What Are You Playing: 9 Years since the Last Dragon Age

[GloatingSwine]

So, as someone who kind of missed the original Alan Wake, but now thinks it's probably right up my alley:
Does one, these days, play the remake or the original? Are there substantial changes between the two?

The only real difference is that the remaster works better on modern systems and includes the two DLCs.

[Anonymouswizard]

BG3 got me into a bit of a CRPG kick and after a bit of debate between whether to do a full Dragon Age or Pillars of Eternity playthrough, I've decided to boot up a new Pillars character. For all my gripes about Pillars worldbuilding I think embracing the Early Modern setting was a really good idea. It's also very funny to me that they cast the same actor as both of your earliest companions, and I respect that Mercer actually pulled off

Huh, I never realised he did both Eder and Aloth. Also I much prefer the Pillars world building to Dragon Age's, the main reason I'm not replaying it is the lack of a turn based mode in the first game.


Got properly stuck into Act 1 of WotR, doing things s little bit differently partially to avoid the slog that is the

Spoiler

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Defender's Heart battle.

Somewhat torn between going for Azata or Trickster but I figure I'll unlock both and make the decision later.

Kineticists are slightly annoying because until you get Precise Shot you're basically a support killer. However whenever the enemy actually brings archers or casters I'm very effective at killing off the support. Planning on picking up Fire as my level 7 element, it gives me access to both energy blasts and MAGMA.

[warty goblin]

Had a poke at a couple newish lower budget/indie games, both of which sorta make me eat my hat.

Stray Blade or, soulsish combat but good. That is to say soulsish combat but they bothered to actually make the action RPG game around it, instead of coasting on lore descriptions, vibes, and art style. So you play a voiced character with an actual personality, there's difficulty levels, somebody asked whether it made any metaphysical sense for dudes to reincarnate every time you took a nap break, realized it didn't, and made that not happen. Ditto corpse runs. Ditto tutorials you can accident just walk past. But the combat is still about deliberately timed attacks and dodging and parrying, because you don't need the asinine Souls formula to do that.

What you get is a fun action adventure RPG with a charming Kingdoms of Amalur art style, but with intricate level design and weighty, timing based combat. It's a pretty potent mix, and definitely satisfies my desire to hit fantasy dudes with a sword. So Souls combat, or something like it? Fine with me, just lose the dumbass design around it.

Tower of Time or good real time with pause combat. I am very much on the record as not liking RTP combat, this may well be the exception that proves the rule. Well, it massively slows down time instead of pausing, but same principle. The important difference is that, at least at the beginning, you only get two characters, which keeps things manageable. Also the game auto-slows time whenever you select an ability. This is a marvelous feature, since it means you don't really need to manage the slow-down, you get the time to target abilities sans stress, but things play out quickly when you don't need to micro. It's proper real time as well, not faking real time over a fundamentally turn based architecture, which, if you're going real time, is the way to go.

It helps that the story is reasonably intriguing. As a child in dying world with a forgotten and mysterious past, you find the ruins of the Tower, buried upside down in the earth. A mysterious voice says to come back when you are older, which you do. But you don't play as you, you play as a group of soldiers you are psychically guiding through a crystal throne. Weird and cool.

[Sapphire Guard]

Spoiler: Still DA2, post Deep Roads expedition

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If I'm posting too much, feel free to say so, btw.

Spoiler: Making Friends with Party Members

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The Party has irreconcilable differences on the mage/templar question, so the only way to stay friends is to have an all mage or all fighter party and suck up to whoever is nearby. Keep Aveline away from criminal activity, and Varric likes money. Merrill and Isabella are the trickiest so far (no advice please).

Spoiler: expedition

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I only brought my mage party because of Bethany's nagging, I wasn't going to prior to that. Should have kept to that instinct, unles it's one of those choices where she's executed by templars if you leave her behind.

Demons habits of instantly attacking as soon as you refuse a deal does not convince me of their honesty.

Bartrand, your plan was bad. Seal one door and hope there is no other way out, even though it's an entire settlement which presumably has other exits. Even if it doesn't we could probably open the door with a Stonefist or two.

[Batcathat]

Spoiler: Making Friends with Party Members

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The Party has irreconcilable differences on the mage/templar question, so the only way to stay friends is to have an all mage or all fighter party and suck up to whoever is nearby. Keep Aveline away from criminal activity, and Varric likes money. Merrill and Isabella are the trickiest so far (no advice please).

