Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground C

[Efrate]

Had a random thought last night that might make me abandon all the builds I started before since I think it's a pretty weird way to use the SI that lets it shine. Comes online really late though.

[Wolfem]

Apologies for the late update. The ICO Spreadsheet has been updated with a holder in place for this cook. Good Luck everyone, looking forward to the dishes.

[jdizzlean]

would it be possible to get a 2-3 day extension?

[weckar]

Still waiting on that rules clarification...

[Heliomance]

Is a haste spell cast from a magic item (wand or scroll) eligible for the enhancements this class provides?

I'm inclined to say that spell completion items count, due to the line in the description of scrolls that says "Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell", but spell trigger items do not.

@jdizzlean: Yeah, I'm fine to give an extension if people would like.

[Efrate]

An extension would be appreciated. I am about halfway there after this weekend despite a major setback but work as usual is interfering with IC and life in general.

Why won't the world just let me nerd out in peace without distraction?!

[Hiro Quester]

@jdizzlean: Yeah, I'm fine to give an extension if people would like.

I would appreciate an extension, please and thank you. I have a build and concept I’m looking forward to sharing. But it has taken all weekend to create a solution to a serious problem, and I still haven’t filled out the table, and I have work work I have put off that needs to be done today.

[Zaq]

I'm hopeful that I can finish my builds tonight (my time). There's definitely some imperfections, but I don't usually participate in Iron Chef when I'm in school anyway, and of course I just HAD to have two ideas. I'm a busy boy these days. (Not missing round 100, though. I'm determined.)

Of course, even if I don't personally take advantage of it (I have zero free evenings after tonight for the rest of the week, as is typical--yay evening program grad school!), I have no objections to other folks benefiting from an extension. Who knows, I may even end up using one myself, though my current schedule would make that a bit challenging unless it stretches all the way through the weekend.

[WhamBamSam]

I've been slacking off on actually writing up, and would appreciate an extension as well.

[Hiro Quester]

@jdizzlean: Yeah, I'm fine to give an extension if people would like.

I’m going to assume that’s an official declaration of an extension (with new date to be announced soon), rather than just a question about whether people would like that, right?

The original deadline is less than seven hours away. For me, the welcome implication that an extension might be granted, led me to assume I could prioritize my actual paid job, today and tonight, planning to get the build finished after my Tuesday meetings.

i hope that’s a safe assumption, Heliomance. And thanks again for that.

Otherwise I’ll just share my idea unofficially, later, rather than submit it as an entry. I can’t get it done before 7:59 am GMT.

[Zaq]

I’ve got 99-100% of the writing done.

Now for everyone’s “favorite” part: the formatting. Gag.

That said, necessary evils aside, I’m having a blast with this round and I’m really looking forward to seeing the spread of entries!

[Hiro Quester]

If anyone has advice for newbies about a good process for doing the formatting in the least painful way, I’d appreciate seeing that.

Has anyone written about how to optimize getting nice-looking tables and spoilers etc out of one’s word processor and into GitP personal message format?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If anyone has advice for newbies about a good process for doing the formatting in the least painful way, I’d appreciate seeing that.

Has anyone written about how to optimize getting nice-looking tables and spoilers etc out of one’s word processor and into GitP personal message format?

I just do them as I'm typing them up in Word. Takes a bit of getting your head around, but it's ultimately a lot better than going back through in the reply and changing everything all at once (and hoping you're not forgetting some snippet you wanted italicized somewhere). That said, if someone has a better way... I'm all ears!

[DeTess]

I just do them as I'm typing them up in Word. Takes a bit of getting your head around, but it's ultimately a lot better than going back through in the reply and changing everything all at once (and hoping you're not forgetting some snippet you wanted italicized somewhere). That said, if someone has a better way... I'm all ears!

