[spoiler] I Think Wanda's ...

[Liminaut]

in love with the Tool.

Parallel to the way Jillian is in love with Ansom, Wanda's in love with Stanley. Except Wanda can't ever tell Stanley because the Tool treats people like, well, tools.

Why do I think this?
1) Wanda didn't go catatonic when Jillian snapped the control spell; Wanda went catatonic when Stanley rejected her.
2) Wanda didn't go all cheat-code when Jillian showed up; Wanda went into cheat-code mode when Jillian threatened Stanley.
3) Wanda isn't under any loyalty 'spell'.

Consider: if Wanda goes into battle against Jillian's whole force by herself, there is a good chance she'll croak. It only makes sense if protecting the Tool matters more that her own life.

There's only one "loyalty spell" strong enough to do that, and that's love.

[Kasavin]

in love with the Tool.

Parallel to the way Jillian is in love with Ansom, Wanda's in love with Stanley. Except Wanda can't ever tell Stanley because the Tool treats people like, well, tools.

Why do I think this?
1) Wanda didn't go catatonic when Jillian snapped the control spell; Wanda went catatonic when Stanley rejected her.
2) Wanda didn't go all cheat-code when Jillian showed up; Wanda went into cheat-code mode when Jillian threatened Stanley.
3) Wanda isn't under any loyalty 'spell'.

Consider: if Wanda goes into battle against Jillian's whole force by herself, there is a good chance she'll croak. It only makes sense if protecting the Tool matters more that her own life.

There's only one "loyalty spell" strong enough to do that, and that's love.

1 is a very weak argument, rejection involves crying and self pity, not catonics. When the strip gives you a perfectly reasonable explanation for an event (given the universe) than its always a bad idea to reject and reinterpret to better suit your pet theory. Furthermore, Stanley rejects Wanda's ideas all the time, or so it would seem from my perspective. Check page 18 to see Stanley calling Wanda useless.

As for the other two, personally I don't think so, but I guess they're OK explanations. As for the love itself, "De gustibus non est disputandum." So who knows, really.

[SteveMB]

1 is a very weak argument, rejection involves crying and self pity, not catonics. When the strip gives you a perfectly reasonable explanation for an event (given the universe) than its always a bad idea to reject and reinterpret to better suit your pet theory. Furthermore, Stanley rejects Wanda's ideas all the time, or so it would seem from my perspective. Check page 18 to see Stanley calling Wanda useless.

Also, Maggie (a specialist Thinkamancer) tries to bring Wanda around. She doesn't mention anything odd about her condition, which suggests that what she found was exactly what she was expecting to find (the effects of backlash from a broken suggestion spell).

However, as Liminaut noted, the timing isn't right for the breaking of the spell on Jillian (unless the spell didn't actually break, or at least not completely, until Ansom came to the rescue... but that's something of a stretch, given that Jaclyn can detect such spells and would know if it was still in effect). The theory I'm leaning toward at the moment is that Wanda put a suggestion spell on Stanley (perhaps when she "relaxed" him), and it snapped when Stanley, enraged at the fiasco, put a large part of the blame on Wanda (who had cast the failed spell on Jillian and has spent the bulk of his treasure to summon the rather-less-than-Perfect Warlord).

The above said, it's certainly true that Wanda seems determined to stand by the Tool. See also Wanda's reaction the last time Jillian proposed that Wanda desert him. It could be love, or personal loyalty, or pragmatic calculation that the Tool (or perhaps more importantly, the attuned Arkenhammer) is too useful to abandon.

[Kasavin]

However, as Liminaut noted, the timing isn't right for the breaking of the spell on Jillian (unless the spell didn't actually break, or at least not completely, until Ansom came to the rescue... but that's something of a stretch, given that Jaclyn can detect such spells and would know if it was still in effect). The theory I'm leaning toward at the moment is that Wanda put a suggestion spell on Stanley (perhaps when she "relaxed" him), and it snapped when Stanley, enraged at the fiasco, put a large part of the blame on Wanda (who had cast the failed spell on Jillian and has spent the bulk of his treasure to summon the rather-less-than-Perfect Warlord).

