Negative LA-Assignment : Resurrection, but no diamond here

[Metastachydium]

3.0 tried to push hard on making them the embodiments of Lawful Neutral, and when that didn't pan out they tried the same with the newly invented inevitables (who aren't even outsiders, but who cares?). The designers of 3.x seemingly did their best to just forget that modrons exist.

But, um, Modrons are CUTE!

(Also, the term exemplar in that meaning technically originated on this forum in afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread and never appeared in official 3.x works. But no, by that definition they aren't exemplars (they don't use petitioners to make more of them or evolve into higher caste-species).)

Another thing I didn't know. But looking back, the odd thing isn't that I thought that was official. The odd thing is the lack of an umbrella term for something most self-respecting extreme planes seem to just have.

Fun fact: formians originally hail from Arcadia and only appeared in Mechanus after the fall of Nemausus. They are an invasive (in both meanings of the word) species.

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WHATEVER THE HELL WERE THEY DOING ON ARCADIA?!

[Tzardok]

Arcadia is the plane of Harmony. Formians represent a form of harmony, even if it is one many don't agree with. Acheron, on the other hand, probably doesn't know what harmony is.

Furthermore, IIRC it was stated that formians got more aggressive and less benevolent to their subjugated people when the majority of them fell to Mechanus.

Lastly, the fact that formians are pretty aggressive and expansionist and not very good is stated to be a contributing factor to Nemausus' shift.

Edit: Some people apparantly think modrons are goofy and stupid. Such poor deprived sods...

[Beni-Kujaku]

It's not the worst monster out there. I'd go with 8 RHD though. Not only does this match the LA=stat adjustement / 4 rule, but Outsider HDs are way better than the norm. The ability modifiers are really good, as well, with no penalty. You could go Psychic Rogue and get some good mileage out of that Int stat, or gish Ardent and exploit their weird power selection system to still be up do date with regard to power level.

Fair point. I'm still a bit skeptical on its ability to use all these ability bonuses effectively, but for now changed to 8 RHD, DLA-1.

3.0 tried to push hard on making them the embodiments of Lawful Neutral, and when that didn't pan out they tried the same with the newly invented inevitables (who aren't even outsiders, but who cares?). The designers of 3.x seemingly did their best to just forget that modrons exist.

It's actually worse than that, the formians and the modrons never seem to interact. Modrons have existed in all editions, but even in 3e where the formians are clearly put forth as the masters of Mechanus, the modron web article does not acknowledge them any more than MM1 and FF acknowledge the existence of modrons. In 2e, the formians stayed on Arcadia, so there was no real interaction, except a passing mention in the Planes of Law supplement "It seems the formians, like the modrons, have no conception of aspiring to higher stations". And in 1st, 4th and 5th edition, the formians simply do not exist. My headcanon is that one day a formian hive-city tried attacking a modron hierarch, immediately triggering the modron defense system, asked for backup from all he other hive-cities on Mechanus, pissed off someone upwards of a tertian, and all queens were exterminated leaving only the few that didn't leave Arcadia alive. Then the Spellplague happened, and Arcadia disappeared, including the last of the formians.

Yeah, they are a far better fit for Acheron than Mechanus.

Fun fact: formians originally hail from Arcadia and only appeared in Mechanus after the fall of Nemausus. They are an invasive (in both meanings of the word) species.

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WHATEVER THE HELL WERE THEY DOING ON ARCADIA?!

Oh, you know, they weren't sure they could invade other planes yet, you could say they were... antsy.

More seriously, the Good in the plane seemed to make all the hives understand each other better and not fight, changing their philosophy to "this is our home, and we must protect it.". But it also seemed like it was really an external force and not the formians' natural state, since it was also said that "formians found on the Prime make war on each other". So they really are more fit for Acheron, and once they somehow planeshifted from Arcadia to Mechanus, their territorialism was once again shifted by the plane into "All shall be one and under our control." It is very possible that, should they have survived another edition or two, they would have reached Acheron and taken control of this plane as well.

Wait, Formians are actual, official exemplars?

(Also, the term exemplar in that meaning technically originated on this forum in afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread and never appeared in official 3.x works. But no, by that definition they aren't exemplars (they don't use petitioners to make more of them or evolve into higher caste-species).)

Actually, Afroakuma himself considered them exemplars, which is where I took this sentence. But also, this comment dates back to way before the Planar Questions Thread (2008 compared to 2013) and the first mention I found of Exemplars being used to describe aligned Outsiders dates even further back, from the fan-continuation of the Planescape Campaign setting for 3.x, by the Planewalker forum (see here, chapter 2), which was released in June 2006 at the latest. It wouldn't surprise me that afro had a hand in it somewhere, but it doesn't originate from this website and was already used before afroakuma even joined GitP.
There, exemplars were described as : "Many outsiders, like elementals, are the manifestation of the traits of their home plane and are often referred to as exemplar. Exemplars on the Outer Planes include all types of celestials, fiends, modrons, rilmani, and slaadi.", which doesn't include being born from petitioner souls (fortunately, otherwise modrons and slaadi wouldn't be either, would they? Aren't they exclusively born respectively from recycled dead modrons and infected mortals?), and would definitely include 3.x formians.

