OOTS #1299 - The Discussion Thread

[brian 333]

On I-10 West, just across the Sabine River from Louisiana is a sign that says, "El Paso 893 Miles."

The same highway goes through Beaumont, Houston, San Antonio, and 400 miles of desert with six gas stations before you get to El Paso, and there is nothing about that on the sign.

It's like that game on Star Trek where, every time you stop someone is saying, "Move along, move along home!"

Y'all should come to Louisiana. We'll feed you. Sure, it might be something you never thought sbout eating before, (or ever thought of as food,) but it'll be good and we'll get you drunk afterward.

[Mordar]

From the locals? Oh my, no. It was the signs, my friend. The signs!

We drive in from New Mexico (which really is a land of enchantment, just gorgeous landscapes. Unlike Arizona, which had nothing. Glad they got the Grand Canyon because they got shafted otherwise).

I...you...what?!? I'm sorry, until this moment I hadn't realized you had, at some point in time, been assaulted by deranged space aliens and had your aesthetic discrimination engine replaced with a pile of rotted banana peels. Too bad, because at times you seemed relatively copasetic.

Well, if I ever catch those aliens I'll get your landscape appreciation back for you.

Not to besmirch New Mexico. Some bits are quite nice. It's like if Arizona had a plainer, much less attractive younger cousin that sometimes has nice hair.

On I-10 West, just across the Sabine River from Louisiana is a sign that says, "El Paso 893 Miles."

The same highway goes through Beaumont, Houston, San Antonio, and 400 miles of desert with six gas stations before you get to El Paso, and there is nothing about that on the sign.

It's like that game on Star Trek where, every time you stop someone is saying, "Move along, move along home!"

Y'all should come to Louisiana. We'll feed you. Sure, it might be something you never thought sbout eating before, (or ever thought of as food,) but it'll be good and we'll get you drunk afterward.

Without a great deal of fine understanding, I believe I much prefer Cajun to Creole...but I think that is typical of my palate (rustic > fancy). Sadly not a huge sea food fan (fried notwithstanding), so lean heavily on the andouille and boudin. But I guess I like fancy desserts and pastries...

- M

[gbaji]

From the locals? Oh my, no. It was the signs, my friend. The signs!

We drive in from New Mexico (which really is a land of enchantment, just gorgeous landscapes. Unlike Arizona, which had nothing. Glad they got the Grand Canyon because they got shafted otherwise). Going across the top hat, so not much time spent in the state. We get in, and the very first billboard has, in enormous letters, "Welcome to Texas. YOU'RE NOW A FELON". Yeah, i realize it was about edibles vis a vis NM, but still, that's a hell of a welcome. Next sign, a couple minutes in, was for the Texas Welcome Center. 173 miles. Fun fact, I-40 through Texas is only 177 miles. The welcome center was on the way out! Welcome to Texas, now leave! But that's nothing compared to the homegrown business. Buc-ee's famously ha billboards far from rhe actual location. We're in Texas, home of Buc-ee's! How far could it possible be? The billboard helpfully told us. A hundred miles? Two hundred? Four? Oh my sweet idealistic reader, the billboard simply read "Buc-ee's 1,092 miles". ELEVEN HUNDRED MILES! We actually saw it the next night, going from the southwest corner to the northeast corner, the worst possible way to cross the state. Not only was thus Buc-ee's in Tennessee, it was on the farthest corner of Tennessee it could have been! Texas not only said "if you want our gas station, go to Tennessee", they also engineered it so there was a damned mountain range between us and Texas! How petty can you be?

But, like i said, it was good for a lot of laughs. And also, i kind of loved that drive, because the vast, vast majority of it was just massive windfarms, as far as the eye could see. Even farther, really. Disappearing into the fog miles off. Really neat visual. And most importantly, always remember: welcome to Texas, you're now a felon.

You're in Texas. Driving down a straight highway on endless flat land. If not for the billboards, there would be nothing to see (ok, windmills and cows excepted).

How many billboards in other states do you remember with this much detail?

And for the record. Both Arizona and New Mexico are pretty much "those two states you drive through between California and Texas". Though, to be fair, so much of Texas is *also* "that part of Texas you drive through to get to the good parts of Texas", so there's that too.

