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2008-10-31, 08:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Thanks for that, EvilDMMk3. It makes me feel better to know the reason, even if I think it's still a stupid reason -- not that CCF is stupid; I know that's how charities in general are obliged for various reasons to work a lot of the time, and that's stupid.
I did wonder when I saw that news post, and read about it elsewhere, why there was nothing actually quoting CCF on the matter -- everyone just seemed to see "Christian" and "didn't accept money from D&D/RPGing con" and assume that moral panic was the reason. I wonder if there's any way to get their response put up on the various sites (including this one) that have reported on this?I support paladins and the alignment system.
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2008-10-31, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Here's the letter I'm sending off. I changed it after I read the reason that was stated to be why they rejected the money.
I’m surprised at your organization’s decision to turn down the money donated by GenCon. As one of the people who made a donation towards that money, I am saddened by your decision. It was never the understanding by myself or anybody I know that attended the convention that your organization had endorsed GenCon. My understanding is that the donation was basically supposed to be a ‘In Memory Of Gary Gygax’ donation to your charity as your charity was one of his favorites.
It is not like GenCon is Crack Dealers Anonymous or some other sketchy organization that a charity might be afraid to have any association with. Like the good Christians you purport to be, why could you not simply accept the gift in the spirit it was given? We’re talking about starving children here.
I am VERY very disappointed in your organization and will seek to make sure any future donations of mine avoid your coffers.Last edited by Codo; 2008-10-31 at 08:32 AM.
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2008-10-31, 08:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Hm.
Now it sounds like a combo of "we have to jump through lots of legal hoops and stuff with donations" and "we don't do lots of endorsements, which this would have appeared to be; it was nothing specific with the con or Gygax or anything". But then, I may be wrong. I have the feeling that, one way or another, it wasn't really in the hands of the people who "made the call", as it were.
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2008-10-31, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Columbus
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
My 2 coppers, sent already via email
Greetings ladies and gentleman of the Christian Children's Fund,
I recently read an article regarding the fact that you declined a rather substantial donation from GenCon because they raised some of the funds by sales of products from the Wizard's of the Cost line 'Dungeons & Dragons'. I could go into a tirade about the abject foolishness of this sort of blind hate fueled thinking, but rather than do that. I feel I should point out a few observations to you about D&D players, Christianity, and hypocrisy.
- I am aware of the 'scare articles' that were put out in the 1970s and 1980s regarding D&D. Not one of them has one fact about the game, it's players, or the culture around it correct. But I doubt fact checking is in your agenda, as it usually gets in the way of the sort of blind hatred you like to show towards those you want to hate. Everyone needs an arch nemesis I suppose, and D&D players (who are much less likely to worship devils or demons than they are to worship comic books and junk food) will fit your requirements.
- As far as I have been taught, I understood it that Christians were supposed to be kind, understanding, and nonjudgmental, (I.E. What Would Jesus Do; Judge not lest ye be judged; Let he who is without sin cast the first stone; etc.) Don't you think, when you say you worship the Son of God, a being who had nothing but love in his heart for all men, that you give a mixed message by declining money from D&D players to feed hungry children because you dislike what they are and what they do?
- Money itself is an object that simply exists. It passes often through multiple hands. At some point, those hands might just happen to be drug lords, murderers, rapists, thieves, and many other sorts of miscreants. So if you have issue with where the money came from, aren't all donations potentially tainted? Claiming ignorance of where the money came from does not change the fact that it has more than likely at some point been used for/by evil people. So I submit to you that any donation you receive is tainted and you are in fact hypocrites for taking it. Since intent doesn't matter in your eyes obviously, I would assume you will from this point on only be accepting money from the US Mint yes? But then again, The US has been involved in wars (where people have been kill [remember: Thou shalt not kill?] so their money is tainted too by your logic. Perhaps you should not accept any donations at all, there's a chance it may be evil money after all.
Warmest regards,
TimLast edited by Pentegarn; 2008-10-31 at 08:41 AM.
Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!
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2008-10-31, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
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- Somewhere in NL
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Well, this is my own letter. Possibly strong, but that is what I truly felt I had to write.
Originally Posted by JoseBJoseB
o/` Ooooh, sweet mystery of liiiiiIIIIIiiife... o/`
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2008-10-31, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
It's still saying "We don't want any ties to a role-playing organization whatsoever. Even if it's just them giving us money." I can see how accepting money from a particular organization or event can be considered an "endorsment" of that organization. But how does such a one-sided deal dilute the charity's image unless the organization in question is unpopular?
