Mafia IV - Star Wars - NIGHT 8

[Andre Fairchilde]

Furious at the loss of the Jedi Nibleswick, the remaining Jedi and Rebels gather their weapons, pitchforks, and light sabers and search for Ominious.

The alleged gangster is found at the cantina, and as the mob approaches he turns to his secret weapon - hiring the bounty hunter Boba Fett as a bodyguard!

With a smirk, Ominious escapes out the back - escapes until Boba Fett traps him with a wire net, and shoots Ominious with a wrist laser.

"My notice that the rebels have raised their offer to me. Also, they don't mind if it's a disintigration..."

Boba Fett disintigrates Ominous.

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Ominious was lynched. Ominous was a Huttese Gangster.

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Thanks Crimson Mage for the FANTASTIC image!

Night 10 Begins Now!
Night 10 Ends after I have all inputs,
or at 8:00 Eastern Standard Time (US - 6 GMT)
Saturday Dec 5th

[EmeraldRose]

The Mandalorian shakes his head slowly following the announcement...

I'm certain my employer meant to say January 5, seeing as how it's no longer December...

[Andre Fairchilde]

The Jedi sat in the cantina, nursing some blue milk. "Whew! That was a tough fight! Thank goodness that Bounty Hunter was there to help. That gangster almost got away."

Seeing the bounty hunter approach, the jedi signaled the bounty hunter over to the booth to sit down.

"Hello! We haven't talked much, but I just wanted to thank you for helping us out back there - I don't know if we would have caught him if it hadn't been for your help."

Being the strong, but silent type the bounty hunter nods.

"Just let us know if there's anything we can do."

The bounty hunter nods, and grabs a pack of cigarattes. Pulling one out, he hands it to the jedi.

"Oh, no. I don't smoke anymore. It's bad for you. And I'm a good role model for kids. "

The bounty hunter shrugs and gestures with his hand quizzcally, as if to say 'Never?'

"Well, actually I quit, but a cigarette would be nice..."

Reluctantly the Jedi takes the cigarette, and pulling out his lightsaber lights the cigarette from the light saber.

"Cough! Cough! Ahh, that's the taste I liked....BOOM!"

The cigarette loaded with a thermal charge explosive forces the jedi to quit smoking once and for all.

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TheCrimsonMage was killed by the Huttese Gangsters. TheCrimsonMage was a Jedi.

Day 11 Begins Now!
Day 11 Ends January 7 at 8 PM Eastern Standard Time (-6 GMT)

[Crimmy]

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Dang!!
well,t'was fun to play.
anyway GO REBELS, THE HUTTESE CAN'T WIN!!!!

MAY THE Force Be with all of you ...

[Ominous]

Go, Jabba, go!

[Freshmeat]

When all is said and done, I think I'd like to see Zar Petergo.

[Kasz]

Kasz looks at Luke pointing at Zar Peter from across the cantina then looks around at the noticeable lack of people left.

[Zar Peter]

((Since I trusted Freshmeat this far and I didn't send him my role description because of holidays I think I'm the first wrong lynch victim. Oh well, was fun to play. Go team villager, hope you find the Hutts soon.

But at last I can show the smilie I'm nominated for : ))

Seems that Luke made his first mistake! This Zar Peter guy will never know where the Falcon is.

[Freshmeat]

In light of new information, I'll point at Shishnarfne instead.

[Zar Peter]

I think you convinced me here, Mr. Skywalker.

Point at Shishnarfne

[Kasz]

Kasz moves his gaze to Shishnarfne

[androgial]

yeah i agree more with the probabilities of shishnarfe being a hut than zar peter and i play the odds. then again ive been gambling since i got here to this worthless ball of dust.

[Shishnarfne]

I don't post for the weekend, and suddenly I'm on the chopping block?

Generally, I can only post from my office, now that I'm not with my parents over Christmas holidays, so that eliminates my weekend postings... Was this enough to make you suspicious?

Eldritch Knight hasn't shown up yet, and I find that somewhat suspicious myself.

Like I said to you, Freshmeat, I'm just a villager here, and I'm surprised at how EK managed to survive a few lynch mobs earlier...

