Results 211 to 240 of 275
Thread: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
-
2016-09-02, 12:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
- Gender
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
It would take quite a while for everyone to figure out the cosplaying wizzie is an actual Wizard. Heck there are some self proclaimed Grand Warlocks and such here in our own RL world and we don't automatically assume "gosh, magic!"
The Wizard would have ample amounts of time to acclimate to the situation at hand. And remember its only one Wizard 20. If an entire nation or empire of Wizards decided to come to our world, then that's a different thread entirely.
-
2016-09-02, 03:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Location
- turkey
- Gender
-
2016-09-02, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
- Gender
-
2016-09-02, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
It's more law of averages. Yes, the wizard's victims can succeed saving throws. Yes, the wizard can miss with ranged touch attacks. No, the wizard doesn't know everything to start with (and, in fact, is in the most danger of making a plot-shifting mistake in the first few minutes of encountering another human being in this strange world of ours).
That said, though, if he's smart enough to realize that he knows nothing about what's going on, he'll do one of two things: He'll assume wizards are a known (if not necessarily common) thing, and actually go into the nearest town to start asking for common information sources, identifying himself as a wizard (probably after casting tongues to facilitate communication, if Common doesn't 'plot magically' translate to whatever is the language of the area he first arrives in).
This will get him some very strange looks. Especially since his garb will stand out like a sore thumb anywhere outside of a major city running a geek-oriented convention.
But it won't get the police called unless he makes a scene that causes people to be worried. The worst case scenario for "oops, I overtly used magic" would be if some muggers or something tried to pick a fight with him before he knew magic was noteworthy in an unfortunate way; dropping sleep or web to incapacitate them and not be bothered beyond that is likely a common response from a 20th level wizard in what he thinks is a civilized area encountering what he probably presumes to be lawless thugs. (Here, the LG or LN wizard is in the most danger of screwing up: he might assume reporting this to the authorites, informing them that he put these people to sleep/trapped them in a web to subdue the criminals for the authorites' convenience. At best, they'll think he's a bit crazy and potentially dangerous, and take him in for questioning. At worst, they'll realize he put a magical web in place and know something's up.) Heck, maybe he dimension doors away from the thugs in the first place. Overt magic, yeah, but who's going to BELIEVE them? Even security cameras will be doubted in the face of that apparent impossibility, though granted, it could be what is needed to start somebody being paranoid at the right levels of government.
Regardless, just let him avoid having everything go wrong to a degree that falls outside a single standard deviation for "average events," and he will figure out that magic is unknown here, and that he stands out if he walks around dressed and acting like a wizard. A simple disguise self spell will ensure he is dressed similarly to the locals, however, and can easily get him out of trouble if he happens to make people suspicious and start searching for him.
In short, no, it's not about having to succeed at every magical thing he does. It's about the fact that he can keep trying until he does, and that wizards are not stupid and have tools that DO automatically work to let them keep secrets while learning about unknown, dangerous situations.
And they have no idea what it was, because being charmed isn't a thing in our world. If they raise a hue and cry, they'll be the ones who seem crazy: paranoid and/or schizophrenic.
This. People only call the police on crazy-persons if the crazies are causing a scene that is driving away business or endangering themselves or others.
I could walk down Dallas's main streets wearing a bathrobe and a hat with stars stitched on it, and, as long as I was wearing a sufficiently all-encompassing bathrobe not to get called out on indecency laws, I'd just get weird looks. Even if I waved my fingers and chanted weird syllables at people before trying to get them to give me their wallet, they'd just back away and avoid me. It would take a LOT of harassment in the same place and at the wrong people, disrupting somebody's business or actively harassing people enough to make a recognizable pattern before anybody would call the police on me.
If I were grandiose enough about it, most people would think I was performing some sort of improv street theater.
Even if I did get the police called on me, my erudite speech would enable me to apologize to them for causing a disruption and probably get off with a warning to "move along" and "don't cause a disturbance." I'd have to have been acting in a way that convinced the officers I was dangerous to myself or others to get hauled off to the station (under most circumstances).