An intelligence officer running a (wait for it) counter-Intelligence operation is still funny, nevertheless.

Hah! Though wouldn't a creature specialized in Sense Motive and Spot be instead called a wisdom officer?

Termites are the same. Did you know one of their species has suicide bomber modified workers whose job is to wade into melee and explode into a shower of sticky, caustic goo when grabbed?

Ants do the same! But as I understand it, it's more workers acting as a last line of defense. The most dangerous Full Nelson ever.

Some people apparantly think modrons are goofy and stupid. Such poor deprived sods...

I'm sorry to confess I was one of them, I even called them one of the weirdest creatures in D&D in my Will-o-wisp analysis. And to that, I... do not apologize. The modrons are goofy, that's what makes them unique. The modrons are stupid, in their ultimate administration that they do not understand themselves and their literally one-track mind that cannot process an order while performing another. If they weren't goofy, they'd be inevitables, terrifying enforcers of law beyond comprehension. Being goofy if what makes them good, and also what made 3e not want them in the first place, like the Flumph or the Flail Snail, and bringing them back is one of the greatest things 5e ever did.

[Tzardok]

Actually, Afroakuma himself considered them exemplars, which is where I took this sentence. But also, this comment dates back to way before the Planar Questions Thread (2008 compared to 2013) and the first mention I found of Exemplars being used to describe aligned Outsiders dates even further back, from the fan-continuation of the Planescape Campaign setting for 3.x, by the Planewalker forum (see here, chapter 2), which was released in June 2006 at the latest. It wouldn't surprise me that afro had a hand in it somewhere, but it doesn't originate from this website and was already used before afroakuma even joined GitP.

Huh. I didn't know that.

There, exemplars were described as : "Many outsiders, like elementals, are the manifestation of the traits of their home plane and are often referred to as exemplar. Exemplars on the Outer Planes include all types of celestials, fiends, modrons, rilmani, and slaadi.", which doesn't include being born from petitioner souls (fortunately, otherwise modrons and slaadi wouldn't be either, would they? Aren't they exclusively born respectively from recycled dead modrons and infected mortals?), and would definitely include 3.x formians.

Modrons arise from the energy pool and they usually do to replace a dead modron, that is correct. But the pool includes more energy than there are modrons, and when Primus wishes (like when doing the Modron March), it can create a lot more modrons than there usually are around. More than that, that energy is derived from petitioners. The pool is essentially a large conglomerate of liquid petioning. Edit: Also, sometimes the pool spits out things that aren't modrons, and IIRC some of those (like coggles) were called petitioners at one point.
Slaadi can arise from infected mortals, but they can also reproduce sexually, asexually (effectively budding), and, yes, from petitioners. As the exemplars of pure chaos, they've got the highest number of options for reproduction available.

A better counterexample would be eladrin and guardinals, who are described in the Warriors of Heaven as essentially very long-lived mortals that exclusively reproduce sexually. But Warriors of Heaven is probably the worst book ever written for D&D, and so we ignore it. This leaves the details of how eladrin and guardinals are petitioner-derived in Limbo , but afro at least is sure that they are.

[Metastachydium]

Slaadi can arise from infected mortals, but they can also reproduce sexually, asexually (effectively budding), and, yes, from petitioners. As the exemplars of pure chaos, they've got the highest number of options for reproduction available.

Is that true for 3.x? Asking for no reason whatsoever.

It is very possible that, should they have survived another edition or two, they would have reached Acheron and taken control of this plane as well.

Technically, at least one 3.0 module (Lord of the Iron Fortress) already attests Formian presence on Acheron.

Hah! Though wouldn't a creature specialized in Sense Motive and Spot be instead called a wisdom officer?

Nah. Those are apparently the corporate sector's new fad.

[Tzardok]

Is that true for 3.x? Asking for no reason whatsoever.

Beyond references to Slaadi going to the Spawning Stone to mate? I don't think 3.x mentioned it. I'm pretty sure you'd have to go to 2e sources.

[Metastachydium]

Beyond references to Slaadi going to the Spawning Stone to mate? I don't think 3.x mentioned it. I'm pretty sure you'd have to go to 2e sources.

Eh, figured that much. Couldn't hurt asking, though. And needless to say, thank you anyhow!

[GreatWyrmGold]

Edit: Some people apparantly think modrons are goofy and stupid. Such poor deprived sods...

Modrons are supposed to be geometrical shapes, but that idea of geometrical perfection is ruined by all the eyes and gears and limbs and greebles. They're supposed to be clockwork automatons, but by being confined to vaguely geometric shapes, their mechanical plausibility is lost. They don't look like celestial geometry or diligent automatons, they look like children's toys.