If the backlash from one spell can croack a caster (as what happened to Misty), than the backlash from two should definitely have done Wanda in. As for timing, I don't see where the problem is. Suggestion spells allow their targets a good degree of leeway, such as never working for somebody they hate. Its quite possible that she can attack the stack of dwagons in spite of the spell, and Anson's appearance is what allowed her to finally overthrow it completely. Invoking Occam's razor, thats a lot simpler than a second suggestion spell.

On the otherhand, I have my own out there theory, so I shouldn't criticize to much. What if the Arkentools have their own will and agenda, though probably not sentience in the traditional sense, and inevitably subvert any who weild them. Kind of like the one ring, only there's at least four of them and who knows what their agenda is.

[Mhord]

I've been a lurker for a while, but I'd like to support the theory of the suggestion spell not being exactly there...re-reading the comic, I think there's no doubt there was a spell, but I think the comic also shows that it's not a simple matter....Here, the links wich make me think so:

erf0028
erf0030
erf0036
erf0039
erf0043
erf0045
erf0046
erf0070
erf0071
erf0072
erf0073
erf0074
erf0076
erf0078

In these strips, it is shown that Jillian has been difficult and suspected of treachery several times before this one, and there has been no need for a mind-controlling spell for that before. Also, she has a "good" S&M relationship with Wanda, and they're friends too, since they can talk to each other normally, about what they're doing and their problems. After the torture session, Wanda erases the minion's mind so this is not revealed...so, even if she casted a mind-controlling spell, it would appear that she is letting her go, in part, because they're friends and lovers, in a way...

Later on, wanda insists that they don't know about the properties of her spell, and that it's complicated...she says that even to a caster that has a lot of knowledge about all kinds of magic. Wich kind of points to the fact that it's not the usual suggestion spell....Also, when Jillian attacks the dwagons, Wanda doesn't fell any backslash..is much later than that, and since the disbanding of the 3 eyemancers destroyes the other 2 at the same moment, I'd say it hasn't affected wanda this way...Wanda seems traumatised by the fact thah Jillian betrayed her,and also, by the fact that the Tool said he didn't want to see her more, supporting the theory that the real target was Stanley, since the backslash from Jillian seems to be missing....I think they explained to Maggie that Wanda had casted a suggestion spell on Jillian, and Maggie knows the backslash can produce these effects, so she supposes that's the case...also for that reason, it may be that there was no spell in the first place, and Maggie, seeing the sypmtoms, which are the same than from a backslash, supposes so after being told there was a suggestion spell....

I''ll go further...considering that "loyalty" is a stat in erfworld, what other things can be calculated, or can influence the people there? Maybe love can be considered a form of natural thinkamancy too, so a "natural backslash" of being rejected can be confused with an artificial one, caused by a suggestion spell. And if you think the effects are too severe, well, Wanda seems to have been in control, even when some details escaped her, all the time....when she's told by Stanley, for the first time probably, to get lost and never appear in front of him again, I guess it may have been a great shock, doesn't matter the cause....

There's no doubt after the last panel that Jillian had a spell, but the point is that it might have been a different one...for example, one to block Jillian's love for ansom, and nothing else...and that's what made her mad, because according to Wanda herself, Jillian loves Ansom...so, even if she would try to help wanda, she would have killed the dwagons when she saw them, in order to save Ansom.

Those are just examples of theories that show things don't seem to be quite clear when it comes to this suggestion spell...just my opinion, of course, but I think that to accept than Jillian was controlled, that's all, it's way too simplistic, since I think the authors haven't clarified the subject...it may be there was a suggestion spell and the authors think the subject needs no clarification at all, of course, but the feeling I get reading the strips is that there's more to it than that,and that the authors have never affirmed, as clealry as some say, that things happened like that.

Just my thought about it...(maye I've read too recently George R. R. Martin's books where nothing is what it seems...but the point is several things in the strip makes one doubt about "simplistic" and "clear" explanations...since it would limit quite a lot of their relationship to "magic", and I dont think this makes sense....)

[Ptorquemada]

If the backlash from one spell can croack a caster (as what happened to Misty), than the backlash from two should definitely have done Wanda in.

I agree that the evidence for a second Suggestion with Stanley as the target is pretty meager, and I don't personally think that's what happened. However...