For the tables, I suspect (but haven't tested it yet) that it might pay to just write a bit of code to turn it into the correct GITP table format. i generally make the build in an excel file first, so I think it should be possible to use the tabel from excel as input and build the GITP table around it using Python or whatever. If I ever get around to coding this, I'll make sure to share it here :P

Edit: So I was kinda joking when I said 'Just create a piece of tabel generation code', but then I decided to do it anyway. This is coded in python 2.7, but it should probably work in 3.X as well.

path='C:/Wherever/You/Want/' #path to CSV file (change '\'to '/' to avoid errors)
file_name='test2.csv'            #name of csv file


firstline = True
with open(path+file_name, 'rb') as csvfile:
     reader = csv.reader(csvfile, delimiter=',', quotechar='"')
     
     f= open("table.txt","w+")
     #header
     f.write('
Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

'+row[0]+'
'+row[1]+'
'+row[2]+'
'+row[3]+'
'+row[4]+'
'+row[5]+'
'+row[6]+'
'+row[7]+'
'+row[8]+'


')
       
        
         
     f.close()

...okay, you might need to open this post in a reply to copy-paste the code, as I can't figure out how to stop it from displaying sections of table.

Anyway, this piece of code requires a .csv file that resembles the table to run. Here is an example of a properly formatted .csv file (links to dropbox, if you check this thread a long time from now, this link might no longer work). It outputs the result in a .txt file in the same folder as the one in which the code is located.

Anyway, this can speed up table creation if you use Excel to make the table during building, like I do. Otherwise it might make things slightly less fiddly as copying into excel is easier than copying it into the proper code on the forums.

[Zaq]

One build in. Gonna have to format the other one tonight. The extension is greatly appreciated because you folks WANT to see this second build, I promise.

DeTess, can you explain to me like I'm stupid EXACTLY how to use that code you posted? I'd looooove to have a tool like that but I don't really get what you actually do with it.

[Hiro Quester]

My way of making the chart, which seems reasonably easy.

First, change your settings in your account to have a WYSIWYG editor. (Full disclosure: I did not know that was an option until today. )

Copy the chart from Heliomance's first post. Paste it into word (excel would work too). Make the chart there.

Copy the chart. open a private message in GitP. Paste the chart there. It fills in, but without formatting.

Click the "Switch Editor to Source Mode" button at the top left of the toolbar.

Each row in the chart code begins with [TR]. In the first row, and every second row afterwards, paste ="bgcolor: #DCCDAD" (with the quotes) so the entry says [TR="bgcolor: #DCCDAD"].

Click the source Mode back to WYSIWYG Mode. It should look right.

Click the Source mode button again. Copy the contents of the PM back into your build document.

[DeTess]

DeTess, can you explain to me like I'm stupid EXACTLY how to use that code you posted? I'd looooove to have a tool like that but I don't really get what you actually do with it.

Sure, I can do that.

Before I start, here's a link to the file on dropbox, which might be easier to use than having to copy paste the not-quite correctly formatted code I posted before.


First, the set-up. The code is written in python, so you need a python interpreter. I use the Anaconda package, which is available here: https://www.anaconda.com/distribution/ I coded this in python 2.7, so if that's all you're interested in, just pick that version for your OS of choice.

Once you've got the interpreter, using the code works as follows:

1. create a copy of the build table in your spreadsheet program of choice. If you're like me and build in Excel, then you should already have it there. otherwise this is going to cost some time. The table should have the exact same order of rows as the official build table, and should look like this when you're done

2. Save this file as a .CSV file. .CSV is a file extension that most spreadsheet programs should be able to save files as. you might get a warning that information will be lost, but this is fine (and you won't lose any info). For more info, see for example this explanation: https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001356.htm

3. Open the auto_table program (the very original name for the code I shared) in your python interpreter of choice.

4. Below the header marked 'variables' there are three variables named 'path', 'file_name' and 'output_name', like this:

path='C:/Wherever/You/Want/' 
file_name='test.csv'            
output_name='table'