Modrons are a mashup of two non-complimentary aesthetics. Maybe they can be mixed harmoniously, but that hasn't been achieved in any official D&D art, or any fanart I've seen. Say what you will about inevitables, they pick an aesthetic and stick to it. (Maruts excepted; they look more stone-golemy than clockworky.)

[Beni-Kujaku]

Fossergrim

The fossegrim (note the difference in spelling) is, in norse mythology, a kind of male nixie that lives in waterfalls, plays harp and/or fiddle so beautifully that it would either lure people to drown or make trees, furnitures and cutlery dance. He would teach his musical skills to visitors performing ridiculous rituals such as giving him a food offering of a stolen smoked mutton plate four Thursdays in a row, and would have probably made a pretty good D&D monster.
The fossergrim is a boring Fey creature from 1e Deities and Demigods with no Perform skill who never misses his attacks when near its home waterfall. As always when looking at a disappointing adaptation of a mythological monster, Pathfinder did it better.

- Medium 5 RHD human-shaped amphibious Fey
- +4 Str, +6 Dex, +6 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wis, +8 Cha, +0 NA. Excellent stats all-around for a Fey with this number of RHD.
- 30ft land speed, 60ft swim.
- Permanent True Strike, Fast Healing 5 and SR 15 when inside its waterfall, dies in less than a day when more than 1,000 ft from it. This ability is obviously removed for a PC Fossergrim.

Soooo. Literally no ability when adventuring away from its waterfall (the original thread assumed Fast Healing and SR functioned in any kind of water. This is wrong and specified to only work near the splashing water of the one waterfall), but stellar ability scores. Meh, 4 RHD, DLA-1. Choose any class, you have the ability scores to make it work. Paladin seems like a pretty good choice. It would probably be LA+2 or +3 if it always counted as being in its waterfall. Next time, we continue with another regular animal from an Outer Plane : the Gathra.

[Metastachydium]

BO-ORING! (That it's salvageable as a bland heap of numbers that make it not useless, merely bland is just insult to injury, really.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Permanent true strike would be a pretty interesting ability to LA. It's a huge buff, but it's a buff to one specific kind of roll; it requires a significant level adjustment, for an ability that only makes your attacks more accurate—it doesn't increase their damage or let you take a hit better or help at all outside of combat.

Permanent true strike if both you and the target are in one specific river is, um. Less. And it's the only remotely interesting ability that the fossergrim has. I guess it also has environmentally-dependent SR and fast healing, which is nice, but also boring.

[remetagross]

The fey RHDs are pretty good, and the ability scores are crazy. The one thing that holds it back for a melee PC is the half BAB of the fey RHD. Apart from that, it's an awesome chassis for all the other classes. The very fast swim speed is a nice perk. Can they breathe water?

Honestly, I'd be on the verge of considering this race as-is for 5 RHDs.

[Metastachydium]

The fey RHDs are pretty good, and the ability scores are crazy. The one thing that holds it back for a melee PC is the half BAB of the fey RHD. Apart from that, it's an awesome chassis for all the other classes. The very fast swim speed is a nice perk. Can they breathe water?

Honestly, I'd be on the verge of considering this race as-is for 5 RHDs.

Dunno. The high mentals would help a caster more, where 5 RHD is a big no, whereas yes, poor BAB does hamper making good use of those physicals on a martial build. Hm. Maybe it could leverage the staying power bits combined with that CHA into going KNIGHT? But it would still be BORING with everything unteresting it's got going away once it steps out of the shower.

[remetagross]

Be a Battle dancer, put on your best Slippers of Battle dancing, and you're good to go. Or Snowflake Wardance. Or be a Paladin and go rock those Divine feats. Or a social rogue with a bazillon skill points. Yeah, fair enough, casters are annoyed by the racial HDs, so you're going to stick with a non-casting class.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Can they breathe water?

Absolutely. Actually, they technically, as written, cannot breathe air. But that's mostly because WotC never understood how their own subtypes work. (Aquatic) in particular makes no sense. By RAW and by itself, it does not give the ability to breathe air and requires the Amphibious quality for it. However, a creature like the Fossergrim or the scrag, depicted as living in shallow waters, interacting with landbound creatures and having human-like anatomy, are Aquatic but not Amphibious. To go even further, a whale can, by RAW, breathe underwater but not outside it, the exact opposite of real life.
In this thread, I always consider, if I don't have a reason to think otherwise, that all creatures with the Aquatic subtype can breathe both air and water, it's the only way to make it make sense.

[GreatWyrmGold]

To go even further, a whale can, by RAW, breathe underwater but not outside it, the exact opposite of real life.

In 3.5 at least, whales lack the Aquatic subtype (as they should).

