Erfworld 119, page 107

[tomaO2]

That is a great explaination (which may or may not be right) as to how Stanley found FAQ. It does not explain why the predictamancer couldn't tell banhammer "dwagons will encounter all three cities on turn X". They shouldn't have been surprised.

Jillian was suprised. Some people at FAQ were suprised. The King or Predicamancer? Who knows?

However, the simplest explanation is that they did indeed know it was coming and made sure that Jillian was away when it happened. Why didn't they tell her or the rest of the kingdom? Do you really have to ask that?

Here is my question to you, you know someday you are going to die just as the FAQ residence did when Jillian was popped. However, do you want to know the exact day that you are going to die? Would you want to inflict that knowledge on another person?

Besides, if Jillian had known, she would have stayed to fight. That's just the kind of person she is. Unfortunately, doing so completely defeats the purpose of bringing her to life in the first place. Which was because the Predicamancer figured out that they were going to die someday, way back when. This was the only logical choice.

[kabbor]

Well, all we know is that there was, and possibly still is, an expert babarian predictamancer somewhere.
A Chekhov's Gun if ever i saw one. They will come into the story somewhere.

Now, we know that Parson has his mathamancy artifact: if he gets control of that predictamancer - if it actually Wanda, for instance (FAQ doesn't sound like a place that would have tolerated croakamancy, incidentally; Although why would Jillian have concealed such an important fact??) - GK and Parson would be a force to be reckond with.

[Zolem]

I have to revaluate my stance on the whole "Wanda is the Predicatamancr" theory from plausable to epileptic tree. "Wanda betreyed FAQ" is still high on my list of theories though.

[DarkNewton]

I have to revaluate my stance on the whole "Wanda is the Predicatamancr" theory from plausable to epileptic tree. "Wanda betreyed FAQ" is still high on my list of theories though.

Personally I'm still of the theory that Wanda's actually still acting towards the goal of saving FAQ. If she was being directed to serve the role of predictamancer, against her better wishes, and foresaw the downfall, she just as likely could have foreseen some of the major steps towards it's eventual resurrection through Jillian, which could have meant playing the various roles she had, such as pushing to interrogate Jillian to be sure that any time Jillian was captured by enemy forces she survived the ordeal, and then released. The suggestion spell wasn't there to allow her to spy, or remotely control her.. it was there to help keep Jillian on the path Wanda knew would have to be taken. Even when Wanda went all blammo during the last encounter with Jillian, just some of her escort was duced, not Jillian, sure it could be said that maybe Jill just made most of her saves and booked and it was just some of her weaker escort that bit it..

But you know, this is mainly all wild speculation at this point.

[Grubsnik]

Time to add in a little more TFHA.

1. Charlescomm were the ones who razed FAQ. Why? Both Charlescomm and FAQ were in the business of hiring out air support units as mercs. With FAQ out of the picture, he now controls the market. It's true that Jillian still has some units with her, but without a city, she can't pop any more troops.

2. Wanda was the predictomancer who foresaw this coming. Charlie and the Arkendishs thinkamancy should have no problems lifting the location from a captured FAQ-unit, making veiling moot.

3. Wanda made sure that Jillian was out of town when it would happen. Then sent a thinkagram to Stanley, offering to join his side, if he could save her and Jack. Most likely hiding in one of the non-capital cities, when FAQ fell.

Why? Stanley thinks he has divine mandate to owning all the arkentools. Charles has the Arkendish, so that means sooner or later Stanley will have to croak Charles, and Wanda wants to be right there when it happens.

Do i get a hat now?

[Oracle_Hunter]

Time to add in a little more TFHA.

1. Charlescomm were the ones who razed FAQ. Why? Both Charlescomm and FAQ were in the business of hiring out air support units as mercs. With FAQ out of the picture, he now controls the market. It's true that Jillian still has some units with her, but without a city, she can't pop any more troops.

2. Wanda was the predictomancer who foresaw this coming. Charlie and the Arkendishs thinkamancy should have no problems lifting the location from a captured FAQ-unit, making veiling moot.

3. Wanda made sure that Jillian was out of town when it would happen. Then sent a thinkagram to Stanley, offering to join his side, if he could save her and Jack. Most likely hiding in one of the non-capital cities, when FAQ fell.

Why? Stanley thinks he has divine mandate to owning all the arkentools. Charles has the Arkendish, so that means sooner or later Stanley will have to croak Charles, and Wanda wants to be right there when it happens.

Do i get a hat now?