In #93 Maggie doesn't act like it's a big deal that Wanda could manage to cast a suggestion spell even though she's being pretty dismissive of Wanda's Thinkamancy abilities. That seems to imply it's a fairly simple spell, vs #60 where Sizemore informs Parson that the link spell is complex, especially with three casters involved, and nobody's ever managed it with four. It doesn't seem unreasonable for the risks to be greater with a more powerful/difficult spell.

As for why Wanda is voluntarily working with/for Stanley: I doubt that she's actually in love with him, but, hey, he's got a big Tool, and that's got to count for something.

[Banjooie]

This seems relatively simple.

Step 1: Stanley destroys your home castle.

Step 2: You manipulate him into nearly completely decimating his own empire.

Step 3: Maybe get the Arkentool out of it somehow.

[SteveMB]

This seems relatively simple.

Step 1: Stanley destroys your home castle.

Step 2: You manipulate him into nearly completely decimating his own empire.

Step 3: Maybe get the Arkentool out of it somehow.

If Wanda's hidden agenda is to undermine Stanley, why not just let him go ahead and promote the next handsome and dashing guy left?

[Banjooie]

*headshake*

*deskslam*

Because she needed to drain the treasury.

Set up an impossible win scenario for Stanley. He runs out of the capital, he's slain.

Remember, there seem to be different rules if you run out of the capital. Wanda becomes a free agent, and if we're accepting the Wanda Manipulating Stanley thing, she might have got him to do it and then forget completely about it.

Do what? Set an Heir Apparent. We've established she has 'Forget what just happened' dust.

This gives Wanda her own personal side. Remember, she tries to hide that she understands combat fairly well. I think this all seems to fit rather nicely.

[SteveMB]

Because she needed to drain the treasury.

Maybe, though I can't really see how having somewhat more or less money in the treasury would make a great difference to that plan.

[Pyrian]

Perhaps it prevents him from rebuilding FAQ?

[archon_huskie]

Parson's a new ally in the war. One way or another that is money well spent.

[Free1983]

If she wants Stanley to die, why would she try to croak commander Zamussel now?

[Laurentio]

*headshake*

*deskslam*

Because she needed to drain the treasury.

Set up an impossible win scenario for Stanley. He runs out of the capital, he's slain.

Remember, there seem to be different rules if you run out of the capital.

Stretched. Could be, but it's really, really NOT the simplest way to reach the same goal, and it's not indicated anywhere that draining the treasury has any real effect on the troops.
More, Wanda showed to help in more that a situation, when failing to help would not put her in trouble. Like informing Parson of Ansom plans, or preventing him to destroy the Eyemancer Table.

BTW: why in the Titan's sake this thread is to be considered a "Spoiler"? People is using this term to give more effect to titles, I suppose. "Hey guys, I've a new theory. Please read. I means... it's a Spoiler! with 100% more cheese!"

Laurentio

[Strengfellow]

Made of cheese.

[Twisted Otaku]

in love with the Tool.

Parallel to the way Jillian is in love with Ansom, Wanda's in love with Stanley. Except Wanda can't ever tell Stanley because the Tool treats people like, well, tools.

Why do I think this?
1) Wanda didn't go catatonic when Jillian snapped the control spell; Wanda went catatonic when Stanley rejected her.
2) Wanda didn't go all cheat-code when Jillian showed up; Wanda went into cheat-code mode when Jillian threatened Stanley.
3) Wanda isn't under any loyalty 'spell'.

Consider: if Wanda goes into battle against Jillian's whole force by herself, there is a good chance she'll croak. It only makes sense if protecting the Tool matters more that her own life.

There's only one "loyalty spell" strong enough to do that, and that's love.

Doubtful at best. If she 'loved' Stanley, why would she give Parson tips on how to manipulate him (even without spells or feminine wiles)? That shows a total lack of respect, and you can't love somebody you can't respect. And when she 'relaxed' him it was to save Parson's ass, not because she wanted him *blech*.


to reply to your numerical categorized points:
1)Not exactly, the timing is close but she snapped because she realized Jillian chose Ansom over her. It can be theorized that THAT is the reason why she's nonresponsive. I know there's supposed to be issues with spell backlash, but we don't know how far that goes. It might be a mixture of that and/or extreme depression that one feels when they are betrayed by a lover.