4a. Change the path variable to the path leading to your .csv file. You can get the path by right-clicking on the .csv file, clicking on properties and then looking for the part marked 'location'. Put this in the path variable. You need to swap all the '\'s for '/'s because of something python does, and you need to make sure you end on a '/'. So, for example, I've got the file I want on my desktop, and it has the location 'C:\Users\DeTess\Desktop'. What I'd have to put in the path variable is 'C:/Users/DeTess/Desktop/', so it should then look like this:

path='C:/Users/DeTess/Desktop/'
file_name='test.csv'            
output_name='table'

4b. In file-name, put the name of your .csv file in quotation marks, including the file extension. If my file was called 'super_awesome_swiftblade.csv' that's exactly what you should put in there. If the name doesn't list the file extension (so just 'super_awesome_swiftblade') then that's not a problem (it means you've got a setting set to hide the extensions), but it means you still need to add the .csv to the end. So the piece of code with the variables would then look like this:

path='C:/Users/DeTess/Desktop/'
file_name='super_awesome_swiftblade.csv'            
output_name='table'

4c. optionally, you can change the name of the output text file. Just put whatever name you want after output_name= in quotation marks. For example:

path='C:/Users/DeTess/Desktop/'
file_name='super_awesome_swiftblade.csv'            
output_name='swiftblade'

This code will automatically overwrite the .text file with the indicated name if it already exists, so you might want to change the ouput names if you want to keep the different tables already formatted around.

5. Run the program. If everything goes well you'll get no errors and a .txt file with the set output name ('table.txt' if you didn't change things around) should be in the same folder as where you saved the 'auto_table.py' program. Just copy-paste the contents of the .txt file into the forum and it should contain a ready-formatted table.

And that's it. I swear, it's nowhere near as complicated as the wall of text might suggest it is.

edit: it should be noted that this code can create tables with fewer rows without needing adjustment. If you feed it an e6 table it'll just have rows for the 7 levels, or if you took some strange race with RHD and LA and decided to condense things down a bit, it should take that without issue as well.

[Hiro Quester]

Newbie Presentation Question:

Should you include in your chart for saving throws, the actual saving throws you would have, including any bonuses you have from abilities, feats, class levels, etc? Or just the base, unaugmented, ones from class levels alone?

And the same for spells per day. Do you include bonus spells per day that you get from a high ability score (int, wis, Cha)?

[DeTess]

Newbie Presentation Question:

Should you include in your chart for saving throws, the actual saving throws you would have, including any bonuses you have from abilities, feats, class levels, etc? Or just the base, unaugmented, ones from class levels alone?

And the same for spells per day. Do you include bonus spells per day that you get from a high ability score (int, wis, Cha)?

The base saving throws should be in the chart, but it's often a good idea to include at least some of the total stats elsewhere in the write-up if they're relevant (if you optimized one of your saves, or if the chart shows a weak save that you compensated for it'd be a good idea to also list your total at level 20 or at your sweet spot, for example). In the spell chart, I think it's best to include bonus spell slots, but I'm not 100% on the official preference.

[RaiKirah]

The base saving throws should be in the chart, but it's often a good idea to include at least some of the total stats elsewhere in the write-up if they're relevant (if you optimized one of your saves, or if the chart shows a weak save that you compensated for it'd be a good idea to also list your total at level 20 or at your sweet spot, for example). In the spell chart, I think it's best to include bonus spell slots, but I'm not 100% on the official preference.

On the topic of bonus spells, usually what I've seen and done is include the bonus spells in the table but indicate how many are bonus, e.g. saying you have 3+1 1st levels spells as a first level Sorcerer with a Charisma of 18

[Venger]

Newbie Presentation Question:

Should you include in your chart for saving throws, the actual saving throws you would have, including any bonuses you have from abilities, feats, class levels, etc? Or just the base, unaugmented, ones from class levels alone?

And the same for spells per day. Do you include bonus spells per day that you get from a high ability score (int, wis, Cha)?

Put the base saving throws from your classes and nothing else.

Put the spells per day from your chart and nothing else. No high ability score, no rings of wizardry, none o f that. If you have an extra slot from domains, then put x+1 as normal like on the cleric chart.

