OOTS #861 - The Discussion Thread

[coineineagh]

Quick prediction while I'm here: While Malack is wandering around, he's going to run into V. And then the fun starts.

V also established a bit of a rapport with Malack before.
Not enough to get him any special treatment like Durkon, though.
If they do come to blows, it will be very wordy indeed.
Perhaps Malack will hear V's 'confession'.

[Killer Angel]

Ah...


I'm curious to see what Malack will do when he'll arrive... well, luckily the mummies are now out of game without trouble.

[Iruka]

.
Therefore, saying that it's all set up because Xykon "depends heavily on undead" is indisputably incorrect.

Well, he depends heavily on being undead.

[Krim]

What feat allows that? And great comic. Thanks Giant!

Great Cleave. At this point, Roy probably deals 2d6+19 (7*1.5 STR, +5 weapon, +4 Greater Specialization) damage per swing. Throw in Undead bane (2d6+2), and maybe 5 points in Power Attack, and you are looking at 40+ damage, more than enough to one-shot the mummies.

[coineineagh]

I also noticed that Zzt'dri was prepared to face an archer this time

[Incom]

V also established a bit of a rapport with Malack before.
Not enough to get him any special treatment like Durkon, though.
If they do come to blows, it will be very wordy indeed.
Perhaps Malack will hear V's 'confession'.

"Hey, I'm the LN-ish cleric of a god of death!"
"Hey, I inadvertently killed all the Draketooths and now I'm feeling guilty!"
...

[coineineagh]

With respect to the grammar issues: Panel 2 is definitely an oversight, of which I've seen a few in the past in this comic. It's no big deal, because as was said: Your brain will fill in the missing word.

"Suitable to" is definitely grammatically correct. As was pointed out, if you insert "the task of" after the phrase, it will make more sense. The Giant probably chose this wording to emphasize Malack's learned and elitist manner of speech. He is withdrawn and sheltered, and gets most of his language from old tomes with arcane style of expression.

Jumping to the conclusion that "suitable for" is the correct and only way to express things, is in fact a mistake on the part of the poster. But I doubt he/she would be willing to admit to this now. Calling another out for a grammar error, while the cause is in fact your own limited knowledge of grammar, is quite embarassing. Not to mention the value judgements about the comic that followed. Uncalled for.

It's also a bit [dare I use the word?] ironic...

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Marrethiel]

I don't think Roy's sword is Holy becuase according to the SRD it has to be a good aligned crafter. The swordsmith started to offer Roy a way around the extra damage to undead which isn't something I'd normally associate with that alignment.
It is more likely I think that the weapon is a genuine Artifact. It has a long history (handed from Father to Son), has "a bounty of starmetal" and was crafted after an extensive quest for a specific purpose.
Also, from a meta game perspective, it makes sense to give the player a powerful weapon that can defeat the Big Bad but not so powerful to make other tasks trivial.

The critical theory still holds reasonably well with me. The mummies would have been helpless so Roy would have been auto critting them. Roy would likely have the improved crit feat. Maybe the artifact can also chose when it deems the drama of the swing to be appropriate. This idea does fit well into the story line. IMHO.

For a guess... I think Roy is finally going to be using Elan effectivly, some how... I'd put him against the enemy mage myself. Elen knows spells and would probably be quite good and locking a spell caster down. I wonder whether Roy's 18 int should have made the connection as to who the fighter is, if so then he would put Elen up agains't T and then come in for a Flank attack and Grapple or Disarm. Also, Slay Living would be perfect on the enemy mage as it is a fort save.

[willpell]

Isn't starmetal supposed to deal extra damage to outsiders, with the undead part being an addition of Rich's part? The green glow probably indicates when the extra damage is being dealt.

I had no idea starmetal was a real D&D thing; I thought Rich made it up.

[Antonok]

I had no idea starmetal was a real D&D thing; I thought Rich made it up.

Complete Arcane pg 114ish.

The Green Star Adept PrC is based around it.

[Smolder]

I also noticed that Zzt'dri was prepared to face an archer this time

The Shield spell has been in Z's spellbook for a long time...

[DougTheHead]

What's cooler, Tarquin the 30th level fighter (or whatever he is) with a staggering attack bonus, a million feats and a bajillion gold, or Tarquin the shrewd warrior and manipulator who uses his wits and considerable-though-not-demigod-level power to get whatever he wants?

Um, the first one. With the staggering attack bonus and million feats. That's way more badass. He's still a shrewd warrior and manipulator who uses his wits and power well, but if he's epic-level he's that much more of a threat. Just because someone has a ton of power doesn't mean they all choose to use it like V.

[Peelee]

Um, the first one. With the staggering attack bonus and million feats. That's way more badass. He's still a shrewd warrior and manipulator who uses his wits and power well, but if he's epic-level he's that much more of a threat. Just because someone has a ton of power doesn't mean they all choose to use it like V.

Gnome Alone: What's better, A or B?

You: BOTH!

That annoyance aside, the latter is far cooler. You seem to equate "cool" with "stupidly overpowered."