[Mordar]

You're in Texas. Driving down a straight highway on endless flat land. If not for the billboards, there would be nothing to see (ok, windmills and cows excepted).

How many billboards in other states do you remember with this much detail?

And for the record. Both Arizona and New Mexico are pretty much "those two states you drive through between California and Texas". Though, to be fair, so much of Texas is *also* "that part of Texas you drive through to get to the good parts of Texas", so there's that too.

Billboards are a lost art form...though probably for the good, given how they are rampant in some areas. South Dakota had a great array of billboards in the 70s, and I think the South was generally considered well-boarded.

I will grant the I-10 corridor once past Tucson is less appealing than other areas...but that means you're going to LA and thus you're already going to California wrong.

No, wait...I mean "right". Everyone should only go to LA, and should only travel by road on I-10, if they should ever go to California. The rest of the state is not to be seen.

- M

[gbaji]

No, wait...I mean "right". Everyone should only go to LA, and should only travel by road on I-10, if they should ever go to California. The rest of the state is not to be seen.

But that's not... Oh! Wait! Er... Yes.... [jedi]You will come to California. You will go to LA. See the sights. That's all there is to see. Now go home...[/jedi]

[DavidSh]

Billboards are a lost art form...though probably for the good, given how they are rampant in some areas. South Dakota had a great array of billboards in the 70s, and I think the South was generally considered well-boarded.

"had"? Are you talking about Wall Drug? And are those signs no longer there? Free ice water a thing of the past?

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Burma Shave?

[Peelee]

I...you...what?!? I'm sorry, until this moment I hadn't realized you had, at some point in time, been assaulted by deranged space aliens and had your aesthetic discrimination engine replaced with a pile of rotted banana peels. Too bad, because at times you seemed relatively copasetic.

Well, if I ever catch those aliens I'll get your landscape appreciation back for you.

Not to besmirch New Mexico. Some bits are quite nice. It's like if Arizona had a plainer, much less attractive younger cousin that sometimes has nice hair.

Not along I-40 it ain't.

Everyone should only go to LA

It's difficult to overstate how much I loved San Diego. LA was pretty alright until we tried to leave, at which point, i feel like my thoughts on LA are forever "**** LA".

My friend (who has driven Atlanta, NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Diego, and has survived several months as a passenger in India), driving us out of LA: "This isn't as bad as i expected, it's about on par with Atlanta traffic except without the unchecked aggression."

Same friend, four hours after leaving any semblance of civilization with only barren desert for miles and miles and miles and miles: "AT LEAST ATLANTA TRAFFIC ENDS! Sure, you may have a bloody nose and broken ribs getting through it, but it ends at a certain point! The suburbs i understand, even unchecked suburban sprawl, but there's been nothing for hours! Where is everyone going?!?"


Back at home in Alabama, I'm still not entirely sure that I've escaped LA traffic. LA traffic is a testament to the hubris of mankind, and is an affront to the gods themselves. Escape from LA would be a documentary if it wasn't for the pure fantasy of the concept. There is no escape from LA. Freedom is an illusion. All is Los Angeles traffic.


Be cool to return to Sam Diego, though.

[Mordar]

"had"? Are you talking about Wall Drug? And are those signs no longer there? Free ice water a thing of the past?

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Burma Shave?

It has been a while (2016) since last I drove that area, and there were still a few but not as many as I remembered from late 70s/early 80s.

Not along I-40 it ain't.

Is that like saying that the view from my root cellar is terrible? Even I40 has the Flag corridor with the San Francisco Mountains and some very pleasant forest.

It's difficult to overstate how much I loved San Diego. LA was pretty alright until we tried to leave, at which point, i feel like my thoughts on LA are forever "**** LA".

My friend (who has driven Atlanta, NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Diego, and has survived several months as a passenger in India), driving us out of LA: "This isn't as bad as i expected, it's about on par with Atlanta traffic except without the unchecked aggression."

Same friend, four hours after leaving any semblance of civilization with only barren desert for miles and miles and miles and miles: "AT LEAST ATLANTA TRAFFIC ENDS! Sure, you may have a bloody nose and broken ribs getting through it, but it ends at a certain point! The suburbs i understand, even unchecked suburban sprawl, but there's been nothing for hours! Where is everyone going?!?"

