132 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 119

[headhoncho]

We don't know what the RCC warlords know about croakamancy. But they can do the math and they have serious reasons to be disappointed in the course of the siege of GK. Duke Nozzle didn't say that he thinks that they cannot win, but he did have doubts regarding the advisability and need of continuing the assault on GK, particularly under Ansom.

What I'm trying to say is that it's a binary analysis. Can undead on walls damage a flier? If the answer is yes, then Ansom should be in trouble. If the answer is no, then Parson should be in trouble.

The RCC warlords (and it's not just Duke Nozzle, the others agreed that Ansom was toast in a matter of moments) ought to know the answer to that question. Parson ought to know the answer to that question. And yet right now, there seems to be a major disconnect in perception that (IMO) can't just be explained by being demoralized or having a lack of knowledge of the most basic undead.

[DevilDan]

I don't think it's a clear win for Wanda, she's obviously about to have a nervous breakdown from controlling all those undead. (and her previous Jillian problem) Ansom may be a little tired, but he's also super pissed.

Higher-quality uncroaked units have shown that they can operate independently (or, at least, that they don't need direct control from a croakamancer).

Also, we still don't know how anything in GK is going to defeat those archons on the following turn. Nothing about the chats with Charlie suggests he intends to restrain from violence.

After defeating the RCC, simply offering to switch sides would be a way in which Parson can fulfill his duty to Stanley and protect GK.

GREAT eye, I didn't notice that at all. This battle is shaping up to be better and better! Stack of seven vs. stack of one, I was thinking the whole time that Wanda and two warlords would go with the three unipegataurs and the archon against the siege. This is great!

Good eye, indeed. Offhand, I'd guess that if they are undead units then they are warlords rather than the lower-quality uncroaked Dora and Webinar. But Plot makes everything malleable...

The RCC warlords (and it's not just Duke Nozzle, the others agreed that Ansom was toast in a matter of moments) ought to know the answer to that question. Parson ought to know the answer to that question. And yet right now, there seems to be a major disconnect in perception that (IMO) can't just be explained by being demoralized or having a lack of knowledge of the most basic undead.

Again, the RCC warlords think that he may be able to hold off long enough for the wall to be breached, given that he's an experienced and powerful warlord (with artifact bonus and flight on his side). And he is fighting against relatively weak and ineffectual uncroaked using a weapon that is instantly "fatal" to most uncroaked.

What Parson couldn't have done with just a half-dozen dwagons...

[Aquillion]

I wonder -- can she attack his carpet? Or try to snatch that, making him fall, pliers and all, into the huge mass of undead infantry? Sure, they're strong vs. undead, but he can only swing them so fast (he's only lasted this far because he flies and can engage selectively.)

[Godskook]

But they can do the math and they have serious reasons to be disappointed in the course of the siege of GK.

Erfworlders can do math?

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What I originally said:

If Erfworlders could do math, why is there a whole subject of magic devoted to the subject?

[Rhuna_Coppermane]

This... is going to be interesting.

[DevilDan]

Erfworlders can do math?

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What I originally said:

If Erfworlders could do math, why is there a whole subject of magic devoted to the subject?

Figuratively...

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*ba dom dom TISH*

(My "rimshot" onomatopoeia is sadly deficient.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Erfworlders can do math?

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What I originally said:

If Erfworlders could do math, why is there a whole subject of magic devoted to the subject?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

I'm pretty sure they can, but any useful math would surely fall into the categor of mathamancy.

[SteveMB]

What I'm trying to say is that it's a binary analysis. Can undead on walls damage a flier? If the answer is yes, then Ansom should be in trouble. If the answer is no, then Parson should be in trouble.

We know from the siege raids that led flying stacks can selectively engage unled ground units. That means Ansom is safe from uncroaked other than the ones he's currently engaging... which may or may not have some small chance of scratching him a bit before he dusts them.

