103 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 93

[Phrozt]

- Vinny's forces defeat Stanley, Parson defeats Ansom.
- Because Stanley is slain, GK command disbands Parson.
- However, because Ansom is slain, his units are also disbanded.
- Vinny and Parson come to an understanding that both rulers were over their bounds, and that they didn't fully support all of their rulers' more vehement ambitions and agree to live in peace
- Parson becomes ruler of GK
- Parson's friends wake him up from the dream he's been having since the beginning of his series...



maybe?

[Raven777]

- Vinny's forces defeat Stanley, Parson defeats Ansom.
- Because Stanley is slain, GK command disbands Parson.
- However, because Ansom is slain, his units are also disbanded.
- Vinny and Parson come to an understanding that both rulers were over their bounds, and that they didn't fully support all of their rulers' more vehement ambitions and agree to live in peace
- Parson becomes ruler of GK
- Parson's friends wake him up from the dream he's been having since the beginning of his series...



maybe?

I always thought the story would expand beyond "The Battle for Gobwin Knob", however it ends, and go on to explore more of Erfworld and Stanley's quest for the remaining Arkentools... Is it planned that the story ends with the end of the siege ?

[Nameroc]

- Vinny's forces defeat Stanley, Parson defeats Ansom.
- Because Stanley is slain, GK command disbands Parson.
- However, because Ansom is slain, his units are also disbanded.
- Vinny and Parson come to an understanding that both rulers were over their bounds, and that they didn't fully support all of their rulers' more vehement ambitions and agree to live in peace
- Parson becomes ruler of GK
- Parson's friends wake him up from the dream he's been having since the beginning of his series...



maybe?

That's not possible, because Ansom's unit won't disband even if he dies, he's not the ruler of his faction, he's the Prince and the Warlord. Sort of like Vinnie is to his side, except Royal instead of Noble.

Also, if Stanley dies, Parson should disband too, unless Stanley designates him or someone else heir on the spot as he's falling.

[Edited for great justice]

[PePe QuiCoSE]

nah, too easy. And it wouldn't resolve a lot of plot points still lingering there.

It's ironic that pretty shrewd trick by Ansom (double move before your opponent in a chase, jolly yeah) might be what screws him. Thought they have the Archons for communication, they are not free or even more expensive if it is in between factions.

Now, this IS a good time for the Tool to remember the Foolamancer's name (or even if he has done it off-screen).

Btw, note how Stanley refuses to call Parson anything else than his title, Lord Hamster, and Ansom only calls him by his name, Parson.
Oh, and also it was shown that Vinnie does not believe that 'Holy' crap about the Arkentools, but Ansom does. But, the response that Vinnie gave to Ansom when questioned sounds weak to Ansom's ears. I think that the breaking the alliance is also as part of getting Vinnie (the one that sees the writing in the wall) away from GK.

Also GK move is officially over and now it's the alliance turn.

edit: btw, those centaur-unicorn-pegasus things are jetstone units, right?

[VariaVespasa]

Well if they splat Stanley and Parson survives without being disbanded by that, which, as a statless unit with obviously odd abilities he likely will, then as the highest ranking person remaining in GK he should be able to claim command. And since the alliances beef is with Stanley, not GK specifically, they really dont have a reason to go after GK anyway and take the casualties that would entail, even if victorious, once its commanded by a neutral party . Bloodying the alliance up in the tunnels a lot in the 1 turn Parson has before the alliance may catch Stanley will definitely help that decision along. I definitely dont think the alliance would stand for a non-essential bloodbath, and I think Ansom would have to abide by their decision even if he was still choked at Parson. After all, as best we know, it wasnt till Stanley started attacking people that an alliance formed against him. It wasnt the mere fact of his existance as a non-royal that started the war. Plus its likely that Charlie's contract is for defeating Stanley specifically, rather than the city of GK per se, and once he's gone then Charlie can legally withdraw from the alliance and talk to Parson.

So a lot comes down to whether or not theyve correctly deduced Stanleys destination and thus have a decent chance of tracking him down or not, and possibly on whether or not Stanley gets the Foolamancer back online. A question though- How much does it matter if Stanley gets the foolamancer back online if the alliance has correctly guessed his destination? I dont get the impression that Jillians old kingdom had more than one city so thats where the pursuit forces will go, whether they can see anything in the hex or not, and the cloak doesnt survive enemy entry into the hex does it? Do we know? Stanley certainly cant control the city as his new base without breaking the cloak if there are enemy units in the same hex anyway. So he could maybe sneak off somewhere else with a working foolamancer, but he'd be without a base still, with no way to easily get one.