[Beni-Kujaku]

In 3.5 at least, whales lack the Aquatic subtype (as they should).

They didn't in 3.0. Apparently the subtype was different back then. Savage Species reads "Aquatic Subtype: Green hags can breathe water or air equally well.". This makes slightly more sense (though whales should still not be aquatic even then).

[Metastachydium]

In this thread, I always consider, if I don't have a reason to think otherwise, that all creatures with the Aquatic subtype can breathe both air and water, it's the only way to make it make sense.

My, will that backfire when you finally get to Stormwrack!

[Beni-Kujaku]

Gathra

"What's that you said? I already made a joke about slight variations of existing animals and you're tired of having a regular animal from another plane with little to no unique powers? Well too bad! Have a howling devil-cow!"

The Gathra comes from the Nine Hells. It's a cow with both horns and tusks. That's great. Except it's not.
It blurs the line between Animals and Magical Beasts, being extremely similar to the Fhorge in its concept, being simply a herd animal from another plane, but bigger, meaner and somehow becoming a predator (I guess Outer Planes don't need herbivores when they have a constant influx of petitioners and Outsiders to kickstart the food chain). The only difference between the two is the fact that the Gathra has some DR and a mind-affecting cry, which I guess is enough to make it depart from the Animal type.

- 9 RHD Large Extraplanar Magical Beast
- +16 Str, -2 Dex, +16 Con, -6 Int, +6 Wis, +6 Cha, +14 natural armor. Fhorge-tier, but with more Charisma, because it has...
- ... a terrifying Bellow. It's just Fear 3/day as an SLA, except for some reason its DC is that of a 2nd level spell.
- One primary Gore, two secondary hooves, Trample, DR 10/Magic and Silver.
- Outsider traits... Wait, what? It's definitely a mistake, but it's nice to see the design process. I guess they changed it to Magical Beast when someone pointed out that Outsiders cannot be predators since they don't need to eat.

The DR is decent, the NA is excellent, and having three attacks with full BAB is better than one, but having a 2nd level SLA will very rarely be of any relevance. Strong 7 RHD, maybe even 8 in unoptimized games, and DLA-1.

It's hard to say if it's a mistake or not, but the Gathra is said to be used as a mount by demons, not devils. Since Avernus is the main battlefield for the Blood War, it's actually quite logical that invading demons would try to use creatures from the Hells against their opponents.
After the Fossergrim last week, we continue with creatures that wouldn't last long if Aquatic had its 3.5 meaning : the underground-dwelling (Aquatic) giant, the Bog Giant!

[Tzardok]

Do you really believe being an outsider would keep an evil cow from hunting you down and eating you?

[Beni-Kujaku]

Bog Giant

A giant, but for swamps. Not much more to say, except that the book disrespects them hard : "They are ugly, disgusting creatures, with mottled froglike skin and long, stringy black hair.". The game seldom straight up calls a creature "ugly", while here it doubles down by throwing a "disgusting" at it, which is uncalled for for a kappa-looking giant like the bog giant.

The Bog Giant has very similar stats to a Hill Giant (+14 Str, +0 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, +0 Wis, +4 Cha, +7 NA. Compared to a Hill Giant : +2 Dex, +8 Cha, -2 NA) and the same lack of ability, with only a 40ft swim speed and the ability to breathe underwater (but only a 30ft land speed). Don't be fooled by the fact that it is written as having a Huge Longspear, it's actually a typo and the damage is that of a Large Longspear. More Cha but no innate way to make use of it does not really balance having a slower land speed. Same ting as Hill, 6 RHD, and DLA -1 with its whole 8 RHD.

Golems

Each new batch of golems brings something new to the landscape of quasi-life-creating magic. In Fiend Folio, we get golems, but evil! "But how!? Aren't golems supposed to be automatons with no mind or alignments of their own?", I hear you say, you perfectly timed and convenient audience. Well, these golems are created infused with the essence of an Outer Plane, the belief in an Evil deity, or the intelligence and ambition of a Mind Flayer, anything that makes these golems actually more than metal and magic. And maybe, who knows, actually gives them interesting abilities?

Golems, at their core, all have a few things in common. Very high strength, DR and natural armor but low Dex, the Construct type and associated immunities but lack of constitution, and of course immunity to most spells and SLAs that allow spell resistance. Most golems are generally mindless, but since this is Fiend Folio, this last point won't apply to a lot of these.

