[SOD SPOILERS] Possible Implications of OotS' Discovering 'The Plan'?

[Euron]

note: heavy SOD spoilers to follow, perhaps slight possibility of future spoilers, as well.



Someone mentioned this in the Xykon death thread a little while back, and it got me thinking: If the OotS (Roy specifically) were to become aware of Redcloak's ulterior motives, what would the Order's reaction be?

Ramifications of 'The Plan' itself are self-explanatory, but for any of you who haven't read SOD and are still taking this upon yourself, here goes:

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There is no way to control a gate, for power itself. You can simply change its location, to anyway upon the planet, or in another dimension. The Dark One (the God Redcloak and the majority of the goblins worship, whom can be discusses in another thread) wishes to use this knowledge to sent the gate into the Gods' realms themselves, using this cosmic blackmail of a sort to even out the playing field for the gobbies.

Note: Xykon is unaware of this nuance, as well as every member of the OOTS (hell, anyone minus The Dark One, Redcloak, and Right Eye).

Hell, on that note, Xykon poses no danger to the world (on a larger scale) by that logic. If, or when, the two of them gained control of a gate, he wouldn't know what was happening, enough for Redcloak to take control (or, at least, it is assumed).

Let me state this: this is not a "oh, Recloak is such an awesome guy, so misunderstood" thread, nor am I trying to justify his actions/future actions. The question is:

How would the Order (as a whole, or individually) respond to this information (granted that they are given all relevant historical context)?

[NerfTW]

Probably the same way they're currently reacting. They know that there is a chance controlling the gate will fail and the Snarl will get loose.

Redcloak's actual plan also has a very real chance of letting the Snarl loose. The Dark One's backup plan is to hide with the other gods and have a say in World 3.0.


It wouldn't really change, they'd just have a better idea of Redcloak's motives vs Xykon's.

[Morty]

Hmmm... I've been thinking about it myself and I was going to make an exact same thread, but having not read SoD, I didn't feel I'm justified. Based on what I know, here's what I think OoTS reactions on discovering Redcloak and his god's true goals would be(note, however, that I haven't read SoD, so I might be rambling incoherently from this point):

Assuming he belives Redcloak, he's I think the most likely to be sympathetic to his goals, given his dislike of cliches the world is based upon and lack of respect towards the gods. He's less than likely to approve of Redcloak's and The Dark One's methods and actions, of course.
Elan's Chaotic Good, naive and good-hearted, so he's likely to feel sorry for the goblins. However, he's also a Dashing Swordsman and a bard, which means two things: he's very unlikely to belive the villain might have a semi-sympathetic goal and won't like the idea of denying future generations of heroes the hordes of disposable mooks, i.e goblins. And as with Roy, Redcloak's and TDO's methods are unlikely to suit him.
I'm not sure about her. She's not likely to give a crap about goblins' welfare and she considers Redcloak simply an enemy.
Sh'yeah. Belkar's not going to give a crap about Redcloak's goals and will likely find the idea of denying him easily justifable victims abhorrent.
Durkon is a loyal servant of Thor. He's never going to belive Redcloak, no matter what.
V is likely to find the very idea of making goblinoids equal to elves repulsive but might be tempted by the promises of power.
Now, this is what I think Order's reactions to Redcloak's goals would be. As for the Plan itself, I don't think it'd change much. It's still extremely dangerous to the world and needs to be stopped no matter why Redcloak is going through with this.

[RMS Oceanic]

Ooo, interesting situation, and one I would like to see later down the line.

Essentially, the Order will keep going, because deicide is still not a cool thing to do. I suspect that Roy, Haley and/or Vaarsuvius may come up with the plan of revealing this little "omission" to Xykon, and play him against Redcloak. My crack prediction is that it would make them realise the plight of the "savage" races, and work with progressive members of those races,

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like, perhaps, Right-Eye's daughter

, to make the world a better place.

[donkyhotay]

Xykon is (sometimes) smarter then he lets on. Hard to say if he really knows the details on controlling the gate. Also even if he can only move the rifts around he can probably do alot of damage with it. I mean imagine he moves around the (currently sized) azure city rift onto a battlefield and the snarl starts attacking. There goes one enemy army with no losses on his side. Also even if he can't make the snarl attack for some reason there is also the little issue in that the gate also allows him to destroy the world and although he doesn't want to do so NOW, he does mention he might if he gets really bored. From what we've seen of him so far, Xykon gets bored very easily.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html

[Linkavitch]

Order assassinates Reddie, and Xycon tries to make the gate attack them while they beat the crap out of him.