And if we replace "wizard" with "sorceress," and some of the slips of robes and belts that they're depicted as almost wearing, combined with what is acceptable attire for attractive women in the modern US... she'd get whistles and people playing along more than she'd get the cops called, at least until she started actually assaulting people. (At worst, they might approach her and ask her if she's a prostitute, and to move along; attempted arrest is only happening if they can get her to offer sex for money.)
In short: the wizard has a fair bit of leeway to make an idiot of himself in public before it rises above "eccentric street theater" to most people. And he's probably smart enough to realize that drawing attention to himself like that is a bad idea before he knows what manner of demigods rule this world of mechanical monsters.
So he'll be likely, once he realizes that he needs information before he draws attention to himself, to make liberal use of disguise self to test approaches until he finds one that works, and to elude pursuit and culpability should he accidentally run afoul of authorities (legitimate or otherwise).
He's most vulnerable to this right away. I know most PC level 20 wizards respond with overt magical force (or defense) to sudden surprise attacks from even the lowliest commoner or housecat, simply because it's possible it's really a CR 30 pseudonatural dragon disguised as a housecat.
So they either obliterate, disable, or teleport away from it.
As long as he doesn't encounter overt hostility in the few minutes of encounters he'll need to realize that overt magic draws unwanted attention, he has myriad options to avoid it being obvious. It's just a matter of him knowing to employ them first.
Yeah. They can, but that doesn't mean they have to. So it's hardly "handicapping" a wizard that he has the option.
PF is also incredibly forgiving with its specialization rules: the "banned" schools just cost 2 spell slots to prepare, rather than being truly removed from the specialist's class spell list.
-
2016-09-02, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Depends on the wizard.
If someone wants to build a wizard I'm sure we could have a more useful discussion on that particular wizard's tactics/their likelihood to succeed.
I'll throw in a contender. Note that this is a preconstructed NPC because I don't feel like building a character at this moment. Sadly it only lists spells prep'd not all the spells in their spellbook.Dascarletm, Spinner of Rudiplorked Tales, and Purveyor of PunsThanks to Artman77 for the avatar!
Extended Signature
-
2016-09-02, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Originally Posted by Strigon
1) Stranger approaches people making outlandish requests and generally acting like a predator.
2) At some point in time, people report this malevolent behavior, or it's noticed by police on patrol.
3) Wizard resists arrest and escalates by physically assaulting a police officer.
4) Wizard, if not already shot dead outright, proceeds to run on foot from the scene of the crime.
A word on your proposed method of escape, alter Self doesn't change clothes, it either melds them into the body (so now we have a new naked lunatic on the street) or leaves them in place...in which case our quick changes artist still has his regalia of unusual things on his person.
And casting a spell is a big showy ordeal, people are going to notice that this guy waves his hands and speaks magic words and then tries to run twice as fast as a normal person would. Especially if this wizard is old, which, as a level 20 they pretty much have to be if they have a collection of spell books containing all the spells in even just the PHB.
This "new" person would be detained for questioning, at the least, no matter how much they looked different because they would have the possessions of the person being chased, or be nude.
And, not to get too into the weeds on mechanics, although a Wizard might have a, relatively, moderate BAB, these are trained combatants he's up against, their equivalent BAB is likely to be on the upper end of the scale (i.e. +15-+20) with commensurate multiple attacks. They could easily outgun and outgrapple him. Furthermore modern weapons deal a large amount of damage and have a very high rate of fire, a single gun would be lethal at point blank range.
At this point backup will have been called in, witnesses would be gathering to gawk, and the net result is the same, wizard inevariably faced with the choice of detention (or maybe lethal force for having attacked the police) or being forced to escalate the situation further.
Originally Posted by Xar Zarath
And an invasion is definitely going to draw attention. There's a slim margin for, temporary, cover by an individual, but a group has no chance of blending.
Actually, this might pose the basis for a fun modern d20 or cthulhu campaign: the party is a group of private investigators who have to look into the odd behavior of people whose relatives have noticed that they're acting strangely from having come into contact with this wizard (i.e. his early successes).
Originally Posted by Strigon
Originally Posted by Segev
But that material component: "Arcane Material Component A small clay model of a ziggurat, which shatters when the verbal component is pronounced."
