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2012-03-31, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
And it should be noted that unlike the other splats, there's an IC reason for a five-hundred (or even a thousand) year old Alchemical to still be at Essence 5- as an Alchemical goes towards Essence 10, their permanent Clarity rises, and while that brings them more in touch with Autocthon, it also takes them out of touch with humanity, and a good many Alchemicals don't want that.
It's why there aren't more Colossi or Metropoli/Patropoli around. A lot of Alchemical Exalted, once they get to the point where they could go over to Essence 6 (or Essence 8, when it comes to upgrading to a city)... choose to divert xp intolearningbuilding more Charms instead.
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2012-03-31, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
A minor note, Essence 2-5; unless you're playing with Scroll of Heroes' Merits and Flaws system, you start with Essence 2, and there's precious few ways to get it lower.
Terrestrials are Dragon-Blooded.
It fixed a number of things, but there's still more than a few glaring holes or otherwise-exploitable stuff...
That's part of the problem; the other problem is that while there's a very solid physical build that can be had, the most one could say of a mental or social character is that the characters in question would have a handful of useful tricks with little or no synergy to them, rather than a proper suite, and that would be the exact extent of it.
Also, the bit about "Solar Charms do (X) and only (X), while Lunar Charms get to be weaker, but more applicable," is a lie. It's surprising how many such Lunar Charms have a horribly narrow focus.
The biggest problem with Lunars, though, is the fluff.It is inevitable, of course, that persons of epicurean refinement will in the course of eternity engage in dealings with those of... unsavory character. Record well any transactions made, and repay all favors promptly.. (Thanks to Gnomish Wanderer for the Toreador avatar! )
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2012-03-31, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Fair Folk would indeed be a horrible choice for a first character. Besides some fairly complex mechanics, using them throws you headfirst into the metaphysical weirdness of the setting.
Anyway, with Fair Folk eliminated, I'm thinking Infernal sounds like a reasonable choice for my a non-Solar option, mostly because they seem interesting, but not terribly complex to use while learning the system.
I'm seeing is that several people have said some of their main mechanics are non-functional, which, obviously, makes me leery of trying to use one. That said, I'd like a bit more elaboration on exactly what parts don't work, if possible... If the specific parts that are borked turn out to be ones I'd be unlikely to care about using anyway, that's obviously going to be less of a problem.
...although, if you ever want a laugh, go pick up the 1E Lunars book.
Dragonblooded/Terrestrials also sound interesting, but given what's been said, I'm not entirely certain how they'd work if I ended up with the only one of them in the group, given that their thing at least seems to be teamwork with others of their Exaltation, and I'd prefer to avoid constraints like that when picking my second option.
After that, in descending order, my picks would be Abyssals (mostly for backstory reasons),
Sidereals (I'm not too keen on fate-ninjas, but messing around with fate does sound fun...),
...although note that up until recently, Sidereals were almost unplayable. You really need the Scroll of Errata if you want to play one.
and Alchemicals (I have a fondness for cyborgs, but I'm not too sure about the whole 'eventually turning into a city' bit), with mortals tossed in about the middle somewhere.
Alchemicals are awesome, in any case. I'd give them a try.Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2012-03-31 at 10:09 AM.
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2012-03-31, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Originally Posted by Mr. Bookworm
The most useful analogy I've found is that Fate = physics. Fate makes sure that heat isn't cold, that doors lead to the next room and that light gets hindered by solid objects. It's probably really unhealthy for people who cannot generate their own substitute for this (such as many Exalts can) to be outside Fate for too long.Quoth the raven, "Polly wants a cracker."
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2012-03-31, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Okay, so, Exalt types...
Solars: Solars are the most powerful of the Exalted. Kings of the world by the mandate of the Unconquered Sun, and such. Their powers tend towards the straighforward. A Solar does not waste time in florid stuff - he, like the commercial said, "just does it". Need to dodge something? Seven Shadows Evasion, he dodges it, no matter what "it" is. Need to hit something with a gun you're holding in your mouth, from three hundred miles away, in the middle of a hurricane, while playing a balalaika? Yep, just does it. And so on.
Abyssals: Chosen of death. They have Solar Exaltations perverted towards death, so they're pretty good at killing things and dealing with dead things. If it is a thing, an Abyssal can kill you with it, be it a weapon, a piece of music, or a letter, and they're unparalleled at dealing with ghosts and other deathly entities. However, they have a bunch of Dark Overlords trying to control them and make them destroy the world forever, and if they ever care about things or start promoting life in any way instead of ending it, the Void entitites from where they draw their power start acting up and causing them grief. Being an Abyssal is pretty tough, and angst is frequent among them.
