to up your spells. Otherwise Fixed List Casters would get all of their's when they did this trick.

One slot is coming from EGW. The other slot is coming from DW. VS doesn't have to grant a slot.

With caster level 4th you can do this even more easily with the Extra Slot feat.



Re: Silvercrys.

You can't apply EGW before Domain Wizard because variant classes aren't ACFs but rather are their own base classes.

But by RAW, the Domain Wizard is poorly edited and says you already had a 9th level spell all along, and it has your 9th level domain spell in it.

Well, it "must be filled" with that spell, so the slot is there all along but not pre-prepared.


Your caster level argument could be right but also implies that Versatile Spellcaster is useless in the absence of CL boosters.

[Blackhawk748]

Your caster level argument could be right but also implies that Versatile Spellcaster is useless in the absence of CL boosters.

Useless for doing weird things like this, not for what it was intended for, namely using two lower slots to get a higher one that you already have.

[Elves]

Fair cop. Might even be good design. I'll check what CL boosters are available at low levels.

[DarkSoul]

One slot is coming from EGW. The other slot is coming from DW. VS doesn't have to grant a slot.

You're not getting extra slots, because you can't already cast spells of the level DW or EGW try to grant the slots for. The number of 2nd-level spell slots a 1st-level wizard has is -- (null). Not 0. (-- + 2) does not equal 2. Read the rest of the original thread if you still think it works; this isn't a discussion I'm willing to have again.

[Mato]

Why not?

Precarious apprentice does not give you the ability to cast 2nd level spells, the feat even says such & the FAQ agrees. Wizards cannot take versatile spellcaster and spontaneous divinations doesn't make them a spontaneous spellcaster according to the RC.

There also isn't any proof VS's ability to combine even lets you cast a higher level spell in the purposed context. Like the examples is combining two 2nds for a 3rd you already know or 1sts for a silent 1st, that doesn't prove it you don't need to know a 2nd & don't need access to 2nds & don't have to have the CL for 2nds & can ignore all the other related rules required to cast 2nds.

And yes, there are limits on alternative class features & class substitution levels. You can't trade something away twice. This thing has always been impossible, but people want the holy grail of accelerated casting and will lie, cheat, and BS their way in desperation to achieve it. It's amazing how few people have heard of how manipulate form in that regard...

[Elves]

You're not getting extra slots, because you can't already cast spells of the level DW or EGW try to grant the slots for. The number of 2nd-level spell slots a 1st-level wizard has is -- (null). Not 0. (-- + 2) does not equal 2. Read the rest of the original thread if you still think it works; this isn't a discussion I'm willing to have again.

If you're referring to bonus slots from a high ability score, those aren't required. Without them you still end up after 8 days with normal slots at 1st, 1 domain slot from 2nd through 8th, and 1 domain slot plus 1 EGW slot at 9th.

CL does end up nixing this.

Precarious apprentice does not give you the ability to cast 2nd level spells, the feat even says such & the FAQ agrees. Wizards cannot take versatile spellcaster.

Spontaneous casting is through Alacritous Cogitation. Precocious apprentice doesn't feature. VS doesn't have a clause like that; it only specifies "knows".

And yes, there are limits on alternative class features & class substitution levels. You can't trade something away twice.

Domain Wizard explicitly doesn't trade away the option to specialize, nor counts as specializing. That's not what the question of whether you can combine them is about.

[DarkSoul]

If you're referring to bonus slots from a high ability score, those aren't required. Without them you still end up after 8 days with normal slots at 1st, 1 domain slot from 2nd through 8th, and 1 domain slot plus 1 EGW slot at 9th.

I'm not. I'm referring to how spell slots work, what are available at a given level, and the fact that you're not saying anything that wasn't discussed and refuted three years ago.

[Silvercrys]

Precarious apprentice does not give you the ability to cast 2nd level spells, the feat even says such & the FAQ agrees. Wizards cannot take versatile spellcaster and spontaneous divinations doesn't make them a spontaneous spellcaster according to the RC.

I don't agree with this reading of Precocious Apprentice. It doesn't explicitly say you aren't able to cast 2nd level spells, it just says that when you become able to cast second level spells (normally) the slot changes into a regular bonus slot.

There also isn't any proof VS's ability to combine even lets you cast a higher level spell in the purposed context. Like the examples is combining two 2nds for a 3rd you already know or 1sts for a silent 1st, that doesn't prove it you don't need to know a 2nd & don't need access to 2nds & don't have to have the CL for 2nds & can ignore all the other related rules required to cast 2nds.

If you can expend two first level spell slots to cast a silent 1st level spell at level 1, you can cast 2nd level spells early with Versatile Spellcaster. Since you can cast 2nd level spells, Domain Wizard says you know your 2nd level Domain spell and you can cast it with Versatile Spellcaster.