Isn't dealing with this kind of the point of the friendship/rivalry system? (Well, unless you literally mean that you want to stay specifically friends with everyone, then you're absolutely correct).

[Anonymouswizard]

Isn't dealing with this kind of the point of the friendship/rivalry system? (Well, unless you literally mean that you want to stay specifically friends with everyone, then you're absolutely correct).

Yeah, in DA2 'negative' approval isn't actually bad, flip flopping so they remain in the middle is bad.

Note that while Aveline is anti-mage she's not as hard-line about it as Fenris is and it's pretty easy to get friendship with her on a pro-mage run. I believe that Merrill is also less militant than Anders regarding the circles. But if a character is gaining rivalry points over friendship the best thing to do is nab more (especially for Isabella, due to reasons).

It's also quite hard to make Varric a rival, he likes a lot of things you'll be doing.

[Batcathat]

It's also quite hard to make Varric a rival, he likes a lot of things you'll be doing.

Yeah. In my last playthrough, I decided to actually try and max him out as a rival for what I think was the first time, as kind of a self-imposed challenge.

Similarly, while I often have Fenris in the party, I'm not sure I've ever had him as a friend rather than a rival, since my characters are usually pretty pro-mage (or at least not anti-mage enough for Fenris' liking).

[Anonymouswizard]

Urgh, I hate the Defenders Heart defence in WotR. It might even be okay in RTWP mode, but I'm playing on turn based where it's just a slog as the NPCs eat up a good 2-5 minutes per round, including a bunch who do nothing but stand there for the entire fight.

It's also not even difficult, in several plays of it I think I've lost a building once, and that's only ecause the AI cheesed their way around a summoned pit.

Now two thirds of the way through Act 1 and ready to see if I can unlock Azata and Trickster.

[Resileaf]

It's also quite hard to make Varric a rival, he likes a lot of things you'll be doing.

It's basically why the description for rivalry with Varric is "Varric will tell your story... Whether you like it or not."

He may dislike who you are as a person, but you're far too interesting not to write about.

[Anonymouswizard]

It's basically why the description for rivalry with Varric is "Varric will tell your story... Whether you like it or not."

He may dislike who you are as a person, but you're far too interesting not to write about.

The thing is it's HARD to get him to dislike you, especially if you bring him with you. It's not that there's not stuff he dislikes, it's that he likes so much stuff you'll nab Friendship points without realising.

But yes the point of Rivalry, and something I really wish Inquisition had kept, is that no matter how much they hate you Hawke has a strong enough bond with the party members that only major events can rend.

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So Isabella abandons you if you've waffled too much and she doesn't want either friend sex or enemy sex with you, whereas Sebastian leaves if you support who he sees as responsible for a terrorist attack and Anders can be killed by Hawke for being the one actually responsible.

The fact that Varric will always tell your story is an extension of that.

As a proof of concept the Friendship/Rivalry system is great, and there's even some neat little touches such as Varric being predisposed towards friendship and Carver's rivalry with Hawke actually being a stronger bond than Bethany's friendship (which you need to basically complete the game twice to properly see). It just needed improvement in Inquisition, so few RPGs try to have 'opinion' and 'closeness of bond' be separate (as in I can't think of any others).

Dragon Age 2 is a game where everything needed a good polish but was pushed out the door before they'd finished machining all the parts. It's still the best game in the entire series, but Inquisition could have been if it had built on DA2 instead of running in the other direction with everything. And yes I include the open world areas in that, the DLC showed Inquisition could be much better if the developers added more focus and structure to each map's quests instead of having twenty five disjointed ones and a ton of collectables. I'd love if the resurgence in popularity of DA2 caused Dreadwolf to nab some of the neater ideas from it (bring back dialogue tone icons!).

I really should replay DA2. Maybe after or as a break from WotR (level 5 and finally my Kineticist build is online).

[Batcathat]

As a proof of concept the Friendship/Rivalry system is great, and there's even some neat little touches such as Varric being predisposed towards friendship and Carver's rivalry with Hawke actually being a stronger bond than Bethany's friendship (which you need to basically complete the game twice to properly see). It just needed improvement in Inquisition, so few RPGs try to have 'opinion' and 'closeness of bond' be separate (as in I can't think of any others).