Lunars: Lunars have been, historically, somewhat schizophrenic, as different writers have had different ideas of them. To some, they are Conan-esque warriors with shapeshifting powers. To others, they are the guardians at the edge of the world, keeping out and stopping Meschlum's creations and similar brain-breaking things from destroying what little sanity is left in Creation. For some others, they are rape-happy barbarians and werewolves. In any of the cases, they are a splat of shapeshifting, tricky people who see form as a suggestion rather than a baseline - a Lunar is never unarmed, because any part of his body can be turned into a weapon with a thought.
Sidereals are... well. Basically, the Men in Black, if the Men in Black had Kung Fu instead of high tech and if they had a million aliens attacking constantly while being unable to recruit more people. They are a secret force that manipulates the world to keep it working, and make sure that nobody remembers after the fact. They are James Bond and Agent J rolled in one package, but ridiculously overworked. Their powers can get rather strange, at times - a Sidereal can wait in ambush hiding in the metaphysical space between the seconds in an hour, only to pop out and beat you unconscious with a martial arts style that embodies the platonic ideal of blueness.
Infernals I'm not going to go into, because honestly they annoy me and I wouldn't give an impartial view ^^u.
Dragonblooded are, individually, the lowest powered Exalted. They make up for this by there being easily at least ten times as many of them as every other type of Exalt put together, and by them being really good at teamwork. The Dragonblooded are soldiers, and work best in units, empowering each other and becoming an impenetrable wall of spears. They are also the only Exalted that can pass their power by blood, and so they have a focus on families and Houses that other exalts lack. Their powers are elementally themed - if you want to throw some fireballs or bend some Earth, this is your splat.
And then there's Alchemicals. Alchemicals are basically robots with human souls, Champions chosen to protect and serve the mortal civilizations of Autochthonia. They are basically state-sponsored superheroes in a communistic, industrial society. They defend their world against a corruptive cancer that is eating it, advance their societies' technology and knowledge, and so on. Their powers tend to be rather physical, and while their bodies can't hold an unlimited number of these physical powers, they can swap between differently-built power sets.
I think I got all the Exalted splats.Last edited by Drascin; 2012-03-31 at 10:55 AM.
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2012-03-31, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Quite.
The most useful analogy I've found is that Fate = physics. Fate makes sure that heat isn't cold, that doors lead to the next room and that light gets hindered by solid objects. It's probably really unhealthy for people who cannot generate their own substitute for this (such as many Exalts can) to be outside Fate for too long.
...although note that almost everyone in the setting has a Fate-equivalent that keeps the world working as usual for them, even if they are technically outside of fate. The Underworld has the Calendar, Autochthonia has the Design, and Malfeas has Malfeas telling reality to sit down, shut the **** up, and work in a logical fashion.Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2012-03-31 at 11:19 AM.
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2012-03-31, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
It's worth noting that Lunars are mechanically sound, if boring. They have all they need to function, even though a lot of it is either a.) solar charms, but worse, or b.) focused into One True Path builds, like Pretty Kitty social or Relentless Lunar Fury/Deadly Beastman Transformation physical.
This might sound bad, and it is, to some extent, but it is a sight better than Sidereals, who, until basically three weeks ago, were basically unplayable.The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2012-03-31, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Remember that Infernals game I asked about?
We need a Storyteller first, but I made a recruitment thread.Last edited by aetherialDawn; 2012-03-31 at 12:03 PM.
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2012-03-31, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
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2012-03-31, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
First Edition Lunars were supposed to rape everything in sight, from what I'm led to understand. Especially people who used technology.
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2012-03-31, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
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2012-03-31, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
They weren't a villain splat at the time. They were horribly miss-managed on all sides, but they weren't supposed to be a villain splat when that was made.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
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2012-03-31, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Part of the problem was they C/Ped large swaths from an anthropology textbook.
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2012-03-31, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
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2012-03-31, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
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2012-03-31, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Can someone give me a bit of help? I can't for the life of me figure out what the sky is supposed to be. The Daystar material seems to imply it just kind of fades out into the Wyld but could also just be referring to the Crusade flying in from all directions, among other things. It would make sense if it was a dome like in Yu-Shan (and Manual: Nocturnals), but I can't find anything that really points in one direction or the other.
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2012-03-31, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
...golly, marry me? Please?
(eyebrow raise)
Well yeah, but also-
...well, that. Plus there's also the fact that while they're beyond humanity, they have human souls. A lot of humans would go O_o at the idea of being a city, or even a giant mecha, so stay at low essence cause it's comfortable for them.
Malfeas is the best king.
That aspect SHOULD have been dropped, but hasn't been dropped well, efficiently, or entirely.Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-03-31, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
As far as I know, the actually physical nature of the sky is only addressed in the homebrew Nocturnals material.
"Can you do science to it?"
"I can do science to anything."
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2012-03-31, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
It is inevitable, of course, that persons of epicurean refinement will in the course of eternity engage in dealings with those of... unsavory character. Record well any transactions made, and repay all favors promptly.. (Thanks to Gnomish Wanderer for the Toreador avatar! )
Wanna see what all this Exalted stuff is about? Here's a primer!