Edit: Alright, after some thought, I've figured why (I think) I'm the target today. The reason, as this was the first WW game I signed up for, I made the 'mistake' of deleting my role PM. Thus, I couldn't prove that I was a villager unless scried as such (unless Jabba scries as a villager as well, in which case the scry list is probably now useless), so I didn't contact Freshmeat early.
When he contacted me, I had only my word that I was a villager, and no evidence (i.e. role PM), so that's why I think I'm at the top of the list, as I was unable to submit a role PM. Were I Jabba, I would have tried my utmost to obtain a copy of the original role PMs, so that I could submit a perfect forgery of the originals. The mechanics would be simple enough: scry a villager, contact them claiming to be the seer, and ask for a copy of their role PM to confirm my identity as "not the fool", then kill the witness at night.

I knew it would look suspicious when I submitted no role PM, but it would look more suspicious if I tried (and failed!) to reproduce one accurately from memory. My voting pattern has been largely an attempt to shed more light on people I thought looked more suspicious, rather than the daily bandwagon target, so while it may appear irregular, I was trying to express my concerns in the only way I was comfortable doing, so that those people who I thought were suspicious might gather attention. ...and pointing at Bushranger Day 2 was a mistake, and I'll be the first to admit it.

[androgial]

hmmmm you also need to pay more attention eldritch knight was already eliminated

[Freshmeat]

@ Shisnarfne: What you say is true. However, you're the only one that was unable to provide (seemingly) reliable evidence, so regardless of whether I think you're suspicious or not, there's no way I can let you live. If you die as an innocent, at least I'll know that somebody made a mistake and gave a role PM to the Hutts, which means I can ignore the entire PM issue and go back to other methods again.

[Raiser Blade]

I just wanted to pop in and say something.

Asking people for role pm's to prove their innocence is not playing in spirit of the game and I am not even sure stuff like that is allowed.

I know if I was narrarating a game than I would not allow this kind of tactic.

If I am totally off base here than just ignore me and go back to your game.

[Zar Peter]

I just wanted to pop in and say something.

Asking people for role pm's to prove their innocence is not playing in spirit of the game and I am not even sure stuff like that is allowed.

I know if I was narrarating a game than I would not allow this kind of tactic.

If I am totally off base here than just ignore me and go back to your game.

You can't control what people make in PM's. Only chance to obviate that is by Posting all role PM's in one of the narrator posts. I think I will do that in Discworld. Or you could make all role PM's different... but that's trailing this thread too far away.

[Freshmeat]

I just wanted to pop in and say something.

Asking people for role pm's to prove their innocence is not playing in spirit of the game and I am not even sure stuff like that is allowed.

I know if I was narrarating a game than I would not allow this kind of tactic.

If I am totally off base here than just ignore me and go back to your game.

I'll address this quickly because I've had a few other people wondering about this.
Yes, it is allowed. At least, Andre allows it in his game(s). I can't vouch for other games.
I don't see this kind of tactic employed all that much though (and I only rarely rely on it myself). Besides, since forging PM's is usually fairly easy anyway, I can see why Andre would allow it. On the other hand, I can perfectly understand arguments against role PM-swapping as well.
But it's certainly not against the rules.

[Ominous]

I don't allow it my games. It's a NAAF (Not At All Fun) strategy that I permanently ban people from my Mafia games for committing. Though, I generally make the villager PM public knowledge so there is no point in asking.

[Fleeing Coward]

The role pms is a sticky issue, not against the rules but kills part of the fun of playing in those games. I'll admit to doing it myself a couple of times before like in Rockstar 2 and it pretty much ends the game if you can get enough people to do it.
All you really need is to prove your innocence (the hard part) and then you can technically find out the whole villager list if you can get the people to agree to pm you.
I think Zar Peter and Ominous' approach is probably the best solution to this problem although all you really need is the villager pm. The masons can be proven by other methods and there's only one or maybe two of the other roles so you can never fully trust those anyways.

Also, while we're dicussing rules, what's with the introduction of the no self points rule? It's not really that big of an issue and can come in as a valid tactic in some situations as long as you don't overuse it.

