Grrl Power VIII: Hotter Than What's In Sydney's Lunchbox

[Traab]

Okay, wow.

This would be skeevy as all hell in a straight porno. In a setting with actual developed characters who are more than just flesh puppets to playact sex, it's edging towards... I'm not even sure what to call it. It's definitely a crime of some description. It really kind of tipped Dabbler over the edge for me from 'sex pest' to 'should be on a list'.

If this whole scenario happened because some juniour chem wiz decided to roofie everyone's drinks, and then their older sibling pumped tranquilizers into the ventilation to keep things from 'getting out of hand', instead of it all being 'magic', I kind of suspect that this discussion would look a little different. And yes, I know the whole 'lost control, not their fault' narrative is going on, but the fact remains that power overload or not, what Parfait did to Sydney was assault (trying to phrase things very carefully here). Removing the ability of the entire building to meaningfully consent and then acting like that's some kind of accomplishment and mind-controlling them to be okay with it is... it's not even supervillain behaviour, it's just magic molestation and would result in criminal charges in a just universe, or at least diplomatic expulsion for Parfait (and no, I haven't forgotten diplomatic immunity, it doesn't really extend to 'compromising a secure military facility without consequences').

... for some reason I'm reminded of that awful Superman story where he was mind-controlled to sleep with Mister Miracle's wife by an Apokoliptian aptly named 'Sleez', who got kicked off Apokolips for being gross. Yes, there was a villain in Superman comics that the frigging god of evil (well, tyranny, but whatever) thought was too disgusting to keep on their hell-world. I have no idea why DC thought the whole mess was a good idea, but there you have it. And now Dave has written one of his supposedly good characters as the moral equivalent of Sleez.

The chemist analogy is terrible for what happened. Its more like, an alchemist is trying to turn everyones drinks into soda, accidentally creates it with aphrodisiacs in it, and the alchemist is caught up in things just like everyone else. Then their teacher goes, "While that wasnt ideal, its impressive your strength was far enough to effect everyone in the buildings drinks." Its still not perfect as parfait wasnt even trying to do anything but at least its closer. What dabbler is doing is really not ok. Its one of those ends justify the means scenarios but they dont. She is doing her best to avoid having this experience cause major issues with the team, but she is still effecting their minds to make it happen, even if it is temporary. As she admits she is basically going to be overdosing on mana potions just to make it last the night. And on top of that is clearly and with full acknowledgement of the fact, ignoring her commanders orders.

[Rydiro]

To quote someone else 'Dave wants to be Deus and wants to date Dabbler.'

That really feels like that's what the plot is about. Just exploring a universe where Deus and Dabbler are basically correct with Maxima and Sydney getting to have the occasional adventure.

Well put. The wild thing is, Dave seems to actually believe these things.
"Having sex with whomever whenever is no big deal, is without consequences and all naysayers are prudes. Also, everyone should be poly, because thats the easiest relationship arrangement."
Sydneys alien boyfriend is basically just a toy, to boink her every now and then.
Dave doesn't seem to get that there is more to a relationship.
Like this is written by a horny teenage boy. And even some of those are able to think beyond their next gratification when you question them.

[Traab]

Well put. The wild thing is, Dave seems to actually believe these things.
"Having sex with whomever whenever is no big deal, is without consequences and all naysayers are prudes. Also, everyone should be poly, because thats the easiest relationship arrangement."
Sydneys alien boyfriend is basically just a toy, to boink her every now and then.
Dave doesn't seem to get that there is more to a relationship.
Like this is written by a horny teenage boy. And even some of those are able to think beyond their next gratification when you question them.

Too be fair we do see sydney dealing with all sorts of issues involving that as she really isnt up for a poly relationship, and frix is just being really nice by not drawing attention to any other adventures he may be having. So she is free to ignore it and its basically a alien booty call thing rather than a real romantic relationship.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Gee, heaven forbid the comic about a world of inexplicably perfect-bodied superheroes and superheroines be an author's personal fantasy of some description. Good lord, people.

[Rydiro]

Gee, heaven forbid the comic about a world of inexplicably perfect-bodied superheroes and superheroines be an author's personal fantasy of some description. Good lord, people.

Fair point. I was just hoping for it to be always better written than fanfic. To be fair, it mostly is, its just that the writing pitfalls stand out.
Anyway, now we are off to other topics involving succubi.

[John Campbell]

Yeah, I didn't really have any hope, I just wasn't expecting basically doubling down on the problem. I know I'm very much done now. Things have felt very scattershot for ages, and this is very much the kick in the teeth I needed to realize that it's not going to get better. (Really, I should have followed my gut and gotten out when Dave decided to delve into succubus slavery and whatnot the first time and it felt... tone-deaf, but I've always tended to give things too much of the benefit of the doubt.)