2) Wanda went cheat code on Jillian because she was not Satisfied with her answer. After being betrayed by her and being so hurt by it, Wanda was left with two powerful emotions, confusion and unbridled anger. With her curiosity as to why Jillian betrayed her satisfied, there was only the anger, the hurt and the want for vindictive revenge left in her.

3) Not sure how this relates to your argument. Just because she's not under a loyalty spell doesn't not mean that she loves Stanley... actually that's a pretty big stretch. What seems more plausible, given Wanda's ability to manipulate and what seems like a good deal of initiative and intelligence, is that she's staying by Stanley in order to use him. If everybod is pissed at Stanley, he'll catch most of the flak, not her. That way she can still enact her agenda and let somebody else take the fall for it.

[Gnomish Lab]

Stretched. Could be, but it's really, really NOT the simplest way to reach the same goal, and it's not indicated anywhere that draining the treasury has any real effect on the troops.
More, Wanda showed to help in more that a situation, when failing to help would not put her in trouble. Like informing Parson of Ansom plans, or preventing him to destroy the Eyemancer Table.

BTW: why in the Titan's sake this thread is to be considered a "Spoiler"? People is using this term to give more effect to titles, I suppose. "Hey guys, I've a new theory. Please read. I means... it's a Spoiler! with 100% more cheese!"

Laurentio

If I remember correctly, this costume was developed in the Oots Forum, because the giant has a policy against reading crazy theories of Oots readers, in case the theories are true.

See:
http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq8

[Laurentio]

If I remember correctly, this costume was developed in the Oots Forum, because the giant has a policy against reading crazy theories of Oots readers, in case the theories are true.

See:
http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq8

Actually, Spoilers are to be used for any reference to printed books with material not published on the webcomic, that people could have not reed (like me). You don't need to hide your opinion or epileptic trees for fear of Rich. It's suffices that he doesn't read the forum (apparently).
So a spoiler on Erfworld is mostly nonsensical, but I suppose that it's so cool.

Ok, end of the rant.

Laurentio

[Gnomish Lab]

Actually, Spoilers are to be used for any reference to printed books with material not published on the webcomic, that people could have not reed (like me). You don't need to hide your opinion or epileptic trees for fear of Rich. It's suffices that he doesn't read the forum (apparently).
So a spoiler on Erfworld is mostly nonsensical, but I suppose that it's so cool.

Ok, end of the rant.

Laurentio

I know what spoilers stand for.
I just wanted to show how this custom came into being.

[Aquillion]

I strongly disagree with Wanda being in love with Stanley -- she seems as openly contemptuous of him as it's possible for her to safely be.

The above said, it's certainly true that Wanda seems determined to stand by the Tool. See also Wanda's reaction the last time Jillian proposed that Wanda desert him. It could be love, or personal loyalty, or pragmatic calculation that the Tool (or perhaps more importantly, the attuned Arkenhammer) is too useful to abandon.

I think all of this speculation has overlooked one vital aspect of Wanda's situation:

Imagine where she'd be if she defected to Jillian's side. Jillian talks about them just "running off" (presumably as barbarians), but with the last page we know that that's not how it works -- you can't just be neutral and do whatever you want, you need a side. In other words, Jillian's offer is for Wanda to join her side -- to give Jillian the absolute power of life and death over her, with Wanda absolutely required to obey Jillian's every order and supernaturally bound in loyalty to her. Even putting aside Wanda's personality, would you really want that? It's a terrible position to be in. But Wanda's in that situation already, you say? Maybe, maybe... but let's think about it for a moment.

I think Wanda hates the Erfworld system (quite understandably -- it's an awful system for anyone who isn't a faction leader.) So why be loyal to Stanley?

Easy: She isn't loyal to Stanley. In fact, it's the exact opposite -- she utterly loathes him and has no loyalty to him whatsoever. That's why she needs to keep him alive.

Think about it. We know, from the last page, that captured casters have notoriously low loyalty scores, and we know Wanda isn't under any compulsion.