Blood Golem of Hextor, 10 RHD, Large, +12 Str, -2 Dex, _ Int, +0 Wis, -10 Cha, +9 NA, DR 10/Adamantine
The Blood Golem of Hextor (not to be mistaken to the regular Blood Golem, who was ironically published much later) is the most "normal" of FF golems, being mindless and having regular golem stats, but it is still quite unique. It is composed of the blood of 16 humanoids sacrificed to Hextor, and is thus somewhat dedicated to protecting this faith and killing its enemies. "It is a cruel and malicious combatant, in that it apparently derives satisfaction from slaying enemies despite its lack of true intelligence". Another example of FF's "make everything evil, even if it does not make sense" policy.
The problem with creating a golem made of liquid is that it eventually leaks and goes back to a puddle of blood. Priests of Hextor thus graft a +1 full plate to their golems (for a total +18 armor and natural armor bonus), which reduces the leak but does not fully address the problem. The BGoH still leaks approximately 300cc of blood per day (one drop every 15 seconds or so), which translates to 5 HP per day. Fortunately, it can drink the blood of a helpless or dead creature, dealing 1 point of Con and gaining 5 HP per round (Is that the only way in the game to deal Con damage to dead creatures ?), even being able to go beyond its regular maximum up to having its HDs maximized (so 130 HP for the regular 10d10+30 golem), which makes this "issue" beneficial when you have no shortage of humanoids to be disposed of.
Additionally, the golem's arms finish in masterwork flails (probably enchantable), it can use the Improved Whirlwind Attack feat, but is then slowed for one round. It's a high maintenance creature, but being able to basically double your HP is invaluable for a Construct. That said, I would have liked to see an offensive ability beyond Whirlwind attack. 7 RHD, DLA-2.

Brain Golem, 12 RHD, Large, +12 Str, +0 Dex, -4 Int, +0 Wis, -2 Cha, +4 NA, DR 10/Adamantine
When an illithid wants to make a golem, what do you think is the raw material it uses ? That's right, brains! And a bit of an elder brain's grey matter. It should surprise nobody that such an abomination would awake to sentience, and gain some of a mind flayer's abilities, namely mind blast (1/minute, Will or stunned in a cone for 3d4 rounds) and inertial armor (permanent +4 armor bonus to AC). However, the fact that it is not made of inert material makes it an imperfect golem, with low natural armor and not even magic immunity. Instead, it has SR 15+HD, which is definitely worse but has the advantage of being explicitly suppressable by the golem if it wants to get buffed. And contrary to most golems, the brain golem has ridiculous stumps rather than true hands (which I'm convinced is by design, because Mind Flayers are fancy sadists), which means it can't hold items. 5 RHD, DLA-5.

Demonflesh Golem, 24 RHD, Large, +20 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, +26 NA, DR 15/Adamantine and Good
And we have a prime example of "whose idea was that!?". Each fiendish graft is already quasi-sentient, influencing their bearer and turning good recipients mad. I wonder what may happen when you create a whole body exclusively out of demon body parts... It turns sentient and starts killing people and fiends alike, of course! In Neverwinter Nights, it's even said that devils create those as war trophies from the Blood War, which seems incredibly stupid and asking for it to backfire, but who am I to judge ?
The Demonflesh Golem has demon wings allowing it to fly at 100ft (average, you may want to take Improved Flight), a demon tail with 25ft reach that dazes the opponent if they fail a DC 11 Will save (which is much too low to be consistent), demon eyes giving it a pretty damn strong fear gaze (fixed DC 19 Will or paralysis for 1d4 rounds) and permanent See Invisibility, a demon head giving it several destructive SLAs (Destruction and Horrid Wilting 1/day, Poison, Darkness and Unholy Aura 3/day), and a sentient demon claw attacking on its own (basically, it gets an additional standard each turn to attack with it at no penalty with a fixed Str of 35. My advice is to cast an SLA and then attack with the claw).
Once again, a golem made of living parts seems to have a flawed magic immunity, and the demonflesh golem's can be bypassed by many spells, including all spells with the good or law descriptor, and all death effects slow it for 3 rounds or until it uses one of its [Evil] SLAs.
This is all really strong, but definitely not epic tier, especially with such low stats apart from Str. Still, with the Fear Gaze, Magic Immunity and the independent claw, I think it is worth 13 RHD, DLA-7.

Hellfire Golem, 20 RHD, +14 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha, +16 NA, DR 15/Adamantine and Good
Rather than making a golem out of Outsiders, why not make one out of the very substance of a Lawful Evil plane? Oh wait, now it's on fire. Mark it as a resounding success.
I don't understand why this one is more intelligent than Demonflesh, it feels much more brutish in its tactics. 2 weak slams dealing an additional 2d6 Hellfire damage (half fire, half unholy damage), some pyromaniac CL 20 SLAs (Fireball at will, Flame Strike 3/day, the rest is irrelevant), and an easily bypassed Magic Immunity (all spells with the chaos or good descriptors function normally, and spells dealing cold damage do as well, but if they deal 20 damage on top of the golem's cold resistance of 20, they slow the golem as well).
I expected better than that. 10 RHD, DLA-7


We have regular golems in MM1, evil golems in FF, planar golems in MM3, and later "armored energy" golems in MM5. I can appreciate the will to stick to a theme for each book. Speaking of, we will continue the theme of the most interesting creatures in this book being powerful Undead next time, with the Hullathoin ! Merry Christmas to all !