[Zaphrasz]

I always liked the idea of

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Xykon getting the last laugh here, revealing that he knew Redcloak's plan a long time ago, probably finding out sometime during his disappearance, and that while Redcloak may think the rifts cannot be controlled, Xykon has figured something out. It would certainly make Xykon look far more competent. Xykon was at his most awesome in Start of Darkness when he points out that he was prepared for a positive energy attack, reinforcing that there is a difference between not knowing and not caring.

[RMS Oceanic]

If the Plan works, Xykon won't be able to use the Snarl at all. The ritual specifically gives The Dark One the power to do that, and he's not about to let a human sorceror play with his bargaining chip.

[MReav]

I always liked the idea of

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Xykon getting the last laugh here, revealing that he knew Redcloak's plan a long time ago, probably finding out sometime during his disappearance, and that while Redcloak may think the rifts cannot be controlled, Xykon has figured something out. It would certainly make Xykon look far more competent. Xykon was at his most awesome in Start of Darkness when he points out that he was prepared for a positive energy attack, reinforcing that there is a difference between not knowing and not caring.

I think Xykon knows... I have this theory that he has some kind of connection to the phylactery, and has overheard any number of details Redcloak did not want to reveal. But as Xykon said, "There's a difference between not knowing and not caring".

[Lamech]

It gives the power to the Dark One, who is evil, and probably can't be trusted. Hmm...

Elan: Naive might trust the dark one
Belkar: Denies him xp? Will hate it.
Durkon: I'm not sure he won't know much about the Dark One, and he would probably want to help the goblins. Although he probably won't trust an enemy diety. So I'm saying he will want to stop this. Although he will probably support goblin equality.
V: He will want to try and get the power for him self. Regardless he won't want anyone taking that power.
Haley: She has seen what Redcloak did in Azure City. She'll think that "the plan" is lies when it comes to "equality". For that she will oppose even legitimate efforts to equality, and try to stop it.
Roy: He might want goblin equality, but he probably won't trust Xykon or anyone willingly associated with him.

As a whole the order of the stick will still try to stop Redcloak and Xykon, even if they do decide to later help the monster people.


Hmm... I bet Xykon does believe that the ritual will give power to the Dark One. And if it mearly allows him to remove the other gods well thats more than enough power to eliminate any opposition to ruling the world, or whatever the Dark One's goals are. Although does Xykon believe the Dark One will give Xykon anything? Why would he? He has racked up way to many goblin kills.

[David Argall]

Now the party knows the basics of the plan, which is to [mis]use the gates for evil purposes. So knowing the details is only going to change some tactics.

In particular, informing Xykon that he is being played can kill the plan very simply and quickly. Xykon might or might not kill Redcloak, but he would lose interest in the Gates and the world would be safe.

Now the idea that the party might become some sort of new deal for humanoids force is fantasy. Not only is that beyond their power, it is completely based on goblin propaganda. We have the humanoids routinely calling themselves evil and acting so. We have claims of humans attacking random humanoids, but we see Right-eye's village going unmolested for well over a decade despite being right next to a large number of humans. The evil forces are evil, not misunderstood or exploited.

[holywhippet]

In particular, informing Xykon that he is being played can kill the plan very simply and quickly. Xykon might or might not kill Redcloak, but he would lose interest in the Gates and the world would be safe.

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In Start of Darkness, Xykon placed a geas on the MITD which will compell him to attack Redcloak should he ever betray Xykon.

Xykon might lose interest in the gates, but he is still a chaotic evil, epic level lich sorcerer with a penchant for attacking things on a whim. The world won't exactly be safe as long as he's still around.

[David Argall]

There is a matter of scale here. Xykon, with help, might destroy a city a year. The Snarl, without help can take out the entire world in a half-hour. It still sucks if you are in one of the wrong cities, but for the average Joe in the average part of the world, the world is way safer.

[Morgan Wick]

Spoiler

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There is no way to control a gate, for power itself. You can simply change its location, to anyway upon the planet, or in another dimension. The Dark One (the God Redcloak and the majority of the goblins worship, whom can be discusses in another thread) wishes to use this knowledge to sent the gate into the Gods' realms themselves, using this cosmic blackmail of a sort to even out the playing field for the gobbies.

Note: Xykon is unaware of this nuance, as well as every member of the OOTS (hell, anyone minus The Dark One, Redcloak, and Right Eye).

I doubt Right Eye can still be said to know (present tense) of this, seeing as he's DEAD. Apologies if this is piling on.