Yeah. I've been reading this thing since before the bank, and... I'm done. If he'd left it as it was last Thursday, I probably would've let it slide a little longer, but Monday's page undermined even his weak authorial-fiat, "Everybody's okay with it, so it's fine!" (it's not) with, "Actually they're probably not okay with it but we'll never know because Dabbler magic-roofied everybody, and that's a totally fine and cool thing for her to do!"

It's also just been getting further and further away from the comic that I started reading, with no signs that it's ever going to get back to that — or even that the intro is even compatible with the reality in which the comic exists now. I mean, when was the last time any of the characters (other than Sydney) from the first strips even appeared? I signed up for a comic about a geek girl who runs a comic store and plays superhero RPGs with her ordinary friends and deals with regular relationship problems even though she's an actual superhero herself, not one where we haven't even seen the inside of the comic store in, I dunno, years? and she's banging furries from outer space and getting date raped by succubi.

[tomandtish]

I believe someone summed it up best in the comments for the comic itself.

(Paraphrasing) "Dave, we all know you want to do a porn comic. Just do it and don't try and hide it with pseudo explanations that make it even cringier".

I have to agree with John. it's time to go.

[Forum Explorer]

Gee, heaven forbid the comic about a world of inexplicably perfect-bodied superheroes and superheroines be an author's personal fantasy of some description. Good lord, people.

Heaven forbid people express their opinion about an author's publicly published fantasy when it is directly impacting the quality of the story.

Generally speaking, putting your own fetishes in a non-pornographic story tends to really damage the quality of the work. I've either never seen it done successfully, or it was done so subtly that I didn't notice at all. Maybe Girl Genius?

[AvatarVecna]

Heaven forbid people express their opinion about an author's publicly published fantasy when it is directly impacting the quality of the story.

Generally speaking, putting your own fetishes in a non-pornographic story tends to really damage the quality of the work. I've either never seen it done successfully, or it was done so subtly that I didn't notice at all. Maybe Girl Genius?

Totally Spies got away with it. So really it's about choosing your audience. It works really well if aimed at tweens.

EDIT: Of course that's kind of a "it can't damage the quality of the work if the work didn't have any quality to begin with" situation.

[DataNinja]

It's also just been getting further and further away from the comic that I started reading, with no signs that it's ever going to get back to that — or even that the intro is even compatible with the reality in which the comic exists now. I mean, when was the last time any of the characters (other than Sydney) from the first strips even appeared? I signed up for a comic about a geek girl who runs a comic store and plays superhero RPGs with her ordinary friends and deals with regular relationship problems even though she's an actual superhero herself, not one where we haven't even seen the inside of the comic store in, I dunno, years? and she's banging furries from outer space and getting date raped by succubi.

Yeah, it definitely feels like the superheroics are... incidental, and the scope of the world just keeps ballooning more and more. Both literally (we're up to other planets being trivial to visit), and just conceptually - with aliens, and demons, and supernaturals (remember when those were a thing? How long has it been?), and it feels like there's not really a solid plan. Just skipping from concept to concept long enough for people to go "ooh, look at how cool this setting piece is, very clever"

[AvatarVecna]

Yeah, it definitely feels like the superheroics are... incidental, and the scope of the world just keeps ballooning more and more. Both literally (we're up to other planets being trivial to visit), and just conceptually - with aliens, and demons, and supernaturals (remember when those were a thing? How long has it been?), and it feels like there's not really a solid plan. Just skipping from concept to concept long enough for people to go "ooh, look at how cool this setting piece is, very clever"

This time next year, there will be about as many pages of Grrl Power as OotS.

[Dragonus45]

Gee, heaven forbid the comic about a world of inexplicably perfect-bodied superheroes and superheroines be an author's personal fantasy of some description. Good lord, people.

Listen, I love beefcake, and I adore cheesecake, and Dave draws it well and has some very fun and action packed Super Hero comic ideas to go with them. I've been happy to be in Dave's corner for quite a lot of this story because he was always up front this was a sexy fanservice comic first and foremost and everything else was secondary. But the comic is creaking under the strain of Dave trying to add more drama and plot and interestingly realistic takes on supers in alongside the sexy fanservice shenanigans with all the deftness and grace of a particularly drunk Canadian Goose and as a result lines are being crossed here now from his response to the criticism Dave just doesn't even seem go grasp why. Because Dabbler is much more of a mouthpiece for his ideas than has been immediately apparent.

[Sean Mirrsen]

New strip.