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2012-03-31, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
All I know is that it's supposed to be a physical thing. Kind of like a dome where the stars are hanged. Like a big snowglobe. But how it works or whether it slides into the Wyld or what... no idea.
(As a note to the newbie, this is a joke. Malfeas is more or less the platonic, cosmic ideal of the terrible, tyrannical boss ).
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2012-03-31, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
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2012-03-31, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Well, he's more like a king who rules by right of his strength (there was a Primordial that was king, then Malfeas/the Empyreal Chaos came along and usurped him). Until the exalted turned him into a Yozi, then the meaning of the word "tyrant" became changed to match his image.
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2012-03-31, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Continuing this, it's important that you take things having to do with Primordials very literally. Malfeas the dimension, Malfeas the Demon City, Malfeas the Brass Dancer, Malfeas the Mausoleum, etc are all the same "person." His previous identity, the Empyreal Chaos was King of the Titans because he was King of the Titans. That's the extent of the logic involved; it's like how a human is a human because that's just objectively what they are. The previous king, Mardukth, was only king because he was so powerful none could deny him. The reason why the Exalted are such a big deal is because the EC could not lose, even to Mardukth, but they defeated him anyway. Similarly the EC was the Holy Tyrant, because "tyrant" originally meant someone who usurps government. Malfeas is the Devil Tyrant because the Exalts understood "tyrant" to mean a dictator who rules with an iron fist.
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2012-03-31, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
To be honest, I'm convinced that removing all the elements of "antagonist splat" from Lunars was a poor decision. Infernals and Abyssals are both presented largely as "antagonist splats" in their own books, and Dragon-blooded and Sidereals tend to be presented that way outside of their own, as do raksha.
Solars are presented as basically perfect heroes, but with great potential for abuse of (and corruption by) their power.
Terrestrials are presented as basically elemental heroes, with their power turned to propping up a corrupt edifice that nevertheless keeps Creation safe.
Sidereals are presented as basically manipulative heroes, who are underappreciated and overworked as a fact of existence.
Abyssals are presented as basically horror heroes, who will have to slog through tragedy and pain to purify themselves.
Infernals are presented as basically alien heroes, who will have to squeeze their humanity and see what remains.
Alchemicals are presented as basically state heroes, who defend an inefficient system because it's the best chance humanity has.
Lunars are presented as... um.
Lunars are presented as basically animal heroes, who build societies with their magic to prove that the world doesn't need societies built by magic?
Alright, Lunars don't have a well-defined theme, this isn't news. My point is that even Solars, the baseline protagonists of the setting, are generally presented with this edge of "when you turn the world on its head, things will fall out of its pockets". Also known as the "holy **** he knows Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe no-one talk to anyone" effect.
Even Alchemicals, who are the most mortal-friendly Exalt type in the game, have the twin prods of "1984 was a guide to a good government" and "TETSUOOOOO" poking at their backs.
Lunars, by contrast, are presented as possibly the most white-hat splat in the game. They save Creation from the raksha, they constantly live on the borders of the world to better defend it, they build better societies for mortals because they recognize that it'd be better if the world didn't need them, they're looking for the returned Solars to help return them to their rightful place, their superpowered evil side was caused by that nasty Usurpation and can be perfectly suppressed by magical silver tattoos, lah lah lah. Plus all that animal-totem spirit-of-the-world garbage that isn't really supported anywhere else in the game's metaphysics but suggest "good guy" to anyone who really really enjoyed Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
Now, the manner of this presentation doesn't help, at all. It could have been done a lot better (basic tips like: if you're presenting a splat as awesome cool guys, don't make Raksi and Ma-Ha-Suchi its most visible elders). But the fact remains that, out of all the splats, Lunars are the ones who tend to lack the normal double-bladed presentation.
This being the splat whose most basic power, shapeshifting, requires that they hunt someone down like an animal over a period of hours and eat their heart. What the hell.
Solars are heroes. Lunars are the monsters at their back. Acknowledge this, and things become a lot easier from a design perspective.Last edited by Revlid; 2012-03-31 at 07:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mr Bookworm
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2012-03-31, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-03-31, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2012-03-31, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-31, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Who is Saber? My fantastically huge ego has knowledge of whom you speak of.
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2012-03-31, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-31, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!
Take King Arthur, make it so that the legends were wrong about her gender, and then make her one of seven contestants in a war for the Holy Grail, which actually isn't the Holy Grail and is corrupted besides.
Oh, and her partner/summoner has a hero complex so badly that his own future self wants to kill him because of it.
Watch Fate/Stay Night for more information.
...yeah, that was kinda obvious.
Fine! Other Servants from Fate/Stay Night: discuss. What Exalted types, and what Castes do you think fit them most?