And yes, there are limits on alternative class features & class substitution levels. You can't trade something away twice. This thing has always been impossible, but people want the holy grail of accelerated casting and will lie, cheat, and BS their way in desperation to achieve it. It's amazing how few people have heard of how manipulate form in that regard...

I agree that this doesn't give you 9s at level 1, but because of the fact that you don't have the caster level to cast 2nd level spells. Not with your characterization of Domain Wizard and EGW combining. I'm also not ~quite sure it's as cheesy as Manipulate Form tricks, partly because Manipulate Form could grant you a cast level of 100 at level 1 if you wanted it to.

[Elves]

I'm not. I'm referring to how spell slots work, what are available at a given level, and the fact that you're not saying anything that wasn't discussed and refuted three years ago.

The refutation isn't about spell slots in the first place.


As noted in the OG thread, the problem with the PHB p171 rule is that it's inconsistently applied and makes various things nonfunctional. Wild Mage simply doesn't function under this ruling (you can't roll to increase the CL of a spell you can't cast in the first place), nor does Unseen Seer. Chameleon casts spells as a wizard yet gets 2nd level spells at CL 2, meaning they can't use them.

[Silvercrys]

Chameleon doesn't break anymore than Ur-Priest does; they have an exception because they are specifically granted the ability to cast 2nd level spells at a lower cast level.

I'm not as familiar with Wild Mage, but it isn't "broken" (i.e. non-functional) with this ruling. If your surge isn't enough to make your caster level high enough to cast the spell, the spell fizzles per the Spell Failure section. It just makes the class even worse than it already was.

[Doctor Awkward]

A substitution level is a level of a given class that you take
instead of the level described for the standard class. Selecting
a substitution level is not the same as multiclassing—you
remain within the class for which the substitution level
is taken. The class features of the substitution level simply
replace those of the standard level.

Based on that definition, a racial substitution level is, for other rules considerations, essentially no different than taking a level in the standard class. You mere alter the class features at the respective level as indicated-- either replacing them, adding them, or subtracting them.

Generalist Wizardry: A 1st-level elf wizard begins play
with one extra 1st-level spell in her spellbook. At each new
wizard level, she gains one extra spell of any spell level that
she can cast. This represents the additional elven insight and
experience with arcane magic.
The elf wizard may also prepare one additional spell of
her highest spell level each day. Unlike the specialist wizard
ability, this spell may be of any school.
This substitution feature replaces the standard wizard’s
ability to specialize in a school of magic.

School specialization is class feature of wizards, altering the way in which they interact with specific schools of magic. This feature of elf wizard replaces that with a different class feature that changes how school specialization works. The last line states that this is a replacement of school specialization. There are two possible interpretations of this: either you no longer have the "school specialization" class feature, or the class feature Generalist Wizardy is school specialization for all further considerations.

This section presents sixteen variant versions of the
character classes in the Player’s Handbook, along with
several additional variants created by swapping one or
more class features for features of other classes.
Each fully detailed variant has entries for one or
more of the following topics. If an entry does not
appear, use the material for the class as presented in
the Player’s Handbook.
...
Class Features: Changes, additions, or subtractions to the
class’s special features, including spellcasting.

Like racial substitution levels, these variant classes also alter the standard classes by changing how the base mechanics work. Additionally, they are no different than taking levels in standard classes for all other rules considerations.

A wizard who uses the arcane domain system (called a domain
wizard) selects a specific arcane domain of spells, much like
a cleric selects a pair of domains associated with his deity. A
domain wizard cannot also be a specialist wizard; in exchange
for the versatility given up by specializing in a domain instead
of an entire school, the domain wizard casts her chosen spells
with increased power.

Just like the elf wizard racial substitution level, this variant also changes how the school specialization feature of the standard Player's Handbook wizard class functions. This time, instead of being able to specialize in a school you choose a domain to cast those spells at an increase in power. You explicitly cannot be both a specialist wizard and a domain wizard.


When considering all relevant rules, the features of these two variants are incompatible with one another. If you have given up your ability to specialize in a school of magic through elf wizard in favor of generalist magic, you cannot also give it up through domain wizard. Or put in another way you must give up your new ability of generalist wizardry (which has replaced school specialization for other rules purposes) in order to become a domain wizard. Conversely if you choose to become a domain wizard, you give up your ability to generalize in all schools of magic granted by elf wizard which has replaced your normal ability to specialize in a single school. Or you lack the "school specialization" class feature that you are required to give up in order to be a domain wizard, and you cannot give up something that you do not have in the first place.

The most straightforward common sense ruling is that you cannot be both an Elf Generalist Wizard and a Domain Wizard, as they are two variants that are both altering the same base class feature.

[DarkSoul]

The refutation isn't about spell slots in the first place.