Meh, too easily disproved.

FAQ was destroyed by Dwagons and Stanley hates Charlie. Also, it wouldn't explain Wanda's ridiculous loyalty to Stanley when all of his other Casters are a heartbeat away from supporting Parson for King.

If you can Handwave these objections, then maybe. Remember kids: a TFHA Theory shouldn't be too obvious but just plausible enough so that it can't be dismissed outright.

[Zolem]

Meh, too easily disproved.

FAQ was destroyed by Dwagons and...

Actually, all ti says is that there was a large flight of Dwagons, NOT that they were the ones to destroy the city. We just assume that they were...yeah I don't really suport the theory, but I enjoy refining them.

[Laurentio II]

Seeing as how Wanda could cast a findamancy spell, along with many, many others, It doesn't seem like the "class name" (ie: Crocamancer, Thinkamancer, Dirtamancer, etc) really means anything mechanically, but is just what that caster tends to do the most. Casters with multiple talents are probably pretty rare, Wanda being a rather rare case of rare, with lots of talent in many schools.

I don't like the theory of Wanda being the Predictamancer, but I noticed that Sizemore tried to study "Flower Power", that is in the same column of Dirtamancery ("Erf"). Wanda is a Croakmancer, employed Thinkmancery (suggestion, amnesia, and know a spell that cause headache), and is suspected of being a Predictamancer. This three magic specialization are all under Fate.
Could be that a caster is just on an axis, and is capable of using, or not, more than a school.

[The Old Hack]

Here is the quote. "There are some webcomics that want to fool the reader, and put a high price on unguessable twists; we actually just want the story we're telling to be understood."

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...49&postcount=5

Satisfied? Take this quote to heart. It's the key to figuring out how things will end.

*scratches head* It's strange, but I read the entire post through and nowhere found the part that stated, "Please note that henceforth tomaO2 holds sole, permanent and uncontestable right of interpretation and arbitration of all I have written." Maybe Rob just forgot to put it in there.

[DarkNewton]

I don't like the theory of Wanda being the Predictamancer, but I noticed that Sizemore tried to study "Flower Power", that is in the same column of Dirtamancery ("Erf"). Wanda is a Croakmancer, employed Thinkmancery (suggestion, amnesia, and know a spell that cause headache), and is suspected of being a Predictamancer. This three magic specialization are all under Fate.
Could be that a caster is just on an axis, and is capable of using, or not, more than a school.

You know, that's a really good observation, so in the fashion of the old West(end? I forget the exact name) games Star Wars RPG, their ability with magic is broken into a three aspects, and each caster has a stat that is identified in each axis which is basically raw proficiency with that axis. And eventually a caster will receive more training in one area then another dictated by the casters preference, but because she is most proficient with the Fate axis, she also shows considerable talent in the other disciplines along that axis..

hmmm.. very interesting

It also might tie into something Ansom said at one point regarding the pliers being aligned with fate, and that being beyond him. Not so much that he is a caster, but perhaps all units are aligned to a specific axis, which is an attribute useful mainly for each unit's reactions to specific types of magic..

Of course that's probably stretching it a bit thin.

[Laurentio II]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Indigo"]You guys also should keep in mind, as I said before, that Pclips has stated that he doesn't want an overly complex story and there are no huge twisted surprises awaiting us. Some authors like to trick their readers but that is not a goal for this one. Making Wanda the Predicamancer would be one of those "pulling a fast one" tricks that he said he did not want to pull.

Could be I'm not the smartest reader in this funny world, but Erfworld seems to me arealdy complex, and showed a good pair of twisted surprises. More, I know Pclips a little (Hi Mr Balder, sorry if I didn't finished the translation...), and I feel that his meaning of "simple" is different from that of most people.

More, I don't see how making Wanda the Predictamancer should be a "fast one". It would just be something that has not been anticipated ages before, but makes lot of sense. Just to say, we never seen uncroaked units in FAQ, and a Croakmancer would have been a candidate to follow mercenary units in combat (as he is useless otherwise).

Why something is to be told during the title sequence or magically became "a fast pull" (or an "ass pull", as other could say?)

[Partywhipple]

Let me use predictamancy:

Parson will tell Jack his name, restoring him to his full potential.
Jack will use a distraction to draw the warlords out of the choke point. BUT Jillian will remember that Jack can do that and return to the choke point. Good writing would have her go alone because the Transylvito forces won't believe her. Bad writing will have them go with her and Frak up the plan. I say bad writing because this would just be a repeat of her fraking up Parson's plan with the dwagons over the lake.
I'd like to think we'll see Stanley do some tricky things on his own. I do not believe anyone can go from infantry to faction leader without being very clever. The whole idea that he is stupid doesn't mesh with his history at all. I assume he is very cleverbut doesn't have a good mind for warfare tactics. Let's see some of this so we can get some investment in the character, please. Just having him angry and dumb is lame.