..not one where we haven't even seen the inside of the comic store in, I dunno, years?

[Rydiro]

Ah, now Parfait is stealing from the populace their personal magic ability/life force.
And Sydney is helping, cause thats obviously moral.
Man, where are these Ideas coming from?

[AvatarVecna]

Ah, now Parfait is stealing from the populace their personal magic ability/life force.
And Sydney is helping, cause thats obviously moral.
Man, where are these Ideas coming from?

It also just skips over the awkward conversation where they have to get Sydney on-board with hiring Parfait. Regardless of Parfait's intentions, Sydney just got to at least second base for a team she doesn't pitch for in a game she wasn't allowed to opt out of playing. But like, let's ignore that part, as well as the "Just What I Needed" aura thing, and presume that Sydney is actually genuinely fine and won't have any lingering bad feelings from working with someone who forcibly reached second base with her. All of what happened between Sydney and Parfait is water under the bridge. It was a complete accident and nobody got hurt...but you realize that's worse, from a business owner's perspective?

"Hey man my friend's looking for a job, think we can squeeze him in?"

"Well I mean it's minimum wage so minimum standards. As long as he's not like completely awful we can give him a shot I guess. Anything I should know about?"

"Well he uh...kinda mildly sexually assaulted someone? But it only got to second base before he realized they'd said no, so that's something?"

"...that's...I mean that's pretty bad but I guess it's not as bad as it could've been. So he's served his time and gotten his act together and you're helping him back on his feet?"

"Actually no, this happened last week and he didn't really face any legal repercussions cuz the girl is his friend and didn't wanna put him through all that."

"...can you at least promise me he's not gonna assault any customers on the job?"

"...well uh...that's the other thing. It was actually a purely biological reaction. He literally couldn't control himself or stop himself when she asked. He just got a bit too horny and started trying to get into her pants. She had to lick his eyeball to get him to pause for a second." [nervous laughter]

"..."

"In fact, he's actually wanting a job to help him learn some self-control. He expects it'll take just a few decades before he's able to fully resist those urges without outside intervention."

EDIT: Like obviously none of this will happen in the comic cuz Dave's made his views of this whole situation clear, but in reality? This hiring decision is a lawsuit waiting to happen, hiring on someone that's incapable of self-control when it comes to sex stuff. And all of that is just based on a normal human person. Not a person with sex-based magic powers. Not a person who's measuring stick for "got too horny" can't be triggered by just thinking about collars for a few minutes. Not a person who accidentally assaults someone when they get too horny, but actually puts out a lust aura causing anyone in a huge vicinity to also get busy. God forbid there be any kids at this comic book store when some neckbeard commits the crime of "asking an out-and-proud succubus what succubi are like" and accidentally wanders down the SA branch of that conversation tree.

(And all that's ignoring how their answer to "how will we keep Parfait fed and sated" is apparently "the way that involves the least amount of 'getting permission beforehand', of course". Like, they seriously couldn't put out an ad, be it on the discreet supernatural communication thing from awhile back, or even just on Craigslist? "Cute succubus needs sex energy to get home, for a good time call XXX-XXXX" involved too much consent I guess, we had to find a way to crank up the number of people who didn't sign on board for this ****.)

[Sean Mirrsen]

And here I thought the blunder-ridden dialogue would remind you people that neither "demon" nor "succubus" are things the public at large is officially aware of yet, but apparently not. Go figure.

[JeenLeen]

While I can't defend much for having internal consistency or realistic reactions:

And here I thought the blunder-ridden dialogue would remind you people that neither "demon" nor "succubus" are things the public at large is officially aware of yet, but apparently not. Go figure.

While they tried to keep it under wraps, I think the army of demons helping Deus' country expand in Africa has made it public.

Not meaning that mean/sarcastic. Maybe they did try to explain it away, but I think it got out.

On the other hand, a demon working in a super's store... that's a really bad look, and Adriana would likely be having a fit if she knew.

[AvatarVecna]

And here I thought the blunder-ridden dialogue would remind you people that neither "demon" nor "succubus" are things the public at large is officially aware of yet, but apparently not. Go figure.

To quote Deus "I'm smarter than everyone in this thread combined" Superion:

Not officially, but she's admitted she isn't human, and now that everyone knows that demons are a real thing, online speculation didn't exactly have a high hurdle to clear to come to that conclusion.

EDIT: So I suppose your post is technically correct but only because you used the word "officially".

Anyway, the online speculation/public opinion is convinced well enough that demons are real and Dabbler is a succubus such that a senator feels it would be bad optics to meet with her. All the supernatural stuff is still a secret because intact Veil, but canonically in the words of the smartest dude in the world, the existence of demons in general and succubi in specific is an open secret at this point.