Also, archers are an exception to the above rule; GK's archers may (as far as the RCC knows) be able to whittle Ansom down eventually, even if they apparently haven't done boop all to him yet.

Of course, that's now become moot; Ansom is now up close and personal with some fairly powerful uncroaked units boosted by Wanda's direct-leadership bonus. It's possible that the other RCC leaders' worries were that the enemy would spring something like that (after all, the story of Ansom's life lately has been a series of nasty enemy surprises punctuated by the single success of finding the wounded dwagons).

[headhoncho]

Of course, that's now become moot; Ansom now has fairly powerful uncroaked units with Wanda's direct-leadership bonus in his face. It's possible that the other RCC leaders' worries were that the enemy would spring something like that, not about slow attrition to the wall uncroaked.

It's possible, but I hope you'll agree unlikely. From the tone of their comments at the time (and I can't access them directly since it was in the last strip that is temporarily offline), it seemed pretty clear to me they were concerned about his solo attack in its own right, and not some secret ace in the hole.

Look, I understand all about fog of war, and differences of viewpoint, and morale, and all the rest. I'm a wargamer myself. But the level of the discrepancy between:

1) RCC Leaders - Ansom is toast in moments, we need to rush to support him for his gambit to have any hope of succeeding, and even then he's probably still toast; and

2) Parson - Ansom seems assured of breaking through that wall alone and the only thing that can stop him is our previously unrevealed air force that the RCC has no knowledge of;

is large enough that good storytelling practically demands some explanation, and not just some inferences by the reader. I feel similarly with the chokepoint battle, although again I'm reserving judgment and giving the authors the benefit of the doubt until we see the results of that on the Transylvito side.

[Ganurath]

Ayyyyy, too tense.

Personally I want to see Ansom win this. Both sides are incredibly interesting and well told, I just prefer the 'good guys'.

I find those last two sentences contradictory.

Also, I just has a thought: Would the arrival of Stanley, an awakened Jack, and a fully healed red dwagon impact the math of the Archon presence?

[fendrin]

I think Wanda's headgear foreshadows the timely return of the dwagons.

It reminds me an awful lot of Maleficent from Disney's Snow White.

What I'm trying to say is that it's a binary analysis. Can undead on walls damage a flier? If the answer is yes, then Ansom should be in trouble. If the answer is no, then Parson should be in trouble.

The RCC warlords (and it's not just Duke Nozzle, the others agreed that Ansom was toast in a matter of moments) ought to know the answer to that question. Parson ought to know the answer to that question. And yet right now, there seems to be a major disconnect in perception that (IMO) can't just be explained by being demoralized or having a lack of knowledge of the most basic undead.

I said this in the last thread, but was largely disregarded. Ansom can selectively engage the uncroaked, and is powerful enough to one-hit KO them individually.

As I said in the last thread, Wanda's fliers are the key. Interestingly, though, she has opted to engage him directly rather than having one of her puppets absorb the counter-attack. That could be because Wanda is *not* a tactician (unlike Jillian, who has had her minions absorb enemy attacks numerous times). On the other hand, Wanda leading a stack into battle has been foreshadowed for a long time. She must at least know some of what she is doing.... maybe she can have her mount take the blow, and then 'hijack' the carpet... or maybe she has some sort of magical defense that will keep her alive. I just don't see her putting her life on the line if there is another option.

EDIT: Meganinja'd!

1) RCC Leaders - Ansom is toast in moments, we need to rush to support him for his gambit to have any hope of succeeding, and even then he's probably still toast; and

2) Parson - Ansom seems assured of breaking through that wall alone and the only thing that can stop him is our previously unrevealed air force that the RCC has no knowledge of

The only thing I can figure is that the RCC leaders are expecting some sort of magical attack, such as the one they saw against Jillian's group. Keep in mind that even though *we* know that many or most of Jillian's forces survived, the RCC leaders only saw the mega-booms.

I feel similarly with the chokepoint battle, although again I'm reserving judgment and giving the authors the benefit of the doubt until we see the results of that on the Transylvito side.

