Grrl Power VIII: Hotter Than What's In Sydney's Lunchbox

[Keltest]

We also now have to consider that evidently a succubus' power increases with experience but has a native ability start point, and that Parfait has a lot of native ability but little experience while Dabbler has less native ability but more experience.

And that their mother has more experience than Dabbler and possibly more native ability than Parfait. Which means that if Mom comes in through the front door disguised as a mortal and then triggers full lust aura, full strength - it's going to be way more effective than Parfait. As in plausibly, or even probably, people would continue coupling even if every alarm in the building was going off full force and they could actually see bad guys with weapons entering the building. How much more powerful is someone with centuries of experience and incredible native power going to be than Parfait? Oh, and also it's evidently possible to build amplifiers for the aura, just in case Mom needs help.

This is mind control. And it's mind control, Pathfinder rules, where a natural 20 on their save moves someone from "critical fail" to "fail", not to success. That is, quite possibly Mom has a lust aura with a save DC of 99 and no one in the building has a modifier to their Will save of more than +40. Oh you rolled a 20? That's cute. Your 60 still fails by 39. You get one round to do one simple thing that is within easy reach before you have to roll again.

So we've now got a plot hole the size of Mount Everest, and the ongoing "let's create dungeons so we can have magic potions" plot means giving Dabbler the ability to create even more powerful potions - of healing, great. Of mind control, not so great. Remember the Book of Vile Darkness? Remember Mind Rape? Ever see the problems that can pose for a DM, when the Emperor is now the wizard's puppet? Do you want to find out what Deus would do with a potion of mind control?

Making up a scenario not supported by the text isnt a plot hole, its just you reading things that aren't there. Theres STILL no evidence that they couldnt put it down if something happened like an attack, and at any rate its no more a security vulnerability than, for example, them being asleep in their homes like they do every night. A supercharged lust bomb is like the least subtle and effective way to go about it, because now youve alerted everyone in the building that something weird is going on.

[Dragonus45]

This is mind control. And it's mind control, Pathfinder rules, where a natural 20 on their save moves someone from "critical fail" to "fail", not to success. That is, quite possibly Mom has a lust aura with a save DC of 99 and no one in the building has a modifier to their Will save of more than +40. Oh you rolled a 20? That's cute. Your 60 still fails by 39. You get one round to do one simple thing that is within easy reach before you have to roll again.

For real, I was huffing the copium big time that was something more similar to say Mistborn's Rioters and Soothers and just trying to give Dave credit but this was the step too far. It's Mind Control, it's vile.

[Kantaki]

So... That confirms Dabbler is secretly a villain, I guess?

[InvisibleBison]

So... That confirms Dabbler is secretly a villain, I guess?

Yes, that was my reaction as well.

[Shining Wrath]

Making up a scenario not supported by the text isnt a plot hole, its just you reading things that aren't there. Theres STILL no evidence that they couldnt put it down if something happened like an attack, and at any rate its no more a security vulnerability than, for example, them being asleep in their homes like they do every night. A supercharged lust bomb is like the least subtle and effective way to go about it, because now youve alerted everyone in the building that something weird is going on.

The text absolutely supports that Mom is more powerful than Parfait, and that Mom's aura could be further amplified by devices. Now since so far as we have been shown every single person in the building began engaging in some sort of sexual activity because of Parfait, I think you need to acknowledge that (1) This is mind control and (2) if people were hit with a far more powerful mind control aura that they might not be able to resist it at all. Especially given the amplifier devices. Can, e.g., Deus give Mom an amplifier that makes her aura 10,000 times as powerful? OK, maybe that fries out the brain, so we only need to be 100x as powerful as Parfait before rational thought becomes impossible. Or 5x. There is some level of mind control where resistance is futile.

According to pretty much every D&D type game and lots of fantasy literature, there's a "Domination" spell or equivalent where the victim cannot resist the commands of the spellcaster. Vampire's gaze, Imperius curse, and so on. It's a very well established trope. So, give me an argument, using in strip canon, that *all* mind control effects can be resisted no matter how strong. Link to the strip, please. I've established that in-strip it's possible to exert a mind control effect more powerful than Parfait's - much more powerful. Can you prove, using in-strip canon, that it's always possible to overcome mind control, no matter how powerful?