[Sean Mirrsen]

While I can't defend much for having internal consistency or realistic reactions:



While they tried to keep it under wraps, I think the army of demons helping Deus' country expand in Africa has made it public.

Not meaning that mean/sarcastic. Maybe they did try to explain it away, but I think it got out.

On the other hand, a demon working in a super's store... that's a really bad look, and Adriana would likely be having a fit if she knew.

I think so far it was limited to news coverage, thus Parfait saying that demons aren't "officially" public knowledge yet. As far as the public knows, Dabbler for instance is an alien (and if you think a demon working in a super's store is bad, how about a demon working for the government hero team?). Magic, in the conventional sense, is not officially recognized I think - just superpowers. So if the government wants to keep the demons under wraps, they can just call them an "alien army" - functionally, apart from magic being a conceptually different force, there is no outward difference.

Honestly, I think the biggest plot hole in this bit is probably The Veil. It works for demons and aliens, so even if you explain away the visible demon army and alien incursions as The Veil not being sufficiently powerful to handle it, and explain Parfait's demon-y appearance in public with inexperience, there's still no reason for her to be out in the open without a disguise on.

[AvatarVecna]

I think so far it was limited to news coverage, thus Parfait saying that demons aren't "officially" public knowledge yet. As far as the public knows, Dabbler for instance is an alien (and if you think a demon working in a super's store is bad, how about a demon working for the government hero team?). Magic, in the conventional sense, is not officially recognized I think - just superpowers. So if the government wants to keep the demons under wraps, they can just call them an "alien army" - functionally, apart from magic being a conceptually different force, there is no outward difference.

Honestly, I think the biggest plot hole in this bit is probably The Veil. It works for demons and aliens, so even if you explain away the visible demon army and alien incursions as The Veil not being sufficiently powerful to handle it, and explain Parfait's demon-y appearance in public with inexperience, there's still no reason for her to be out in the open without a disguise on.

Addressed the first part in previous post. As for the second...I'd have to go back and read up on how exactly the Veil works in regards to supernaturals, but I'm fairly certain it never covered aliens? Like that's not super-relevant to Parfait specifically since she's not even part-alien like Dabbler I don't think, so she should be covered as much as any other succubus is by the Veil. But I'm pretty sure the Veil has never protected aliens cuz they weren't part of the supernatural council that put it together however long ago. Aliens kept on the down-low via high-tech nonsense and intergalactic agreements to not go doing open-xeno stuff on planets like Earth.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Addressed the first part in previous post. As for the second...I'd have to go back and read up on how exactly the Veil works in regards to supernaturals, but I'm fairly certain it never covered aliens? Like that's not super-relevant to Parfait specifically since she's not even part-alien like Dabbler I don't think, so she should be covered as much as any other succubus is by the Veil. But I'm pretty sure the Veil has never protected aliens cuz they weren't part of the supernatural council that put it together however long ago. Aliens kept on the down-low via high-tech nonsense and intergalactic agreements to not go doing open-xeno stuff on planets like Earth.

No, aliens were explicitly part of the Veil since a long time ago. Earth is specifically a popular place for random alien tourism because it has a disguise layer built in, and you don't need to bother with your own. As per the explanation here: Strip #461

It's supposed to work by groups, demons included (Tamatha, the young succubus at the bar, had been hiding her wings and tail until she was told that the Veil takes care of that), and as far as we know it's an automatic "supernatural censor" for all humans that don't have special exemption or Veil-denying powers like Sydney does.

[AvatarVecna]

No, aliens were explicitly part of the Veil since a long time ago. Earth is specifically a popular place for random alien tourism because it has a disguise layer built in, and you don't need to bother with your own. As per the explanation here: Strip #461

It's supposed to work by groups, demons included (Tamatha, the young succubus at the bar, had been hiding her wings and tail until she was told that the Veil takes care of that), and as far as we know it's an automatic "supernatural censor" for all humans that don't have special exemption or Veil-denying powers like Sydney does.

That's fair enough. Altho I assume since the press conference where aliens were revealed, they were removed from the Veil, otherwise the arc where the dude that sleazes out Dabbler showed up with a shipful of alien tourists doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Traab]

Ah, now Parfait is stealing from the populace their personal magic ability/life force.
And Sydney is helping, cause thats obviously moral.
Man, where are these Ideas coming from?