[Frictional]

You know... I'm puttin my money on Stanley for a win when the alliance shows up to fight him. We've established that's he's pretty incompetent as far as ruling goes, but we've only got positive evidence for his performance as a Warlord, and he musta been doin that a long time. And with Dwagons, the Arkenhammer, and possibly his special battle gear, he's not going to be an easy foe to bring down.

Now, imagine that Ansom couldn't bring down GK in the time the above (possibly) happens, and has survived. I don't imagine he would be a happy camper if Julian were to croak out there.

Anyway.

Oh, and I had another thought. Since this is the battle for Gobwin Knob, Erfworld, suppose when this is all said and done, Parson goes home and we get another human, or just watch the world, no humans. Again, anyway.

[Clamps]

Stanley isn't getting croaked, because then Parson'd either disband, or be saved by some deus ex machina, neither of which are good. Stanley's incredibly arrogant, but he's shown an ability to be clever when he wants to be. I think he's a bit smarter than we're giving him credit for.

My theory: They never get to him, anyway. Stanley left a few turns ago, he has a good lead. Ansom will get caught in the trap, withdraw, lick his wounds, and be stuck at the wall since he lost nearly half his siege and all his air force.

At this point, I expect the alliance to collapse. A lot of the sides joined up expecting a really easy fight.

Ansom's Military Genius:
1. Lost 40% of his siege units, because he sent his air force after Jillian, and left the siege undefended.
2. Got caught in the Dragon Donut. Escaped mostly on luck.
3. Insulted all his allies publicly.
4. Sent away his air force to get one person. Again.
Projected:
5. Enters the tunnels, loses a decent amount of units.
6. Attacks the walls. Can't breach it in one turn, because he's down half his siege and all his air units.
7. Someone cracks, and then everyone does. Alliance falls apart.

[ShinyBrowncoat]

why was vinny so surprised? What did he think
the plan was going to be?

Oh, and what is ansom doing in the second panel where we only see him in silhouette? It looks like he's holding something...

[Krelon]

Archons in petticoats. Cute. Now they can smite dwagons with flashy powers like the magical manga girls they are.

MY guess is that Ansom goes through the tunnels in the meantime (without air units he could use only siege above ground). The best possible outcome for Parson would be an extra bloody air battle with only few survivors on the alliance side and at the same time Ansoms' crushing defeat in the tunnels.

[Laurentio]

Wow... lot of things to think about.

And since the alliances beef is with Stanley, not GK specifically, they really dont have a reason to go after GK anyway and take the casualties that would entail, even if victorious, once its commanded by a neutral party

Conquering a city is ALWAYS a good think to do in a strategic game. Every city has a money production, and usually special troops related to the place and setting. So, no reason not to conquer GK, the moment you have more than ten times the forces you need for.
And, Parson insulted the opposite commander. Why should Ansom allow him to walk away with it?

The pursuit of Stanley is clearly a plan full designed before Parson call. So I won't make any epileptic tree on it and Ansom goating. It's just bad for him that he have to send away is best friends. But who else he trust enough to send on a critical task?

Charlie Call Out Opening? Maybe. But if he agreed, as Ansom stated, I doubt he will change mind at the last moment. Parson life doesn't depend on Stanley survival: some unit (wizard for sure, so warlord probably) just became Barbarian.

Supposing, obviously, that the flying stack wins. While Stanley is a ****, he has for sure an Arkentool. Artifact Bonus stacked on Warlord Bonus on a full-fledge stack of dragons with a flavor of Knights? Sound a little strong.

And not to mention surprise ending. We suppose that Stanley is going to claim the FAQ kingdom. Why not going to tame new dragons?
Could Wanda recover in time, thus potentially reveling the Foolmancer name?

Laurentio

[Oracle_Hunter]

Man, Ansom is so booped. He's angry thanks to Parson's psychological warfare, has dissolved an alliance with all the smart/funny/interesting characters in the strip, and appears to be entirely without air units.

Tin Foil Hat Alliance (TFHA) Theory:

Spoiler

Show

Now all it takes is for Parson's Xanatos Gambit to roll out, snaring the majority of Ansom's forces in the tunnels while managing for Parson, personally, to capture Ansom, thus paralyzing the remaining forces.

