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2014-04-22, 11:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
I think Wee Jas is the most complex god-thing , within D&D with many facets of her story line, instead of just being a common ideal given a face and name like other gods seem to be.
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2014-04-22, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
I don't think I'm learned enough to say she's the most complex, but the gamemakers have definitely given me enough material on her to make her my favorite deity.
For the past two years, inevitably, one of the characters in the games I've made have had some dealings with her, making her their primary god. Notably, I don't know if any of them has actually worshiped her. She just has so much influence that she is hard to ignore.
I'm also working on a novel with her as a central figure. Doubt it'll ever get published, knowing the publishing industry as it is. Still, her personality was too much for me to ignore.
If you have any interest, I'd love to bat around a few ideas I'm thinking about using with her, to see if they are within her character.
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2014-04-22, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
I dunno about that, she doesn't seem that complex and fleshed out to me, really. Sure, she is covered in some detail, but it's certainly nothing compared to the insanity that is Vecna's history. Could you give some examples on Wee Jas? I'm not finding very much, aside from standard info on the worshippers, holy days, her dogma, and a very interesting concept about her having hidden away much of her divine power in a "Well" of some sort.
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2014-04-22, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Wee Jas made it into Core, but she's really a Greyhawk god for a specific, ancient cultural group. As such, she's got the sort of detailed, seemingly contradictory theology that resembles gods from historical cultures, rather than the "we need a god of domain X for generic fantasy" that other gods tend to get.
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2014-04-22, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
I dunno about that, she doesn't seem that complex and fleshed out to me, really. Sure, she is covered in some detail, but it's certainly nothing compared to the insanity that is Vecna's history. Could you give some examples on Wee Jas? I'm not finding very much, aside from standard info on the worshippers, holy days, her dogma, and a very interesting concept about her having hidden away much of her divine power in a "Well" of some sort.
Vecna is definitely as much or more fleshed out than Wee Jas.
I think the point here is that Wee Jas is one of the more original D&D deities and has been substantially fleshed out enough to make her great to work with.
Can anyone think of other deities that are at the level of Vecna and Wee Jas?
Much of the complexity of Wee Jas is pieced together from different places:
- The Ruby Knight Vindicator Prestige Class in ToB.
- Dragon Magazine 88 and 350.
- On Hallowed Ground, Deities and Demigods, Complete Divine, and other deity sourcebooks.
- Her relationships with other deities. Including her romance with her polar opposite Nerebo. Notably, Nerebo is a reverse of spellings on Oberon. People have theorized that this makes Wee Jas an alternate form of Titania.
- The fact that she is a death god. But not a god that promotes death. She is specifically a god of Repose, which is a really unique position.
- That she might be the single most knowledgeable being on the laws of the universe, and yet submits herself to her father and holes herself away in Acheron like a hermit.
- Acheron. She has an Ice Palace in the deepest, darkest corner of the multiverse. Her position just gives her so much mystery.
- Vanity. That this is in her portfolio is really interesting. Though, it's not necessarily a vanity of beauty. It is the vanity of meritocracy. You deserve to think highly of yourself if you've earned it. The ends justify the means. For this, her alignment leans towards evil.
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2014-04-22, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
If nothing else, she has one of the best - if not the very best - deity-specific PrCs in 3.5, the Ruby Knight Vindicator.
And don't give me that "we can refluff it, we have the technology" hooey. Wee Jas got the originals, give her the credit.
But yeah. Not many deities can claim both LG paladins and LE necromancers under a single umbrella.My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
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2014-04-22, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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2014-04-22, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Their worship of the same god would not necessarily predispose them to work together if their other ideals are that different. I need hardly point out that schisms within a religion can be long-running, bloody affairs.
As a DM, though, I would rule that since Wee Jas's clerics automatically channel negative rather than positive energy, she shouldn't be able to support paladins, RKV be damned. Core is higher priority than supplementals, and if you can't make an undead-turning cleric of a particular god, then you shouldn't have other characters, belonging to the same god, be able to turn undead.
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2014-04-22, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Dascarletm, Spinner of Rudiplorked Tales, and Purveyor of PunsThanks to Artman77 for the avatar!
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2014-04-22, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
See, I think that if you want to go by the book, her paladins still channel positive energy.
