Wizard's spellbook tied to Wizard levels exclusively?

[Aidamis]

Hello. I've got a question. High level Eldritch Knight Joe decides to go Wizard. Can he put his level 1 EK spells in the spell book from the get go? What about level 2 spells? Must he wait until Wizard 3 to copy those into the spell book or can it be ruled that the high EK levels and the spell's knowledge are enough? Thank you.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Hello. I've got a question. High level Eldritch Knight Joe decides to go Wizard. Can he put his level 1 EK spells in the spell book from the get go? What about level 2 spells? Must he wait until Wizard 3 to copy those into the spell book or can it be ruled that the high EK levels and the spell's knowledge are enough? Thank you.

I don't think his EK spells can go into the wizard spell book period. The wizard can copy down written spells which the EK spells aren't. And unless it was a ritual spell there wouldn't be any point. His EK spells are always prepared anyway and he only has one set of spell slots for casting.

[Aidamis]

I don't think his EK spells can't go into the wizard spell book period. And unless it was a ritual spell there wouldn't be any point. His EK spells are always prepared anyway.

Ah, thank you. I was meaning rituals of course. I've heard some folks say EK can create and use scrolls theoretically, then copy the scroll in the spellbook, but that sounds a bit like a pain. Thanks.

[Anymage]

EK spells are referred to repeatedly as wizard spells, and nothing in the subclass says anything contrary to that. As such, I'd have no problem treating them as prepared wizard spells and letting you copy them into your spellbook using those rules. (I.E: 10 gold and one hour per spell level.)

Second level spells I'm strongly inclined to say no. Mostly because if they were in your book before your wizard level could bear them, you'd want to prepare them or cast them as rituals or do something else with just a one level wizard dip.

[SLOTHRPG95]

EK spells are referred to repeatedly as wizard spells, and nothing in the subclass says anything contrary to that. As such, I'd have no problem treating them as prepared wizard spells and letting you copy them into your spellbook using those rules. (I.E: 10 gold and one hour per spell level.)

Second level spells I'm strongly inclined to say no. Mostly because if they were in your book before your wizard level could bear them, you'd want to prepare them or cast them as rituals or do something else with just a one level wizard dip.

I agree with the first half, but I'd extend that to second level spells. First off, you don't actually gain anything by preparing them. As for rituals, this is a marginal enough benefit given an EK's sharply limited number of spells known that I don't think anything crazy would result from this. Sure, if you used your one non-Evocation, non-Abjuration 2nd level spell known on Gentle Repose for some reason, you can copy it into your spellbook¹ to ritual cast. Why not?

I think that even a one-level dip in Wizard should allow you to copy any and all known EK spells into a spellbook, since such a dip basically represents bothering to learn formal magical notation. Which is what's used to write spells in spellbooks. Maybe there could be some weird interaction if you had really low-level Wizard minions, and this let you teach them more spells than they'd normally have access to, but since it's your spellbook (not theirs), they'd still have to pay full price to copy.

1. For what it's worth, I'd also allow you to copy any already known rituals into your ritual book if you took the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat.

[bid]

Hello. I've got a question. High level Eldritch Knight Joe decides to go Wizard. Can he put his level 1 EK spells in the spell book from the get go? What about level 2 spells? Must he wait until Wizard 3 to copy those into the spell book or can it be ruled that the high EK levels and the spell's knowledge are enough? Thank you.

Anything in the Classes chapter uses the class level, as if your levels in other classes didn't exist. If you MC, you are multiple characters, separately but at the same time.

You cannot write a level 2 spell into your wizard book until your wizard feature allows it. And, if you want to be strict, your wizard-self doesn't have access to the spells your EK-self knows.

[Keravath]

"Copying a Spell into the Book. When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it. The spells cop*ied into a spellbook must be of a spell level the wizard can prepare."

"If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells that you have prepared into a new spellbook."

"Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

Ultimately, it is a up to the DM how they want to run it in their game.

RAW -
1) You can only copy spells into your spell book that you have spell slots for and which you could prepare as a wizard. So if you have 2nd level spells as an EK but can only cast 1st level spells as a wizard then you can't copy those to your spell book.
2) However, a wizard IS able to copy prepared spells into their spell book. An EK/wizard multiclass should then should then be able to copy any prepared spell into their spellbook (even if it is a wizard spell from the EK side) IF they could cast it as a wizard.

[Tanarii]

EKs don't prepare spells, they have spells Known. They cannot copy their Known spells directly into their Spellbook.

[Chronos]

Even for rituals, adding them to your spellbook wouldn't matter. An Eldritch Knight who knows a second-level ritual spell, and who has a wizard level, can use his ritual casting feature to cast it even if it isn't in his book. A wizard can cast a ritual spell if it's known, prepared, or in their book. Usually, "in their book" is the most convenient option, but they can still do it the other ways.

[Tanarii]

A wizard can cast a ritual spell if it's known, prepared, or in their book. Usually, "in their book" is the most convenient option, but they can still do it the other ways.