[DataNinja]

Alright I'm done. I tried giving Dave so much benefit of the doubt, tried to interpret the mechanics of this in the most generous way that I could. But what the ****ing actual ****ing **** is this ****. A "just what I needed aura"... ****ING REALLY! This has managed to land in the most vile way it could have, and the bit about how the only possible reason anyone could be mad is because Earth are all still a bunch of sexist prudes is the maraschino cherry of absolute incompetence and failure on top of this whipped excrement pie.

Yeah, uh, holy cow. "People would be upset about this violation of their consent, so I'm violating their consent more to make them fine with it" is like the worst possible answer to all of this. It was bad before, but somehow this is even worse than I expected.

[Traab]

The text absolutely supports that Mom is more powerful than Parfait, and that Mom's aura could be further amplified by devices. Now since so far as we have been shown every single person in the building began engaging in some sort of sexual activity because of Parfait, I think you need to acknowledge that (1) This is mind control and (2) if people were hit with a far more powerful mind control aura that they might not be able to resist it at all. Especially given the amplifier devices. Can, e.g., Deus give Mom an amplifier that makes her aura 10,000 times as powerful? OK, maybe that fries out the brain, so we only need to be 100x as powerful as Parfait before rational thought becomes impossible. Or 5x. There is some level of mind control where resistance is futile.

According to pretty much every D&D type game and lots of fantasy literature, there's a "Domination" spell or equivalent where the victim cannot resist the commands of the spellcaster. Vampire's gaze, Imperius curse, and so on. It's a very well established trope. So, give me an argument, using in strip canon, that *all* mind control effects can be resisted no matter how strong. Link to the strip, please. I've established that in-strip it's possible to exert a mind control effect more powerful than Parfait's - much more powerful. Can you prove, using in-strip canon, that it's always possible to overcome mind control, no matter how powerful?

When fighting in the black vault the guardian used some form of stat debuff on everyone. Here. It crippled the supernatural monsters, sydneys shield made her immune, dabbler explicitly had well over 100% resistance to debuffs. Thats two methods of blocking this potential armegeddon super succubus elder mom coming in with full magi tech to amplify it to insane levels. Obviously there are ways to bypass block or counter it or else mind control dommy mommy would rule the universe. But thats not using in strip examples, its simple logic for the setting. So unless we get a smash cut to dabbs mum cackling on a throne inside a room titled "Throne room of all reality, the ruler of said sits on that chair" Im going to go with yes, it can be dealt with. You guys have lost all sense of logic or reason and flown into total panic mode where everything is ruined forever because archon might not be totally impregnable to everything ever.

[Shining Wrath]

When fighting in the black vault the guardian used some form of stat debuff on everyone. Here. It crippled the supernatural monsters, sydneys shield made her immune, dabbler explicitly had well over 100% resistance to debuffs. Thats two methods of blocking this potential armegeddon super succubus elder mom coming in with full magi tech to amplify it to insane levels. Obviously there are ways to bypass block or counter it or else mind control dommy mommy would rule the universe. But thats not using in strip examples, its simple logic for the setting. So unless we get a smash cut to dabbs mum cackling on a throne inside a room titled "Throne room of all reality, the ruler of said sits on that chair" Im going to go with yes, it can be dealt with. You guys have lost all sense of logic or reason and flown into total panic mode where everything is ruined forever because archon might not be totally impregnable to everything ever.

They weren't immune to this particular thing, which we know in strip can be much more powerful than it was this time.

I didn't say there was no counter. I said Archon hasn't implemented any counters. Right now this a gaping hole in security. I also wonder what the counters might look like.

Also, Dabbler is casting "calm emotions"-equivalent right now, and again, on everyone in the building. Can that be amplified? Seems plausible. So instead of a lust aura that sets the whole building to boinking, a "calm emotions" aura that results in people not really caring very much that Godzilla was just teleported into the main conference room. Yes, I know, big G wouldn't fit, that's kinda the point.