[Metastachydium]

Bog Giant

A giant, but for swamps. Not much more to say, except that the book disrespects them hard : "They are ugly, disgusting creatures, with mottled froglike skin and long, stringy black hair.". The books seldom straight up calls a creature "ugly", while here it doubles down by throwing a "disgusting" at it, which is uncalled for for a kappa-looking giant like the bog giant.

Right?! Bad WotC! BAD!

The Bog Giant has very similar stats to a Hill Giant (+14 Str, +0 Dex, +8 Con, -4 Int, +0 Wis, +4 Cha, +7 NA. Compared to a Hill Giant : +2 Dex, +8 Cha, -2 NA) and the same lack of ability, with only a 40ft swim speed and the ability to breathe underwater (but only a 30ft land speed). Don't be fooled by the fact that it is written as having a Huge Longspear, it's actually a typo and the damage is that of a Large Longspear. More Cha but no innate way to make use of it does not really balance having a slower land speed. Same ting as Hill, 6 RHD, and DLA -1 with its whole 8 RHD.

It's interesting how the original RLA assessment apparently made a mixup between HD and CR an rated them as though they were 6 HD and still gave 'em a -0. (It's also interesting how WotC thought Rock Throwing is a good fit for an aquatic (and Aquatic) swamp-dweller, but that's par for course, I suppose.)

Merry Christmas to all !

And to you as well, if somewhat, khm, belatedly!

[GreatWyrmGold]

Don't be fooled by the fact that it is written as having a Huge Longspear, it's actually a typo and the damage is that of a Large Longspear.

Maybe it's a holdover from 3.0, when two-handed weapons were Large weapons, up and down the size chain?

"It is a cruel and malicious combatant, in that it apparently derives satisfaction from slaying enemies despite its lack of true intelligence". Another example of FF's "make everything evil, even if it does not make sense" policy.

How can we justify calling this the Fiend Folio if most of the creatures in it aren't even a little fiendish?

Additionally, the golem's arms finish in masterwork flails (probably enchantable), it can use the Improved Whirlwind Attack feat, but is then slowed for one round.

Wait, like the epic feat? That's a pretty handy ability.
Though on second glance, it's a pretty wimpy one—a normal whirlwind attack, plus your normal iterative attacks. It's not "full attack against every creature in reach," which might actually be worth losing half a turn.

When an illithid wants to make a golem, what do you think is the raw material it uses ? That's right, brains!

A golem made out of human food is basically a joke monster for a single adventurer's baker-mage antagonist. Makes sense!
A golem made of illithid food is apparently something that should be taken seriously.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Right?! Bad WotC! BAD!

No cookie for them!

It's interesting how the original RLA assessment apparently made a mixup between HD and CR an rated them as though they were 6 HD and still gave 'em a -0. (It's also interesting how WotC thought Rock Throwing is a good fit for an aquatic (and Aquatic) swamp-dweller, but that's par for course, I suppose.)

A few people corrected the number of RHD in their comments (namely Liquidformat and Thurbane), so it's hard to say whether all the commenters considered 6 or 8 RHD. And even then, Thurbane deemed it a borderline +0 with 8 RHD, lord_khaine voted +1 with 6 and Liquidformat only said it was -0 with 6 RHD by comparing it to a permanently enlarged Water Orc with multiclass penalties between barbarian and warblade. I understand there's a big opportunity cost to 6 RHD, but I feel -0 with 6 RHD is a little bit insincere (I admit I didn't read the original discussion for this one since it was so similar to Hill, but it's actually conforting me in my rating.).

Maybe it's a holdover from 3.0, when two-handed weapons were Large weapons, up and down the size chain?

Yes, that seems to be it. FF really is a unique book, with its hybrid rules between 3.0 and 3.5. Speaking of which, ...

Wait, like the epic feat? That's a pretty handy ability.
Though on second glance, it's a pretty wimpy one—a normal whirlwind attack, plus your normal iterative attacks. It's not "full attack against every creature in reach," which might actually be worth losing half a turn.

I was myself a bit confused here. I was looking at the 3.0 version of (Improved) Whirlwind Attack. In 3.0, the regular WA only allowed you to attack adjacent opponents, while IWA allowed you to attack your whole reach as a full round action (which is what the Blood Golem can do). IWA was then errataed after 3.5 released to only cost a standard action, then was reprinted in Dragon 343, which is the version you linked. I wonder if the golem saying it "can attack its whole reach as if using Whirlwind Attack" was supposed to be teasing the new version of Whirlwind Attack for 3.5, or if it was just an editing error.

How can we justify calling this the Fiend Folio if most of the creatures in it aren't even a little fiendish?

