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Thread: The gods are Liars
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2012-03-20, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-21, 02:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
Last edited by AceOfFools; 2012-03-21 at 02:57 AM. Reason: Clarity
I consider myself an author first, a GM second and a player third.
The three skill-sets are only tangentially related.
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2012-03-21, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
There's a laundry list of unknowns here (spoilers include details from Start of Darkness):
Spoiler
1. Are the OotS-verse gods capable of easily (or with moderate difficulty) recreating the gates, thereby removing the immediate threat that the Snarl will be released? (probable answer given the usual power level of D&D gods--yes);
2. If the answer to 1. is "yes," are they capable of doing so in a way that won't let someone like Redcloak control the Snarl if he gets control of a Gate rebuilt by the gods? (no likely clear answer here--the nature of the Snarl itself might result in any working Gate allowing control of the Snarl);
3. Are the gods actually aware of the danger posed by Xykon, Redcloak, and the exploding Gates? (They're sure not acting like it, are they?)
4. If the gods aren't yet aware of the danger, but become aware in the near future, would they be likely to react by whacking the Dark One (assuming that the evil gods stand aside due to the threat of the Snarl to all of them), or is such an action unthinkable due to the possible risk of creating *another* Snarl in the fighting? (hard to tell--the gods were apparently ready to kill the Dark One after his ascension before the evil gods intervened, which would seem insane if they truly feared setting loose another snarl).
5. Is reasoning all this out kind of difficult largely because the OotS-verse gods are kind of clueless dolts most of the time? (Well, yes--Tiamat might win the prize here for not taking advantage of her prophetic abilities and whispering into her Oracle's ear: "tell the angry momma black dragon just to kill the bleeping elf and don't mess around with epic revenge.")
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2012-03-21, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
"In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
"Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."
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2012-03-21, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
I unspoilered the things that have appeared in the online comic by now. Redcloak spilled his beans (to everyone) during the speech with Tsukiko.
Obviously they cannot fiddle with the rifts OR the gates. Or they would already have done so.
2. If the answer to 1. is "yes," are they capable of doing so in a way that won't let someone like Redcloak control the Snarl if he gets control of a Gate rebuilt by the gods? (no likely clear answer here--the nature of the Snarl itself might result in any working Gate allowing control of the Snarl);
So "controlling the Snarl" never entered the equation at all.
3. Are the gods actually aware of the danger posed by Xykon, Redcloak, and the exploding Gates? (They're sure not acting like it, are they?)
Like... Miko Falling, Azure City being sacked (and under the massive glowing thing), three gates blowing up... if they did not hear all that they must be dead already. As Durkon still gets spells, it is save to assume the gods are still around and as such are aware what is going on.
Tiamat must have a clue (as the Oracle works through her).
4. If the gods aren't yet aware of the danger, but become aware in the near future, would they be likely to react by whacking the Dark One...
Also, the Dark One is not actually the problem. The Rifts in the Universe to a locked-up godkiller are.
Apart from that, the gods very probably are aware of the danger or at least of the problem.
5. Is reasoning all this out kind of difficult largely because the OotS-verse gods are kind of clueless dolts most of the time? (Well, yes--Tiamat might win the prize here for not taking advantage of her prophetic abilities and whispering into her Oracle's ear: "tell the angry momma black dragon just to kill the bleeping elf and don't mess around with epic revenge.") [/spoiler]
We have no real idea how the Oracle works, if there are Rules the gods are bound to or even what Tiamat's agenda in all this is. Maybe she hopes that Redcloak will succeed and that the Dark One uses the Snarl to nuke some of the good gods?Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!
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2012-03-22, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
Cool, in that case, my guess is:
SpoilerThe Snarl is not really a god killing abomination, nor does it unmake those who fall into it. The Snarl is a rift to another dimension and Earth 1.0 is still there with all theGreekEastern Gods ruling it. The Order of the Scribble got their facts wrong because they didn't learned it from the gods. They learned the Snarl existed and that once released Earth 1.0 dissapeared and they assumed that the Snarl was unmaking it.
But the Dark One was tricked by Tiamat and Rat. Somehow, the Dark One's plot works in their favor.
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2012-03-22, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-22, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
We already know that something isn't correct, possibly due to deception. The planet inside the rift, the inconsistencies in the history as presented from each side and the nonsensical nature of the OotS' breakup and legacy all point to unreliable narrators and fragmentary story. We don't have the whole truth, enjoy the ride.
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2012-03-22, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
Last edited by Winter; 2012-03-22 at 01:48 PM.
Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!
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2012-03-22, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
Ineffable are the games of the gods. And, trying to work out what's on their minds is probably worse.
We don't know the lies from the truths or the agendas from the mistakes.
Myself, I'm content to Read And Find Out.
But, I'm guessing we're talking about as big a snarl in various motivations as we are talking of a Snarl in continuity/ continuities.
Mind you, I like the idea of a Rift calmly hiding its little self at the bottom of an ocean trench somewhere. Suddenly, being a giant squid doesn't look all that safe, even without whales in the equation.'~:. F5 Camper With Muscle-Memory Issues .:~'
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2012-03-26, 10:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-27, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
Meh: some gods, maybe. Others have more class...
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players*, to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time."
*I.e. us.
— from Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett.
Although, don't ask me who wrote that bit. It feels Pratchettesque, but it's rather hard to tell for sure.
I only steal from the best.Last edited by Euodiachloris; 2012-03-27 at 08:44 PM.
'~:. F5 Camper With Muscle-Memory Issues .:~'
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2012-03-28, 04:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
And do you know which author said that gods play Chutes and Ladders--with greased ladders?
(Also Pratchett.)Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-03-28, 04:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
The gods actually play strip poker. They're a rambunctious lot.
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2012-03-28, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
Don't forget Chess.
Spoiler
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2012-03-28, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
You're forgetting the whole 'ineffability' thing that gods are so big on.
The reason nothing they do ever seems to make sense is because we have no clue what their motivations or constraints are.
In particular, I suggest considering: what would be the opportunity cost to the gods of intervening more directly in the fight over the gates? Off the top of my head:
- The OOTS would miss out on a lot of XP
- The world would be short one epic story
- Elan might not get his happy ending
- Humans would get the message that there's nothing for them to worry about, every li'l thing's gonna be all right, because if anything ever gets too hairy the gods will take care of it
- Conversely, other humans will get the message that the gods are really scared of these 'gate' thingies, and might start to think along D&D player lines ("if it has hit points, it can die").
We can only speculate what importance the gods might attach to these and other considerations. Perhaps they know that, unless humans (and demi-humans) are allowed to have their own epic stories of triumphing over adversity, they'll soon forget all about 'gods'. Or perhaps some of them really like Elan, and consider that a world in which he can't earn his happy ending is a world that's not worth saving."None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain
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2012-03-28, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-29, 05:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
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He wouldn't think so.Last edited by martianmister; 2012-03-29 at 05:58 AM.
Spoiler
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2012-03-31, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The gods are Liars
And also, assuming everything we've been told is accurate, the Gods have the option of actually unmaking the world and remaking the Snarl's prison at a later time if the worst happens. They can survive the destruction of the world, they've already done so, and are inherently less motivated to do something than those who's very existence would end if the Snarl were unleashed.
Basically, the Gods have an extra option. Everyone else doesn't.Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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