Archon needs to raise their defenses against mind control magic. And so does every other seat of power on the planet. Parliaments and Congresses and CEOs and Prime Ministers and Presidents and police officers and you name it - you, too, can have your behavior influenced. "I didn't rob that store, the cashier wanted to give me all the money in the till!"

Once mind control enters the story we need to know how a person protects themselves. Any person, not just heroes.

[Traab]

They weren't immune to this particular thing, which we know in strip can be much more powerful than it was this time.

I didn't say there was no counter. I said Archon hasn't implemented any counters. Right now this a gaping hole in security. I also wonder what the counters might look like.

Also, Dabbler is casting "calm emotions"-equivalent right now, and again, on everyone in the building. Can that be amplified? Seems plausible. So instead of a lust aura that sets the whole building to boinking, a "calm emotions" aura that results in people not really caring very much that Godzilla was just teleported into the main conference room. Yes, I know, big G wouldn't fit, that's kinda the point.

Archon needs to raise their defenses against mind control magic. And so does every other seat of power on the planet. Parliaments and Congresses and CEOs and Prime Ministers and Presidents and police officers and you name it - you, too, can have your behavior influenced. "I didn't rob that store, the cashier wanted to give me all the money in the till!"

Once mind control enters the story we need to know how a person protects themselves. Any person, not just heroes.

I doubt very much this version of calm mind would stop them from fighting off a room sized godzilla suddenly appearing. At most it would keep people from panicking and handle the scenario rationally. Arianna making tracks for the nearest safe room without screaming, that sort of thing. And please, for the love of all thats holy, keep in mind that its been like 8 HOURS since parfait lost control. I know for us we have had weeks to talk about this mess and how it needs to be fixed, but come on and let them have 5 minutes to think before you start demanding dave show you a 50 panel spread of every world leader now wearing a tiara of mind control blocking or whatever. We know its possible to block against it, assume they are competent and working on establishing said blocks now that a problem has been demonstrated.

[Nettlekid]

What exactly is the point of this little narrative sub-arc? Like the thread has been lost for years, I would say the Vehemence fight was the last time this comic actually felt like it was about superheroes instead of monsters and aliens and now fantasy demons, but this detour seems especially aimless. Was it just an excuse to say "lol all of Archon banged each other, isn't that kind of hot?"

[Sean Mirrsen]

So... That confirms Dabbler is secretly a villain, I guess?

She's A: a demon, B: an alien, and C: an adventurer. Take your pick. She's on the side of the heroes, she does good deeds, she doesn't need to comply to any other moral compass. You want to label her a villain for being okay with an ability her entire species has by default, well, that's on you.

I think you need to acknowledge that (1) This is mind control and (2) if people were hit with a far more powerful mind control aura that they might not be able to resist it at all.

I'm sorry, if you take exception to mind control in this comic, then you're late by... how many years now? When was the fight with Vehemence? It was even discussed in-universe, as a security risk in the eyes of the public.

This entire argument is like "killing people is bad, so let's send The Joker to Arkham for the 100500th time instead of executing him for the thousands of people his schemes killed just this last time he escaped".

[Rydiro]

The solution to mind control is more mind control! Why didn't I think of that?

The most irritating thing is that the author seems to agree with Dabbler.
Its either no big deal for him or a net positive.
He doesn't understand why people dislike what happened in his zany, sexy "slice of life" comic.

I mean it could be an interesting exploration of alien morals and their consequences.
I'm kidding, he doesn't have the writing skills, maturity nor attention span to make that work.

I'll still be reading it, because he has other qualities, but damn is he playing to his weaknesses.

Edit: Oh and there is the implication that gender equality means everyone is cool boinking everyone. Else you are just an underdeveloped society on a galactic scale.

[Shining Wrath]

She's A: a demon, B: an alien, and C: an adventurer. Take your pick. She's on the side of the heroes, she does good deeds, she doesn't need to comply to any other moral compass. You want to label her a villain for being okay with an ability her entire species has by default, well, that's on you.