The last line of that response is untrue. Rejecting a charitable donation does express an opinion on the source. It says, "We do not want to be associated with you in any way." And why should you be so picky in the source of simple money unless your opinion of the donor were negative?Last edited by Shhalahr Windrider; 2008-10-31 at 09:53 AM.
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2008-10-31, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Well, I wasn't about to scream myself hoarse in front of a mirror, or anything, but I didn't see the point to sugar-coating this. I suppose you have a point.
Anyways- the official line is that they didn't refuse the money because they are bigoted against D&D, but by implication, many of their donors are. This presumably lets them continue milking their... sadly unenlightened... donors for more cash than they would presumably otherwise raise. Perhaps regrettable, but there you are...
Project_Mayhem, huh... deja-vu.Last edited by Samurai Jill; 2008-10-31 at 12:36 PM.
The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast- "The GM is the author of the story and the players direct the actions of the protagonists." Widely repeated across many role-playing texts. Neither sub-clause in the sentence is possible in the presence of the other.
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2008-10-31, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Actually, seems they actually caught some flak a few years ago because they don't do that kind of thing.
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2008-10-31, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Hm. Poor folks seem to be getting it from both sides.
I mean, far as I can tell, the whole not taking the donation thing was really out of their immediate hands.
But hey, don't let that stop people sending them angry letters based on a single sentence of information.
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2008-10-31, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!
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2008-10-31, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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- The Cathedral of Flames
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I... I am really disappointed in this organization to claim to be Christian and then turn down perfectly good money because a bunch of misunderstood geeks raised it by playing D&D; I just don't think that that is something real Christians should do. I don't think we should send a bunch of angry emails, but I will send them some snailmail, maybe you all should too.
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2008-10-31, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Columbus
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I got the exact reply that was posted earlier. Which shows me they do not even read our letters and are simply copy pasting a response. However, I thought it would be amusing to reply anyway with this
OK, then answer me this? How can you take donations from anything at all? Someone gives you money to feed children, asks nothing in return, and you decline it because you somehow extrapolate that there is some sort of endorsement in the deal? I do not buy that. As a person who considers themselves a thinker, I feel there are far too many holes in this particular argument. You can claim it was to keep from appearing to endorse a convention, but who are you really trying to convince of this? It sounds to me like you are trying to talk yourselves into this because you want to hide from a reputation you earned from judging without getting all the facts about something (in this case D&D gamers)
EDIT: Wouldn't it be hilarious if I got the exact same copy/paste response to my reply?Last edited by Pentegarn; 2008-10-31 at 11:22 AM.
Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!
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2008-10-31, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Just wanted everyone to know that, as a member of the Christian Gamers Guild, I was very disgusted with the decision of the CCF. As a group, we have sent a fairly large number of email and snail mail messages to CCF, and all have received the canned response as well. I just hope that their actions haven't further tainted anyone's perception of true Christianity, the kind that isn't afraid to question "tradition" and hearsay, find the true answers, and steadfastly apply them to their life.
http://www.christian-gamers-guild.org/
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2008-10-31, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
As a Christian gamer, I'm disgusted by the CCF and this idioticness. Ironically enough, I canceled my monthly donations to them after two years just a month ago. They're going to receive a letter from a former client.
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2008-10-31, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Over there!
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
This is why I have chosen 5 charities and I stick to them.
- Royal British Legion, for former servicemen/women, their families and the families of deceased servicemen/women
- Ty Havan, a local children's hospice (they get all my charity shop stuff, I also shop at said charity shop)
- RNLI, ie the lifeboat people.
- Children in Need, BBC telethon that focuses on children's causes.
- Comic Relief, another (bi-annual) BBC telethon that spends 50% of its money in Britain and 50% in Africa.
Last edited by Evil DM Mark3; 2008-10-31 at 12:38 PM.
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2008-10-31, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Any indication yet whether they read further responses to the form letter or if it's as Pentegarn suggests and you just get a second copy? I've already got a first draft in my head, but I want to know if it's worth sending, as it specifically addresses points raised their form letter.
Last edited by Shhalahr Windrider; 2008-10-31 at 12:40 PM.
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2008-10-31, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2004
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- Bensalem, PA
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
For those of you sending letters and e-mails, I would like to make a suggestion. Please take this the right way...