If you don't want to go by RAW though? You've just found a perfect excuse to create a prestige class for your campaign. "Blackguards of Wee Jas" or something like that; paladins who use dark magic to promote good works.
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2014-04-22, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Well the RKV is just nasty with someone who dips into Sanctified one, victim of a death spell or negative health? You get a chance to heal yourself, or counter whatever is trying to kill you, or just say screw it, you know your going to die anyways, and go supernova with no fear of a backlash.
Now as for paladins, I think this would also be a good time to bring up bone knight, as a good adaption of what a good aligned paladin may look like under wee jas.
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2014-04-22, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
The thing is, while Vecna has a lot written about him, I wouldn't call him fleshed out. He's basically "evil mastermind jerk", and all of his many accomplishments fall back on that theme. Compared to Wee Jas, who's got the sort of complexity and mystery that you described, I don't think he even compares.
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2014-04-22, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2014-04-22, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- Enterprise, AL
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2014-04-22, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Last edited by dascarletm; 2014-04-22 at 05:21 PM.
Dascarletm, Spinner of Rudiplorked Tales, and Purveyor of PunsThanks to Artman77 for the avatar!
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2014-04-22, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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2014-04-22, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Look at the way his legs are spread out. Was he a cavalryman in life?
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2014-04-22, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
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2014-04-22, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
My favorite thing about Wee Jas is her relationship with death and the undead. We tend to think of gods of death as being all about undead as well, like they go hand in hand, but Wee Jas hates the undead. She tolerates them only if they're of dire importance, and destroys them as soon as they should be destroyed. Which is pretty cool.
I think Wee Jas and Olidammara are my favorite gods.
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2014-04-22, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Which is a little weird, given that the Death domain, which she gives, focuses heavily on undead creation. That was always something that bothered me about the Death domain.
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2014-04-22, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Yeah, it's kind of weird, he went from being a Dark Lord/Saurony type to a plotting schemer then he got locked up in Ravenloft, broke out and almost became the ultimate cosmic power in the multiverse, and is now a skulking schemer and not even a God of Saturday Morning Cartoon Villainy like Bane.
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2014-04-22, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
I like the idea of a Blackguard who used to be a Paladin and never, not once, wavered in her devotion to Wee Jas.
I also like the idea of a colour-based "red and blue" team up between a RKV and a Sapphire Hierarch (although the latter might be a little upset at the former's tolerance of magic when used for certain purposes the latter thinks goes against the laws of nature).
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2014-04-22, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
IMC I replace it with the Repose domain.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/dom...m#reposeDomain
The other option is that the undead can only be created with the express permission of a high priest, and only for a limited purpose, and they have to be controlled at all times and destroyed if they get controlled by someone else (and destroyed anyhow when their usefulness is at an end).
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2014-04-23, 01:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Honestly, I'm really just wondering why so many of the D&D death gods seem to love undeath so much. I can't think of anyone from real world mythology who would and it doesn't even make too much sense from an ingame perspective. Gods get the souls of their worshippers when said worshippers die. They don't get them when they become undead. Promoting undeath seems a great way of draining your own power.
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2014-04-23, 02:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
A lich of Vecna can harm Pelor by raising pelorites as ghouls. (It goes without saying that they are raised is against their will)
Wee Jas considers such an act to be unjustifiable despite the practical benefits.
That is why I like Wee Jas, she is not type-ist like Pelor and still has a better heart than Vecna.Last edited by OldTrees1; 2014-04-23 at 02:17 AM.
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2014-04-23, 02:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
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2014-04-23, 03:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
When I read the Dragon Magazine article it I though I read something about her only being okay with intelligent undead if the souls were willing. Especially if they are souls from her people(Suel?).
So she would be against a necromancer trapping a soul in the body of an intelligent undead against its will.Last edited by OldTrees1; 2014-04-23 at 03:02 AM.
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2014-04-23, 07:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
So, in other words, Wee Jas is your archetypical sorceress, or cold or evil queen, or any number of magnificent tropes that can be applied to a beautiful and powerful woman, and Vecna... Is Skeletor.
My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.
Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.
My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!
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2014-04-23, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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2014-04-23, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: I think Wee Jas is the most....complex god thing in D&D
Last edited by Talya; 2014-04-23 at 09:05 AM.