I'm sorry, if you take exception to mind control in this comic, then you're late by... how many years now? When was the fight with Vehemence? It was even discussed in-universe, as a security risk in the eyes of the public.

This entire argument is like "killing people is bad, so let's send The Joker to Arkham for the 100500th time instead of executing him for the thousands of people his schemes killed just this last time he escaped".

Did I ever say I thought portraying mind control was inherently bad?
I am saying that Dave's not thinking this through very carefully. The point about Vehemence is a good one and points to the idea that Archon (and all the world leaders) should have been protecting against mind control 500 strips ago. If the POTUS (is Obama still in charge?) got overwhelmed by V's aura that could have negative consequences, too.

Mind control really complicates story telling, and Dave seem oblivious.

[AvatarVecna]

What exactly is the point of this little narrative sub-arc? Like the thread has been lost for years, I would say the Vehemence fight was the last time this comic actually felt like it was about superheroes instead of monsters and aliens and now fantasy demons, but this detour seems especially aimless. Was it just an excuse to say "lol all of Archon banged each other, isn't that kind of hot?"

This is part of the issue for me. It's been about a dozen comics about this particular part of things - not since Parfait was summoned, but since she lost control. A month and a half spent on...whatever you wish to call this. And there's a couple options for that. The first is that Dave has spent a month and a half lovingly, carefully, slowly putting Chekhov's Gun on the wall, and all of the people complaining about this as a huge security issue are right...or it's still just a slice-of-life aside, and he really just wanted to have an excuse to smash all his action figure's genitals together, and the only reason it's dragged on this long is cuz he feels he has to explain and explain and explain why no actually it's not that bad you're all just prudes for thinking a lust aura is a problem and this is exactly why Earth in-universe isn't respected in the intergalactic community. It's just like the Month Of Deus' **** where Dave handled the narrative concept of a "sleeping with everybody checklist" even worse than a porn comic by having nothing to say other than "and that's pretty cool isn't it".

[TeChameleon]

Starting to think we should have named this thread "The Office 'Shut up about the succubi! Shut up about the succubi!' /The Office"

Even after all his waffling on about it, I don't think Dave has anything to add to the discusion except 'hurr hurr, sexy people get horny!'

... and then somehow making it even creepier.

[InvisibleBison]

She's on the side of the heroes, she does good deeds, she doesn't need to comply to any other moral compass.

First of all, calling Archon heroes is deeply questionable, though we can't really get into that without breaking the forum rules. Suffice it to say that this comic isn't really interested in exploring the moral implications of superpowers.

Second of all, neither being on the side of the heroes nor doing good deeds is enough to prevent one from being a villain. You have to also not do anything bad to avoid that label, and Dabbler is in this comic doing something very bad indeed.

And while Dabbler obviously is under no obligation to comply with my or anyone else's sense of morality, that doesn't mean we can't use our own sense of morality to judge her behavior.

You want to label her a villain for being okay with an ability her entire species has by default, well, that's on you.

The fact that a species inherently has an ability does not mean they get a free pass for using it, or for thinking it's ok to use it. All humans by default have the ability to strangle other humans, but that doesn't mean we're ok with people using that ability.

[Dragonus45]

Yeah, uh, holy cow. "People would be upset about this violation of their consent, so I'm violating their consent more to make them fine with it" is like the worst possible answer to all of this. It was bad before, but somehow this is even worse than I expected.

Yea, as it was before this page it was presented as just a shenanigans aura that gave people a nudge to do something stupid the same way a low cut shirt or a well placed 6 pack might. Why Dave decided to undercut it just makes no sense whatsoever.

This is part of the issue for me. It's been about a dozen comics about this particular part of things - not since Parfait was summoned, but since she lost control. A month and a half spent on...whatever you wish to call this. And there's a couple options for that. The first is that Dave has spent a month and a half lovingly, carefully, slowly putting Chekhov's Gun on the wall, and all of the people complaining about this as a huge security issue are right...or it's still just a slice-of-life aside, and he really just wanted to have an excuse to smash all his action figure's genitals together, and the only reason it's dragged on this long is cuz he feels he has to explain and explain and explain why no actually it's not that bad you're all just prudes for thinking a lust aura is a problem and this is exactly why Earth in-universe isn't respected in the intergalactic community. It's just like the Month Of Deus' **** where Dave handled the narrative concept of a "sleeping with everybody checklist" even worse than a porn comic by having nothing to say other than "and that's pretty cool isn't it".

