OOTS #1301 - The Discussion Thread

[BrotherMirtillo]

"I prepared Explosive Food this morning."

[Tobimaro]

I've never seen a dragon end up with a broken jaw before. But that was one perfect spell casting there.

[Peelee]

I noticed the same thing and had a thought: We still have an unspoken prophecy that Belkar will, in some roundabout way, cause V's death.

No we don't. Belkar said "any", not "all", and it was fulfilled when he killed the Oracle. The Oracle was just teasing Belkar with the exhaustive list.

[Reboot]

Tiny creatures are easier to travel with than Huge ones in say... Aeroships, bags of holding, 10x10 tunnels of a subterranean dungeon...

I think we have found the story reason of this fight. With Bloodfeast polymorph ended our heroes will have a harder time going through the rest of the Final Dungeon.

Well, V does have a polymorph spell.

[Segev]

Is it just me, or does it look like the allosaurus's tail is down the dragon's throat? Choking on your food, indeed!

[Tzardok]

Is it just me, or does it look like the allosaurus's tail is down the dragon's throat? Choking on your food, indeed!

It's clearly between Bloodfeast's legs.

[Frozenstep]

Didn't expect to see a giant bloodfeast again, at least not until Xykon. But now I'm thinking we might not see bloodfeast make it to Xykon...though, hopefully because the party can't bring him around in the tunnels, rather then death...

[Airinyourtires]

I don’t have anything profound to say but that was so freaking cool!!!!

[2.5 cats]

Brilliant double-meaning title!

"Bite Size" an an adjective. As in Bloodfeast was bite size.

"Bite Size" with an implicit comma. As in the dragon went "bite", then (with help from V.) Bloodfeast went "Size!"

[ratfox]

That should be the end of the fight. I think for the purpose of the story, the only reason Calder did not immediately die after swallowing without chewing is so he can still talk afterwards (though likely with a broken jaw).

I see that it's again the right horn that is broken :)

[Adeptus]

I noticed the same thing and had a thought: We still have an unspoken prophecy that Belkar will, in some roundabout way, cause V's death. And V is precariously close to an allosaurus that is about to fall to the ground. What if V dies here, Belkar's involvement being "crushed to death by a dinosaur that was only present because of you"?

Well remembered.

What I'm thinking is that they were all trying to keep their powder dry for a final boss fight with Xykon and Redcloak. Now they are exhausted and wounded after dealing with an ancient red dragon. It's not looking good.

[t209]

Well, this just happened to be coincidence after watching Invincible.

[arimareiji]

Perhaps the greatest sacrifice yet in OotS: V does this, knowing that they're running a huge risk of permanently switching the lump of neurons in Belkar's proto-brain back from Hate to Love/Lust.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html

[drazen]

I noticed the same thing and had a thought: We still have an unspoken prophecy that Belkar will, in some roundabout way, cause V's death. And V is precariously close to an allosaurus that is about to fall to the ground. What if V dies here, Belkar's involvement being "crushed to death by a dinosaur that was only present because of you"?

I have maintained that the logical, dramatic tragedy ending of V's character arc is to permanently lose all spellcasting powers while saving the world (perhaps by destroying the Crimson Mantle arrifact?). This would be the ultimate "death" of the main thing that made V, V. The kobold was getting more absurd and metaphorical with each passing suggestion, so I feel lile this tracks.

Of course, it could also be "As for the elf, the elf kills you" (maybe in the final climactic showdown, like what happened to Kraagor).

[Frogwarrior]

calling it now: bloodfeast will turn out to be MitD's parent (some deity did it with an allosaurus)

[Cryos]

OOOOOH Jaw Wrenched, that's gotta hurt. Not King Kong's version but still effective

[Mic_128]

Oooh, is that a dislocated jaw? I think that's a dislocated jaw. Tell me that's a dislocated jaw! :D

[Unoriginal]

Man, this fight keeps getting better with each page.

