afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VI

[deathbymanga]

How do Jann generally feel about Prime humans?
What do Jann communities generally get up to on the Prime?

what is Jann?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

what is Jann?

Weaker genies.

[deathbymanga]

Weaker genies.

hmm, i wonder what kind of Genasi would result from a Janni and a Human

[Coidzor]

hmm, i wonder what kind of Genasi would result from a Janni and a Human

Half-Janni would be the first step, IIRC.

[Evolved Shrimp]

hmm, i wonder what kind of Genasi would result from a Janni and a Human

None, presumably, because jann aren’t associated with any element. They are native outsiders who live on the Material Plane. By contrast, other genies are extraplanar and have a strong connection to a particular element.

When jann breed with humans or other humanoids, half-jann result, as explained by Coidzor. The template for them is found in Dragon 313 and Sandstorm.

[afroakuma]

Why do ghosts turn up on the Ethereal, and not the Astral? Wouldn't the Astral make more sense, since dead souls pass through it to get to the afterlife? What is it about the Ethereal that draws in the souls of ghosts?

I'm sure I've done this question before. Ah well.

As Tzardok correctly guessed, a ghost is not moving on and is resisting the pull of the Astral Plane on its soul. It anchors itself to the Ethereal protomatter to keep from passing on, and the more powerful the soul imprinted thereupon, the higher the chance that it can reform itself if destroyed as long as the impetus for its hold on material existence remains.

How do Jann generally feel about Prime humans?

I don't really think a generalization can be made here, there are so many tribes of jann and so many human cultures across so many worlds. Even how they feel about, say, the Calishites vs. the Zakharans would be quite different.

What do Jann communities generally get up to on the Prime?

They're generally nomadic, with occasional involvement in trade with outsiders. They're herders who largely enjoy their privacy.

hmm, i wonder what kind of Genasi would result from a Janni and a Human

None. First, er, "occasion" would result in a half-jann, but thinning the bloodline any further would result in a humanoid with, perhaps, an unusual trait or two but not a genasi and nothing consistent.

[Naanomi]

Maybe smite-worthy questions but...
-are there known examples of direct connections to other cosmologies apart from shadow travel? Portals/gates or such?
-would it be possible for some large space (say a particularly mobile Demiplane or something) to 'transition cosmologies'... Moving through the deep shadow and joining the great wheel from abroad; or evacuating the great wheel to become its own mini-cosmology adrift in the deep shadow?

What was the first race to practice wizardry (or some Proto-wizardry of codified studious magic practice rather than innate abilities)? Aboleth? Studious dragons? Early outsiders?

[Dalmosh]

How likely is it that Nerull was once mortal?
Is anything known about his origins? Was he first worshipped on Greyhawk?

[afroakuma]

Maybe smite-worthy questions

Given the topic, I can't fathom why you'd think otherwise.

What was the first race to practice wizardry (or some Proto-wizardry of codified studious magic practice rather than innate abilities)? Aboleth? Studious dragons? Early outsiders?

Unknown. Per afro-canon, the ancient gnomes (nomoi) were the first to study wizardry.

How likely is it that Nerull was once mortal?

Extremely unlikely. Nerull was a deity before humans walked Oerth.

Is anything known about his origins?

See above.

Was he first worshipped on Greyhawk?

As far as we know, he was first worshiped on Oerth.

[JoeyTheNeko]

so out of curioisity, what do you know about RWBY? how would aura and semblance be able to be fit into a sorta D&D system? I imagine it would be some flavor of incarnum, but what's your take on it?

[Jowgen]

Are there any examples of powerful/notable champions/entities of Good (or at least Neutral) that have a Negative Energy theme/base, kinda like Ragnorra is an example of Evil positive energy?

[Coidzor]

Are there any examples of powerful/notable champions/entities of Good (or at least Neutral) that have a Negative Energy theme/base, kinda like Ragnorra is an example of Evil positive energy?

There's archliches and baelnorns, I guess, the good or good elven forms of lich.