At least with the Deus stuff it kind of fits to set up the idea of Deus as someone who has achieved everything and anything and now has to push to fulfill his all consuming greed by seeking wild new experiences that money alone could never buy. Or I'm projecting a more interesting character arc onto him and seeing a better comic where there isn't one. I try to give authors a lot of latitude and trust they will go somewhere with something but GrrlPower just maxed out it's credit line and retroactively I think Dave just is never going to do anything interesting with these setups.

[Neponde]

retroactively I think Dave just is never going to do anything interesting with these setups.

I discovered this comic somewhat recently, and it feels to me like there is a whole lot of potential here that just.. doesn't ever get realized. Someone's comment about Vehemence earlier made me realize that I've been looking for the plot pretty much since that point. It seems to have devolved into cheese and beef and not so thinly veiled smut, periodically interrupted by a story. I might have to relegate this now to an "annual checkup" comic, sadly. This last parfait bit really frustrated me too.

[Forum Explorer]

Yeah, uh, holy cow. "People would be upset about this violation of their consent, so I'm violating their consent more to make them fine with it" is like the worst possible answer to all of this. It was bad before, but somehow this is even worse than I expected.

So remember when I said I had absolutely no faith in Dave's ability to salvage this situation? Yeah, I'm feeling very justified right about now.

She's A: a demon, B: an alien, and C: an adventurer. Take your pick. She's on the side of the heroes, she does good deeds, she doesn't need to comply to any other moral compass. You want to label her a villain for being okay with an ability her entire species has by default, well, that's on you.

Just because you are different, doesn't give you a pass to do whatever you want. People judge others based on their own set of morality, not on the morality they have. Because by that same logic, you should never judge a racist for being a racist, because that racist thinks he's doing good things, no matter how much everyone else things he's an absolute scumbag.

Or in short, I'd very much put succubi into the same category as vampires. So long as they are feeding off willing people or donations, sure, they can live in society. As soon as start feeding on unwilling innocent people, they should be killed ASAP. Dabbler, and yes Parfait, have both crossed that line. Because while Parfait may have made a mistake, the real problem is she doesn't consider it a bad thing to do. Embarrassing or clumsy maybe, but not a 'I did something awful that harms people' thing. And I'd say that's as incompatible with humanity as say, a dragon who things it is perfectly acceptable for them to eat anyone who annoys them because their culture responds to insults with lethal force

I discovered this comic somewhat recently, and it feels to me like there is a whole lot of potential here that just.. doesn't ever get realized. Someone's comment about Vehemence earlier made me realize that I've been looking for the plot pretty much since that point. It seems to have devolved into cheese and beef and not so thinly veiled smut, periodically interrupted by a story. I might have to relegate this now to an "annual checkup" comic, sadly. This last parfait bit really frustrated me too.

To quote someone else 'Dave wants to be Deus and wants to date Dabbler.'

That really feels like that's what the plot is about. Just exploring a universe where Deus and Dabbler are basically correct with Maxima and Sydney getting to have the occasional adventure. Because at this point we've had the Beyonders, who weren't really a challenge, the alien invasion, which wasn't really a threat, Daude, who wasn't really a threat, and a bunch of B-plots. The last threat was Sciona who was only scary for her having an elaborate plan (which fizzled), and for stranding Sydney halfway across the galaxy.

Regardless I was already basically done with the comic, this is just pouring concrete on the grave.

[Shogo]

Yeah. This is pretty nasty. A group of people were sexually coerced through mind control. It wasn't intentional, but in and of itself that's still pretty bad. Just because you didn't intend to do something bad doesn't mean it wasn't still bad, and there are crimes in real life where you get punished for things you didn't intend to happen but which still did happen as a result of your actions. And, really, she absolutely should have anticipated her lust aura would trigger when talking about something that so readily makes not just her horny, but all succubi horny.