Back at home in Alabama, I'm still not entirely sure that I've escaped LA traffic. LA traffic is a testament to the hubris of mankind, and is an affront to the gods themselves. Escape from LA would be a documentary if it wasn't for the pure fantasy of the concept. There is no escape from LA. Freedom is an illusion. All is Los Angeles traffic.

Be cool to return to Sam Diego, though.

San Diego is perhaps the most terrible place on the face of the planet. Going there is more painful than passing a kidney stone...through the pupil of your eye. Everything costs jillions, all of the people are mean and ugly inside-and-out, and the constant monotony of the weather is only worsened by the absolute lack of anything to do. So stay away.

Yeah, I remember driving out of LA once to return to I-10 home, and I swear it was even on a Sunday. Took something like 6 hours to get to free-flowing traffic from the Getty. While my international driving experience is limited, in the US I do not believe there is anywhere that is so typically bad as LA (considering volume, number of people that must travel via car, distance, etc). Other places may have higher intensity pain, but for a shorter duration.

- M

[brian 333]

...Be cool to return to Sam Diego, though.

Loved going East over the mountains. You go uphill for an hour then downhill all day. You can see as far as the dust will let you, and that thing you see in the distance takes a day to get to.

Awesome drive.

Watch out for Navy fighter jets hitting you with sonic booms. I think they think it's funny.

[gbaji]

Loved going East over the mountains. You go uphill for an hour then downhill all day. You can see as far as the dust will let you, and that thing you see in the distance takes a day to get to.

Yup. Coastal roads are pretty awesome as well. Used to work in an office in La Jolla (literally right between the point where I5 and I805 merge). The fast route home would be to get on the I5, head north one exit and get off. But if traffic was backed up (which it did, cause two major freeways merge just north of there), I would kinda stay left and pass the northbound onramp traffic, then stay right and avoid the southbound folks, head north onto Torrey Pines road, and then get "stuck in rushhour traffic" along this terribly awful stretch of road.

As you head from south to north on that road (coming down the hill in the background towards the foreground), the road narrows down to a single lane each way while going over the bridge between the beach and the wetlands, so it backs up. Which means you get to sit there, in traffic, watching the sun set over the ocean. Yup. Horrible!

Watch out for Navy fighter jets hitting you with sonic booms. I think they think it's funny.

Yes. They do. Singing "Hiiiiiiighway to the dangerzone!" the whole time (at least that's my assumption).

[dmc91356]

Hate to break it to y'all Socal traffic haters, but Nocal traffic is worse in so many different ways that it boggles the mind. And this is from a guy who used to wake up at 4:30 a.m. to be at the gym at 5:00 to avoid the 45 minute commute that going over the hill to Westwood would entail. This, of course, was before I became rational and left my firm to start on my own a very civilized 6 minute commute away.

Anyway, when I used to fly up to the Bay Area for different court appearances, the traffic getting anywhere up there was so astronomically terrible that it made me long for normal horrible LA traffic.

San Diego is fine, but La Jolla is magical.

[Peelee]

Is that like saying that the view from my root cellar is terrible? Even I40 has the Flag corridor with the San Francisco Mountains and some very pleasant forest.

Agreeing its trash only to say the trash is pleasant is an ofd stance. The trash was not pleasant. Arizona along I-40 was rubbish, while New Mexico on the same stretch was very pretty. Also, the road quality was noticeably better in NM than AZ to boot.

San Diego is perhaps the most terrible place on the face of the planet.

See, now i just can't trust anything you say about the west coast.

Yes. They do. Singing "Hiiiiiiighway to the dangerzone!" the whole time (at least that's my assumption).

We had a truck, not a plane, but when my friend approached me with the idea, i did ask him a question that might affect our friendship if i agreed - on a scale of 1-10, how annoyed would he be if i belted out "Eeeeeeeastbound and down, loaded up and trucking, we're going to do what they say can't be done" when we started.

Long story short, we played that at least once a day. And while we missed Texarkana, we did make sure to pick up some Coors as close as we could.

Hate to break it to y'all Socal traffic haters, but Nocal traffic is worse in so many different ways that it boggles the mind.

I was gonna snark about "sure but who goes to Nocal" but you said San Diego was alright so I'm gonma hold my fire.