If he has to cast tongues, that's going to draw some hilarious attention.
Originally Posted by Segev
And one example of an evil wizard from some of the books is a guy who walks around attached by chains to slaves who he drains of their life force to empower his spells. His reaction to anyone bothering him is to start chucking fireball spells.
That dude is simply not going to keep a low profile, and they're the most likely type to even get into this sort of thing.
As for dimension door...he's got to have an end point, in any urban environment that's probably going to be a wall, so he'll visibly pop out of a wall, possibly in front of dozens of witnesses and/or cameras.
Originally Posted by Segev
If you're lucky at that point the person in question puts immediate distance between them, if not it's a fight.
Originally Posted by Segev
The image I associate with most fantasy wizards is more along the lines of hobo with a sack for their books. Sure, you won't get bothered if you don't say or do anything offensive, but approaching a total stranger, waving your hands and intoning words and then asking for their wallet? Yeah that's going to engender a negative reaction (even charmed)
Originally Posted by Segev
-
2016-09-02, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
You keep assuming the wizard is going to walk up to somebody and do all this in the open. While he might the first one or two times if he really has no clue that magic is not known and trusted here, he's not stupid and will figure it out fast. Casting tongues in an alleyway and then walking out speaking the local language won't really be all that suspicious.
Sure. If he's really confident he can do this without interference. That dude is going to quickly learn that the world is still a weird place and that he has a lot to learn, and he'll hole up in a fortress somewhere with his mind-slaves feeding him information.
Or just "up on the roof." And then he casts invisibility and his overland flight lets him go away in ways nobody watching suspects.
Again, you assume he walks up to your face and tries this. Rather than, say, looking across the street at a likely mark and casting. Sure, somebody near him might notice the weird gestures and speech, but the target who feels the "hostile force" won't likely see a thing.
People walking up and asking you for a few bucks is not all that weird. Only an idiot wizard would say "give me your coin purse," because he doesn't necessarily know he's successfully charmed the mark. And wizards aren't idiots. Almost by definition.
Line of sight teleport works. And a wizard may well have scoped out a safe point to retreat to anyway. If all else fails, there's "500 feet straight up." Remember his all-day-long overland flight.
-
2016-09-03, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Ohio -USA
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Because we exist on a plane where magic does not exist, as soon as the wizard plane shifts to earth, they would be drained of all of their spellcasting ability, and their magical items would be worthelss, and then they would even lose to a group of teenagers because on our plane everyone has about the same number of hit points.
Avatar Image originally created by Rich Burlew, reformatted by me.
-
2016-09-03, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Cazero's Graduates Of Hope's Peak - Danganronpa Mafia
Avatar by AsteriskAmp
My Homebrew
-
2016-09-03, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Ohio -USA
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Sorry I felt like replying before reading all 6 pages of replies. The replies I had read at the time I typed mine out had not come to the same conclusion that I did in my original reply about there being no magic in this world. There's no need to take the time and point out whatever you're feeling if its just going to be the type of reply you made. But whatever, your time is yours, heck I shouldn't even be typing out this reply because of how pointless it is but here I am.
I supose to revive things a bit we would need more specifics.
#1 under what circumstances do the wizard and the chinese army face eachother? On earth where there is no magic? In the realm of the wizard where there is magic?
#2 what laws do wizard spells operate under? Does invisibility only block visible spectrums of light? Would infra red or ultraviolet detection systems still cause the wizard to be seen? Or would it be more like how dark matter can't be detected by these, at least we think it cant or there's no evidence so far that it cant, but it can still have its mass measured to some extent?
#3 are we converting the wizard from a set of stats like attack bonus, hit points, waving throws, to a more realalistic human body, no hit points only injuries, no experience levels only your ability to react, skill at doing things, etc. Or are we converting the chinese army to less real d20 system of stats, give them all levels of xp, hp, etc. Converting their weapons, skills, vehicles, etc, into d20 rules systems.
#4 why is this even happening? whats the motivation of the wizard to defeat an army? or whats the motivation of the chinese army to defeat a wizard?