It also feels kind of inclusive in a weird way, since people have different types of friendships. If real life had a Friendship/Rivalry score, I suspect I would have Rivalry with most of my close friends and/or love interests.

[Errorname]

Huh, I never realised he did both Eder and Aloth.

He's got talent, no doubt.

Spoiler: Pillars 1 spoilers

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I do find it funny that he's technically doing three characters

Also I much prefer the Pillars world building to Dragon Age's, the main reason I'm not replaying it is the lack of a turn based mode in the first game.

I do too, for the record. It feels genuinely historical to me, ironically because they're more willing to embrace elements of modernity like colonial trading companies and early firearms. I just think that both Eoras and Thedas have a bunch of elements that feel like they were included not because the writers wanted them but because they thought players would expect them. If the creative leads had the freedom to do so I doubt either setting would have elves or dwarves.

[GloatingSwine]

If the creative leads had the freedom to do so I doubt either setting would have elves or dwarves.

Dragon Age would absolutely have had elves, exactly as they are with their status in the world lifted from The Witcher and all.

[Anonymouswizard]

I do too, for the record. It feels genuinely historical to me, ironically because they're more willing to embrace elements of modernity like colonial trading companies and early firearms.

Both Thedas and Eoras are supposed to have had technological and scientific development in the past thousand years, but only Eoras feels like it has. Some of it comes from embracing the renaissance tech level most D&D style settings actually use, a lot comes from Animancy being described and portrayed as a new field of study, and some comes from minor details like the fact the major nations have corrected their calendar because they realised it was slightly off

If I ever do another run it'll be as a firearm-toting rogue. Maybe a Hearth Orlan if I can find a decent picture, I like Orlans.

I'm pissed off that instead of Pillars of Eternity 3 we're getting The Older Scrolls: Pillarim partially because I want to explore more of this world in a game style that doesn't make me want to set fire to the console.

I just think that both Eoras and Thedas have a bunch of elements that feel like they were included not because the writers wanted them but because they thought players would expect them. If the creative leads had the freedom to do so I doubt either setting would have elves or dwarves.

I'm fairly certain that the Cipher/Watcher split is because they thought players would want a Sorcerer class, and despite how much I like the take I'm fairly certain PoE paladins got added on obligation. I also 100% agree that the designers of PoE would have remixed elves and dwarves like they did with orcs and halflings if they thought they could get away with it.

On Thedas I get much more of an 'aren't we so clever' vibe. I actually believe that the elves and dwarves are there because the lead designers thought they were great subversions of the fantasy staples, before going off and doing the exact same thing as everybody else with them (screw you Dalish, the city elves have been out of focus for almost the entire series). Weirdly though Primal Spells seem to have been included because the designers thought mages would be no fun without them.

I put it down to Obsidian just tending to have writing staff better at the small details, and those details are what make the world building click together. Which is probably what made DA2 so great, it's the only time Bioware tried to make the Superior Oblivion Sequel.

I think a surprise drop of PoE3 is the only thing that could delay me buying Rogue Trader on launch day. I really like PoE and how the setting is obviously trying to twist D&D tropes into something different. Sometimes it even succeeds!

[warty goblin]

Every time I've tried Pillars, it felt just different enough I'd have to pay attention, but not different enough for that attention to be all that rewarded. Also I kinda find combat an unfun mess.

Speaking of RTP combat and rewarding, Tower of Time continues to be a fantastic little gem. Got a third character, a sort of druid type with bad DPS but summons and healing, so that livens up combat a good bit. On Normal the fights feel just about right, the systems are pretty well explained, and there's plenty of non-combat exploration to keep things varied.

But really I just love the atmosphere of it. The whole game is a dungeon crawl, but thanks to some solid art design, lighting, and the dungeon being an upside down magical tower from before the apocalypse, the devs can pack it with any number of cool environments and it isn't jarring. Magical fountains, lost libraries, gardens, forges, remains of long-dead refugees still in their camps, it keeps the tower mysterious and fun to explore. And where most RPGs chronically overshare information about the world, this kinda drip feeds it so its actually fun and exciting to find. In the roughly 20 minutes a day I have to play right now its a blast.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Every time I've tried Pillars, it felt just different enough I'd have to pay attention, but not different enough for that attention to be all that rewarded. Also I kinda find combat an unfun mess.