This is an easy one for me- Stanley lost so many dwagons because:
1) He split from their stack. They means the ylost his direct bonus, which had been factored into The pre-battle estimates.
2) He cut and ran. If he had stayed and put his considerable offensive power against the TV forces, he would have cut done much more damage to the TV forces, likely taking out at least one of the leaders (Ceaser, Jillian, and Vinny).

Also, I just has a thought: Would the arrival of Stanley, an awakened Jack, and a fully healed red dwagon impact the math of the Archon presence?

Oh yes, it would. However, the general lack of fliers is still GK's biggest weakness against the archons.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

@Ganurath: I don't think so (i think Charlie has more Archons that he actually needs to take the city). I do think a Croakamancer attuned to the pliers would.

@headhoncho: I think you are reading too much into it. Ansom's forces were decimated and he was charging alone to take the walls/city. Such a tactic, if it wasn't backed up by the army, would be suicide. One warlord conquering a city by itself? Yes, he can kill undead by itself but GK still has some air defenses and archers can keep on shooting him while he kills some undead each round. Eventually he would wore off. So i don't think they were implying that he would immediately fall but that he wouldn't stop until he did so they should not waste breaking the wall.

[DMcCoy1693]

Wanda leading the Charge. Ansom's toast. Parson calculated the odds beforehand and ate a full day's supply of Luckomancy (remember how powerful this combo is). Parson lost a battle before because he didn't antisipate how powerful stacking bonuses is. He's not going to make the same mistake twice.

[Lamech]

As I said in the last thread, Wanda's fliers are the key. Interestingly, though, she has opted to engage him directly rather than having one of her puppets absorb the counter-attack. That could be because Wanda is *not* a tactician (unlike Jillian, who has had her minions absorb enemy attacks numerous times). On the other hand, Wanda leading a stack into battle has been foreshadowed for a long time. She must at least know some of what she is doing.... maybe she can have her mount take the blow, and then 'hijack' the carpet... or maybe she has some sort of magical defense that will keep her alive. I just don't see her putting her life on the line if there is another option.

She may be very good at combat as well as magic or simply have a great number of levels either way, she could simply outclass Ansom in melee. She is probably using a powerful magic weapon, and probably powerful magic armour. She could easily have some sort of magical defenses. Or she is two seconds away from crushing Ansom with magic.

Hey that battle cry? She seems far more verbose than when talking to Jillian. Erm... could that be a incantation for a I-rip-your-soul-out spell?

Also, I just has a thought: Would the arrival of Stanley, an awakened Jack, and a fully healed red dwagon impact the math of the Archon presence?

It may cancel the Arkendish's powers and free the Archons. Jack will give Parson some new toys to play with. I think that the Archons will be the climax, not Ansom and his charge.

I feel similarly with the chokepoint battle, although again I'm reserving judgment and giving the authors the benefit of the doubt until we see the results of that on the Transylvito side.

Stanley really screwed up on this one. He should have just smashed Ceaser with the hammer or a dwagon. Jillian thought it was unwinnable, but Ceaser was supposed to change it. So a dead Ceaser... they lose the chief warlord hex bonus, and the chief warlord global bonus. Oops.

[Godskook]

What I'm trying to say is that it's a binary analysis. Can undead on walls damage a flier? If the answer is yes, then Ansom should be in trouble. If the answer is no, then Parson should be in trouble.

I'm still betting that the rule "ground units can't attack units with flying" works more along the lines of "ground units can't reach units with flying". Since Ansom isn't using his flight to his advantage and actually flying out of reach of the ground units on the wall, I'm betting that they can engage him at Parson's discretion or as if he were a ground unit, which ever applies as far as leadership is concerned.

is large enough that good storytelling practically demands some explanation, and not just some inferences by the reader. I feel similarly with the chokepoint battle, although again I'm reserving judgment and giving the authors the benefit of the doubt until we see the results of that on the Transylvito side.