[Kish]

The Shield spell has been in Z's spellbook for a long time...

And it's a spell Zz'dtri would prepare for Vaarsuvius (specifically, for Magic Missile), not for an archer; +4 to AC stacked on the equipment of a wizard who doesn't focus on AC is trivial at Haley's level.

Complete Arcane pg 114ish.

The Green Star Adept PrC is based around it.

That said, starmetal as described in the comic functions differently than that starmetal, so as far as the metal now composing part of Roy's sword goes, I'd stick with "Rich made it up."

[Ghosty]

Enjoyable strip. Some thoughts from it and this thread:

Mentioning that the steel door is 'air-tight' prevents Malack from Wind Walking around it.

I really wonder what Elan's doing. Despite having said earlier that I'd expect every spellcaster in an Illusion-heavy lair to have True Seeing up, one thing Elan could do if he didn't want to Sing, could be to cast an illusion of V onto Tarquin. Yeah, T'll see through it, but Z won't. And Z won't be be able to hear T telling him to, "Stop shooting at me, you idiot!" It's a way of indirectly Dominating the opponent's mage---and getting him to wear down the tank/leader---without having to deal with his pesky Spell Resistance. Then T Vorpal's Z into Drow chunks, and we move on.

I think T is rolling up onto Belkar. I do not think this will end well for Belkar. Despite T's threatening to kill Nale, I don't think he'll actually go through with it. And not because of whatever silly knowledge or pull Nale thinks he has with Team Evil.

I don't remember who wrote it in the #860 thread, but I like the idea of T waiting until most of Nale's team is toast, then pulling off the mask for the big reveal. It beggars belief that Roy and Haley, never mind Durkon, haven't put 2+2 together and figured out that 'not-Thog' = Tarquin. Nevertheless, I am interpreting they haven't, because of Roy's "mystery cleric" statement. If they knew they were fighting T, they'd know the cleric was Malack. Anyway, I can see the big reveal, then, of course, TE shows up and hilarity will ensue.

The answer for, "2nd toughest extant NPC besides Xykon?", is probably Serini. Girard, too, if there's a failsafe 'Resurrect our Founder' trap near the Gate. Which, no doubt, V will trigger by 'knocking wood'. FWIW, I'm in the camp of "not quite Epic, but damned close" for T, with Malack being 1-2 levels behind him. The difference, since they started adventuring at about the same time(?) is that T's picked up lots of XP from his manipulation of the different kingdoms in that part of the world. I'm guessing that he's not Epic, because we haven't seen any Epic feats/abilities, have we? Now, if Malack is only 1-2 levels behind, then shouldn't we expect to see some 8-9 Level spells coming from him soon? Do you think T has a way to summon the rest of his adventuring party? Say if, e.g, the Tarrasque makes an appearance?

One-shotting multiple mummies seems pretty impressive, but believable when you go through the math like Krim and erewhon have done.

[rewinn]

Where's Elan?

He should be warning Haley NEVER to say "I think this is going pretty well". That ALWAYS leads to an ax-weilding killer charging out of the smoke!

(That said, Tarquin seems unlikely to kill Elan outright, or his girlfriend. I'm looking forward to the Big Reveal!)

I had no idea starmetal was a real D&D thing; I thought Rich made it up.

Star metal is a staple of fantasy literature at least as far back as Dunsany's 1924 classic The King of Elfland's Daughter (well worth reading for itself and for campaign ideas.)

Perhaps Malack will hear V's 'confession'.

Good point. V really needs to talk with a high-wisdom someone to help figure out the enormity of the Familicide. A cleric of a god of Death may be a good choice, if the two are not otherwise committed to killing each other.

I also noticed that Zzt'dri was prepared to face an archer this time

Heh. Isn't this first-level Shield, the all-purpose wussy defense? It pretty much confirms Z doesn't have much against archers (although to be fair, it could be that Z may be concerned about hand-to-hand combat as well, since there's a dwarf waving a hammer around.) Shield may also be easier to cast since it's so low-level; Z may be concerned about fizzling due to deafness (...not being a party to last thread's analysis of the improbability of another fizzle...)
At least Z isn't shouting like an idiot and drawing fire. If the ceiling heights were as they appear from the drawing, this might have been a good time to fly and bob up to the ceiling where it is unlikely that Haley would be shooting arrows into the smoke. With a little luck, the smoke would be thinner there, Z would see H first and fire a spread of photon torpedoes.

[Tathum]

Been reading through this thread and I had to put in my own two cents in regards to the joke behind the comic title...

In the last panel, Roy glances up, apologizing to the spirits of the Draketooth family for cleaving their bodies in two. He specifically states that, "I know it LOOKS bad..."

It's a common setup for jokes along the lines of, "you think that's bad? You should see the other guy!"

Which takes us back to the Roy's intended audience, the Draketooth spirits. The full joke would essentially be, "you think what I did to you guys right now was bad? You should see what we just did to Girard!"

It's a reference to probing that "dry and crumbly 'tailbone'" a few comics prior. And now I feel I just sucked all the humor out of it by explaining it in such detail...