Oh, I get the purpose, I'm just amused by the form "it does these evil things that require feelings, even though it is mindless". Okay. How ? Does it take actions on its own ? How do we know it is satisfied of killing things ? In that case, like with the Knell Beetle, just give them intelligence if you want them to be intelligent, or at least enough Charisma to have emotions. It is imbued with the spirit of Hextor and the suffering of the sacrificial victims, I get that. Then make it show mechanically. The Waker's Law exists for a reason.

A golem made out of human food is basically a joke monster for a single adventurer's baker-mage antagonist. Makes sense!
A golem made of illithid food is apparently something that should be taken seriously.

A golem made of illithid anything is something to be taken seriously, because it means there's an illithid nearby !
More seriously, it's more something like an extension of an elder brain. There's always a bit of an elder brain at the center of a brain golem, and that elder brain can control and see through the golem as if it were here (in 2e edition lore, at least). After its purpose has been completed, the brain golem goes back and is absorbed back inside its progenitor. So it's both a calzone golem kept in the freezer for later, a flesh golem for brain-composed creature, and the poor man's Magic Jar.

[GreatWyrmGold]

More seriously, it's more something like an extension of an elder brain. There's always a bit of an elder brain at the center of a brain golem, and that elder brain can control and see through the golem as if it were here (in 2e edition lore, at least). After its purpose has been completed, the brain golem goes back and is absorbed back inside its progenitor. So it's both a calzone golem kept in the freezer for later, a flesh golem for brain-composed creature, and the poor man's Magic Jar.

If it's a basic construct like other D&D golems, it's weird to make it out of either food or elder brain bits. If it's an avatar of the Elder Brain, it's weird to call it a golem. It feels like it's torn between a couple different ideas, one of which I would like, but it's dragged down by the Eldritch Snacks Golem part.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Hullathoin

What is your favorite D&D 3rd edition monster ? Mine's is the stonesinger/Tralusk, at least currently. Great design, perfect ambiance and so much personality. The Hullathoin, on the other hand, does not go that hard aesthetically, but it is written such that its fight will be remembered by the players for a long time for the sheer mind-f*ckery of it all. Everything that didn't go into appearance went into the ambiance, from the setup to the fight itself. The Hullathoin is genuinely a monster that I advise you to use in your next mid-to-high level game, you won't regret it.

The Hullathoin is the result of the action of multiple blood locust swarms working together. Such a swarm (that we will cover later in Fiend Folio) is composed of Fine-sized bloodsucking insects dealing a negative level each round with their swarm attack. And when they eventually drain all of a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid's blood, it is reanimated as a fiendish vampire spawn. Which is one of the only ways the fiendish template can be applied to an undead. But what happens when bloodfiend locust swarms drain the blood from a Huge dragon and start living in its reanimated corpse ? Well, you get a Hullathoin.

The most important new ability of a Hullathoin, besides having vampire insects living inside of it, is being able to warp the body of any creature, modifying its appearance into mockeries of their original forms. The deforming works by touching the target with its two tentacles, which I'm convinced are just the remains of the dragon's wings, and can crucially use it on itself to either conceal its tentacles inside itself or temporarily burst open to release a swarm of bloodfiend locusts or nauseating pus. And on top of it, it can rebuke undead as a 20th level cleric and thus control the vampire spawns from its swarms.

So a fight with a hullathoin typically goes like : the party enters a lair and are attacked by vampire spawns leaking an abyssal aura and with a deformed face. As they go deeper, they see more locusts and smell a rotting stench before finding a freaking undead wingless dragon and two level-draining swarms, the former of which promptly sprouts tentacles, grabs one of them, and starts putting their nose where their ears were, and their ears were their eyes were, Bill Cypher-style. And while the party is trying to destroy the swarms to not be completely bloodless by the end of the fight, the dragon cadaver literally explodes and emits a ring of pus that puts half the party out of the fight while spawning even more unkillable draining swarm. Oh yeah, and there's probably one or two controlled shadows in the room. At that point, the only reasonable reaction after the end of the fight is "What the actual hell was that !?". To which the DM shall answer "A smoothie.". Do YOU wanna play that ? Because I sure as hells do !