There is one way -- and only one -- that you can attain actual free will in the Erfworld system without being a faction leader. It's been mentioned before, but only in passing: Units have a hidden loyalty score. We can infer that if you fail a loyalty check, you are, in effect, free -- you are no longer loyal to your side, but you don't automatically get bound to any other side, either. This is what has happened to Wanda. That is why she can go to such lengths to manipulate Stanley (although she has to be careful and look like she's doing it within the rules, so he doesn't know she's turned -- notice how he seems suspicious early on when she suggests summoning a perfect warlord. He's noticed the signs.)

But, ironically, to maintain that state, she still needs to keep Stanley alive. She hates him and holds him in absolute contempt, but she loves having the freedom to hate him or hold him in contempt, and to keep that freedom she needs him to live. If he's croaked, she either goes to being a practically brain-dead neutral, or someone else's slave (with no guarantee that she'll 'fail' her loyalty roll again.) And that explains why she gets so angry every time Jillian suggests running away or turning, too -- from her perspective, Jillian is offering to enslave her.

Under this theory, she enjoyed dominating Jillian partially because she loathes the normal innate Erfworld leader-follower relationship so much. Also note that, morally, this gives her better high ground than it might appear at first -- sure, Jillian got all upset when she had her mind dominated by Wanda, but as a faction leader Jillian does that to her followers every day without even thinking about it.

At least Wanda thought that Jillian enjoyed it. What's Jillian's excuse?

(Also, if we assume Wanda is a traitor to Stanley's side, under Erfworld's idiosyncratic definition of treason -- which, ironically, would cause any rational unit to become more genuinely loyal in many ways -- I wonder if that has any implications for her eagerness to summon a warlord from another world? There could be some special rules dealing with such summoned warlords that Stanley isn't aware of which she is trying to exploit to get out from under his thumb completely, without having to go neutral or become loyal to anyone else.)

[SteveMB]

I strongly disagree with Wanda being in love with Stanley -- she seems as openly contemptuous of him as it's possible for her to safely be.

True.

I think all of this speculation has overlooked one vital aspect of Wanda's situation:

Imagine where she'd be if she defected to Jillian's side. Jillian talks about them just "running off" (presumably as barbarians), but with the last page we know that that's not how it works -- you can't just be neutral and do whatever you want, you need a side.

However, Jillian has (to all appearances) been doing exactly that -- functioning as a freelance barbarian mercenary. The fact that she's really a royal and heir to the otherwise destroyed Faq side doesn't change the fact that it must be possible to function as a freelance barbarian mercenary, or else nobody would have taken her for such.

That said, Wanda is a former Faq unit and knows that Jillian is a royal. She might assume that Jillian was attempting to recruit her to restart the Faq side. Even if her actual intent is to recruit Wanda to join her as a freelance mercenary, being the leader of the band might be similar to being the leader of a full-fledged side, in terms of binding subordinates' loyalty.

In other words, Jillian's offer is for Wanda to join her side -- to give Jillian the absolute power of life and death over her, with Wanda absolutely required to obey Jillian's every order and supernaturally bound in loyalty to her. Even putting aside Wanda's personality, would you really want that? It's a terrible position to be in. But Wanda's in that situation already, you say? Maybe, maybe... but let's think about it for a moment.

I think Wanda hates the Erfworld system (quite understandably -- it's an awful system for anyone who isn't a faction leader.) So why be loyal to Stanley?

Easy: She isn't loyal to Stanley. In fact, it's the exact opposite -- she utterly loathes him and has no loyalty to him whatsoever. That's why she needs to keep him alive.

Think about it. We know, from the last page, that captured casters have notoriously low loyalty scores, and we know Wanda isn't under any compulsion.

That raises the question of why Stanley didn't put Wanda under a loyalty spell when he first acquired her for his side. Perhaps he couldn't (didn't have a Thinkamancer at the time?), though that leaves the question of why he didn't revisit the issue (perhaps the link was actually Wanda's "shrewd" idea to get the Thinkamancer out of the way). Perhaps he tried, and (unknown to him) it didn't take (Loyalty is not a visible stat, and Erfworlders may simply be assuming that it's a mechanical "stat" at all).

Or perhaps, as a former subordinate unit himself, he chose not to use such methods. Note that he wanted his Perfect Warlord to be someone who wanted to be summoned, and wasn't just serving him because the spell compelled it. (Admittedly, Stanley does threaten to disband Parson on multiple occasions, but that may simply reflect bouts of temper.)