Yeah. This. And the writing is...so verbose. Which is utterly hypocritical coming from me, but holy walls of text and exposition dumps! I tend to bounce/get bored every time I try sometime around the first big city.

Part of it is I'm not fond of micromanagement. At all.

[Anonymouswizard]

Every time I've tried Pillars, it felt just different enough I'd have to pay attention, but not different enough for that attention to be all that rewarded. Also I kinda find combat an unfun mess.

That's fair, Pillars of Eternity is basically a D&D setting where the designers asked themselves 'wouldn't it be cool if...' eight hundred times until the setting felt that little bit unfamiliar. It'll very easily fall into the 'this isn't worth the attention' category. So you've got fish orcs and cat halflings but they'll never feel like a radical new thing.

And Pillars 1 combat is very much a case of 'put this on snooze mode, I'm here for other things' deal for me. I know some people like it, but either it's in real time and I'm pausing every half second to deal with something or it's at half speed and too damn slow. The combat feels much better in the second game when they switched to turn based Tyranny* is a little better due to the smaller party, but I still don't like the combat.

* Probably the best of the Pillars games, partially due to the way spells work and partially because it basically focuses on the often underdeveloped evil routes, but the combat still sucks.

[Errorname]

Both Thedas and Eoras are supposed to have had technological and scientific development in the past thousand years, but only Eoras feels like it has. Some of it comes from embracing the renaissance tech level most D&D style settings actually use, a lot comes from Animancy being described and portrayed as a new field of study, and some comes from minor details like the fact the major nations have corrected their calendar because they realised it was slightly off.

Yeah. Obsidian's good at that, subtle stuff like having different currencies gives a real sense that this is a world where things grow and change.

I'm pissed off that instead of Pillars of Eternity 3 we're getting The Older Scrolls: Pillarim partially because I want to explore more of this world in a game style that doesn't make me want to set fire to the console.

The thing that got me worried about Avowed was when I saw the flintlocks, because I remember it being announced as a prequel set centuries earlier and the thing that made Pillars cool was the sense that technology had changed, that things evolved and changed.

I also 100% agree that the designers of PoE would have remixed elves and dwarves like they did with orcs and halflings if they thought they could get away with it

On Thedas I get much more of an 'aren't we so clever' vibe. I actually believe that the elves and dwarves are there because the lead designers thought they were great subversions of the fantasy staples, before going off and doing the exact same thing as everybody else with them (screw you Dalish, the city elves have been out of focus for almost the entire series).

Fair. I can be really confident about Pillars on this because Sawyer has outright stated in interviews and on his tumblr that Elves and Dwarves were included because they thought it was what players expected from an infinity engine inheritor and not because it was the creative preference of him or the other creative leads, but I've got nothing like that for Dragon Age.

I do think it's interesting that both settings have really fun and novel takes on their 'orc' equivalents that are easily the most memorable bits of their respective settings.

Yeah. This. And the writing is...so verbose. Which is utterly hypocritical coming from me, but holy walls of text and exposition dumps! I tend to bounce/get bored every time I try sometime around the first big city.

Pillars 1 is in desperate need of the Tyranny mouse-over text, which is no joke one of the most brilliant mechanics ever implemented into an RPG. As it stands they drown you in so much worldbuilding it's overwhelming.

[warty goblin]

Yeah. This. And the writing is...so verbose. Which is utterly hypocritical coming from me, but holy walls of text and exposition dumps! I tend to bounce/get bored every time I try sometime around the first big city.

Part of it is I'm not fond of micromanagement. At all.

It helped when I learned to hard ignore all the Kickstarter NPCs completely because those were just painful. But still, yeah, too much text.

That's fair, Pillars of Eternity is basically a D&D setting where the designers asked themselves 'wouldn't it be cool if...' eight hundred times until the setting felt that little bit unfamiliar. It'll very easily fall into the 'this isn't worth the attention' category. So you've got fish orcs and cat halflings but they'll never feel like a radical new thing.