[Zeb The Troll]

((If this has become allowable, this is a change from when I started playing WW games. I don't feel it's in the spirit of the game. However, it's so fraggin' easy to mock up something, I wouldn't trust anything that was sent to me claiming to be a forwarded narrator PM either. And it's nigh impossible to regulate in any case.))

[Andre Fairchilde]

Dawn breaks in Mos Eisley. The Empire has been eliminated… for now. Darth Vader spins in orbit his beacon signaling for a rescue pick up.

Han Solo and Princess Leia have been captured and killed, and the Huttese Gangters remain defiant.

But, Jabba has never been hidden. His gangsters are easy to find in Mos Eisley, his slave barge a regular sight, and all know where Jabba’s palace is.

After Zeb is slain on the doorstep of the palace, Thecrimsonmage assassinated, and Radikalskippy killed, and both C3PO and R2D2 removed from the equation the remaining Jedi and Rebels assault the palace.

A massive battle results in the defeat of Jabba, albeit temporary.

(Shishnarfne was lynched. Shishnarfne was Jabba the Hutt, the last Huttese gangster.)

As the Hutts achieved their secondary objective, they draw the game.

The Imperial Agents were eliminated, and lose.

The winners, the Jedi and the Rebel/Villagers.

Award Show to be posted Saturday, January 12th (or earlier if I can get it written up with the trophies).

Let the game discussions begin!

[androgial]

*takes a bow*

id like to thank everyone for their donations to the rebellion when they lost to me in the sabbac games. id also like to thank FC for taking the bait on day 2's voting and confirming what i was fishing for, after which i was sure that would have drawn a scry from jabba and vader so i pm'd the narrators and set up my escape plans. this awarded me a one shot message to any role in the game. i played the bait to try to protect the more important roles without knowing who they were at first. that part must have failed miserably. cant play a mafia game without a plan. as the saying goes know when to hold em know when to fold em know when to walk away and know when to run. good game everyone see you next one.

[Zeb The Troll]

Not a fan of the Star Wars theme, to each his own though, but I liked the way the game was run and the death scenes. I liked the secondary objectives, too. I thought they provided enough of a 'bonus mission' scenario without totally skewing the game away from what it's intended to be.

Then again, I wasn't very involved behind the scenes in this one so if there was stuff that needs to be criticized, I wasn't in the loop on it.

*mounts a nearby speeder and prepares to ride off into the sunset*

[Raiser Blade]

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In most of the games I have been in the pm thing was not allowed. I assumed that was the case in all of the games.

From now on I will make sure that all of the games I play in do not allow this tactic.

Thanks for the fun game andre!

[Fleeing Coward]

Well nice game all, unfortunate that it ended so quickly with the use of role messages and evnafet's decision to turn himself in at 2 mafias each especially with both devil alpha still alive. I genuinely believed that we still had a chance.
Either way, this was the most active ww group I've been in since I started and I enjoyed playing it alot. The bonus mission was a nice touch for something extra that the mafia groups could do while not distracting us too much from the main objective.
I for one was more suprised that topher turned out to be Hans (we didn't scry him but did kill Jontom Xire for the purpose of trying to get him lynched) and let us Hutts achieve our secondary objective while denying the imps theirs (Morkodai was abit too obvious there trying to protect topher).
The Bushranger coming out at the exact moment sort of ruined our plans with the baner and from that point I sort of lost any chance I had of convincing Freshmeat that I was the seer. I'm sure the fact that I genuinely somehow got radikalskippy confused as a rebel instead jedi until after Bushranger came out certainly didn't help my cause but I guess that's just the nature of the game.
Thanks Andre for running this, enjoyed it alot and look forward to the next one.

EDIT: Androgial, what are you talking about? We never bothered scrying you since the fact that you started pointing at me from the very first day meant that we had the perfect defence should you later decide to accuse me of been a hutt/imperial. Also, don't see why androgial was given the one shot message when the villagers already had the game tilted in their favor with a second day seer/baner/assassin on their side even though the circumstances caused their early demise.