Under this theory, she enjoyed dominating Jillian partially because she loathes the normal innate Erfworld leader-follower relationship so much. Also note that, morally, this gives her better high ground than it might appear at first -- sure, Jillian got all upset when she had her mind dominated by Wanda, but as a faction leader Jillian does that to her followers every day without even thinking about it.

At least Wanda thought that Jillian enjoyed it. What's Jillian's excuse?

There are a couple of additional complexities. Various hints, including Jillian's wording during the confrontation at the tower ("No. Not that way. You went too far." --emphasis added) suggest that she did enjoy it until Wanda "went too far" (the suggestion spell). Jillian's description of her personal history makes it clear that she did not enjoy the normal life of an Erfworld royal, and prefers the life of a freelance mercenary (note that she has no sapient followers to dominate).

(Also, if we assume Wanda is a traitor to Stanley's side, under Erfworld's ideosyncratic definition of treasion -- which, ironically, would cause any rational unit to become more genuinely loyal in many ways -- I wonder if that has any implications for her eagerness to summon a warlord from another world? There could be some special rules dealing with such summoned warlords that Stanley isn't aware of which she is trying to exploit to get out from under his thumb completely, without having to go neutral or become loyal to anyone else.)

Could be. If nothing else, a warlord from another world wouldn't have agendas other than the basic ones of survival and (possibly) attempting to return home.

[Freederick]

I think all of this speculation has overlooked one vital aspect of Wanda's situation:
...
Blah, blah, blah...
...

A brilliant analysis. Wanda's actions make perfect sense when seen in this light.

[Aquillion]

However, Jillian has (to all appearances) been doing exactly that -- functioning as a freelance barbarian mercenary. The fact that she's really a royal and heir to the otherwise destroyed Faq side doesn't change the fact that it must be possible to function as a freelance barbarian mercenary, or else nobody would have taken her for such.

Hmm. It could be like being a 'neutral faction' such as the elves -- some people are just created as neutral mercenaries, loyal to whoever pays them. But from what the last page said about what happens to neutral cities, it doesn't seem like you can just choose to become one (unless you're a faction leader, I guess, in which case you end up as one when all your cities are destroyed.)

In any case, it looks like even barbarians have leaders (everyone recognized Jillian as the person in charge of her peeps and so on, and she had the power to negotiate and accept pay -- she just wasn't recognized as a royal.) It seems likely she's still a 'side' in the technical sense, and still has the same power over everyone in her Barbarian faction that Stanley has over his, just without a city. She probably accepts it as natural and doesn't think about it at all, so she has no idea why Wanda reacts the way she does.

Wanda's actions make perfect sense when seen in this light.

What I like best about my theory is that it explains why Wanda gets so furious each time Jillian suggests that she turn -- we never really see her angry at any other point in the strip, but the two times Jillian has said that, Wanda instantly lost her temper.

[SteveMB]

Hmm. It could be like being a 'neutral faction' such as the elves -- some people are just created as neutral mercenaries, loyal to whoever pays them. But from what the last page said about what happens to neutral cities, it doesn't seem like you can just choose to become one (unless you're a faction leader, I guess, in which case you end up as one when your faction is destroyed.)

If there is a surviving faction leader, units other than the leader apparently remain active (e.g. the casters and dwagons that were with Stanley when Saline was put to the sword, the gwiffons that were with Jillian when Faq fell).

This makes the question of Wanda's situation even more interesting. Perhaps being (at least nominally) captured and turned to Stanley's service was the only way to not fall under Jillian's control once Faq fell.

In any case, it looks like even barbarians have leaders (everyone recognized Jillian as the person in charge of her peeps and so on, and she had the power to negotiate and accept pay -- she just wasn't recognized as a royal.) It seems likely she's still a 'side' in the technical sense, and still has the same power over everyone in her Barbarian faction that Stanley has over his, just without a city.

True; that's what I was getting at when I suggested that "head of a mercenary group" might be similar to "king/overlord of a normal side" as far as loyalty goes. In this case, Jillian doesn't seem to have any sapient followers, which renders some of these issues moot (and perhaps explains why she simply doesn't think about them).