I mean if they leaned harder on the weird stuff earlier on it would work better. Fish orcs sound really cool and I'd be down for messing around in fish orc culture or something. That'd be a memorable opening. Instead it's... killing wolves in ruins. Yay. I got farther than that, but it was all extremely standard encounters in extremely standard settings taken very seriously with way, way too much exposition. I don't necessarily mind standard settings, I really like the Drakensang games, which are extremely standard. But they use that standardness to reduce exposition, they don't need to explain anything because their dwarves are the dwarfiest dwarves to ever dwarfing dwarf, so when one of them shaves out of grief and shame you know it's a big deal. The whole point of a standard fantasy setting is that it conveys a lot of information extremely efficiently, being almost standard is just an inefficient version of almost the same thing.

Pillars 2 just doubles down on the blandness. The opening cutscene is all high stakes god drama, and then it's... killing boars on a beach. Yay. It's like going to a fancy restaurant, and instead of a bread basket they bring you a big mac. I confess that instantly scarpered my desire to keep playing.

And Pillars 1 combat is very much a case of 'put this on snooze mode, I'm here for other things' deal for me. I know some people like it, but either it's in real time and I'm pausing every half second to deal with something or it's at half speed and too damn slow. The combat feels much better in the second game when they switched to turn based Tyranny* is a little better due to the smaller party, but I still don't like the combat.

See that's the thing, for the amount of combat in a game like this - and the amount of game a game like this is - I really am not willing to put it on snooze mode. That's just bad design of a pillar (heh) of the experience; arguably there really isn't any gameplay in a cRPG besides combat and leveling, which only matters because of combat.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah. Obsidian's good at that, subtle stuff like having different currencies gives a real sense that this is a world where things grow and change.

Yeah, and it's those bits that link all the big ideas together.

The thing that got me worried about Avowed was when I saw the flintlocks, because I remember it being announced as a prequel set centuries earlier and the thing that made Pillars cool was the sense that technology had changed, that things evolved and changed.

Wait, what? I'll be honest I haven't followed pre-release material for Avowed at all, I checked out when I read what they were changing the gameplay to.

Fair. I can be really confident about Pillars on this because Sawyer has outright stated in interviews and on his tumblr that Elves and Dwarves were included because they thought it was what players expected from an infinity engine inheritor and not because it was the creative preference of him or the other creative leads, but I've got nothing like that for Dragon Age.

Yeah, I definitely remember something like that, although I suspect we'd still have had similar races if they'd followed their hearts. They'd just have had animal traits (probably one being reptilian) instead of pointy ears or beards

I do think it's interesting that both settings have really fun and novel takes on their 'orc' equivalents that are easily the most memorable bits of their respective settings.

I do adore the Qunari, they're the only race I'll play in Inquisition these days. I'll note both settings also have a race that was historically enslaved, and still often is in PoE, but the Orlans feel less defined by it than the elves do.

I really do need to play more Pillars 2, but I want to do a run of the first game with some different choices first. Notably the Philosopher background.

It helped when I learned to hard ignore all the Kickstarter NPCs completely because those were just painful. But still, yeah, too much text.

Thank all the divinities of Eoras that those NPCs have distinct nametags.

I mean if they leaned harder on the weird stuff earlier on it would work better. Fish orcs sound really cool and I'd be down for messing around in fish orc culture or something. That'd be a memorable opening. Instead it's... killing wolves in ruins. Yay. I got farther than that, but it was all extremely standard encounters in extremely standard settings taken very seriously with way, way too much exposition. I don't necessarily mind standard settings, I really like the Drakensang games, which are extremely standard. But they use that standardness to reduce exposition, they don't need to explain anything because their dwarves are the dwarfiest dwarves to ever dwarfing dwarf, so when one of them shaves out of grief and shame you know it's a big deal. The whole point of a standard fantasy setting is that it conveys a lot of information extremely efficiently, being almost standard is just an inefficient version of almost the same thing.

Pillars 2 just doubles down on the blandness. The opening cutscene is all high stakes god drama, and then it's... killing boars on a beach. Yay. It's like going to a fancy restaurant, and instead of a bread basket they bring you a big mac. I confess that instantly scarpered my desire to keep playing.

The fish orcs culture actually appears in the second game, but you start out dealing with the East Eoras Trading Company. The second game also suffers from the fact it reset the level cap and went back to square one on the enemies, when it could have had some cool amphibious monster designs.

See that's the thing, for the amount of combat in a game like this - and the amount of game a game like this is - I really am not willing to put it on snooze mode. That's just bad design of a pillar (heh) of the experience; arguably there really isn't any gameplay in a cRPG besides combat and leveling, which only matters because of combat.