[Rollin]

Same friend, four hours after leaving any semblance of civilization with only barren desert for miles and miles and miles and miles: "AT LEAST ATLANTA TRAFFIC ENDS! Sure, you may have a bloody nose and broken ribs getting through it, but it ends at a certain point! The suburbs i understand, even unchecked suburban sprawl, but there's been nothing for hours! Where is everyone going?!?"

Vegas. They were going to Vegas.

[Peelee]

Vegas. They were going to Vegas.

Imean, yeah, we both figured that pretty much immediately, but the lamentations were us amusing ourselves. We were in nese gridlock four hours into the desert, gotta keep the sanity somehow.

Also, friend vetoed my proposal to also go to Vegas.

[DavidSh]

Vegas. They were going to Vegas.

Imean, yeah, we both figured that pretty much immediately, but the lamentations were us amusing ourselves. We were in nese gridlock four hours into the desert, gotta keep the sanity somehow.

I guess that explains why Brightline, the company that operates passenger trains in Florida between Orlando and Miami, is starting construction on a new rail line to Las Vegas. Even if it only starts from Rancho Cucamonga. I hope to see it taking up some of that traffic before the decade is out.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's difficult to overstate how much I loved San Diego. LA was pretty alright until we tried to leave, at which point, i feel like my thoughts on LA are forever "**** LA".

Yep. Randy Newman's "I Love LA" was one of his worst songs, if not his worst song.

Be cool to return to Sam Diego, though.

Or his cousin, Sal Diego.

Watch out for Navy fighter jets hitting you with sonic booms. I think they think it's funny.

Nope. The year is 2024.

Yes. They do. Singing "Hiiiiiiighway to the dangerzone!" the whole time (at least that's my assumption).

Nope.

Hate to break it to y'all Socal traffic haters, but Nocal traffic is worse in so many different ways that it boggles the mind.

If I may slightly misquote The Witcher: the lesser of two evil traffic situations is still evil.

San Diego is fine, but La Jolla is magical.

Truth.

Also, friend vetoed my proposal to also go to Vegas.

And therefore not a friend, amigo.

Full disclosure: both of my kids were born in San Diego, so I have some good memories there. But I am glad we left when we did, except I miss the golf.

[bunsen_h]

Y'all should come to Louisiana. We'll feed you. Sure, it might be something you never thought sbout eating before, (or ever thought of as food,) but it'll be good and we'll get you drunk afterward.

About 30 years ago, I was sent by my employer to a trade show in New Orleans. After a day of travel, a mediocre night's sleep, and a grueling day of setting up our booth (no time for lunch!), I was inclined to just go to the Wendy's a block or so away from the hotel for a cheeze-stuffed baked potato. Quick, easy, comfortable, and bordering on nutritious. But my colleagues insisted on going to a restaurant for "real food". To my utter lack of surprise, we couldn't find a place that did anything like a satisfying vegetarian meal, by which I mean "had protein and calories". Ultimately, I had a supper of overcooked veggies... basically, a regular menu item with the meat/fish left out. (Following that with a midnight meeting, a "pep talk" from the boss in which he told us that he didn't actually want to sell any copies of the software we'd been slaving over for months to have ready for that trade show, was the pièce de résistance.)

Maybe things are different now, but at the time, it wasn't the place to go if one's dietary restrictions didn't allow for bits-o-critter. A couple of days into the show, I met up with some local folks I counted as friends from on-line conversations, and they managed to find a restaurant that did a passable vegetarian dish. But in general, I didn't do well for food on that trip.

[danielxcutter]

On I-10 West, just across the Sabine River from Louisiana is a sign that says, "El Paso 893 Miles."

The same highway goes through Beaumont, Houston, San Antonio, and 400 miles of desert with six gas stations before you get to El Paso, and there is nothing about that on the sign.

It's like that game on Star Trek where, every time you stop someone is saying, "Move along, move along home!"

Y'all should come to Louisiana. We'll feed you. Sure, it might be something you never thought sbout eating before, (or ever thought of as food,) but it'll be good and we'll get you drunk afterward.

I had crocodile once when we were visiting my aunt in Vietnam. Wasn’t great but wasn’t that bad, though the sauce wasn’t really my thing.