#5 why choose the whole army? Its impossible for 3.5 million soldiers to be lined up in a single battle formation to face off against 1 opponent. It could never bring to bear its full force against the wizard, so the wizard would always be facing a small part at any given time and could basically have the whole 300 spartans vs 1 million soldiers advantage of fighting in a narrow space where number advantage means nothing.Avatar Image originally created by Rich Burlew, reformatted by me.
-
2016-09-03, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
- Gender
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
The most fair way to do it is to suppose that the Wizard is transported here, to Earth, and magic "seeps through", meaning the Chinese have their full infrastructure, and the Wizard has all his power.
#2 what laws do wizard spells operate under? Does invisibility only block visible spectrums of light? Would infra red or ultraviolet detection systems still cause the wizard to be seen? Or would it be more like how dark matter can't be detected by these, at least we think it cant or there's no evidence so far that it cant, but it can still have its mass measured to some extent?
Invisibility makes a creature undetectable by vision, including darkvision."
This states quite clearly that they cannot be seen. To be detected via infrared or ultraviolet radiation would violate this, ergo he would remain undetectable by all EM radiation.
#3 are we converting the wizard from a set of stats like attack bonus, hit points, waving throws, to a more realalistic human body, no hit points only injuries, no experience levels only your ability to react, skill at doing things, etc. Or are we converting the chinese army to less real d20 system of stats, give them all levels of xp, hp, etc. Converting their weapons, skills, vehicles, etc, into d20 rules systems.
I propose that - for attacks - the rules favour the defender. For example, if the Wizard gets shot at, the Chinese have to hit him (Which can be effectively seen as them rolling and hitting the Wizard's touch AC. They haven't actually done so - they've just aimed properly - but the effects are the same), and then the bullets have a slight chance to be blocked, based on which defensive spells the Wizard has up and the caliber of the bullet. Any bullets that make it through deal X D(Y) damage to the Wizard, based once again on caliber.
If the Wizard casts Fireball, there is an incendiary explosion centred around the spell.
#4 why is this even happening? whats the motivation of the wizard to defeat an army? or whats the motivation of the chinese army to defeat a wizard?
But, just for the sake of giving an answer, the Wizard is pulled away from his world with no means of return by some sort of Supreme Being, and told that he will be put back if he can defeat the Chinese Army. At the same time, the Chinese Army receives unquestionable intelligence that a lone enemy is seeking to destroy them. Neither knows anything about their adversary save for their name.
#5 why choose the whole army? Its impossible for 3.5 million soldiers to be lined up in a single battle formation to face off against 1 opponent. It could never bring to bear its full force against the wizard, so the wizard would always be facing a small part at any given time and could basically have the whole 300 spartans vs 1 million soldiers advantage of fighting in a narrow space where number advantage means nothing.
Secondly, number advantage means nothing? Look, I get that it's easier to fight 5 people one by one than it is to fight 5 people all at once, but either way my money's going on the group of people. Tactically, it might not make a real difference, but strategically? It makes all the difference in the world.
Third, it's still irrelevant. Even if it were true that it's a huge advantage to only be outnumbered several thousand to one, what's your point? The question is "who would win", not "how can we make this a fair fight?"
-
2016-09-03, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Ohio -USA
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Let's assume that since the wizard could not choose to plane shift out, that teleportation is also invalid. I think the chinese army would win. Through constant attack the wizard would never be given the chance to rest after exhausting all of their spells and thus would eventually be taken down.
Avatar Image originally created by Rich Burlew, reformatted by me.
-
2016-09-03, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
- Gender
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Not true at all. There's no reason to say he can't teleport, or plane shift out - he just can't return home. What would happen without those spells is a different question.
Even without them, though, Rope Trick exists, and Invisibility buys you enough time to escape - especially if coupled with movement-boosting spells.
-
2016-09-03, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
actually hadn't though about rope trick he can hide for 20 hours at a time, if he only leaves the rope trick while time stopped he cant be touched and from inside he can just spam summoned monsters to go out and kill for him.
I mean create demi plane is more powerful but this is probably good enough and doesn't require any special preparation and being a low level spell is almost certain to be in the spell book.