[Partywhipple]

Remember in the beginning of the story, way back, Stanley was using the hammer to break walnuts and some of them were turning into pigeons? Was this just a joke or to show that the hammer had some type of chaotic effect? If it wasn't just a joke I would wonder if the hammer might be able to shield the owner from Predictamancy. After all, chaos is what makes prediction hard. And, were I stanley and I knew this, I wouldn't EVER tell anyone about that power. This would explain how Stanley could attack FAQ without the predictamancer knowing.

[tomaO2]

*scratches head* It's strange, but I read the entire post through and nowhere found the part that stated, "Please note that henceforth tomaO2 holds sole, permanent and uncontestable right of interpretation and arbitration of all I have written." Maybe Rob just forgot to put it in there.

MAJOR EDIT:

Sorry Steve, you are correct. I thought he was accusing me of lying. Mainly because I got so angry I didn't read his whole post carefully.

Okay Hack, they stated that they want to tell a story not make unguessible twists. I don't know any other way to interpret that statement. Except to say that they are not going to toss things out completely from left field. There will be clues in what has been written as to how things will end. You're not offering an alternative, I doubt you really disagree with me. Don't get snarky.

[SteveMB]

You really pissed me off with your accusation that I lied, even though I gave you the proper link and it was written right there.

Er, what? All I saw was a disagreement about interpretation (expressed too snarkily, perhaps).

[tomaO2]

Could be I'm not the smartest reader in this funny world, but Erfworld seems to me arealdy complex, and showed a good pair of twisted surprises. More, I know Pclips a little (Hi Mr Balder, sorry if I didn't finished the translation...), and I feel that his meaning of "simple" is different from that of most people.

More, I don't see how making Wanda the Predictamancer should be a "fast one". It would just be something that has not been anticipated ages before, but makes lot of sense. Just to say, we never seen uncroaked units in FAQ, and a Croakmancer would have been a candidate to follow mercenary units in combat (as he is useless otherwise).

Why something is to be told during the title sequence or magically became "a fast pull" (or an "ass pull", as other could say?)

It's a fast one because there is nothing foreshadowing it. If Sizemore had not told Parson about combining Luckamancy with Mathamancy that would also have been a fast one. Furthermore, this story has talked again and again about how you are popped in cities and are stuck with that designation for the rest of your life. It would be a complete turnaround as I have already said. There is no free choice. You cannot chose your magic. Wanda knows many magics but is an amateur in them. She dabbles, she makes mistakes. One mistake would be the ruin of FAQ. As soon as she was popped she would have had to do this and preform flawlessly over the entire reign of Banhammer. Not possible. The learning curve would be too steep.

It makes no sense on any level that it could be so. You're not thinking logically. Your argument is "Jeez, that sounds like a good idea". Do better. Show me something real. Show me a single quote, one action that what you are saying is even remotely possible. If you can't, you're not worth discussing this subject with anymore in this thread. I have made my case, I'm done with it for now.

[Laurentio II]

Furthermore, this story has talked again and again about how you are popped in cities and are stuck with that designation for the rest of your life. It would be a complete turnaround as I have already said. There is no free choice. You cannot chose your magic.

I disagree on this opinion, that marginally is the big part of your assumption. Page 13 shows a quite plain discussion about the possibility of employ magic outside of nominal specialization.
I've not found the opposite horn of the dilemma, where the lack of choice is named or show. I'd be happy to see it.
Politely, if possible.

[tomaO2]

You don't even understand the difference between primary magic and and dabbling in magic. You skip the fact that "Wanda's" predicamancy would have had to be pitch perfect every time even though she would have had to undergo a trial by fire when she was first popped. You ignore that Croakamancy is her unit type. That there is no foreshadowing whatsoever that units can change their types and Wanda would have HAD to have changed her caster type because why else would Jillian refer to her as a predictamancer? You ignored my post in favor of your own cherished beliefs. I can't see how I could politely debate anything you have to say on the subject when you totally dismiss what I say. So I won't, it's pointless. You don't want debate, you just want to argue.