[KorvinStarmast]

About 30 years ago, I was sent by my employer to a trade show in New Orleans. After a day of travel, a mediocre night's sleep, and a grueling day of setting up our booth (no time for lunch!), I was inclined to just go to the Wendy's a block or so away from the hotel for a cheeze-stuffed baked potato. Quick, easy, comfortable, and bordering on nutritious. But my colleagues insisted on going to a restaurant for "real food". To my utter lack of surprise, we couldn't find a place that did anything like a satisfying vegetarian meal, by which I mean "had protein and calories". Ultimately, I had a supper of overcooked veggies... basically, a regular menu item with the meat/fish left out. (Following that with a midnight meeting, a "pep talk" from the boss in which he told us that he didn't actually want to sell any copies of the software we'd been slaving over for months to have ready for that trade show, was the pièce de résistance.)

Baked potato as a side, loaded (no bacon) is a filling meal. Too bad the place you went could not handle it.

Red beans and rice: a southern staple, but maybe they considered it too low brow in New Orleans?

Sorry it didn't work out. I have with some frequency, now that I am older and don't eat so much, ordered a baked potato as my meal (loaded) and been most satisfied. Or I'll order my wife the steak and I'll just eat her tater. Saves a bit of money and we end up eating all of the food. (We usually split the asparagus).

[gbaji]

Hate to break it to y'all Socal traffic haters, but Nocal traffic is worse in so many different ways that it boggles the mind. And this is from a guy who used to wake up at 4:30 a.m. to be at the gym at 5:00 to avoid the 45 minute commute that going over the hill to Westwood would entail. This, of course, was before I became rational and left my firm to start on my own a very civilized 6 minute commute away.

Yeah. That's in/around SF. What makes the traffic good or bad is based on how well the local planners actually implemented their freeway system ahead of traffic expecations. Both LA and SF have done poor jobs in that regard, with freeways that run in bewildering (and often unuseful) directions, and traffic just way outpacing construction.

Outside of those two areas though (and by SF, I'm kinda including the entire bay area, and LA highway nonsense extends east quite a bit as well), California generally has a very well designed and thought out freeway system, mostly due to most cities/towns having actually grown mostly with cars and highways as part of the consideration (which is true of most areas out west, though that does not explain the adoption of the east coast style "circular highway with spokes" design around Phoenix, but then Arizona is just strange that way. They also put roundabouts in places that just have no business having them, kinda "just because we wanted to").

San Diego is fine, but La Jolla is magical.

For driving? La Jolla shores is great, since you just go in, turn north along the coast, and park somewhere along the beach there (or visit other areas), and actually loops back out to the north (up the hill and then onto the Torrey Pines road I was talking about earlier, then past the golf courses and hospitals/UCSD area, then back down to the beach and into Del Mar as you go north). Actually getting into downtown La Jolla proper is a pain IMO. The road in goes past the route into the Shores, then goes west and then south along the coastline. There's more or less one way in and one way out though, so traffic can be "really bad", depending on time of day.

But yeah. Once you are there, it's this quaint village kind of area, with a main street, shops, houses up on the hills in one direction, ocean in the other, etc. Honestly though, you get a similar feel in Del Mar, or Solana Beach, but with much less travel from the I5, and less traffic/time to get there (the ocean view is arguably better in La Jolla though, since the whole thing is kind of a promontory).

Vegas. They were going to Vegas.

And depending on day and time, traffic is just nasty all the way to Vegas. The I15 and I40 diverge in Barstow, and usually I40 is relatively calm. But until you get there you are in that tangle of "highway system extending east from LA", which is a nightmare of different highways going this way and that, and intersecting in odd and dumb ways, forcing drivers to zig zag around, depending on where they are actually going. Traffic from/to LA and Riverside/San Bernadino (and surrounding areas), and folks travelling through from parts south, or east, or north, all kinda converge in that area. And the I15 itself can turn into a 200+ mile long line of slow moving cars between Barstow and Vegas depending on traffic and accidents.