[WalkingTheShade]

Are there any examples of powerful/notable champions/entities of Good (or at least Neutral) that have a Negative Energy theme/base, kinda like Ragnorra is an example of Evil positive energy?

Got me to read the Canonfire! page about her. I actually like the story hooks here more than with other Elder Evils I know about.

[Dalmosh]

Please could you elaborate on the form that an elemental takes on its natural Plane? I'd been led to understand that the stats presented in the Monster Manual are only for what elementals appear as when they manifest on a different plane, and in their natural state they have a more abstract and spirit-like existence.
Is that vaguely correct?

If so, are they vaguely analogous to the Material Plane 'spirits' that a Spirit Shaman communes with?

[Urpriest]

I've been working on a fanfic set around when Glasya took Malboge from Malagard, and I have some questions, mostly of the "is this vaguely compatible with canon" variety.

Since Glasya was born, does she have birthdays? Is there some plausible sense in which she could have a coming-of-age ceremony, after which she is expected to take up some position of diabolic power?

I think I've asked you this one before, but could a Deva be a member of the Harmonium? Or an Archon?

Does the following sound like a plausible ill-considered Harmonium plan: understand how love causes conflict in mortals by getting one of their members to fall in love under controlled conditions, and observing the results?

Are (some) Erinyes fallen celestials? Or do fallen celestials usually take more unique forms?

What happens to a devil's class levels when they're promoted? Could a more martial devil have reason to object to being promoted to a less martial form, or to hold out for a promotion that skips a few levels? (Say said devil is politically well-connected enough to refuse a promotion without this being suicide.)

More specifically, since I get the impression Fiendish Codex II's promotion tables are off, what forms can a barbazu be promoted to?

[Tzardok]

I think I've asked you this one before, but could a Deva be a member of the Harmonium? Or an Archon?

Yes, there are cases of exemplars becoming members of factions. IIRC Devas seldom become members, because they are to busy serving their powers.

Does the following sound like a plausible ill-considered Harmonium plan: understand how love causes conflict in mortals by getting one of their members to fall in love under controlled conditions, and observing the results?

I don't think that love is in the focus of Harmonium "schemes".

Are (some) Erinyes fallen celestials? Or do fallen celestials usually take more unique forms?

Depends on the writer, I think. FC2 says yes, they are lesser celstials that fell (or their children).

More specifically, since I get the impression Fiendish Codex II's promotion tables are off, what forms can a barbazu be promoted to?

This should be the promotion diagram of 2e (or based on it).

[Urpriest]

I don't think that love is in the focus of Harmonium "schemes".

Even with the goal of eliminating it?

[Tzardok]

Even with the goal of eliminating it?

I don't think that a faction trying to achieve a peaceful, harmonious world would try to eliminate love. Just look at that ascended succubus that married a paladin. Now weaponizing love, that I could imagine...

[WalkingTheShade]

I don't think that love is in the focus of Harmonium "schemes".

I could imagine the Fratenity of Order going through with such an experiment to try to quantify and understand love rationally and break it down into equations.

Another thing to remember is that factions are not monolithic (well, some are more than others) and even the Lawful factions know some degree of dissent, internal *ahem* factionalism and disagreement. If you absolutely need it for a story to make sense, you could write in a minority cell or group or individuals inside the Harmonium who've decided that passionate love has to be eliminated for harmony to be attained. I don't think anything supports it in canon, but it's not so much of a stretch either. After all, passionate love tends to be irrational and somewhat chaotic.

[Evolved Shrimp]

I don't think that a faction trying to achieve a peaceful, harmonious world would try to eliminate love.

I’m not so sure about that… After all, there are quite a few examples of real-world political or religious movements that tried to achieve peace by violent means (no concrete examples, because that wouldn’t be fitting for this forum, but everybody can probably think of some).

Trying to achieve harmony by eliminating love doesn’t strike me as obviously more absurd. After all, passionate love is not exactly harmonious – it subjects the sufferer to irrational exuberance and depression, can motivate disrupting behavior, and oftentimes renders the afflicted less able to orderly participate in society.