[SteveMB]

There is no free choice. You cannot chose your magic. Wanda knows many magics but is an amateur in them. She dabbles, she makes mistakes. One mistake would be the ruin of FAQ. As soon as she was popped she would have had to do this and preform flawlessly over the entire reign of Banhammer. Not possible. The learning curve would be too steep.

We know that casters' ability to learn magicks outside their existing specialty varies -- Wanda has been generally successful at learning a variety of magic types; Sizemore keeps trying but gets nowhere.

I'm not sure how the point that "One mistake would be the ruin of FAQ." enters into it. The theory in question is that Wanda was originally Faq's Predictamancer -- if so, then Predictamancy would be her primary specialty, and the risk that she'd make mistakes (particularly on a basic prediction like "outside units will enter the hex of X city on Y turn") is minimal. We don't know if she's ever made any mistakes with her currently preferred and declared specialty of Croakamancy; we only saw her practice it once.

I remain agnostic on the theory itself. If it's true, presumably a future page will reveal it unambiguously -- as per your quote, Rob is trying to tell a story that can be readily understood. If not, it's a misinterpretation of clues, or reading a false pattern out of "clues" that were never really there to begin with.

[Laurentio II]

You don't even understand the difference between primary magic and and dabbling in magic. You skip the fact that "Wanda's" predicamancy would have had to be pitch perfect every time even though she would have had to undergo a trial by fire when she was first popped. You ignore that Croakamancy is her unit type. That there is no foreshadowing whatsoever that units can change their types and Wanda would have HAD to have changed her caster type because why else would Jillian refer to her as a predictamancer? You ignored my post in favor of your own cherished beliefs. I can't see how I could politely debate anything you have to say on the subject when you totally dismiss what I say. So I won't, it's pointless. You don't want debate, you just want to argue.

What I notice is that I provided a proof of caster using magic outside nominal designation, while your post is full of "would" and theory about how a caster should not be able to. But we agree on one thing: the futility of having a debate with you.

Time to call a night for me. See you later, if strictly needed.

[tomaO2]

There are 2 versions of the theory. One is that Wanda learned how because she was popped as a Croakamancer in which case she would have had to learn a new specialty quickly and Two, that she was popped a predicamancer and changed her specialty later.

If 1, then yes, a trial by fire and a mistake would be fatal. Even if it is simple to guess where enemy troops will visit, which is not certain, as a non specialist, mistakes are far more likely and this system went on for a long, long time without a single unit EVER finding out. Also, she was somehow able to predict that FAQ would be destroyed.Hardly a simple prediction.

If two, how can you change? What evidence is there that you can change. It's so farfetched that I just don't believe any reasonable person can believe it, if they go by what is written. There is nothing that foreshadows such an event and everything we know implies the opposite.

[dr pepper]

Maybe you've accidently gone to the Getting Hit on the Head Clinic rather than the Argument Clinic.

[AgentPaper]

@toma2

So, your argument is, it's not going to happen because he hasn't told us it's going to happen....

Right.

I see your quote, and while you may have interpreted it as "We will tell you everything that will happen at least 20 times before we have it happen" then that's great. That doesn't mean it's true, though. It may seem all clear to you, but for me, it sounds more like: "You won't be looking at the comic upside down and re-reading it 500 times just to get the basic premise of the story", and it seems many others also take it this way, or don't know about it. So keep your opinion to yourself since it has nothing to contribute, and feel free to laugh your ass off at us when we're proven wrong. If you want to point out stuff in the comic that proves us wrong, feel free. But if you have nothing to say but "According to my interpretation of this one thing the author said at this time, it's impossible for this to happen, so stop guessing!", then you're just twolling.

No hard feelings or anything, I see where you're coming from. It's just not helping anything.

[/rant]

Anyways! Another TFHA theory:

Stanley did not destroy FAQ. Instead, Charlie, wanting to get rid of his opposition, does. He does not know where FAQ is, but he knows where Jillian is, and uses the Arkendish and thinkamancy to find out. Not wanting to start any wars, and hoping for a chance to recruit Jillian into his merc corps, he attacks FAQ, having a foolamancer (Perhaps the FAQ one itself, mind controlled, otherwise another) disguise the archons as dragons so that everyone (or at least Jillian) thinks it's Stanley attacking instead of Charlie. This would explain how Charlie got so many archons to Gobwin Knob so quickly, as well, if he has a base of operations in there somewhere, or has even taken over the cities for himself. If this is true (HAH!) then charlie has an even better reason to keep people out of the FAQ region than before, and would also explain why nobody has discovered the ruins of FAQ, since Charlie would have continues the predictamancer/foolamancer setup or found his own way to keep the place safe.