Does "Parson knows what cards he is holding, while the RCC doesn't" satisfy you? It satisfies me, at least enough not to call it a plot hole. Parson has been intentionally grandstanding the whole time. Everything he has done has been to make the RCC think he has a larger hand than he does. He's bluffing them, and we know it is working. That their understanding of Parson's capabilities is different from Parson's is natural.

[plainsfox]

As for arrows, the Gobwin Archer troop is trying to do something. That carpet has a few of them embedded in it.

I wonder if Ansom would be smart enough to try to attack Wanda's unipegataur instead of attacking her?

[Vreejack]

Edit.

Ah, that was dumb. I mistook the back of Ansom's head for Wanda's shield. I thought it was interesting that the radishes were upside-down, but Ansom's head is much more interesting than a shield. Now we have real suspense.

[fendrin]

I just noticed Wanda's shield. Inverted radishes. I think this one is personal.

That's not a shield, that's the back of Ansom's helmet. They are upside down because it's a continuation of the stripe on the front. A top view would show them all in the same direction.

[Maelore]

The armor Wanda is wearing looks very familiar but I can't quite put my finger on it, anyone have and idea of what its from?

Also, I really like the Archon giving Parson a raspberry in panel 4, shows some personality.

[lovelyluthien]

oh my god... This will all end in tears, I know it. Gah, how shall I endure the wait? Wanda vs. Ansom is enough to cause severe anxiety!

[headhoncho]

@headhoncho: I think you are reading too much into it. Ansom's forces were decimated and he was charging alone to take the walls/city. Such a tactic, if it wasn't backed up by the army, would be suicide. One warlord conquering a city by itself? Yes, he can kill undead by itself but GK still has some air defenses and archers can keep on shooting him while he kills some undead each round. Eventually he would wore off. So i don't think they were implying that he would immediately fall but that he wouldn't stop until he did so they should not waste breaking the wall.

I really wish we had the last strip available, because my strong impression was that they were saying that he would fall very, very quickly.

But yes, it's entirely possible I'm reading too much into it.

Does "Parson knows what cards he is holding, while the RCC doesn't" satisfy you? It satisfies me, at least enough not to call it a plot hole. Parson has been intentionally grandstanding the whole time. Everything he has done has been to make the RCC think he has a larger hand than he does. He's bluffing them, and we know it is working. That their understanding of Parson's capabilities is different from Parson's is natural.

I'm not calling it a plot hole. I'm making a distinction between good storytelling and great storytelling.

And again, I don't get the impression they are just demoralized (although they are) or overestimating Parson's abilities (I didn't get that at all from the last strip). My impression was that Ansom was nuts for going into a suicide mission alone, and that it would result in a quick death. One that might be averted if they acted quickly to bring in the siege (or that his death wouldn't be "wasted" as Pepe indicates above), but that he was in gigantic trouble no matter what.

[hewhosaysfish]

First "Jack", now Wanda...
Do you think it's a universal thing that 'mancers lapse into poetry after a mental trauma?

[Welf]

She may be very good at combat as well as magic or simply have a great number of levels either way, she could simply outclass Ansom in melee. She is probably using a powerful magic weapon, and probably powerful magic armour. She could easily have some sort of magical defenses. Or she is two seconds away from crushing Ansom with magic.

Maybe she's using the same tactic as I do with my favorite RPG magician; she buffed herself with some short-time spells that increase her defense and give her damage reduction; and while she's occupying Ansom the undead have the opportunity to attack Ansom. And if Ansom takes the undead first, Wanda can fry him from near.

[Once-Over]

I may be looking too deeply into the whole "turn based" deal but how is Parson moving troops when it is not his turn or is he just choosing to engage them now (w00t warlords)? On a similar note, I think that the "rush" to get the siege moved up is more a story component than a game mechanic. Furthermore, I believe that Godskook makes a good point when saying that Parson may have been bluffing. Assuming the RCC can only see that the walls are swarming with undead not necessarily how powerful they are their reactions would be justified.