What I like best about my theory is that it explains why Wanda gets so furious each time Jillian suggests that she turn -- we never really see her angry at any other point in the strip, but the two times Jillian has said that, Wanda instantly lost her temper.

Also true; the closest we've seen to Wanda getting angry in any other context was her reaction to Parson possibly booping up the Eyemancer link -- and that was much more restrained.

One corrolary of your theory is that Wanda's domination and Jillian's submission is, by Erfworld standards, literally perverted (not because of the BDSM aspects, but because it is an inversion of the world's natural power relationship).

[Lamech]

From all of Wanda's manipulating toward Stanley, such as telling Parson how to manipulate him, manipulating him herself it doesn't seem like she is in love with him, and since their are no overt signs of love, I think she does not love Stanley.
Although as she must have some reason to support Stanley or she would have turned, or mind controlled him or something. Plus, as SteveMB pointed out two of the times she got angry it was because Jillian suggested she leave Stanley, and the other time it was when Parson almost wrecked three extremely valuable assets. And she tells Parson the defenses were fired off to protect Stanley. So for whatever reason she seems to be highly loyal to Stanley. Hopefully we'll get to see why that is...

[SteveMB]

Plus, as SteveMB pointed out two of the times she got angry it was because Jillian suggested she leave Stanley, and the other time it was when Parson almost wrecked three extremely valuable assets.

It was Aquillion who pointed out the key part (that the two times we see Wanda really react is when Jillian suggested that she desert Stanley).

And she tells Parson the defenses were fired off to protect Stanley.

Also confirmed by the fact that Wanda sets off the air defenses immediately after Jillian states her intention to solve the problem by hunting down His Toolishness.

So for whatever reason she seems to be highly loyal to Stanley. Hopefully we'll get to see why that is...

Indeed.

[MattR]

Wanda wouldn't gain anything by defecting as Jillian has clearly chosen Ansom over her. They certainly wouldnt be able to continue their relationship like before as i doubt Ansom's the kind of guy who'd share.. especially with a 'commoner'.

It might not be about being loyal to Stanley so much as shes backed into a corner with options she doesnt like... so he's all she's got.

[SteveMB]

Wanda wouldn't gain anything by defecting as Jillian has clearly chosen Ansom over her. They certainly wouldnt be able to continue their relationship like before as i doubt Ansom's the kind of guy who'd share.. especially with a 'commoner'.

That's true now, but not when Jillian first (as far as we've seen) proposed that "both of us get out of here".

It might not be about being loyal to Stanley so much as shes backed into a corner with options she doesnt like... so he's all she's got.

As Jillian sees the situation, she's offering Wanda a better choice than being croaked or captured by Ansom -- even if taking the offer would bind Wanda to serve her by the dynamics of Erfworld, the apparent nature of their relationship would at least mitigate that. Wanda, obviously, doesn't see it that way.

[Richbin]

Wanda's relationship with Jillian is... complicated.
It contains a lot of history we are unfamiliar with, and follows an unfamiliar dynamic (domination/submission), but in essence, one that we can assume has existed for quite some time.

Jillian tried to get Wanda out of the context I surmise because she was trying to save her, not because she wished to alter their dynamic. She could see the writing on the wall, and wanted to extract her from Stanley the Worm's harmful influence.

The element we do not know about is what binds Wanda to Stanley in the first place - we know it is not a spell, and it probably is not love. It might well be gratitude (for rescuing her from FAQ), it might be the most she has ever been valued (Stanley NEVER talked to her as he did when she failed him), it might be the feeling of power she gets (from manipulating him and being the real power behind the throne - although i doubt this because of the exasperated tone she usually takes).
There is a mystery there, which hopefully shall be elucidated within the next few isues (in other words in book No1).

She has a lack of enthusiasm for all the different kinds of magics, but has been used as a back-up caster by a variety of lords in her past, i am sure (Stanley included), but her love is croakamancy, and she has found in tool a willing and unflinching supporter of her arts, and jillian could never replace that.

I suspect she also has a serious pride issue regarding her failure with Jillian. She was always able to manipulate her, and erred in her judgment royally in this case. She might feel the real need to atone.