[tomaO2]

What I notice is that I provided a proof of caster using magic outside nominal designation, while your post is full of "would" and theory about how a caster should not be able to. But we agree on one thing: the futility of having a debate with you.

Time to call a night for me. See you later, if strictly needed.

And I acknowledged that proof that Wanda is capable of other magics on an Amateur level. Which only proves my point that you are the problem here, because you are incapable of doing the same. This is a board game. You're popped as a unit and that's what you are. Everything in this whole story shows that.

@AgentPeper: Fine prove it. Show me something that is completely out of left field. Show me an instance where foreshadowing was not used on a very important matter. Something that seems contrary what we thought we knew. The story is like three quarters done now. Find me something.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Could be that a caster is just on an axis, and is capable of using, or not, more than a school.

I know they are not casters, but i found funny that Charlie and Parson were 'linked' together due to Parson's Mathamancy offer and to Erf standards they are quite 'Weirdamancy'. I wonder what specialty does... it can't just be obscure pop references!

[fendrin]

And I acknowledged that proof that Wanda is capable of other magics on an Amateur level. Which only proves my point that you are the problem here, because you are incapable of doing the same. This is a board game. You're popped as a unit and that's what you are. Everything in this whole story shows that.

You mean the way that Stanley's class is still 'Piker'? Oh wait, it's not.

We know class can change.
We know 2 different ways it can change.
We can surmise then that there may be other ways it can change.

I wasn't going to post here today because I'm having a bad day and I didn't want to have a post reflective of your invective, but here you have it anyway.

[grumbleboom]

Quick question/thought. When in the timeline of things did Stanley get the Arkenhammer? Someone probably had it before him and could have used it to attack FAQ.

As Stanley is still an unknown in the attack on FAQ, it cannot be assumed that he was in control of the attack.

[fendrin]

Quick question/thought. When in the timeline of things did Stanley get the Arkenhammer? Someone probably had it before him and could have used it to attack FAQ.

As Stanley is still an unknown in the attack on FAQ, it cannot be assumed that he was in control of the attack.

According to Sizemore, he got it after he became a warlord but before he became Heir Designate.

[Lamech]

You don't even understand the difference between primary magic and and dabbling in magic. You skip the fact that "Wanda's" predicamancy would have had to be pitch perfect every time even though she would have had to undergo a trial by fire when she was first popped. You ignore that Croakamancy is her unit type. That there is no foreshadowing whatsoever that units can change their types and Wanda would have HAD to have changed her caster type because why else would Jillian refer to her as a predictamancer? You ignored my post in favor of your own cherished beliefs. I can't see how I could politely debate anything you have to say on the subject when you totally dismiss what I say. So I won't, it's pointless. You don't want debate, you just want to argue.

She is a talented thinkamancer. Wanda mearly lacks experience. She is a novice, that means she lacks experience. If she had practiced she wouldn't have screwed up. The differance between Wanda's croakamancy and thinkamancy is level of practice. (And possibly insane levels of croakamancy talent.) If Wanda had talent in predictamancy she could have done as well as any other predictamancer.
Also for all we know predictamancy is a pass-fail type thing, and if a spell is cast the answer is right 100% of the time. Or maybe skill affects level of detail, which was fairly low in regards to FAQ, just which city and when.

Finally Jillian would lie because if she with-held info that FAQ can produce multi-talented super casters, and they could all very well be captured by Stanley, she would be branded a traitor.

[Promakhonas]

You mean the way that Stanley's class is still 'Piker'? Oh wait, it's not.

We know class can change.
We know 2 different ways it can change.
We can surmise then that there may be other ways it can change.

Indeed. It's unlikely that a unit can self-motivate a specialization change - however, if a strictly hypothetical leader pops a hypothetical Predictamancer with an hypothetical affinity for Croakamancy, it's conceivable a hypothetical conquering warlord might "sidegrade" that specialization change. Hypothetically.

Also, toma, regarding the Chekhov's Gun: it's possible the reveal isn't imminent. If the reveal were to be in 120, okay, I see how you're justified in calling that somewhat out of left field. If, however, the foreshadowing of the reveal has yet to be laid down (and the current TFHA derives from a sniff in that direction), that would be reasonable. So an argument from "they don't toss things out of left field" is only applicable with regards to a reveal coming up soon - it doesn't can the theory with regards to the arc of the strip as a whole.