Summon monster 8 summons d4+1 succubus they can teleport around dominating people shape shifting into commanders and giving conflicting orders, calling in airstrikes on their own guys either through dominated pawns or just simply using bluff and suggestion while looking like a comrade to convince them that their allies have been compromised.
Even if they try and put in place codes the dominated guys will know them to. The raw paranoia will be devastating no army can function if they think anyone they meet might suddenly turn on them or be a demon in disguise.
they only last a short while but with their teleport to get to targets anywhere in the world they can cause a crazy amount of damge in that time and at no long term cost to the wizard.Last edited by awa; 2016-09-03 at 04:44 PM.
-
2016-09-03, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
-
2016-09-03, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
rope tricks just the minimum any wizard not smart enough to know at least rope trick should just quite now
-
2016-09-03, 11:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Someone dressed in a bathrobe and speaking gibberish might not warrant police attention in the USA, but that doesn't necessarily hold true for every country. Anyone care to respond as an expert in Chinese culture, law, etc?
Also, I'd be willing to give the Chinese citizens the benefit of the doubt to have the "superstitious" trait, and not just blow off mental intrusion like more jaded peoples might. Any experts care to comment?
2e actually has chronomancers, and details which spells actually manipulate time. They start at 1st level, just like spells that require D&D planar geography to function, such as the monster summoning line, start at 1st level. Haste is one of the most obvious examples of lower-level D&D magic that manipulates time.
Also, as one cannot disprove that D&D planar geography exists in the real world, it is not unreasonable to postulate "the Chinese army" in a world with D&D planes looking exactly like the Chinese army IRL.
But all that is irrelevant to my actual point, which wasn't technology, but tactics. If we say the planes are real in this world, just like time is real in this world, I contend our strategies for dealing with weaponized planes would be as incomplete as our strategies for dealing with weaponized time.
In particular: "the Chinese army", as it exists right now, could well come from a world that has magic & D&D planar geography. That is the best way to allow most people's interpretations of the question.
The Chinese army, as it exists right now, is in a world that was just granted magic, and has no planes, is, however, an equally valid way to interpret the question.
But the Chinese army does not live in a vacuum in this world; this makes answering what would really happen rather complex.
For this reason, and several others (including making discussions of rules set more productive), I have pushed to move this confrontation to a "neutral" third world.
I've also included an example of something that would be "fair", while being decidedly not neutral.
Because jade exists in our world.
Also, slightly questionable RAW, but getting the pope to bless the army's nukes might be a thing. (because apparently holy water beats incorporeal? Is that a Pathfinder thing? Because people keep saying it.)
Created a new world, yes. But one designed to stack the deck as far in the army's favor as possible while still being fair about it.
Because there are a lot of possible interpretations that are all fair (and plenty more that are not at all fair, or that break the spirit of the question).
I have simply tried to choose the fair one that most benefits the army. I think I've done a reasonably good job.
And tried to set this confrontation up in a more "standardized" format.
For the record, my characters are probably about as unoptimized as you're likely to see in a PC. Most of them were originally 2e wizards - meaning random stats (ok, not completely random, as you require int 9+ to qualify as a wizard), whatever random spells they happened to find on their adventures, and things like Run, Endurance, and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken are among the highlights of their post-conversion stat blocks.
Even so, almost every one can defeat the Chinese army handily. At least, as 3.x characters - I know nothing of Pathfinder.
One does so purely by coincidence: in 2e, they were a lich with regeneration. In 3e, that translates to "damage converted to subdual" and "immune to subdual", which translates to immune to damage. And immune to poison, and disease, and hunger, and breathing, and maybe even to seduction (lich-loved says maybe not).
Very little could prevent this naked skeleton from turning China into a new necropolis - even nukes should, at worst, be a 1d10 day inconvenience.
Now, if someone IRL, who is also a part of the Chinese army, can turn undead as a 60th level cleric, that would be a problem.
This is awesome, but, to be fair, it is also one-sided. What I would like to see is a D&D expert who converts D&D characters into real world "stats". An example of what I mean: the hit percentage of the U.S. army is x, the hit percentage of the Chinese army is y, the hit percentage of the D&D mage is z. The effective range of engagement of the U.S. army is m, the effective range of engagement of the Chinese army is n, the effective range of engagement of the D&D mage is o. Etc etc.