Stanley will be driven off, and Side Awesome (Jillian + Vinny) will be forced to rebuild FAQ when Charlie's contract ends and they need to marshal new forces to rescue Ansom. Meanwhile, Parson will mysteriously become the Lord of Gobwin Knob, and launch a new campaign - allied with Ansom or Charlie - to stop Stanley!

How's that for a prediction?

[TheWombat]

Notice how Ansom said that "Charlie and Don King have been apprised of the plan." That implies agreement with the plan, but actually only means they were informed of it. The Archons (and Charlescomm as whole) are currently allied with Jetstone. If they break their alliance that most likely ends their contract. A new contract would have to be formed with Transilvito.

At least that's what I think is going down.

[Mr Horse]

I think that
1. Stanley's going to be defeated and/or go into hiding
2. Jillian will start a new side, allied with Vinny/Transylvito and Charlescomm
3. Charlie will recruit/ally with Parson and whoever Parson wants to take with him
4. ... and Ansom will become the new main antagonist.

:P

[PePe QuiCoSE]

why was vinny so surprised? What did he think
the plan was going to be?

Oh, and what is ansom doing in the second panel where we only see him in silhouette? It looks like he's holding something...

Breaking an alliance takes a great deal of trust. If by chance a Jetstone stack without a warlord came in the way of Vinnie and company, the Jetstone would automatically attack.

I saw that too about the silhouette, but from the following panel i assumes he is just adjusting his gauntlets.

[Jarawara]

Vinny: "We're gonna have a two-cask talk when we meet again."

Ansom: "Vinny, it... that could be a long time, but yes, maybe three casks."


Question: Does ErfWorld have an afterlife?

Because based on that dialog above, it sure sounds like Vinny's talking about meeting up later, when it's all over, while Ansom's talking about meeting in after it's ALL over, as in, after death. His dialog indicates that it might be awhile before Vinny joins him in the afterlife.

I think Ansom thinks/knows he's going to die, make the 'ultimate sacrifice' for his cause.

[Calemyr]

Well, officially, the Battle for Gobwin Knob is listed as "Part One" on the first page. Of course, that was a long time ago and there have been some hard times since, so plans may have changed.

Sending Zamussels after Stanley was smart, as it uses her motivations and her history to their greatest effect. Taking Charlie's archons out of the siege was also reasonable, as it removes another wild card from the mix. Sending Vinnie off... no way. That is the guy who has been first at every turn to see through Parson's moves and has always been the voice of reason. With his heaviest hitters gone, his best advisor gone, his siege capacity halved, his fliers gone, and coalition morale plummeting, I'm hard pressed to see how Ansom even poses much of a threat to Gobwin Knob now...

[Pronounceable]

4. ... and Ansom will become the new main antagonist.

Ansom IS the antagonist.

[SteveMB]

Vinny: "We're gonna have a two-cask talk when we meet again."

Ansom: "Vinny, it... that could be a long time, but yes, maybe three casks."

Question: Does ErfWorld have an afterlife?

Because based on that dialog above, it sure sounds like Vinny's talking about meeting up later, when it's all over, while Ansom's talking about meeting in after it's ALL over, as in, after death. His dialog indicates that it might be awhile before Vinny joins him in the afterlife.

I think Ansom thinks/knows he's going to die, make the 'ultimate sacrifice' for his cause.

Vinny referred to "the City of Heroes" when they expected to be attacked by Stanley's remaining dwagons before they can rejoin the column or heal from the damage taken in the battle over the lake. (Of course, what characters believe and actual reality are not necessarily the same thing.)

The interpretation that Ansom isn't expecting to survive is possible, but not all that likely IMO -- he's still pretty confident in his ability to put "this Parson character" in his place. I think the pause is just an awkward response to realizing that his snap at Vinny was uncalled for.

[DeathQuaker]

(irrational rant commences)

*sigh* Jillian always manages to disappoint me. And I want to like her... I always like the sassy sword-wielding warrior women. But she's obviously all talk--she kicks butt in combat, sure, but in personal affairs she has the backbone of a jellyfish. Ansom is obviously a loser, and it's painful to see her hug him after she *just* watched him proclaim his thoughts about nobility versus non-nobles. "Yay, let's ignore my strong personal beliefs because a handsome man likes me!"