It seems that at least a part of the Harmonium might conclude that the world they envision might be easier to achieve without passionate love leading people astray. And if that part is influential or powerful enough, they might just swing official Harmonium policy.

[Bronk]

The demiplane the city of Union is in is weird. It's neither coexistent with nor coterminous with 'any other plane', yet magic works normally there, and portals function without an astral connection. Is there any explanation for this, or any other example of a demiplane that works the same way?

[WalkingTheShade]

The demiplane the city of Union is in is weird. It's neither coexistent with nor coterminous with 'any other plane', yet magic works normally there, and portals function without an astral connection. Is there any explanation for this, or any other example of a demiplane that works the same way?

*cough* Portal *cough*

How much of the Mewling has been described, beyond its name and function?

[Bronk]

*cough* Portal *cough*

Portals normally fail where astral travel is blocked or not possible in the first place...

[WalkingTheShade]

I was talking about the City of Portal, or whatever is called that other Sigil stand-in that is intentionally meant as a parody (as opposed to Union who does that unintentionally). I tried to find a reference, but I didn't manage to do it. I'm not even so sure it's named Portal anymore.

Anyway, it was more of a joke than a serious answer.

[Coidzor]

After all, passionate love tends to be irrational and somewhat chaotic.

Indeed, people just falling in love willy-nilly with whoever, whenever. This is UNACCEPTABLE!

And, of course, naturally, because this is the Harmonium and they're meddling with things that are beyond their ken after not having learned from the last time they messed up the multiverse, bad things happen.

Well, I just got you the main Harmonium figure behind this and presented the ultimate result, have fun plotting that out.

[Gildedragon]

So some questions of morality brought up the Wall of the Faithless. My question is: how do people from other planes regard that particularity of the Realms?
I could see Faerunians being pitied by the interplanar community. "Yeah we have it rough in Athas, sure, but at least my soul isn't held hostage"

[Tzardok]

You do know that not even the souls of the dead leave Athas? They get stuck in the Grey and just fade away with time. So no, not even in that way is living in Faerûn worse than living in Athas.

[Gildedragon]

You do know that not even the souls of the dead leave Athas? They get stuck in the Grey and just fade away with time. So no, not even in that way is living in Faerûn worse than living in Athas.

That's better than the wall in that at least it is equal for all and not dependent on sucking up to some god's satisfaction. Yeah it isn't great, but it isn't arbitrary, and it isn't torture (unlike the wall)

[Tzardok]

That's better than the wall in that at least it is equal for all and not dependent on sucking up to some god's satisfaction. Yeah it isn't great, but it isn't arbitrary, and it isn't torture (unlike the wall)

That is a philosophical difference here. I personally believe that the Faerûnian way is less horriffying than what happens to Athasians, because it doesn't happen to everyone, because there are ways to evade that destiny. (And I have to say that being a lost soul without hope to ever reach any destination or to come back, just slowly dissolving into metaphorical dust, is also torture, even if it is more of the mind-numbing kind.)

[Coidzor]

An Athasian who learned of FR would probably prefer to go elsewhere, since they're probably not comfortable with gods as much as most would be due to not having any.

Of course, an Athasian who learned of FR would mostly be happy to not be anywhere near Athas anymore.

A primer from Oerth would probably view the Wall of the Faithless as a rather klunky affair, since many of their deities are quite similar or shared with Toril, and get along just fine without it.

The Athar would hate it completely and be extra hostile to FR powers, I should think, though they apparently don't pay enough attention to Toril to have found out about the Time of Troubles and, thus, Ao, even before he started erasing knowledge of himself.

Eberronians who wandered into the greater planar cosmology would probably be ecstatic at not having to deal with Dolurrh.



Since we've gotten onto the subject of Planar Metropolises and all...

Just what is required for a Planar Metropolis? Both to form in the first place and to prevent it from becoming a front for the Blood War/destroyed if it's accessible to more than one alignment extreme.