But, honestly, that would matter much more in a proper war of soldiers vs fighters. High level magic tends to make such numbers not really matter.
-
2016-09-09, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Originally Posted by Segev
With the example NPC I provided, caution isn't even part of their vocabulary, they literally don't care what those around them think about the NPCs actions.
Originally Posted by Segev
Aside from that, just assuming the Wizard did manage to get to a roof, Invisiblity would only last 20 minutes at which point you'd have a flying man in a city. That's gonna get seen.
Originally Posted by Segev
It's both weird and alarming when they are dressed the way a Wizard is. Being intelligent isn't the same thing as being wise, and most Wizards by definition are intelligent, but they are not, by definition, wise. Indeed, most Wizards exhibit a distinct lack of wisdom, which is why they go about doing imminently foolish things like...well like what the Wizard of this thread is apparently doing.
Line of sight has a high rate of success (albeit not total), but that wouldn't really help since they'd still be visible from the same area by necessity.
-
2016-09-10, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
- Gender
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Wait, I'm missing something. Why are we assuming the Wizard is - for lack of a better word - a moron? This is a place where he doesn't know the culture, laws, or even necessarily the language. There are any number of reasons why, even in the D&D universe, you might not want everybody to know that you're an all-powerful Wizard, and since he doesn't know anything about this place, it only makes sense for him to assume the worst.
Not to be too much of a martinet, but it requires either stating a direction (I would not consider "up on the roof" to be a direction, but he'd also have to get the specific distance correct, which is beyond improbable considering the Wizard would have no idea at all how high up the roof is, or if the roof is even something that could be stood on) or visualizing the area which the Wizard could not possibly achieve for a location they'd never been to and can not see.
Aside from that, just assuming the Wizard did manage to get to a roof, Invisiblity would only last 20 minutes at which point you'd have a flying man in a city. That's gonna get seen.
It's both weird and alarming when they are dressed the way a Wizard is. Being intelligent isn't the same thing as being wise, and most Wizards by definition are intelligent, but they are not, by definition, wise. Indeed, most Wizards exhibit a distinct lack of wisdom, which is why they go about doing imminently foolish things like...well like what the Wizard of this thread is apparently doing.
Line of sight has a high rate of success (albeit not total), but that wouldn't really help since they'd still be visible from the same area by necessity.
-
2016-09-10, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Actually, I can think of two "typical wizard approaches" for a strange new civilization:
1) Wizards are subtle and intelligent, and recognize that they stand out with their weird clothing, and want to go in prepared. Heck, let's be honest, here, our typical assumptions about the level 20 wizard is that he doesn't brush his teeth without first divining whether his toothpaste has been poisoned. Upon realizing that this is a new place with cultures and styles and magical accoutrements (which cars and the like would seem to be to him), he's perfectly able to hop into a magnificent mansion until he can rest and recover spells, making sure to pick up his divination suite to learn as much as he can about the area before exposing himself to it. He'll learn how they'd react (in general) to a wizard, whether to draw attention to his power or hide it, he'll probably figure out that magic is rare-to-unknown, and he'll learn some basics about what approach to take, which means he'll quickly learn that subtlety is going to get him a lot further than overt expressions of power.
2) Wizards are powerful and overt, and will walk into town and proclaim their status, possibly with big fireworks and impressive displays to prove it. Still, one does not open by fireballing random citizenry; one never knows what other adventurers are lurking about. Most modern people would think he's putting on a performance of some sort. Seriously, look at how people react to over-the-top scenes in New York or other big cities; they gather to watch, and clap. He's likely to first realize he's doing something...off...when the police arrive and tell him he needs a permit or that he can't do that here. Again, not being stupid, he knows he can't just fricassee the local guard for telling him the rules of the city; who knows what kind of powerful wizards are either in the nobility or are advising them? If he finds himself pressed by those who think him mad or dangerous, he enacts an escape plan, and goes to (1). If not, he learns that subtlety is good and pretending to be a faker is better than being thought of as a madman...or revealing his power in a place so alien as to not know of magic, but yet have wonders the likes of which he's never seen before.