Fair, as I said I'm just straight up here for a different thing in the first game (the excellent, if poorly paced and exposition heavy, story). I'm a massive Planescape: Torment fan so I'm perfectly fine with the main gameplay loop being 'click on NC, select dialogue options, repeat', Defiance Bay is literally my favourite part of the game.

[warty goblin]

The fish orcs culture actually appears in the second game, but you start out dealing with the East Eoras Trading Company. The second game also suffers from the fact it reset the level cap and went back to square one on the enemies, when it could have had some cool amphibious monster designs.

Resetting the level cap is fine, boring encounters are not. You can have interesting fights against meaningful enemies at low level, plenty of games manage it.

Fair, as I said I'm just straight up here for a different thing in the first game (the excellent, if poorly paced and exposition heavy, story). I'm a massive Planescape: Torment fan so I'm perfectly fine with the main gameplay loop being 'click on NC, select dialogue options, repeat', Defiance Bay is literally my favourite part of the game.

I don't object to dialog heavy games necessarily, that's fine if the material is engaging and well written. What I don't love is padding out the dialog with several boring massacres between the good bits.

Really, what I want is a game to have respect for my time. RPGs in particular really need this, because the genre expectations that they run 60+ hours and that more is always better leaves them extremely susceptible to bloat and padding. My experience is that a lot of more classically inflected cRPGs are extremely bad about this, particularly when it comes to lots of boring combat encounter padding.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The DA2 chatter is reminding me of just how good the character writing was. (I haven't actually finished it, I got stuck on the first big boss fight when I played at a friend's place, so I'm avoiding spoilers for now) While the companions in DA:O are nice, and a replay is reminding me of things I liked about them, they're not nearly as memorable as the DA2 companions -- I haven't touched the game in a decade, and I still remember the whole crew fondly. They were, above all else, distinctive, which then lets the game layer character work on top of that.

That said, I did watch most of Farscape in between my original play of Dragon Age Origins and my replay, so Morrigan is definitely fun to talk to.

[Anonymouswizard]

Resetting the level cap is fine, boring encounters are not. You can have interesting fights against meaningful enemies at low level, plenty of games manage it.

Yes, but resetting the Watcher to level 1 from level 16 feels like it was done so they could have the boring enemies again, when the changed setting allowed them to go with something different. Even just going for giant frogs and lobsters at level 1 would have been more interesting than angry pigs.

At least an early sidequest in Pillars 1 let's you fight ghosts.

I don't object to dialog heavy games necessarily, that's fine if the material is engaging and well written. What I don't love is padding out the dialog with several boring massacres between the good bits.

Really, what I want is a game to have respect for my time. RPGs in particular really need this, because the genre expectations that they run 60+ hours and that more is always better leaves them extremely susceptible to bloat and padding. My experience is that a lot of more classically inflected cRPGs are extremely bad about this, particularly when it comes to lots of boring combat encounter padding.

You're under no obligation to like the game. I like it despite the bad combat, for you it's a deal breaker. I like the exposition dumps to a certain extent, you hate them. That's fine, you don't have to like any game just because others like it.

I still don't like TES games despite everybody I know giving reviews at 3am in a woodland crowded around a portable stereo plugged up to a massive amplifier.

[Batcathat]

Yes, but resetting the Watcher to level 1 from level 16 feels like it was done so they could have the boring enemies again, when the changed setting allowed them to go with something different. Even just going for giant frogs and lobsters at level 1 would have been more interesting than angry pigs.

I suspect my lingering disappointment about the level reset is a big part of why I never got around to finishing the second game. I had (admittedly based on pretty much nothing) assumed it would be more like the transition from BG1 to BG2, instead of basically making a completely new character with the same name.

Also, this discussion is kinda making me wanna play PoE again. (Yes, it seems like 83 percent of my gaming habits these days are just playing whatever game people around here are talking about this week. ).

[GloatingSwine]

Yes, but resetting the Watcher to level 1 from level 16 feels like it was done so they could have the boring enemies again, when the changed setting allowed them to go with something different. Even just going for giant frogs and lobsters at level 1 would have been more interesting than angry pigs.

It was done because they changed the levelling and underlying systems (especially around what does and doesn't stack) so significantly that if you'd remained at level 16 you would have been making a whole lot of level up decisions with no context.