As noted in the OG thread, the problem with the PHB p171 rule is that it's inconsistently applied and makes various things nonfunctional. Wild Mage simply doesn't function under this ruling (you can't roll to increase the CL of a spell you can't cast in the first place), nor does Unseen Seer. Chameleon casts spells as a wizard yet gets 2nd level spells at CL 2, meaning they can't use them.

It's not inconsistently applied. You're just not understanding that the minimum caster level of a spell is dependent on who's casting it.

• The minimum caster level for a 2nd-level spell when cast by a Chameleon is 2.
• The minimum caster level for a Wild Mage's spells is (Non-Wild Mage CL + Wild Mage Class levels) -2.
• The minimum caster level for a 9th-level spell from an Ur-Priest is 9 + half the caster levels in other non-cleric casting classes. It's entirely possible for an Ur-Priest to have a minimum caster level of 9 for a 9th-level spell.

There's no problem with the rules. And again, all this is discussed in the original thread.

Elven Generalist + Domain Wizard? Sure, if you want. There's nothing saying you can't. Level 9 spells on a level 1 wizard as a result of those two features + some feats? Hell no.

[Lorddenorstrus]

It's not inconsistently applied. You're just not understanding that the minimum caster level of a spell is dependent on who's casting it.

• The minimum caster level for a 2nd-level spell when cast by a Chameleon is 2.
• The minimum caster level for a Wild Mage's spells is (Non-Wild Mage CL + Wild Mage Class levels) -2.
• The minimum caster level for a 9th-level spell from an Ur-Priest is 9 + half the caster levels in other non-cleric casting classes. It's entirely possible for an Ur-Priest to have a minimum caster level of 9 for a 9th-level spell.

There's no problem with the rules. And again, all this is discussed in the original thread.

Elven Generalist + Domain Wizard? Sure, if you want. There's nothing saying you can't. Level 9 spells on a level 1 wizard as a result of those two features + some feats? Hell no.

See, that's RAI vs RAW in a nutshell. Should it work, vs does it work by reading it? I mean really, the same thought exercise can be applied to Pun pun. This conceptionally is the same debate. It's the same result, it's just one we would never in our sane minds allow in a game. Does this combo work? Technically yes, the only hard part is caster level boosting which considering how cheap Hiring costs are for spells.... hire Bards etc boost CL. Make sure Domain is going to give Gate at 9th lvl... Start with efreeti's.. next your chain gating solars and have infinite wishes... *shrug* Still is gonna be banned in every actual table with sane power levels and any competition people want to keep reasonable.

[Doctor Awkward]

...Does this combo work? Technically yes, the only hard part is caster level boosting...

There's no problem with the rules. And again, all this is discussed in the original thread.

Elven Generalist + Domain Wizard? Sure, if you want. There's nothing saying you can't...

Domain Wizard explicitly doesn't trade away the option to specialize, nor counts as specializing. That's not what the question of whether you can combine them is about.

I'm... fairly flabbergasted at how anyone thinks RAW is so thoroughly settled in favor of this combination.

Domain Wizard and Elf Wizard are clearly two variants of the same base class that are both attempting to modify the same class feature. They are quite incompatible with one another on the same character.

Domain Wizard explicitly does trade away your ability to specialize. It says so right in the variant description: "A domain wizard cannot also be a specialist wizard; in exchange for the versatility given up by specializing in a domain instead of an entire school, the domain wizard casts her chosen spells with increased power."

Generalist wizardry explicitly replaces your ability to specialize in a school of magic. You either no longer have that ability to trade away to become a domain wizard, or generalist wizardry counts as specializing for all other rules purposes, in which case you must then give that up to become a domain wizard.

[Silvercrys]

I'm... fairly flabbergasted at how anyone thinks RAW is so thoroughly settled in favor of this combination.

Domain Wizard and Elf Wizard are clearly two variants of the same base class that are both attempting to modify the same class feature. They are quite incompatible with one another on the same character.

Domain Wizard explicitly does trade away your ability to specialize. It says so right in the variant description: "A domain wizard cannot also be a specialist wizard; in exchange for the versatility given up by specializing in a domain instead of an entire school, the domain wizard casts her chosen spells with increased power."

Generalist wizardry explicitly replaces your ability to specialize in a school of magic. You either no longer have that ability to trade away to become a domain wizard, or generalist wizardry counts as specializing for all other rules purposes, in which case you must then give that up to become a domain wizard.

Technically, none of that bit is rules text, it's just fluff. Like the bit of the Great Cleave feat where it says "You can wield a melee weapon with such power that you can strike multiple times when you fell your foes." That isn't rules text, it's a description.