A wizard can cast ritual spells that are in their spellbook. Not known or prepared.

Ritual Casting
You can cast a wizard spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and you have the spell in your spellbook. You don’t need to have the spell prepared.

[Eldariel]

"Copying a Spell into the Book. When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it. The spells cop*ied into a spellbook must be of a spell level the wizard can prepare."

"If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells that you have prepared into a new spellbook."

"Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

Ultimately, it is a up to the DM how they want to run it in their game.

RAW -
1) You can only copy spells into your spell book that you have spell slots for and which you could prepare as a wizard. So if you have 2nd level spells as an EK but can only cast 1st level spells as a wizard then you can't copy those to your spell book.
2) However, a wizard IS able to copy prepared spells into their spell book. An EK/wizard multiclass should then should then be able to copy any prepared spell into their spellbook (even if it is a wizard spell from the EK side) IF they could cast it as a wizard.

Prep rules for a single-classed Wizard state that they can prep spells they have slots for though, so strict RAW lets Wizard 1/Cleric 16 prepare 9th level Wizard spells.

[Keravath]

Prep rules for a single-classed Wizard state that they can prep spells they have slots for though, so strict RAW lets Wizard 1/Cleric 16 prepare 9th level Wizard spells.

No. This is a multiclassed character. The multiclassing rules explicitly state the following.

"Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

So a 1 wizard/16 cleric prepares spells as a level 1 wizard and a level 16 cleric SEPARATELY. So no, this character can not prepare 9th level wizard spells. They do have a 9th level spell slot they can use to upcast something though.

[Eldariel]

No. This is a multiclassed character. The multiclassing rules explicitly state the following.

"Spells Known and Prepared. You determine what spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

So a 1 wizard/16 cleric prepares spells as a level 1 wizard and a level 16 cleric SEPARATELY. So no, this character can not prepare 9th level wizard spells. They do have a 9th level spell slot they can use to upcast something though.

Accounting for errata, the spell preparation for a single-classed Wizard:
"prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For example, if you're a 3rd level wizard, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With an Intelligence of 16, your list of prepared spells can include six spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination, chosen from your spellbook. If you prepare the 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn't remove it from your list of prepared spells."

That is the spell preparation rule for a Wizard, and thus the only thing the phrase in the multiclass statement can refer to. Thus a single-classed Wizard can, by RAW, prepare any spells they have slots for. Funnily enough they even errata'd this and yet didn't change anything. In other words, a single-classed Wizard with spell slots higher than what they could normally cast (from...say, Wish or whatever) could also prepare spells of that level in that slot provided they had spells of that level in their Spellbook. The only limitation is that the Wizard have spellslots of the appropriate level and no clause in any way refers to only slots gained from Wizard-levels.

Sage advice contradicts this, but of course, sage advice doesn't change the rules as they're written and it's inconsistent, so it doesn't really matter. The example in the book doesn't even mention the option of having spells scribed in your spellbook so it's wholly inapplicable. Indeed, no rule in the game suggests anything but this reading (though some people read the "multiclass Wizard"-rule to somehow be more restrictive than the spell preparation rules for a single-classed Wizard, but that's quite clearly just reading the rules as one thinks they should have been or RAMS as opposed to strict RAW).

[Xihirli]

Except that since you're preparing spells as though you were a single-classed member of that class, a Wizard 1 / Cleric 16 could only prepare 1st level spells because if you were a single-classed member of the Wizard class, you would only have first level spell slots.

[bid]

Thus a single-classed Wizard can, by RAW, prepare any spells they have slots for.

As a wizard. Before joining your different pieces and applying any MC rule.
Anything in the Classes chapter uses the class level.

Sage advice does not contradict RAW, but only your interpretation.


ofc, if you want a wizard 1 / cleric 16 to learn wish... it's a decision you can make at your table.

[Toadkiller]

I can’t really think of a reason allowing the use of the EK’s rituals in this way would subtract fun from the table. So I would allow it. If I missed something and it started making things less fun then I would talk to everyone and we would make an out of gameplay rules adjustment as needed.

[Eldariel]

Except that since you're preparing spells as though you were a single-classed member of that class, a Wizard 1 / Cleric 16 could only prepare 1st level spells because if you were a single-classed member of the Wizard class, you would only have first level spell slots.

You prepare spells as if you were single-classed: "Refer to single-Wizard rules for preparing spells", essentially. At least one valid reading, if not the only one.

[ThePolarBear]

You prepare spells as if you were single-classed: "Refer to single-Wizard rules for preparing spells", essentially. At least one valid reading, if not the only one.

Not really. "You determine which spells you know and can prepare for each class individually, as if you were single-classed member of that class". The determination for wizards requires knowing which spells said wizard can cast. Being said wizard a single-classed member of the class, it follows the rules for the wizard class. Which state that a wizard can cast a number of spells as shown in the wizard table.

A first level wizard doesn't have access to 9th level spell slots.