Now I'm expecting Calder to go "you are all badly injured and your healers are out of relevant spells, while I can win this fight through sheer attrition if needed", only for the two nearly-full-ressources Paladin to show up.

Brilliant double-meaning title!

"Bite Size" an an adjective. As in Bloodfeast was bite size.

"Bite Size" with an implicit comma. As in the dragon went "bite", then (with help from V.) Bloodfeast went "Size!"

Other meanings:

- "Bite Size" as in, the size of Calder's bite, which is sufficiently big before the Dispel but too small after.

- "Bite Size" with "bite" as the verb and "size" as the noun, as Calder tried to bite something of remarkable size and it didn't turn out well.

[Crusher]

OH MY GOD, THE ALLOSAURUS IS BACK IN THE RING! HE'S ON THE TOP ROPE WITH A STEEL CHAIR!

Calder's in real trouble now. Yes, it takes a LOT of damage to put down an Ancient(-ish) Red Dragon and Calder's done a lot of damage to the Order. But they've been steadily hitting him back and its finally piled up enough that he's starting to really show it. Bloodfeast being back in the fight and able to tank Calder for a couple more rounds is disastrously bad for him. The lady with the horned helmet is warming up her voice.

Edit - I think its 50/50 Bloodfeast dies here (how is he going to navigate the dungeon afterwards?), but the main takeaway is the Order will be in no condition to take on Team Evil after this.

[Provengreil]

Interesting, I seem to have a bit of egg on my face.

Me from another thread:

You're right: they're rarely that simple. And sure enough, effectively getting Bloodfeast into the fray is not actually simple. The difficulty here is the set of conditions that they can actually get an allosaur in.

In order to reverse the baleful polymorph, you would need either break enchantment or greater dispel magic*. If you do this, you're kinda stuck with the logistics of having a full grown allosaur with you: not ideal for an otherwise unprepared party, doubly so in the arctic, and probably a part of why they haven't tried yet. Also, you'd need to roll high, given that the counterspell has to overcome a caster level check against a DC of 26 at the very least. This means that dispelling to pop him out in the middle of combat is a high risk maneuver as it can completely waste a turn and a 6th level spell slot**, and break enchantment also has a 1 minute casting time (10 turns) and as such isn't really a viable mid combat strategy, further limiting dino deployment options.
-snip-
*A standard dispel magic might work, but the odds are terrible even at the lowest DC the check might be. It all depends on how strong Miron actually is, and all we have to go on is that he could cast horrid wilting: minimum 15th level caster but could plausibly be higher.

As someone who constantly brings up that the world itself bends to storylines in these threads, I really should have known better than to rule something out based on rules probability.

That said, V has been extremely effective with their dispels over the comic: are they specced into this with a feat or two?

[SlashDash]

well now we have the problem of how the order will bring bloodfeast with them when they finish this fight and leave this place.

They are not going to go much further.

I'm absolutely doubling down on my prediction : Calder will run away in a manner that would leave a giant hole in this place. Bloodfest will be able to go out but more importantly team evil will be able to go in - directly towards the prize without the need to go through Serini's traps.

[HalfTangible]

OH LORD I FELT THAT, that was awesome (even if I'm thinking 'dude don't monologue BITE DOWN')

... and I am disappointed to discover TFS Krillin's "I taste that" line is not clipped on YT

[KorvinStarmast]

Thanks Giant! This is a great strip.
1. Love the dragon breath opener - great visuals, and it's what dragons do.
2. Love the cheap shot at Serini.
3. Love the "gyaa?" in the penultimate panel.
4. Love V's Greater Dispel Magic, with that empty potion bottle (still think it's a healing potion)
5. Love Belkar's "I'll cut my way into your esophagus" line: Belkar loves his animal companions.
6. When the Paladins arrive, they can do the mopping up.
7. Love Calder's LGLRNK! witticism in the last panel, and the expression on Bloodfeast's face.

Still, awesome fight! I didn't know how much I needed a dinosaur vs dragon fight in my life until now.

Likewise.