Then in the aftermath a bunch of people who were (mostly) forced to do something they wouldn't otherwise have done are all weirdly okay with it. But don't worry. We were told that the lust aura high wasn't totally gone and people would start getting upset. Except that isn't what happened. Not only that, we've just been told that the real reason everyone has been so chill about this is because Dabbler decided she needed to double down on the mind control. To zap them with an aura that would make them totally fine with having their sexual autonomy and ability to meaningfully consent taken away from them.

I've disliked Dabbler from pretty much the beginning. It's grown into a rather strong dislike over time. I feel it's safe to say I actively hate her at this point. It really isn't helped by the fact that this comic just can't seem to shut up about succubi, and how it tries to dismiss any criticism of them as mere prudishness. You don't have to be a prude to despise sexual predators.

[DataNinja]

So remember when I said I had absolutely no faith in Dave's ability to salvage this situation? Yeah, I'm feeling very justified right about now.

Yeah, I didn't really have any hope, I just wasn't expecting basically doubling down on the problem. I know I'm very much done now. Things have felt very scattershot for ages, and this is very much the kick in the teeth I needed to realize that it's not going to get better. (Really, I should have followed my gut and gotten out when Dave decided to delve into succubus slavery and whatnot the first time and it felt... tone-deaf, but I've always tended to give things too much of the benefit of the doubt.)

[Sean Mirrsen]

Just because you are different, doesn't give you a pass to do whatever you want. People judge others based on their own set of morality, not on the morality they have. Because by that same logic, you should never judge a racist for being a racist, because that racist thinks he's doing good things, no matter how much everyone else things he's an absolute scumbag.

Or in short, I'd very much put succubi into the same category as vampires. So long as they are feeding off willing people or donations, sure, they can live in society. As soon as start feeding on unwilling innocent people, they should be killed ASAP. Dabbler, and yes Parfait, have both crossed that line. Because while Parfait may have made a mistake, the real problem is she doesn't consider it a bad thing to do. Embarrassing or clumsy maybe, but not a 'I did something awful that harms people' thing. And I'd say that's as incompatible with humanity as say, a dragon who things it is perfectly acceptable for them to eat anyone who annoys them because their culture responds to insults with lethal force

I don't particularly subscribe to the line of logic you outline in the first paragraph, but I think you should know that I still don't judge you, regardless of what I think. Howzat? :P

My morality is that taking lives is worse than mind control. Do I label every soldier, and every cop who's had to kill a perp for whatever reason, an irredeemable monster, by that line of logic of yours?

Both Dabbler and Parfait know that, in the context of Earth, what they've done is wrong. Maxima has told Dabbler in no uncertain terms what she thinks of mind control, just minutes prior. But Parfait is not beholden to the standards of Earth, and has already been banned from the premises, so Dabbler has no reason to further reprimand her. And Dabbler, despite the warning she just received from Maxima, still knows that it's better if she does what she needs to, so that the team as a whole does not suffer, and the consequences don't spill out beyond what may befall her should her involvement be discovered.

You're letting whatever disgust you have for mind control cloud your judgement. In-universe, it's already established as a bad thing, and you're up in arms because a succubus is doing what she does best to protect both her family and her team to the best of her ability, human ethics be damned.

[Gez]

The solution to mind control is more mind control! Why didn't I think of that?

Always a flawless plan!

This is why I voted for the thread title to be "no, let me explain more and make it worse". It would have been so much more fitting than talking about hotness...

[Shining Wrath]

I think I agree with Neponde. I can come by and view this comic every so often and see if they are doing something super-heroic.

[Dragonus45]

Always a flawless plan!

This is why I voted for the thread title to be "no, let me explain more and make it worse". It would have been so much more fitting than talking about hotness...

And always relevant as well!