Spell check before you fire off the e-mail or print the letter. Maybe it's because I do freelance editing, but I'm seeing lots of typos in the e-mails quoted in this thread. It'll only take a moment to clean it up, and doing so makes you look more professional, intelligent, and level-headed.John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2008-10-31, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
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- Sin City
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
At this point in time, they already have an automatic response to any e-mail sent to them, and most likely any letter recieved, they will also send a similar response back through the mail.
Honestly, if they don't want the money, forget them. Give it to someone else. There are always others out there who need it as well.
Now I don't write this to be mean or anything, nor am I an American critic or hater or any such thing, but it was their choice not to accept it. That is how the world is, and honestly, I doubt their is much we can do besides send e-mails/letters and get back automatic responses anyway.
That is my point of view on the matter, and I hope Fisher House Foundation put that money to good use.
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2008-10-31, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
+1, even though (or in fact partly because) I am one of those why made an error. I have real difficulties with words as it is but I should have run it by a spell checker. I doubt they are paying huge amounts of attention to it but an avalanche of badly spelled and error laden e-mails is not going to make them realize they have offended a large number of intelligent, articulate people now is it?
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2008-10-31, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Yep, yours is one of the ones where I spotted errors. Your last sentence is exactly why I bring up the point. Typos happen, but a flurry of misspelled and poorly written letters will just undermine the hobby in general, and act as "proof" against the claims that gamers are intelligent and thoughtful people.
John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2008-10-31, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
For all those who are taking their reply seriously, another bit to consider. Putting their name and logo on credit cards is fine... just not gaming conventions.
I know I'm continuing with my letters.Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-31 at 01:17 PM.
[CENTER]So You Wanna Be A DM? A Potentially Helpful Guide
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2008-10-31, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Seriously, I cannot for my life understand why D&D should be satanic. There are demons? Well, duh. You are supposed to kill them, right? Arcane magic? I don't see the problem. It's a fantasy game. Is fantasy evil? If you think so, then imagination should be evil, right? And therefore, free thought is evil. To all those people who have nothing better to do than to blame an innocent fantasy game for suicides and wathever: get a life. And don't let your witch-hunts prevent people in need from getting help.
Last edited by Athaniar; 2008-10-31 at 01:24 PM.
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2008-10-31, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
GNU Terry Pratchett
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Hong Kong
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2008-10-31, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I sent my e-mail before that thread was created. It was along the line of them being more evil than DnD could ever be (but I stayed polite, of course).
Don't get me wrong, but the reason you've quoted seems to me to be "we didn't want to be involved with a gaming convention. Don't take that as a sign we have something against gamers, though!"
So, yeah, no change as far as I am concerned. I too think that their main reason probably isn't their own opinion of DnD but the opinion of some big donators (or the opinion they think the big donators would have) if they accepted.
I'm hoping this will make some noise, though. I want them to feel that offending their right-wing donators would have been nothing in comparison. I hope they lose many donators over that, and that other charities will get that money.
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2008-10-31, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-31, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- York
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
1. Royal British Legion, for former servicemen/women, their families and the families of deceased servicemen/women
2. Ty Havan, a local children's hospice (they get all my charity shop stuff, I also shop at said charity shop)
3. RNLI, ie the lifeboat people.
4. Children in Need, BBC telethon that focuses on children's causes.
5. Comic Relief, another (bi-annual) BBC telethon that spends 50% of its money in Britain and 50% in Africa.
What was that 'Secret Policemen's ball' the Beeb showed recently affilated with?
Yay for that too!
*Although I've never heard of the welsh sounding one
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2008-10-31, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
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- Appalachian Mountains
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Personally, I'm not sending a letter or e-mail to those people. Instead, I'm e-mailing family members and friends, and letting them know that this charity doesn't want to accept money from their dirty game infected hearts and pocketbooks.
My family being chock full of gamers.
There are a lot of gamers. It stands to reason that many of them donate money to those people. Not anymore. Not only was their action an slap in the face to gamers around the world, but an insult to the memory of the man who started it all, Gary Gygax.Aratos Tell
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2008-10-31, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
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Hong Kong
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2008-10-31, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Indeed. This who I have been e-mailing, or calling, about this. There are plenty of worthwhile charities out there that won't feel their image is tarnished by taking our money. Someone already mentioned World Vision. I'll also mention UMCOR. I'd advise including in any letters to UCC a mention that you will be donating through other charitable organizations.
Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-31 at 02:15 PM.
[CENTER]So You Wanna Be A DM? A Potentially Helpful Guide
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2008-10-31, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008