In either event, it doesn't take great wisdom to avoid drawing attention to disastrous levels. Even if he made the news, the world at large would dismiss it as a hoax or a really impressive bit of street theater. Investigations wouldn't give "magic" a serious consideration at all. By the time he was ready to take on the Chinese Army, he'd have way more knowledge of them than they did of him, and would easily be in position for any of the plans we've outlined. (My favorite is still the infiltration one where he charms his way to the top.)
It takes not lack of wisdom, but utter bone-headed stupidity to walk in like you rule the world already. As rare as level 20 wizards are, they still have to worry about other threats on their CR range. If he's properly paranoid, he probably suspects there are one or more levle 20 wizards who are hiding magic from the world to be its secret masters, or something, as his FIRST guess. Because that'd be the worst case scenario for him.
-
2016-09-10, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
that's the thing we have two choices the god wizard who shatters CR who things he untouchable wont do those dumb things because his caution is what makes him a god wizard.
The normally wizard who is not a paranoid lunatic is not arrogant because he lives in a world of other cr 20 monsters who can seriously threaten him.
Assuming a standard d&d setting we actually look way more dangerous then we are, our buildings are huge and we have thousands of largemetal constructs rolling around in vast armies filling the streets with light and noise. He has no reason to assume just by looking at him that a car is effectively harmless bare minimum he thinks its an animated object possibly a golem.
-
2016-09-10, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Or some sort of Magical Beast; there are a few in D&D with metallic shells, and their roars as they move are disturbing. And if you get in their way they SCREAM at you! They screech as they come to a quick stop and they blare a warning, angry cry in a staccato pattern. Then their human lures curse at you, possibly casting spells with those gestures that accompany it. (Okay, your Spellcraft tells you they're not, but man, those things are trying to mimic it!)
-
2016-09-10, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
not to mention smart phones and automatic doors etc at a glance we have a ton of magic being used very casually. The internet would seem a very powerful divination tool that can be used at will by anyone, that would be one heck of a magic item at first glance.
Last edited by awa; 2016-09-10 at 04:23 PM.
-
2016-09-10, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
The premise of the thread is them fighting each other, is it not?
Thus, it is, IMO, best to just start with, "and they both want to kill each other".
-
2016-09-16, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
That still starts with "The wizard uses his supreme magical power to go into hiding long enough to learn all he can and formulate his plans for wiping them out."
To make it PARTICULARY interesting, let's say China somehow knows that this wizard is a level 20 PF wizard and has access to all of the rules of PF to analyze the full potential capabilities of this wizard.
I still think they're screwed, but it's a lot harder since they at least know to implement anti-mind-control protocols (e.g. checks to make sure key personnel are NOT mind-controlled before they're allowed to make critical decisions), and are aware they have to deal with a teleporting flying invisible sapient WMD under the best of circumstances.
That variant on the scenario now opens up the door to seeing what sorts of countermeasures might be put into place, given the capabilities of the real-world military in question, since they know the potential of the threat, even if they don't know his precise build or MO.
-
2016-09-16, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
one thing they need to worry about though is that wizards have so many ways of tricking people mind control, mind manipulation, illusion, shape shifting +mind reading minions, that trying to account for all of them might just cause them to collapse without the wizard casting a single spell as paranoia and conspiracy eats them alive from within.
Additionally is resources the army has finite funds and material if they try and build counter measures to everything a wizard can do they will run out of resources before the wizard runs out of tricks. Particularly since some of the more esoteric spells would require extensive research and development before they even have a possibility of defense. (shadows and ethereal)Last edited by awa; 2016-09-16 at 03:03 PM.
-
2016-09-16, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
I'm just gonna say this once. Science is magic so someone with enough since could learn to beat a wizard.
-
2016-09-16, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2016-09-16, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
Last edited by dascarletm; 2016-09-16 at 03:34 PM.
Dascarletm, Spinner of Rudiplorked Tales, and Purveyor of PunsThanks to Artman77 for the avatar!
Extended Signature
-
2016-09-16, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: PF Wizard 20 VS China Army?
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