[Steven]

Dave said that he doesn't want to be The Boyz. Cool. Good. That particular niche probably doesn't need more exploring, especially by Dave. But if you don't want to be The Boyz, KEEP THE SEX CONSENSUAL DAVE! Don't dance around grey areas with it, don't create story lines were you not only present people having their minds influenced in a way that they have sex with people in a situation they wouldn't normally and then have them act fine with it AND THEN REVEAL THEY'RE HAVING THIER MINDS MANIPULATED TO BE OKAY WITH IT. Especially when, and I accept that maybe my limited ability to write narratives means I'm missing something, it contributes nothing to your story or your world building except to get a bunch of characters to bang because you think it's hot.

Every single piece of information we gained here could have been gained by simply having Dabbler pick up on Parfait loosing control and blocking it or stepping in or whatever. Every bit of what is upsetting to people could have been avoided and anything relevant to the plot could have been kept.

I can be fine with the existence of stories I don't like, I can even applaud people who try and write stories which explore complex ideas that I find distasteful if I can see it serves a purpose even if they don't always get it right, but playing around with consent in a hamfisted way like this for what seems to be entirely because he thinks it's a fun sexy addition to his story? That's why I'm not reading the comic any more.

[Forum Explorer]

I don't particularly subscribe to the line of logic you outline in the first paragraph, but I think you should know that I still don't judge you, regardless of what I think. Howzat? :P

My morality is that taking lives is worse than mind control. Do I label every soldier, and every cop who's had to kill a perp for whatever reason, an irredeemable monster, by that line of logic of yours?

Both Dabbler and Parfait know that, in the context of Earth, what they've done is wrong. Maxima has told Dabbler in no uncertain terms what she thinks of mind control, just minutes prior. But Parfait is not beholden to the standards of Earth, and has already been banned from the premises, so Dabbler has no reason to further reprimand her. And Dabbler, despite the warning she just received from Maxima, still knows that it's better if she does what she needs to, so that the team as a whole does not suffer, and the consequences don't spill out beyond what may befall her should her involvement be discovered.

You're letting whatever disgust you have for mind control cloud your judgement. In-universe, it's already established as a bad thing, and you're up in arms because a succubus is doing what she does best to protect both her family and her team to the best of her ability, human ethics be damned.

Considering I've met some pacifists with that exact stance, then yes, yes you would. That wouldn't make you right, or correct in any way, but it would make sense. And a lot more sense then going "well the soldiers don't think they are doing wrong, so I don't have the right to judge them."

Most people would be okay with things in context. Like a cop killing someone attacking others. They don't approve of murder, but they'll make an exception for a trained professional protecting others. And I'd say I'm okay with mind control in a similar context. Like Dabbler controlling Jabby when she was attacking people. Or if, hypothetically, Peggy lost control and pulled a gun and tried to shoot Parfait. Key part being that lost control stuff. No preempting anything because by that same logic everyone could/should be mind controlled all the time so they don't commit any crimes.


Dabbler can argue what she's doing is for the benefit of the team, but she doesn't have the right to make that call. Particularly when it comes to the second part, protecting her sister from the consequences of her action. Particularly again, when the people in question are right to be angry.

Basically Sydney and Parfait messed up big, and normally people would be upset at them. To the point of holding grudges about it apparently and maybe even causing members of the team to be kicked out or quit. Same with Sydney for that matter. Would Sydney have forgiven Parfait's sexual assault if her ability to be upset wasn't being suppressed? They messed up, they should face the consequences of the emotions they hurt so they can properly make amends for their actions instead of them thinking everything is hunky-dory.

What's more Dabbler knows that Maxima (her commanding officer and person in charge), would flat out forbid Dabbler from doing anything like this if she knew about it. For that matter, most of the team would likely say the same thing (apparently Gwen is okay with it). So she's going behind everyone's back to mind control them. Rather than, you know, things getting out of hand and then Dabbler suppressing emotions and telling them about it.

Finally, and this is the kicker that puts Dabbler into the 'monster' category for me, she sees nothing wrong with any of her or Parfait's actions. This isn't 'a regretful necessity for the greater good' or even 'I'll do anything to protect my baby sister', it's 'this was a good thing, and I'll prevent anyone from thinking otherwise.' Both Dabbler and Parfait seem incapable of thinking that what they did was wrong. Like you know, a monster who is incapable of understanding why eating people would be wrong.