Im pretty sure this is basically her hoovering up what people naturally shed off and dont use. Like that one image way back of a succu-nun basically sitting by the wall of a brothel and absorbing the horny energy being unleashed by the participants because they literally have no use for that nor awareness that its even a thing that exists. Look, I get it, you hate the whole concept of daves succubus execution and hate parfait in particular, but there is no reason to constantly keep jumping on the worst possible explanation so you have even more excuse to rant about it. She is hanging out "helping" at the store today to jiggle her bits enough so the customers produce the energy she needs without hurting them in any way so she can go back to Tom. There is no moral quagmire here.

[Yuki Akuma]

Addressed the first part in previous post. As for the second...I'd have to go back and read up on how exactly the Veil works in regards to supernaturals, but I'm fairly certain it never covered aliens? Like that's not super-relevant to Parfait specifically since she's not even part-alien like Dabbler I don't think, so she should be covered as much as any other succubus is by the Veil. But I'm pretty sure the Veil has never protected aliens cuz they weren't part of the supernatural council that put it together however long ago. Aliens kept on the down-low via high-tech nonsense and intergalactic agreements to not go doing open-xeno stuff on planets like Earth.

Succubi are aliens. All demons are aliens in Grrl Power. They are not from an alternate plane of existence, they are from a different planet.

[AvatarVecna]

Succubi are aliens. All demons are aliens in Grrl Power. They are not from an alternate plane of existence, they are from a different planet.

Do you have a quote on that, because my recollection is that demons are very specifically from other dimensions. And also, a bit more relevant to this discussion, that succubi aren't demons as much as extremely-advanced magical constructs. Dabbler herself is part-alien because she has a jigsaw puzzle backstory/skillset, but I'm fairly certain that's a dabbler-specific thing, not a general thing for demons or succubi.

EDIT: Also also, if demons/succubi are aliens, then that means their existence has already been revealed to the wider populace (broadly speaking), so the original comment I was responding that said demons/succubi weren't public yet was incorrect.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Succubi are aliens. All demons are aliens in Grrl Power. They are not from an alternate plane of existence, they are from a different planet.

No, that part is not true. Demons are specifically extraplanar, not merely extraterrestrial. Dabbler was drawing up a whole 4D venn diagram on the nature of magic, and how demons, devils, and angels and whatnot, are connected to it, back during the demon hunter incident.

[Yuki Akuma]

No, that part is not true. Demons are specifically extraplanar, not merely extraterrestrial. Dabbler was drawing up a whole 4D venn diagram on the nature of magic, and how demons, devils, and angels and whatnot, are connected to it, back during the demon hunter incident.

Yes, when she was describing how demons work to my patreon cameo, she said there were infernal beings from an alternate layer of reality that demons made contact with in the past. Not that demons were those infernal beings from an alternate layer of reality.

Please read the commentary under this page. Specifically, the third paragraph. The one that mentions demons are aliens who live on other planets, and are not literally from Hell.

I'm going to keep this page bookmarked from now on.

[Yuki Akuma]

Oh hey, this is a much better page to keep bookmarked!

Man I wish Sydney's comic shop was a real place. It would be amazing to visit and see all the stuff I can't reasonably afford but really, really want to buy.

[lord_khaine]

I liked the back and forth between Ingsol and Deus.
While Ingsols attempt at intimidation failed, he did cut pretty effectively through Deus's BS regarding Vale's nature.

Else. Nice side-by-side comparison of just how absurdly huge Deus is at panel 5.
I assume Ignsol is a tiny bit below average size. Being 700 years old and all.
But with that physique Deus should still draw more suspicion for being a Super.

Also a decent bit of world building in the author comment.
Touching upon the Alari and vampires. Seems Sciona was -really- exceptional.
And that already at 'just' 100 years of age, vampires are a pretty big deal when not compared to supers.

[Rydiro]

Im pretty sure this is basically her hoovering up what people naturally shed off and dont use. Like that one image way back of a succu-nun basically sitting by the wall of a brothel and absorbing the horny energy being unleashed by the participants because they literally have no use for that nor awareness that its even a thing that exists. Look, I get it, you hate the whole concept of daves succubus execution and hate parfait in particular, but there is no reason to constantly keep jumping on the worst possible explanation so you have even more excuse to rant about it. She is hanging out "helping" at the store today to jiggle her bits enough so the customers produce the energy she needs without hurting them in any way so she can go back to Tom. There is no moral quagmire here.

I guess I was just a bit confused by how OP succubi actually are. In no other game system I know can you convert other peoples waste/spare mana into your new max mana. This is actually super broken and would imply that succubi just naturally grow huge mana pools from a young age. I mean, if her master wouldn't tax her, Parfait would overtake her master, an established archfiend, who is also fed by Dabbler, within two years.
Probably Dave didn't think about these consequences and wrote whatever sounds cool.