[Zar Peter]

Jabba is dead! And I found the Falcon, at last. Chewbacca flew in the orbit of the planet and waited for landing permission. After Jabbas dead he could fly to Mos Eisley and heard about Hans dead. Poor Wookie. I take over the ship and will fly back to Cloud City in Bespin. They will need me there.
Diary of Lando Calrissian over and out.

((Thank you for running the game, Andre. It was very nice to read and to play in the universe. I hadn't much to do and since I had no role I wasn't very involved in any behind the scenes communications but it was fun anyway. Somehow I have the feeling we found the bad guys very quick.))

[Mordokai]

I for one was more suprised that topher turned out to be Hans (we didn't scry him but did kill Jontom Xire for the purpose of trying to get him lynched) and let us Hutts achieve our secondary objective while denying the imps theirs (Morkodai was abit too obvious there trying to protect topher).

Still one thing I need to learn. I just couldn't believe Leila would turn against Han. In game, that would be the smartest idea to do, and I knew that. In character, it would be just horrible. I decided to stay in character and that got me killed. I don't regret it too much, I had fun.

Good game indeed. I'm looking forward to next one.

[Freshmeat]

Well, first of all thanks to Andre for another great Mafia game. This is without a doubt my favorite WW variant, as three-way action is just to good to pass up.


There's apparently some confusion about a couple of things, so I guess it falls upon me to clear all of them up while going over the day-by-day gameplan.

Day 1: Nothing of interest happens.
Night 1: Protect myself, since there's no one else I trust at this point.

Day 2: Nothing of interest happens.
Night 2: Protect myself, since there's no one else I trust at this point.

Day 3: Fleeing Coward contacts me and claims to have scried me as the baner, which is correct. He also claims that Shadow is a villager. I'm not exactly sure if I can trust him, but since he's not asking to be protected (and I don't intend to do so either until he makes himself trustworthy) I've got nothing to lose by merely talking to him at this point.
Night 3: Protect myself, since there's no one else I trust at this point. FC has Zeb scried as a villager, and informs me of this.

Day 4:The votes are beginning to get interesting. Topher quite clearly gets framed, but I join the bandwagon anyway on the off-chance the masons are guiding the vote. As I discover later on, this isn't the case. Since nothing of interest is really happening, I also manage (somehow) to completely miss Mordokai's attempts to save topher. Else I probably would have saved him.
As such...
Night 4: Protect myself, since there's no one else I trust at this point.
I ask FC to scry Radikalskippy, since skippy seems to exhibit masonic behaviour to me (so he's either a Hutt, Imperial or Jedi). FC has him scried as a Jedi, but tells me he's a rebel instead, which later turns out to be a genuine mistake on his part.

Day 5: The Bushranger exposes himself as the seer. At this point, I'm pretty sure I know enough to incriminate FC, but just to play things safe, I contact Bushranger and make sure that his bandwagon against Dr. Bath wins the vote. Hero (the fool) contacts me and claims to have scried Dr. Bath twice already (coincidentally, exactly like Bushranger) and claims that Bath is probably safe because both times the result ended up as a non-wolf.
Needless to say, I find this 'jump-to-an-incriminated-wolf's-aid' spiel quite suspicious, but decide to keep Hero alive for now.
FC admits to making a mistake and that Radikalskippy is actually a Jedi. This makes me even more suspicious of FC.
I contact Skippy and get the entire mason list after some prodding. As it turns out, the masons are in contact with yet another 'seer': Raiserblade.
Anyway, Bath gets lynched, and the scrying action is bound to get interesting.
Night 5: Protect myself, since I'm assuming both factions know my identity at this point, and because I'm very likely to get attacked tonight (rather than the 'obvious' target Bushranger). Later on, this turns out to be a good move.

I ask Bushranger to scry Hero, who in turn scries FC. Since I'm pretty sure that Raiserblade is mafia no matter what, I don't contact him. FC informs me that he intends to scry Bushranger.
Bushranger scries Hero as the fool indeed (a role that Hero claimed all along), but Hero apparently scries FC as the fool.

So now I'm confused, as I'm assuming the 'fool scries seer as fool' rule is in effect. Since FC scries Bushranger to be a Hutt however (whereas Raiserblade scries Bushranger to be an Imperial), this makes little sense. I contact Andre to find out if the 'fool scries seer as fool' rule is in effect, and he says no, which clears things up considerably.