- Huge Undead, 16 RHD. At its core, the Hullathoin is a melee grappler. Losing 8 points of BAB is rough.
- +20 Str, -2 Dex, _ Con, +2 Int, +6 Wis, +2 Cha, +20 NA. +20 NA is good, but 20 Str is sadly not enough to fully compensate for being an Undead, and the stat distribution is horrendous, with the biggest bonus (Wis) being a stat that does nothing for your innate abilities.
- 1 bite, 2 secondary stamps, 2 secondary tentacles. The tentacles are definitely the better weapon here, having 20ft reach, Improved Grab, built-in Improved Multigrab, a 1d10/1d10 Str poison (also on the bite), and deals an additional 1d6 Cha to a pinned opponent (corresponding to their body being deformed to the Hullathoin's liking.)
- Exude Bloodfiend Swarm. Simply creates a 14 RHD, 91 HP level-draining swarm as a standard action, with no limit. Seems broken, but it costs a lot of action for uncontrolled swarms. The swarm attacks any non-undead creature around, so in a standard party you will kill your friends as much as your foes. The original thread asterisked it as having "a limit", whatever that means, but I don't think it's necessary. It's mid-level, any adventurer that powerful has learned long ago to not trigger wightocalypse or shadowcalypse because it will backfire and other adventurers will come to kill them. Exude Bloodfiend Swarm is no different.
- Ring of Pus. 1/day, a 30ft emanation that deals 5d6 acid, 1d6 Str damage, and nauseates for ten rounds. Extremely good ability. And you know the best part of it ? It's (Ex) with no activation action, so technically it's free to use, 1/day. It's Con-based, so not broken, and only useable 1/day so much worse for a PC than for a monster, but it's still ridiculously good if it hits.
- Rebuke Undead. Devotion feats like this, but the Hullathoin needs more Cha.
- Immunity to cold and electricity, fire and sonic resistance 15, DR 15/Magic and Silver, Fast Healing 8, SR 10+HD, Blindsight 60ft, Scent, 60ft speed. Wow, those are a lot of special qualities, and good ones at that. Actually impressive, I feel like I'm looking at an Outsider.

It's just so mismatched. Each ability is flavorful, and quite powerful, but there's not much synergy betwen them, and none of them is a game-ender on its own, except Ring of Pus, which is only 1/day, has relatively low DC, and is almost as unfriendly as exuding a swarm. Plus, the ability scores are just bad, and the hullathoin has no hand. It suffers from most of what makes a monster different from a PC. Still, having options is good, the natural weapons are good and the defenses are excellent, and high-level rebuking will come up at one point or the other. 10 RHD, DLA-4.

The Hullathoin is a terrific monster, but a lousy adventurer. It's presented and supposed to be run as a necromancer, but it does not have the mechanical ability to do so without DM fiat, same thing with Deform, which creates a very nice environment full of warped vampire spawns, but mechanically is just slow Cha damage that will disappear in a few days. I still like my fiendish vampire tentacled dragon, at least much more than the next entry, the Indricothere, which only has its Huge size and 16 racial hit dice in common with the Hullathoin.

[remetagross]

Wow, that's quite the customer. Very nice monster indeed. I think it wants to get the ability to rebuke vermins, maybe through one of those Lolth-related feats, so as to make better use of its swarms.

Assigning a RHD to this guy is hard, because it's so far from any regular PC you could use for comparison.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Indricothere

Also known as Paraceratheriidae. It's like a long-neck rhinoceros, but without the horn, so at least 60% less cool. And the 16 RHD make for the remaining 40%.
As an animal, it has about as many special abilities as a hill giant, but at least one of them is interesting. When an indricothere hits something with a headbutt (like a giraffe), they are knocked back 10ft (Str-based Fort negates), fall prone if they hit a wall, and must make a second Fort save if the first fails to avoid being stunned for a round. Considering it's a Huge animal with +22 Str and that the movement from this knockback explicitly allows attacks of opportunity (allowing another chance to stun the target), there are things to work with, even if it's just "improve your strength as much as possible and become a Thayan Gladiator to make multiple head butts per round".

- Huge Animal, 16 RHD
- +22 Str, +0 Dex, +14 Con, -8 Int, +4 Wis, -2 Cha, +11 natural armor
- 40ft speed, 2 stamp attacks, one head butt attack with Knock Back
- Trample, scent

I guess that's enough strength for 7 RHD, DLA-6.


Why they chose the indricothere rather than any other extinct animal is anyone's guess. Next time, algae with dispel magic, it's the kelp angler !

[Metastachydium]

Indricothere

Also known as Paraceratheriidae.

Paraceratherium, actually. Paraceratheriidae is a family; you want the genus from within.

It's like a long-neck rhinoceros, but without the horn, so at least 60% less cool. And the 16 RHD makes for the remaining 40%.

That's funny coming from you, after the thing with the Dire Rhinoceros.

As an animal, it has about as many special abilities as a hill giant, but at least one of them is interesting. When an indricothere hits something with a headbutt (like a giraffe), they are knocked back 10ft (Str-based Fort negates), fall prone if they hit a wall, and must make a second Fort save if the first fails to avoid being stunned for a round.

Also, I absolutely love this. Why can't more Animals do actaulaay fun things?

I guess that's enough strength for 7 RHD, DLA-6.

Can't quite disagree there, though. This is one difficult size/shape/type combination, and I see no need to smother poor bruisers under too many HD.

Next time, algae with dispel magic, it's the kelp angler !

Hey, they are kinda PLANTIES! That's not half bad.

[Tzardok]

Why they chose the indricothere rather than any other extinct animal is anyone's guess.

Because indricotheria are kinda cool and kinda well known?