You *never* (like never ever, maybe not even if your life depends on it), want to go through there on a Friday or a Sunday (afternoon specifically, and when I say "afternoon" I literally mean "any time that is after Noon"). And, of course, any weekday in the late afternoon to evening is a nightmare (silly numbers of people commute from/to work through there). We used to do weekend trips in Vegas, and learned that it actually works better to adust your schedule a day forward or back (if you can). So head out Thursday morning (early to miss the morning rush hour through Riverside, and also the evening rush hour in Vegas, an hour or so too late, and you'll hit both), and come back Saturday. Alternatively, drive up Saturday morning and come back Monday (again, just make sure you aren't going through Riverside after about 3 in the afternoon though).

The rookie mistake is driving out Friday and coming back Sunday. All day, both days, suck, because that's when everyone else has decided to take the same drive.

Oh. Someone mentioned rail? Yeah. I'll believe that when I see it. They have literally been talking about a high speed passenger rail along that route since at least the mid 80s (when I first started noticing or caring). I would love that to exist. And you'd think it would be a no-brainer thing to build. But apparnetly, just not so easily done though.


Also... Red beans and Rice is great food. Just saying.

[brian 333]

Red Beans and Rice almost universally has meat in it. Smoked sausage, ham, smoked meats of various kinds, etc. It can be made meatless, but so far as I know, nobody in New Orleans does that.

[Mordar]

San Diego is fine, but La Jolla is magical.

I can certainly understand the spirit of the statement, and La Jolla is a 100% visit every time we're over there...but I think this kind of does a disservice to other parts of town.

Agreeing its trash only to say the trash is pleasant is an ofd stance. The trash was not pleasant. Arizona along I-40 was rubbish, while New Mexico on the same stretch was very pretty. Also, the road quality was noticeably better in NM than AZ to boot.

See, now i just can't trust anything you say about the west coast.

It was more meant as indicating it is a weaker spot, but even the root cellar is really nice. But if you want to pick weak spots, visit Deming. Almost every circle of Hell looks better than that.

Everyone should absolutely trust my opinion on California. See also: Kauai (terrible, horrible place with nothing to do, nothing to see, and the most unfriendly people ever) and northern Minnesota (seen one lake or tree you've seen them all...just stay in Wisconsin). Additional warnings as events warrant. One of my favorite tourist tchotchkes ever was a plaque that said "Love Kauai? Tell your friends to go to Maui." I like to live by that.

For driving? La Jolla shores is great, since you just go in, turn north along the coast, and park somewhere along the beach there (or visit other areas), and actually loops back out to the north (up the hill and then onto the Torrey Pines road I was talking about earlier, then past the golf courses and hospitals/UCSD area, then back down to the beach and into Del Mar as you go north). Actually getting into downtown La Jolla proper is a pain IMO. The road in goes past the route into the Shores, then goes west and then south along the coastline. There's more or less one way in and one way out though, so traffic can be "really bad", depending on time of day.

But yeah. Once you are there, it's this quaint village kind of area, with a main street, shops, houses up on the hills in one direction, ocean in the other, etc. Honestly though, you get a similar feel in Del Mar, or Solana Beach, but with much less travel from the I5, and less traffic/time to get there (the ocean view is arguably better in La Jolla though, since the whole thing is kind of a promontory).

I find all of SD relatively easy to get around (compared to most other places), but maybe familiarity helps.

As mentioned above, I like La Jolla, but don't schooch it as high above other parts of SD as some others might. It does look like some of the advantages La Jolla had have ebbed away though...my favorite window shopping (featuring Porsche and Ferrari) has diminished significantly, and one of the busiest places is now the Goodwill store (for good reasons)...but the galleries are still decent, and the pelicans always make me happy. Haven't been to TP State Park in a while...have they reopened the trails yet?

- M

[gbaji]

I find all of SD relatively easy to get around (compared to most other places), but maybe familiarity helps.

I joke (but not really), that I can drive from anywhere to anywhere in SD county and it'll consistently be a 30 minute drive. People talk about California having terrible traffic, but I really do feel like SD "did it right", when it comes to their freeway system design. I suppose topographic components help out here a bit (but honestly only a bit, since LA *could* have better layout, but just doesn't). SD just lays their highways out in a nice grid(ish) design, which makes it super fast/easy to get from place to place.