Blech blech blech yuck yuck. *spits bad taste out of her mouth*

I realize there may be more to it than that, and that her character arc may end on a positive note, but it's stomach churning to watch at the moment. With only two female characters in the cast, and one appears to be a dominator (no not dominatrix--I don't mind that, but the mental manipulation is the issue) and the other seems to be willing to sacrifice everything for a huge jerk (or alternatively, for said dominator who manipulates her), it's just... it's just... it's just frustrating.

Basically, I'm just sad I have no cool chicks to identify with or root for.

Okay, well, there's Maggie, I guess. As quoth Etta Candy, "Woo @$#!ing woo."

(end rant)

[Quaalsten]

Well, now we see Hamster's payoff. Since the air units are gone, Ansom is almost certainly committed to the tunnel attack.

[Doug Lampert]

Hehe Parson surely did make Ansom royally pissed.

I'm surpriced that one could switch alliance to get the next turn earlier. Neat twist!

I've seen it done in actual multisided turn based strategy games. Alliances move togather (neccessary), production is based on time (duh), thus everyone needs to get the same number of turns in the same amount of game time (i.e. one move per turn per side).

You CAN'T arrange to meet the above criteria in a game with more than three sides and the ability to arbitrarily form and break alliances without it being possible for one side to go after another side in turn N and before that same side in turn N+1.

Ergo double moving is possible in pretty much any multisided grand strategy game that allows alliances, doesn't use simultanious moves, and isn't willing to use the fudge that sometimes a side simply losses a turn.

You can minimize the chance of this by putting "natural allies" close to each other in the turn order (say villians move first, then good guys), but it can still happen if for instance a faction named Transilvito were to join the good guys despite having an early move...

[Ben]

I think that the Coalition forces still vastly outclass any GK forces.
After all, the coalition has lost what, a few gwiffons? GK has lost almost half their dwagons. Going in, Ansom said that Jillian had a tough task fighting the air battle, but that was with the full dwagon force and before they had the Archons on their side. And she was supposed to still win that one. It would be a massive battle, but I don't think Stanley can win it. He's gonna need to cloak his units in slightly less conspicuous ways than a blimp that says "Stanley" on it.

And of course Parson has whatever he can pull out of his... imagination to defend GK itself. He's managed to manipulate them into making a tunnel attack, through weakening their siege, their sending air units off after Stanley, and cunning ploys, but even then, he's massively outnumbered. And if you think that his forces will be weakened significantly in numbers, look at the coalition breakdown from his Stupid Meal:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0096.html
3949 Jetstone
1875 Marbits
820 Elves
are all definitely staying for the siege.
15 CharlesComm
29 Transylvito
19 Barbarian
are all definitely going for the air assault. There's probably some guys from Sofa King, Foxmud, etc in the air, but even so, the ground forces are massive. Parson can probably bloody them in the tunnels, but he's not going to win through warfare.

His plan was to get the coalition to break up, so he'd get to fight them individually. Nobody will want to be the first to fight in the tunnels... or possibly nobody will want to be the second after seeing what happens to the guys who go in first. His best hope, in my opinion, is that nobody will want to fight for GK when Stanley isn't there (and that's who everyone wants to end). So Parson needs to hope that either Stanley can elude the fliers (what's that foolamancer's name?) or maybe that he gets captured and that doesn't end the side.

Or maybe Stanley will get croaked and only the gobwins will remain (as natural allies). I don't like that, though; we've got too much invested in the characters of Wanda and Sizemore.


Incidentally, the flying centaur unicorn guys can't be Jetstone units if they're supposed to break their alliance with Jetstone.

[BarGamer]

The "new" alliance needs Vinny to be out in the field, or they will have no-one to ally with. So sending Vinny out makes strategic and logical sense, but not very wise. But putting Jillian in charge of Vinny IS a bad idea. So far, we've not seen a direct interaction between Jillian and Vinny. I can't wait. XD Hopefully it's not a repeat of the Jillian/Webinar thing.

Vinny: "I'm smarter than you. I should be leader."
Jillian: "If you want to be leader, you'll have to take it from me. And my combat bonus is higher. And your boyfriend is a... nevermind, I did that joke already."
Vinny: "You fail at jokes. He's your boyfriend, not mine. I got these three hotties, and even more are coming over. MMMmmmm... harem..."

PS: Archons in sailor fuku! YES!

PPS: Ansom is picking up his helmet in that silhouette. But it LOOKED like he was about to smack Vinny with it, Trinity-style, didn't it? And given the last panel, Ansom is getting very, very, suspicious and paranoid of Vinny's charm and persuasive skills. Good job, Parson!