Or to put it another way, you said Dabbler and Parfait know they've done wrong. This page disproves that notion as Dabbler's attitude is that they are 'rescuing' archon from not having sex. That Parfait's actions were an achievement to be lauded, not be upset at. And that emotional suppression to prevent anyone from being upset is a perfectly reasonable action to take in response. If Dabbler thought she was doing something wrong, then she'd treat this with more gravity.

Even Parfait seems more upset at the idea of embarrassing Sydney and Dabbler than at the idea of 'hey I might've just ruined someone's relationship' part of things.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I think a big problem with what Dabbler is doing is that the team is so okay with the situation. Which means no matter where her aura falls on the influence scale, it was either unnecessary (they were already okay with the situation, so messing even subtly with their minds is at best overkill) or mind control (some of them weren't okay with the situation, but her ability is enough to completely change their stance). So no matter what, she's messing with her teammates' minds more than she needs to even for her stated goal.

[Traab]

I think a big problem with what Dabbler is doing is that the team is so okay with the situation. Which means no matter where her aura falls on the influence scale, it was either unnecessary (they were already okay with the situation, so messing even subtly with their minds is at best overkill) or mind control (some of them weren't okay with the situation, but her ability is enough to completely change their stance). So no matter what, she's messing with her teammates' minds more than she needs to even for her stated goal.

I think its more that its being setup as a "dont panic" aura. So they can think about things more logically than you normally would after waking up from a sex session with coworkers you had never intended to approach. (But in all honesty wouldnt mind approaching) However, to me, the real problem is with the amorphus/jigga encounter. Everyone else is either single, or got with their partner, so it wouldnt be that crazy if, without instinctive panic, everyone calms down and is accepting about what happened and talks it out rationally to make decisions on things. The event happened by accident, nobody involved got hurt, they had fun in fact, so not too huge of a problem to work through, and it even has the potential to setup future relationships. But amorphus cheated on his girlfriend. Not through his own choice, but it still happened so there is where I think the calm down and dont panic aura wouldnt help much. Because logic and reason dont change what is.

All that said, i fully agree its sketchy as heck and should be treated as that rather than a good thing dabbler is doing on her own initiative, and knowingly against the wishes of her commander. Ugh, I was fairly content with the ending of the arc until this comic too. Punishments doled out, everyone talked about things and work is being done in the background to try and avoid this in the future. But then "Oh yeah, im still mind influencing people because this makes it easier to settle" is not the best ending.

[TeChameleon]

Okay, wow.

This would be skeevy as all hell in a straight porno. In a setting with actual developed characters who are more than just flesh puppets to playact sex, it's edging towards... I'm not even sure what to call it. It's definitely a crime of some description. It really kind of tipped Dabbler over the edge for me from 'sex pest' to 'should be on a list'.

If this whole scenario happened because some juniour chem wiz decided to roofie everyone's drinks, and then their older sibling pumped tranquilizers into the ventilation to keep things from 'getting out of hand', instead of it all being 'magic', I kind of suspect that this discussion would look a little different. And yes, I know the whole 'lost control, not their fault' narrative is going on, but the fact remains that power overload or not, what Parfait did to Sydney was assault (trying to phrase things very carefully here). Removing the ability of the entire building to meaningfully consent and then acting like that's some kind of accomplishment and mind-controlling them to be okay with it is... it's not even supervillain behaviour, it's just magic molestation and would result in criminal charges in a just universe, or at least diplomatic expulsion for Parfait (and no, I haven't forgotten diplomatic immunity, it doesn't really extend to 'compromising a secure military facility without consequences').

... for some reason I'm reminded of that awful Superman story where he was mind-controlled to sleep with Mister Miracle's wife by an Apokoliptian aptly named 'Sleez', who got kicked off Apokolips for being gross. Yes, there was a villain in Superman comics that the frigging god of evil (well, tyranny, but whatever) thought was too disgusting to keep on their hell-world. I have no idea why DC thought the whole mess was a good idea, but there you have it. And now Dave has written one of his supposedly good characters as the moral equivalent of Sleez.