What I love particularly about this fight is that it's a very DnD way to take down the Dragon. It's silly and cool and strange to have a lizard transform into a T-Rex, twice in one fight, as a way to win. It feels like the creative, crazy fun way a real group of PCs would try to take down a Big Bad. I really appreciate Rich's writing, as always

Yep.

I think Calder bit off more than he can chew here.

*Groan*

[Also, clearly, Bloodfeast is experiencing character growth.]

And shrinkage, and growth again ...

So, if V could have undone the polymorph at any time, why wait until now?

You ever seen the guy who cleans up after the elephants at the circus?

: V was waiting for the coolest moment to do it!

For once, I'd agree with Elan on that.

"I prepared Explosive Food this morning."

*Chortle*

What I'm thinking is that they were all trying to keep their powder dry for a final boss fight with Xykon and Redcloak. Now they are exhausted and wounded after dealing with an ancient red dragon. It's not looking good.

Perfect time for either the IFCC or TE to show up.

Perhaps the greatest sacrifice yet in OotS: V does this, knowing that they're running a huge risk of permanently switching the lump of neurons in Belkar's proto-brain back from Hate to Love/Lust.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0335.html

Well played! Plus 10!

[Neoriceisgood]

Aw heck yes. Not expecting bloodfeast to survive particularly long but good to get a round 2 with him!

[Ionathus]

What I love particularly about this fight is that it's a very DnD way to take down the Dragon. It's silly and cool and strange to have a lizard transform into a T-Rex, twice in one fight, as a way to win. It feels like the creative, crazy fun way a real group of PCs would try to take down a Big Bad. I really appreciate Rich's writing, as always

This is a really good point! In most narrative media, you wouldn't get a T-Rex transformation reveal twice. Most authors would just do it once, for the impact shot, and then move on to something else. But I have absolutely been in a D&D fight where the best strategy was to try repeating That Thing We Did Two Turns Ago That Almost Worked. Fun to see it in comic form!

It's also still a good storytelling moment. The vibe I get from a second transformation (aside from the tactical problems for Calder) is that Calder is losing his ability to control the battlefield. He tried to shut down the T-Rex and it didn't work. That feels very much like when I'm running a boss monster and it tries & fails to stop a PC's spell or effect. It's a real blow to the boss's ego usually, and indicates that they are on the back foot.

No we don't. Belkar said "any", not "all", and it was fulfilled when he killed the Oracle. The Oracle was just teasing Belkar with the exhaustive list.

Yeah, I agree. The Oracle's vague teasing about "and as for the elf..." WAS cut off by Belkar's attack, which would be a decent way to hide a major spoiler. But given that the Oracle said "yeah I wasn't buying any of those either", he could just as easily have finished that sentence with "Vaarsuvius will die of Elf Old Age 2.5 years earlier than they otherwise would have, given all the stress your shenanigans put them through."

[ShadowSheperd]

Since bloodfeast thing is done, I see a mourning arc in Belkar's future, which is gonna be fun!

[Xlsfd]

So, I presume that V has now permanently removed the Baleful Polymorph that Miron put on Bloodfeast back in Strip 926?

[gallagher]

I would like to point out that once again, Tarquin is wrong about the allosaurus being played out

There is no such thing as too much Bloodfeast. Unless you are trying to eat him.

[Naysmith]

I noticed the same thing and had a thought: We still have an unspoken prophecy that Belkar will, in some roundabout way, cause V's death. And V is precariously close to an allosaurus that is about to fall to the ground. What if V dies here, Belkar's involvement being "crushed to death by a dinosaur that was only present because of you"?

That would be more of a stretch than Roy's death but a lot less of one than everyone else (except the Oracle himself, of course).

I'm voting on V's "death" being the effects of the Faustian bargain.

[Peelee]

I would like to point out that once again, Tarquin is wrong about the allosaurus being played out

There is no such thing as too much Bloodfeast. Unless you are trying to eat him.

The Allosaurus was withheld for quite some time, is why it isn't played out here. Tarquin was right about that.