The base saving throws should be in the chart, but it's often a good idea to include at least some of the total stats elsewhere in the write-up if they're relevant (if you optimized one of your saves, or if the chart shows a weak save that you compensated for it'd be a good idea to also list your total at level 20 or at your sweet spot, for example). In the spell chart, I think it's best to include bonus spell slots, but I'm not 100% on the official preference.

On the topic of bonus spells, usually what I've seen and done is include the bonus spells in the table but indicate how many are bonus, e.g. saying you have 3+1 1st levels spells as a first level Sorcerer with a Charisma of 18

No. For a 1st level sorcerer, you have 3 slots, so put 3 on your chart. This is what everyone does. The judge will see your high cha in abilities and will understand you have bonus slots accordingly.

The reason this is done is so the judges can have a good idea of how much magic/ saves your guy h as without having to do math to subtract out your equipment/feats/etc and can compare them to other characters accurately.

re: formatting, I do mine in notepad because the program is too dumb to mess up formatting with extra indents or what have you and won't correct my complicated D&D words. When i have my draft finished, I go into PMs and preview to make sure I didn't delete a bracket and send.

[The Viscount]

Newbie Presentation Question:

Should you include in your chart for saving throws, the actual saving throws you would have, including any bonuses you have from abilities, feats, class levels, etc? Or just the base, unaugmented, ones from class levels alone?

And the same for spells per day. Do you include bonus spells per day that you get from a high ability score (int, wis, Cha)?

I'v always written the base saving throw bonus, both because it's simpler and because it makes it easier for the judge to check if i'm qualifying for anything with a base save bonus requirement.

With spells per day I usually just put what's written, again for simplicity, but mark with an asterisk if I have 0 on the chart but at least one from the bonus. It should be fine either way, just make a note somewhere if you're adding in bonus spells.

[Zaq]

For saves, yes, just use the base saving throw bonus.

For spell slots, to me it makes sense to include high stat bonuses, class bonuses, and so on as long as you can guarantee them on a build level. So no items, no temporary effects, nothing like that, but if you know you've got 14 WIS on a WIS-based caster, then sure, give yourself a bonus level 1 and level 2. But either way, yeah, definitely say whether you're doing so or not.

That's just me, though. I can 100% understand an argument that you shouldn't include bonus spells on the table as well.

[Zaq]

Okay. Both builds submitted. Breathe that sigh of relief.

Entering while school is in session was a bad choice. Entering twice while school is in session was probably an even worse choice. But dammit, it's round 100. No regrets. Few things give me as much joy as this contest, even if it's bloody impossible to explain to someone who isn't into D&D. Helio, thank you again a thousand times for nurturing and fostering this competition. I swear it's made me better at my paying job.

Can't wait to see the dishes! I will freely admit to having gotten just a wee bit self-indulgent in a few places. Hopefully I make a few people laugh or at least smile now and again.

[jdizzlean]

i am nearly done, if not today, first thing in the morning tomorrow will see it complete

xoxo helio

[Venger]

plugging away at mine. ought to be done by tonight. excited to see yours, zaq

[Macabaret]

I, too, am finding that this point in time of the calendar is making my build more 'blade' than 'swift'. Still, I'm chipping away at it when free time rears it's head. So thank you for the extension. Hopefully, I'll be able to finish in a reasonable amount of time.

[Venger]

got my rough done. my eyes are bleeding so i'll proof it and send it in in the morning. excited to see all t he dishes

[Hiro Quester]

I'm almost done. I have made all the decisions, but have to finish and proof the writeup. I should be able to get that done in the next day or so.

Heliomance, Judges, are you okay with this looseness, or would you like a firm deadline? I know I will want to keep polishing until I have to let it go. Deadlines are helpful to focus your efforts, sometimes.

[RaiKirah]

I've got everything but my background ready to go. Hope to have that tonight, but I firm deadline for the extension would be helpful in planning! Super excited to see what folks came up with!