The exception is Downtown SD. But I'm 100x more likely to be driving "to/from work" or "to/from a friends house" than "to/from somewhere downtown", so the fact that our highway system isn't set up like a hub with spokes around the busy downtown area (as many city highway systems are laid out) is really nice. Most cities compress all of their stuff in a single central location, but that's just not how it's set up in SD. I mean, we have that (ie: downtown), but that's where we let the tourists go. The locals know that there are like 10x as many "places to go" that are not downtown. And our road system is really well set up to make that travel really quick and easy for us. Which is why I like it.

Distributed City/County design. What a concept. City of the future I say! I may be biased though...

[brian 333]

Cities are a cultural relic created by the need for specialized labor and long term food storage, both of which no longer apply.

Specialization of labor, when a day's travel was ten miles, required raw materials to be collected in a single location so that, for example, wool could be cleaned, carded, spun, woven, and dyed, and food for all of the non-food-producers could be stored all in one place. Modern transportation allows much more dispersed manufacturing.

Similarly, bulk food supplies to maintain healthy citizens over winter and through famines have become less necessary since canning, refrigeration, and modern transportation.

So, enjoy your cities. In a few generations they will exist for tourism, art colonists, and those who like to be near lots of other people. (Unless you think it more likely they are used as prisons like in Escape From New York.)

[KorvinStarmast]

Red Beans and Rice almost universally has meat in it. Smoked sausage, ham, smoked meats of various kinds, etc. It can be made meatless, but so far as I know, nobody in New Orleans does that.

That's not my experience. There's a catfish place I go to with some frequency that has red beans with the only other edition being spices. It is usually a side for the catfish, but I really like it and they also serve rice with a few of their dishes. I've had them make me the red beans on rice, and enjoyed it with a nice cold beer.
Great food for Lent when I am not interested in fried catfish.

[Peelee]

Cities are a cultural relic created by the need for specialized labor and long term food storage, both of which no longer apply.

Specialization of labor, when a day's travel was ten miles, required raw materials to be collected in a single location so that, for example, wool could be cleaned, carded, spun, woven, and dyed, and food for all of the non-food-producers could be stored all in one place. Modern transportation allows much more dispersed manufacturing.

Similarly, bulk food supplies to maintain healthy citizens over winter and through famines have become less necessary since canning, refrigeration, and modern transportation.

So, enjoy your cities. In a few generations they will exist for tourism, art colonists, and those who like to be near lots of other people. (Unless you think it more likely they are used as prisons like in Escape From New York.)

Well, it has been a few generations since the 1950s, when all your "fixes" (ie canning, refrigeration, and modern transportation) were cemented as commonplace. And wouldn't you know it, the only reason I really even know what a "city" is anymore is thanks to the history books. Just the other day i was thinking of visiting Historical Williamsburg New York City. I hear the re-enactors they hire are excellent.

[Ruck]

Cities are a cultural relic created by the need for specialized labor and long term food storage, both of which no longer apply.

Specialization of labor, when a day's travel was ten miles, required raw materials to be collected in a single location so that, for example, wool could be cleaned, carded, spun, woven, and dyed, and food for all of the non-food-producers could be stored all in one place. Modern transportation allows much more dispersed manufacturing.

Similarly, bulk food supplies to maintain healthy citizens over winter and through famines have become less necessary since canning, refrigeration, and modern transportation.

So, enjoy your cities. In a few generations they will exist for tourism, art colonists, and those who like to be near lots of other people. (Unless you think it more likely they are used as prisons like in Escape From New York.)

I think you're really overlooking the social and cultural benefits of cities.

[Errorname]

So, enjoy your cities. In a few generations they will exist for tourism, art colonists, and those who like to be near lots of other people. (Unless you think it more likely they are used as prisons like in Escape From New York.)

This is an interesting theory, but not interesting in the good way. I do not think this would hold up to data-based scrutiny, or even anecdote-based scrutiny.

[Peelee]

I think you're really overlooking the social and cultural benefits of cities.

And practical, logistical, geopolitical (which i won't elaborate on for obvious reasons), strategic, and historical benefits. Probably others i cant think of, too.

[Kish]

I mean, I think what brian 33 said could be considered technically accurate now, never mind in a few generations...

...with the note that, of his dismissive list, "those who like to be near lots of other people" means "most people," resulting in the vacuously true statement "cities are only good for the vast majority of people, but people who don't like them don't like them."