The rules text is the bit where it says "A Domain Wizard has all the standard Wizard class features except as noted below, and then it never actually says you trade specialization for the domain or that the domain is a form of specialization or anything like that. What it does say is that being a Domain Wizard does not require you to prohibit schools, and technically as long as you aren't a specialist wizard you aren't in violation of the fluff, either. Since EGW isn't a specialist wizard, it probably works RAW.

RAI? Yeah, you're probably right, but this was early days, relatively, in the Alternate Class Features game and editing and rules around them were less strict than they are in, say, Pathfinder.

[DarkSoul]

I'm... fairly flabbergasted at how anyone thinks RAW is so thoroughly settled in favor of this combination.

Domain Wizard and Elf Wizard are clearly two variants of the same base class that are both attempting to modify the same class feature. They are quite incompatible with one another on the same character.

Domain Wizard explicitly does trade away your ability to specialize. It says so right in the variant description: "A domain wizard cannot also be a specialist wizard; in exchange for the versatility given up by specializing in a domain instead of an entire school, the domain wizard casts her chosen spells with increased power."

Generalist wizardry explicitly replaces your ability to specialize in a school of magic. You either no longer have that ability to trade away to become a domain wizard, or generalist wizardry counts as specializing for all other rules purposes, in which case you must then give that up to become a domain wizard.

Domain Wizards aren't specializing in a school of magic, and elf generalist explicitly states that you have to give up your ability to specialize in a school of magic. Domain wizards can do that without a second thought. If elf generalist said "This substitution feature replaces a wizard's ability to be a specialist wizard." I would agree with you completely. By the letter of the rules, though definitely not the spirit, elf generalist and domain wizard aren't mutually exclusive.

That being said (again, because I said all this in that original thread, too), I wouldn't allow a Domain Wizard to be an elf generalist either, to say nothing of the "leapfrog" absurdity.

[Elves]

It's not like it's unbalancing anyway. 1 no-choice slot per level + one highest level slot + no schools barred becomes more competitive with normal specialization, though probably still somewhat worse after the low levels.

[Doctor Awkward]

Technically, none of that bit is rules text, it's just fluff. Like the bit of the Great Cleave feat where it says "You can wield a melee weapon with such power that you can strike multiple times when you fell your foes." That isn't rules text, it's a description.

The rules text is the bit where it says "A Domain Wizard has all the standard Wizard class features except as noted below, and then it never actually says you trade specialization for the domain or that the domain is a form of specialization or anything like that. What it does say is that being a Domain Wizard does not require you to prohibit schools, and technically as long as you aren't a specialist wizard you aren't in violation of the fluff, either. Since EGW isn't a specialist wizard, it probably works RAW.

RAI? Yeah, you're probably right, but this was early days, relatively, in the Alternate Class Features game and editing and rules around them were less strict than they are in, say, Pathfinder.

Calling that fluff is pure speculation. In the usual manual of style the fluff description of abilities are in italics. If any one part of that sentence is rules text then all of it is, and claiming otherwise is sheer willful ignorance of written text that expressly contradicts the assertion that you aren't giving up anything to be a domain wizard. Both the general description of the Unearth Arcana variant classes and the introduction to the domain wizard make it abundantly clear that this is a replacement for school specialization. And furthermore, generalist wizardry, as I have repeatedly noted, is strictly a replacement for school specialization which means that for all other rules considerations it is school specialization. Which, again, is something you are not allowed to have if you are a domain wizard.

Domain Wizards aren't specializing in a school of magic, and elf generalist explicitly states that you have to give up your ability to specialize in a school of magic. Domain wizards can do that without a second thought. If elf generalist said "This substitution feature replaces a wizard's ability to be a specialist wizard." I would agree with you completely. By the letter of the rules, though definitely not the spirit, elf generalist and domain wizard aren't mutually exclusive.

That being said (again, because I said all this in that original thread, too), I wouldn't allow a Domain Wizard to be an elf generalist either, to say nothing of the "leapfrog" absurdity.

That is incorrect. Generalist wizardry explicitly states it replaces your ability to specialize in a school of magic. The idea that there is a meaningful distinction between the text "specialize in a school of magic" and "specialist wizard" is assigning a level of pedantry to the rules that does not exist. Both the text and the intent are quite clear in this regard.

[Elves]

The idea that there is a meaningful distinction between the text "specialize in a school of magic" and "specialist wizard" is assigning a level of pedantry to the rules that does not exist.

Bluntly wrong since the text of Domain Specialist itself introduces a different kind of specialist: "specializing in a domain instead of a school of magic". I think the strongest ruling against it is still the one mentioned in OP, you don't have the ability to do something you can't do.

[Sword Magess]

Bluntly wrong since the text of Domain Specialist itself introduces a different kind of specialist: "specializing in a domain instead of a school of magic".

I am not sure what the problem is. The domain wizard text is quite clear about this:

A domain wizard cannot also be a specialist wizard

It says quite clearly that domain wizards are not specialist wizards.