[LibraryOgre]

Urgh, I hate the Defenders Heart defence in WotR. It might even be okay in RTWP mode, but I'm playing on turn based where it's just a slog as the NPCs eat up a good 2-5 minutes per round, including a bunch who do nothing but stand there for the entire fight.

I actually love the Defender's Heart defense, but I've gotten so good at the prologue that I seldom wind up having to fight it... if you charge through everything (by making everyone ****ing EXHAUSTED), then you're done before it comes up.

But on those absolute slogs, especially when you're between waves? Turn off turn-based mode. Let it run realtime to avoid having to jump through the turns, then turn it back on when the bad guys arrive.

[ArmyOfOptimists]

I actually love the Defender's Heart defense, but I've gotten so good at the prologue that I seldom wind up having to fight it... if you charge through everything (by making everyone ****ing EXHAUSTED), then you're done before it comes up.

But on those absolute slogs, especially when you're between waves? Turn off turn-based mode. Let it run realtime to avoid having to jump through the turns, then turn it back on when the bad guys arrive.

Technically, you only need to find the entrance to the Keep. You can do that pretty quickly by rushing through the square. Once you've found it, you can return to Defender's Heart and you'll get a fat reward for moving so quickly. From there the defense never happens and you have all the time you want to explore the other areas (other timed scenarios notwithstanding).

[LibraryOgre]

Technically, you only need to find the entrance to the Keep. You can do that pretty quickly by rushing through the square. Once you've found it, you can return to Defender's Heart and you'll get a fat reward for moving so quickly. From there the defense never happens and you have all the time you want to explore the other areas (other timed scenarios notwithstanding).

I'm not sure about that... I've found that entrance plenty of times (I clean-sweep spaces before I move on), and also gotten the Defender's Heart... it all comes down to length of time, IME.

[Anonymouswizard]

I actually love the Defender's Heart defense, but I've gotten so good at the prologue that I seldom wind up having to fight it... if you charge through everything (by making everyone ****ing EXHAUSTED), then you're done before it comes up.

But on those absolute slogs, especially when you're between waves? Turn off turn-based mode. Let it run realtime to avoid having to jump through the turns, then turn it back on when the bad guys arrive.

Oh yeah, big battles and turn based mode font play well together, and about ten minutes was me forgetting to kill an alchemist I'd put to sleep. But I really, really don't like RTWP combat and there's only one combat that seriously drags in the first three acts so it's something I can live with.

Speaking of which I've hit act 2, current party setup is MC, Seelah (who took a horse over weapon buffs), Camellia, Sosiel, Lann, and Ember. I'll probably drop someone for Refill when I recruit him, and maybe swap Sosiel out and Daeren back in at the end of the act, but that'll probably be my party until Ashuerelah joins.

I'm considering sending Refill down Cavalier instead of Fighter or Hellknight, getting him some kind of exotic mount and the ability to provide Teamwork feats, the latter feels like it fits his character.

[Wookieetank]

Really, what I want is a game to have respect for my time. RPGs in particular really need this, because the genre expectations that they run 60+ hours and that more is always better leaves them extremely susceptible to bloat and padding. My experience is that a lot of more classically inflected cRPGs are extremely bad about this, particularly when it comes to lots of boring combat encounter padding.

Yeah, this is a big reason why even on JRPGs I've been dropping the difficulty I play at (when I have the option anyways). Grinding up levels to be powerful enough to get past the next story boss isn't as fun as it used to be.

As to currently playing, I've managed to make it most of the way through day 4 of Disco Elysium so far without having died once. Which with how the game was talked about here, was expecting everything being out to get me. I think my favorite character is the Horrendous Necktie, and wish it had more to say than it does (Inland Empire is currently at 11).

Spoiler: Spoilery things

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-Got the body down on day 3, with the help of the union, pretty sure that'll bite me in the ass later.
-Stashed it in the bear fridge and was able to discover the true cause of death on day 4
-Still trying to catch an Insulindian Phasmid, much to Kim's dismay
-Still working on getting the full story out of the Hardie Boys
-Really want to talk the shipping crate into opening, but don't have enough stats to (and unless I get luck with thoughts likely won't)

Going through my first playthrough mostly spoiler free, outside general hints/tips. It's a wild ride for anyone who enjoys narrative adventures.