Day 6: I see that I got attacked by both factions, so now I know for sure that they know my identity. Time to take control of the voting phase then. I'm pretty sure FC and Raiser are both wolves, so after finding an incriminating PM sent by Raiser, I'll go with the safest target and get him lynched first. Before going down, Raiser tells the Hutts to attack Bushranger at night, and reveals that the Imps intend to attack me at the same time.

Night 6: Protect myself, since it benefits the rebels more in the long run (if I protect Bushranger, I die, and they just kill off Bushranger on the turn thereafter).
I ask FC to scry evnafets. If FC is a Hutt, he might be reluctant to kill off the seer because he'd know he'd automatically die then as well. There's also still a slight chance that he might give me a correct scry result again.
Meanwhile, I ask Bushranger to scry Curlykitgirl, whom he scries a rebel.

Bushranger also receives the PM sent by androgial through Andre, which was - on the whole - immensively confusing. Since androgial signed the message as 'rogue 2' (a character he signed the game up with and never ended up roleplaying it seems) I've no idea who this message is from or what it's even supposed to mean because, you know, I'm not Rain Man or something.
Since the message contains no useful information whatsoever anyway (and even hints at there being a special role in the game which I'm certain of there isn't), I chalk androgial's message up to confusion tactics on the wolves' part and ignore it.

Day 7: Bushranger gets killed, so today's target is pretty clear. I intend to get FC lynched, but he beats me to the punch and gives the Imperials a few choice targets to eliminate before actually dying.
Night 7: Protect myself, because if I die, the Rebels will definitely lose (there are still too much wolves left).
I ask Hero to scry Ominous. He may be the fool, but his scry is still 30% accurate, so given enough time, I might be able to find out someone's role with some accuracy. Hero scries Ominous as a rebel, but I'm pretty sure by then that that's just a random result.

Day 8: I go after Demonking because of vote analysis. (I could give a ton of insanely minor reasons which, added up, influenced my decision. Since there's still a large number of wolves left, and since this is already getting quite long, I'm just going to say right now that I actually will be leaving out some of my long-winded reasoning here.)
Night 8: Protect myself, since I can't risk dying as long as two factions are still around.

Day 9: I go after evnafets because of vote analysis/common sense. (He's one of the few people whom I can't label as a non-Hutt or non-Imp, so there's extremely good odds that he's a wolf. His general behaviour also seems fishy somehow, compared to the times I've seen him as a villager).
After accusing him, he contacts me and proposes an alliance. I'm tempted to accept his offer, but because I'm not at a liberty to make much (if any) mistakes at that point, I simply can't accept. He does send me the list of scried people though, which doesn't really help me at all, as everyone they've scried I already know about, is dead, or I already know about and is about to die (see below).

Curly and EK, my last remaining villager contacts die (although I never ended up contacting them, actually), but fortunately, so does the last Imperial (Lizard Lord, autolynched). With one faction out of the game, I finally have some breathing space and can actually afford to make *gasp* mistakes in the days to come.

Night 8: Protect myself, because I'd still like to play things safe.
I really, really wanted to protect Crimsonmage this night though, which, in hindsight, I really should have done.

Day 10: I go after Ominous because of vote analysis. Yawn.
Night 10: Protect myself, since the only thing can stop the rebels at this point is Jabba killing me off and escaping unharmed in the inevitable confusion that would follow. Of course, had I protected someone else, I would have given provisions to the remaining masons anyway, so that would have been a non-factor.

Day 11: Kasz and Shisnarfne are the last remaining suspects on my list, and Shishnarfne in particular looks suspicious to me. I'm all prepped up to get him killed off... until I see that he wasn't even online between the end of the last night phase and the beginning of this one. So unless he sent in his nightly kill action in advance, he's innocent.
So now I'm stumped, because I'm pretty certain he was the last remaining Hutt.