Completely out of left field: So... I guess if Jillian is returning to GK to divide spoils, she's not going back to FAQ to restore her queenship... And given the abrupt way he ended that meeting, it makes me wonder WHY she thanks Ansom in the last panels.

[SteveMB]

(irrational rant commences)

*sigh* Jillian always manages to disappoint me. And I want to like her... I always like the sassy sword-wielding warrior women. But she's obviously all talk--she kicks butt in combat, sure, but in personal affairs she has the backbone of a jellyfish. Ansom is obviously a loser, and it's painful to see her hug him after she *just* watched him proclaim his thoughts about nobility versus non-nobles. "Yay, let's ignore my strong personal beliefs because a handsome man likes me!"

Blech blech blech yuck yuck. *spits bad taste out of her mouth*

To be fair, we have no idea whether her "strong personal beliefs" really confict with Ansom's worldview in general -- we know that she herself doesn't want to live the life of a royal, but that's not quite the same thing.

The acid test will come when the issue of reclaiming Faq (as Ansom obviously wants her to do, and probably thinks is the only right and proper option open to her) versus continuing to live as a free barbarian mercenary warlord (as she prefers) can no longer by evaded.

That said -- yeah, it's clear that Jillian isn't very good at dealing with life situations other than combat.

[Templar]

But she's obviously all talk--she kicks butt in combat, sure, but in personal affairs she has the backbone of a jellyfish.

Those two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive you know.

[SirBel]

I think Stanley's going to get to Faq first and establish the city as his new capitol. In turn based games I've played, if you take an open city, it usually has some units in it that you gain. Once Vinny & Co. catch up to Stanley, I think he'll be in a solid defensive position in Faq, able to repel Vinny's attack. Plus, Stanley's warrior/overlord/Arkenhammer/cmdr on the field stats are probably VERY high.

I agree with everyone else, Ansom won't be able to take GK now. His forces are divided, he's distracted, and his intel on Parson's defence is incorrect.

This is getting good!

[Kcalehc]

Vinny: "We're gonna have a two-cask talk when we meet again."

Ansom: "Vinny, it... that could be a long time, but yes, maybe three casks."


Question: Does ErfWorld have an afterlife?

Because based on that dialog above, it sure sounds like Vinny's talking about meeting up later, when it's all over, while Ansom's talking about meeting in after it's ALL over, as in, after death. His dialog indicates that it might be awhile before Vinny joins him in the afterlife.

I think Ansom thinks/knows he's going to die, make the 'ultimate sacrifice' for his cause.

I read the 'cask' thing totally differently. I thought they were referring to a 'cask' of drink (like wine or whiskey, for example); indicating they will have a long drawn out discussion over a large number of drinks. Such as some men do. And as to the length of time, they are at war you know, and Ansom is planning/organising it; so he may well have knowledge of Vinny being away longer than he's let on to the audience yet.

I also have a feeling that there was no afterlife, and that this was mentioned somewhere in the comic.

[SteveMB]

I think Stanley's going to get to Faq first and establish the city as his new capitol. In turn based games I've played, if you take an open city, it usually has some units in it that you gain. Once Vinny & Co. catch up to Stanley, I think he'll be in a solid defensive position in Faq, able to repel Vinny's attack. Plus, Stanley's warrior/overlord/Arkenhammer/cmdr on the field stats are probably VERY high.

Also, if Stanley does make it to Faq, Jillian might not be willing to lead her force there (that would reveal its existence and location). She's aiming to head him off, using her knowledge of the local geography and the double-move exploit from the alliance shift.

[Twisted Otaku]

hehehe 9th panel "Earth angel, earth angel~" : p

[Gez]

I dont get the impression that Jillians old kingdom had more than one city

Three cities: "A capital and two subordinate cities, with mountains on all sides. Isolated." 1+2=3.

The "new" alliance needs Vinny to be out in the field, or they will have no-one to ally with. So sending Vinny out makes strategic and logical sense, but not very wise. But putting Jillian in charge of Vinny IS a bad idea. So far, we've not seen a direct interaction between Jillian and Vinny. I can't wait. XD Hopefully it's not a repeat of the Jillian/Webinar thing.

If they are to break their alliance with Jetstone (whose highest-ranked in the column in Prince Ansom, making him the leader of the coalition) and ally with Transylvito (whose highest-ranked member I presume to be Vinny), then presumably Jillian (a barbarian currently allied to Jetstone) will presumably be mechanically under the command of Vinny.