[Capt Spanner]

Enjoyable strip. Some thoughts from it and this thread:

*SNIP*

It beggars belief that Roy and Haley, never mind Durkon, haven't put 2+2 together and figured out that 'not-Thog' = Tarquin. Nevertheless, I am interpreting they haven't, because of Roy's "mystery cleric" statement. If they knew they were fighting T, they'd know the cleric was Malack. Anyway, I can see the big reveal, then, of course, TE shows up and hilarity will ensue.

*SNIP*

As far as they're aware Tarquin / Malack and Nale want each other dead. It's probably easier to imagine Nale went to a tavern and recruited a new fighter and cleric than it is that he is working with a mortal enemy. Especially given Nale's love of causing pain for quasi-imagined slights.

[jere7my]

Which takes us back to the Roy's intended audience, the Draketooth spirits. The full joke would essentially be, "you think what I did to you guys right now was bad? You should see what we just did to Girard!"

It's a reference to probing that "dry and crumbly 'tailbone'" a few comics prior. And now I feel I just sucked all the humor out of it by explaining it in such detail...

Nah, it's talking about what happened to Roy's pelvis when he was a corpse. Roy says, "They can totally fix it when they raise you guys." The title adds, "You should've seen what they did to his pelvis" — i.e., Roy's pelvis got banged up when he was dead, then was fixed when he was raised.

Bringing up Girard's pelvis doesn't fit with Roy's intention of reassuring the Draketooths' ghosts that the damage to their bodies is not as bad as it looks.

[kickassfrog]

I may not be the first person to say this, but I love the irony as how everyone's been concerned the mummies will be a threat to the party when they get taken out by precisely 1 attack.
Other than that, good to see the order are back on top. Except Tarquin is still active.

[Fish]

I'm really glad Rich hasn't shown us every single weapon, armor and spell upgrade for the last 4-5 levels. How tedious would that be? He also hadn't shown Haley fencing Crystal's jewelry, I presume for the same reason: stats and gear don't build tension. Character sheets don't build character. Story does.

[lio45]

What I just can't figure out is how these errors consistently get by the author's editor before going into print. If he doesn't have an editor, he needs to take some of that $1.2 million dollars from Kickstarter and hire one. And this from a guy who makes grammar jokes in his comic!

Hire an editor? That would be an epically stupid way to piss money away...

First off, when you say "before going into print", you're missing the fact that the comics get automatically corrected before going into print, as they are posted online and read by tens of thousands of readers for months before they actually go into print.

When there's a typo in the comic, usually, it gets pointed out extremely quickly in the comic's thread by several people in the thread's very first pages -- most of whom start their post by "I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to notice this, but..." -- and have no fears, that typo does NOT reach print.

So, we're Rich's free, volunteer collective editor. And don't worry -- we never miss anything.

[rewinn]

...When there's a typo in the comic, usually, it gets pointed out extremely quickly in the comic's thread by several people in the thread's very first pages -- most of whom start their post by "I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to notice this, but..." -- and have no fears, that typo does NOT reach print.

So, we're Rich's free, volunteer collective editor. And don't worry -- we never miss anything.

Clever! We are "crowdsourced" editors, and paid in a currency The Giant has in plenty: entertainment.

[Burner28]

What an awesome strip!

[Grape Starburst]

I really wonder what Elan's doing. Despite having said earlier that I'd expect every spellcaster in an Illusion-heavy lair to have True Seeing up, one thing Elan could do if he didn't want to Sing, could be to cast an illusion of V onto Tarquin. Yeah, T'll see through it, but Z won't. And Z won't be be able to hear T telling him to, "Stop shooting at me, you idiot!" It's a way of indirectly Dominating the opponent's mage---and getting him to wear down the tank/leader---without having to deal with his pesky Spell Resistance. Then T Vorpal's Z into Drow chunks, and we move on.

I was expecting some sort of illusion usage from Elan to take advantage of the confusion from Haley's smake and Durkon's Holy.

[THeBigZ]

Great comic!

[Peelee]

Hey everyone! So I recently was on the site kickstarter, as most of you may know it is a site used to fund projects that everyday people make up. Our own Rich Burlew used it to start the reprinting of the OOTS comics, well now I recently found people who are trying to get money for a D&D documentary. Oh sure some of you may be like, "Oh man some boring documentary." But no their really is a quite compelling story behind the making of this legendary game! So I suggest you all check it out and help to make this movie a reality...
Here is the link:
unlinked

From the Forum Rules:

Advertising/Linking
As noted above, commercial (for-profit) advertising is not allowed on GiantITP.com. However, you ARE permitted to post about or start threads advertising non-profit websites; either charity events or merely amateur/fan sites that do not sell anything. Please be sure to observe the rules governing Spam and multiple-thread cross-posting, however, and make sure your plug is in the most appropriate forum (usually Friendly Banter).

[Smolder]

Our own Rich Burlew used it to start the reprinting of the OOTS comics

You don't say...

[Cynric]

Not that it would have too mmuch impact on the fight either way, but I'm really starting to Wonder where Elan is?