Kasz, my secondary target, doesn't seem all that guilty to me after I talk to him, which would lead me back to either Timberwolf, Zar Peter or androgial. Honestly, having an experienced player as Jabba would make a certain degree of sense, so I look over the three of them again to find out who I find suspicious. None of them do, but if I had to pick someone, I'd go with Zar Peter, so, reluctantly, I point at him.
It doesn't really matter though. I'm willing to bet everything at this point that Timberwolf and Androgial are innocent. Since I know Pwenet to be the last remaining Jedi, and since I'm obviously not going to consider myself suspicious, team Rebel can now no longer lose. Even if I make a mistake at this point, I can still lynch two more people (in a worst case scenario) until Jabba wins.
Since I merely have three suspects remaining (Zar Peter, Kasz and Shishnarfne) the only thing that matters now is finding out exactly when the rebels will win.

I send around some messages, hoping to get any information which might lead me to the real culprit, and - while I'm at it - check up on everyone else as well to ensure that I really should be trusting them. While I wait for replies, I also continue my trend of completely going OCD over minor details that might hint at a wolf. My suspicions still lie on Shishnarfne, but the fact that he wasn't online during the last night phase is really, really bothering me.

After some time, I get the results I need. Far more than I expected actually. I asked people for their role PM's expecting to get only one or so back, maybe two, but apparently everyone was able to clear their name, other than Zar Peter and Shishnarfne.
I point at Zar Peter, only to find him clearing his name as well later on, and then come full circle: the only one who wasn't able to provide evidence that he was innocent was the one I suspected in the first place: Shishnarfne. Except that by now, I'm considerably less certain of his guilt.

Still, since Shishnarfne, Kasz and Zar Peter have to go regardless (and it's merely a matter of finding the order in which Jabba is killed the fastest), I'm fine with offing Shishnarfne first.
He turns out to be Jabba indeed, and the rebels win.

[Freshmeat]

While I'm at it, a few observations/random stuff:

1. Both the Imperials and the Hutts were hampered from the start because they lost a player due to the autolynch each.
2. The Imperials had the misfortune of being discovered rather quickly by the lovers (Mordokai [Leia] scried Banjo rather quickly and had topher [Han Solo] kill him off), whereas the Hutts immediately killed off Endeavourl [I presume because he was roleplaying an R2D2 clone]). In fact, I attribute the fact that the Hutts didn't suffer from this to a considerable number of their members being fairly new and unknown. Those can fly under the radar for a long time.
I'm glad to see that it's also these people that proved to be active players.
3. Not merely one, but both factions actually tried to play things tricky by posing as the seer. That's, well, that's pretty interesting.
4. Team Rebel quickly lost most of the power roles. Topher was unfortunately enough lynched early on, and Mordokai died soon after. Then Bushranger exposed himself (rather than operate through a proxy) to save Zeb and get a wolf killed. That certainly took the oomph out of Team Rebel as well. Still, all three performed admirably, and I don't blame anyone for their lack of survival (after all, it's still a mafia game - 90% of the players won't see the end of the game anyway).
5. To me, it seems like the Hutts tried to control the votes too much. As I mentioned to Fleeing Coward on MSN earlier: due to large number of fishy, minor bandwagons that popped up and died out during nearly every day, it was perfectly possible to find the rest of the wolves belonging to a certain faction as soon as one dies. No seer required.
6. Regarding game balance: I think everything is fine as it is. Team Rebel certainly has a lot of abilities to work with (mostly due to the lovers), but had Strategos and Khaldan not been autolynched, things would have been very different. As you can see from this game, an additional Hutt and Imperial on each side would have gone a long way.
Keep in mind that it's also not very likely that Leia finds a wolf on her first scry attempt (and thus can immediately have that wolf killed off).

I've stated before that the 'draw option' is too easy to achieve, but I understand that Andre wanted to keep things simple for now, and I'm not sure how much attention anyone pays to the draw part anyway. It's really only a minor concern.
7. I pretty much left the masons out of the loop for days on end. Sorry about that, fellow Jedi, but with the exception of Shishnarfne, I was pretty certain about each and every target anyway, so I didn't see the need to discuss team Rebel's next target or the like.
8. After being scried twice by Bushranger and twice by Hero, I wouldn't be surprised if Bath was the most-scried person in a single Mafia game ever.