[Prince_Rohan]

It is exciting.

Ansom is no match for Wanda's fashion sense.

But seriously, is anyone?

[DougTheHead]

Look, I understand all about fog of war, and differences of viewpoint, and morale, and all the rest. I'm a wargamer myself. But the level of the discrepancy between:

1) RCC Leaders - Ansom is toast in moments, we need to rush to support him for his gambit to have any hope of succeeding, and even then he's probably still toast; and

2) Parson - Ansom seems assured of breaking through that wall alone and the only thing that can stop him is our previously unrevealed air force that the RCC has no knowledge of;

You're assuming that their is no disconnect in time between the two reactions. The Rainbow Coalition was thinking that Ansom was crazy because he was going to go up and engage a thousand uncroaked singlehandedly. They figured that this would lead to Ansom's death, and acted to prevent it. We haven't heard from them since Ansom first started flying up the wall.

And we don't hear from Parson until Ansom has lasted quite some time on these walls, engaging the enemy with minimal damage to his mount and none to himself. Not only are things looking significantly better for Ansom since he first charged up the wall to cries of "you're crazy!" (or the Erfworld equivalent), but we're looking at things from Parson's perspective. He can't continue to burn units at this rate for one target, even one as valuable as Ansom- he has the Rainbow Coalition and Charlie to worry about, and needs to conserve troops in order to survive the next few turns. He has archers that can hit Ansom, and have already come close a few times, but it's not worth the cost in troops. So as far as his strategy goes, Ansom can't be dealt with by the uncroaked troops.

So with the gaps in time and perspective between the two comics, it seems clear to me that Ansom *can* eventually be croaked by Parson's archers and uncroaked, and eventually would be if his allies weren't bringing up seige, but that the cost would be so high as to make such a strategy unfeasible.

[Caledonian]

As previous injured -mancers' statements have included references or outright quotations from William Shakespeare, I tried to identify Wanda's impromptu poetry.

My searches came up empty. I think this is original verse.

Quite striking verse, too. I would have constructed the rhythm of the ending slightly differently, but it's really very well done.

[headhoncho]

So with the gaps in time and perspective between the two comics, it seems clear to me that Ansom *can* eventually be croaked by Parson's archers and uncroaked, and eventually would be if his allies weren't bringing up seige, but that the cost would be so high as to make such a strategy unfeasible.

It's a totally fair point. I'm always happy to reserve judgment until the next strip. Having the RCC folks marvel that he's doing much better than they thought would help resolve the situation in my mind (although it would also serve to boost Ansom's judgment at the expense of the rest of the RCC warlords... not necessarily a bad thing, though).

[rman]

Not flyers cannot normally attack flyers. Probably unless engaged in melee. So flyers with range can only be engaged by ranged weapons or other flyers.

Ansom is a flyer engaging in melee. I would say that should any ground units survive his attack they would be allowed a counter attack. But as they dust on contact their is no chance of this. Thus he is relatively safe.

Wanda's flying units will possibly get to attack him first as he has already used his "engage" option for the turn.

Wanda's units
1) better than average, she was being extra careful when making them
2) in the same hex as wanda bonus
3) in the same stack as wanda bonus
4) in the Gobwin Keep garrison hex bonus
5) on the wall bonus probably does not apply to flyers
6) in the same hex as chief warlord bonus
7) if there is a bonus for number in 1 stack vs number in the other stack
8) wanda can use her magic to keep the undead going

[fendrin]

It's a totally fair point. I'm always happy to reserve judgment until the next strip. Having the RCC folks marvel that he's doing much better than they thought would help resolve the situation in my mind (although it would also serve to boost Ansom's judgment at the expense of the rest of the RCC warlords... not necessarily a bad thing, though).

Not sure if you saw my response above, it was in an edit so it may have been overlooked.