Steven UnIVerse: 4shadowing

[Flickerdart]

I really doubt that Alexandrite would be able to take on a Diamond, for two reasons.

First, it took a whole rebellion to defeat Pink Diamond. If the Crystal Gems could slap together a big ugly fusion and rival a Diamond's power, they would have won much faster, especially since they still had Rose. And second, Alexandrite was having trouble with Malachite, and Malachite is a dysfunctional fusion of uncooperative gems. Regular gems, at that - more powerful than your average bear, but Jasper was weaker than Garnet on her own, and probably weaker than Rose too.

[Draconi Redfir]

agree with you there. most likely any fusion would be too clumsy and scattered to take on a dimond. Consider it a laser vs a flashlight. the flashlight might be able to make it's beam really, really big by constantly amping up it's power, but the bigger it gets the weaker it's beam becomes. a laser on the other hand is pinpoint and focused, a laser that's the same size as the flashlight would just overpower it completely.

[Flickerdart]

Eh, I think you could come up with a diamond-power fusion. For example, Garnet is basically a single gem. Only extraordinary circumstances cause her to unfuse. Even Pearl and Amethyst say that when they fuse, they fuse with Garnet, not with Ruby and Sapphire. And Garnet is a very powerful gem, stronger than Jasper.

So imagine you took Rose Quartz, who is already stronger than Garnet, and baked her into a fusion as stable as Garnet's. With a gem as strong as her. You'd end up with a fusion stronger than Malachite, plus extraordinarily stable.

And then fuse that with something just like it. Two mega-Garnets. And get that relationship as stable as Garnet's bond. Then you'd have something that could give Diamonds a run for their money.

[Admiral Squish]

Idle wonderings, do you guys think Garnet's voice actress knew Garnet was a fusion from the very beginning?

[John Cribati]

Honestly, Malachite had the advantage over Alexandrite because

1: They were fighting in water, which is basically like a boxer fighting a swordsman but staying within perfect stabbing distance at all times

2: Malachite existed as a being for several months, getting used to her body and abilities. I doubt that, even over thousands of years, Alexandrite existed for a collective of more than two weeks. Hell, she doesn't even have her own weapon.

[Flickerdart]

I'm pretty sure that a Diamond would be able to curbstomp Malachite even if she was standing in water. You don't get to be a giant woman in charge of a star-spanning empire of conquest by being a wimp.

Speaking of which, has anyone done a size comparison between the various gems? Size:power seems to be a pretty consistent ratio (with Lapis being the only outlier). We could use Pearl as a unit of measurement.

[DigoDragon]

Idle wonderings, do you guys think Garnet's voice actress knew Garnet was a fusion from the very beginning?

I have no idea.

Speaking of Garnet, this is a neat tweet of early concept art.

[Aquillion]

I have no idea.

Speaking of Garnet, this is a neat tweet of early concept art.

Gasp! That picture also spoils Steven Universe's entire plot arc!

It's going to have a setup, a body, a climax, and an end! Now we know everything.

[LaZodiac]

Idle wonderings, do you guys think Garnet's voice actress knew Garnet was a fusion from the very beginning?

100% yes. It's the type of thing you'd say to help your actor REALLY know how to properly deliver her lines.

[Flickerdart]

Gasp! That picture also spoils Steven Universe's entire plot arc!

It's going to have a setup, a body, a climax, and an end! Now we know everything.

Nah, that's just early concept. Steven Universe will go on forever.

[Admiral Squish]

Gasp! That picture also spoils Steven Universe's entire plot arc!

It's going to have a setup, a body, a climax, and an end! Now we know everything.

I just hope we get to see the end eventually. Not even talking about cancellation. As good a show as SU is, I really hope it gets to a finale rather than just lingering on forever, introducing new, bigger enemies or suffering a case of 'unreachable bad guy'.
I.e. "You may have beaten the Diamonds, but little did you know that the gem forces were all that was holding back the metal armada! Muahahaha!" or "You think you've won? That was merely my shard, a body-double, with only a fraction of my true power!"

[Snowbluff]

Where do you get the idea that Stevonnie is a leech (or is leeching, at any rate)?

Connie is not a gem
Ergo Connie has no gem powers
In order to increase power with a fusion, you have to get more power from somewhere
Ergo Steven munches on Connie's fancy Earth life energy... stuff.

It's a case of 1 + 0 != 2. There has to be something that Connie can specifically contribute to that scene stealing creepy Mary Sue fusion. The Earth and its inhabitants having some kind of magical life energy that can power gems is supported by this.

I'm pretty sure that a Diamond would be able to curbstomp Malachite even if she was standing in water. You don't get to be a giant woman in charge of a star-spanning empire of conquest by being a wimp.

Speaking of which, has anyone done a size comparison between the various gems? Size:power seems to be a pretty consistent ratio (with Lapis being the only outlier). We could use Pearl as a unit of measurement.

Well Pink Diamond was taken down at some point. I don't think the Diamonds are invincible, but their natures of their powers aren't well defined.

Hm... I think Malachite would probably beat a Diamond, assuming she's the most powerful Fusion so far.

[Lord Raziere]

Connie is not a gem
Ergo Connie has no gem powers
In order to increase power with a fusion, you have to get more power from somewhere
Ergo Steven munches on Connie's fancy Earth life energy... stuff.

It's a case of 1 + 0 != 2. There has to be something that Connie can specifically contribute to that scene stealing creepy Mary Sue fusion. The Earth and its inhabitants having some kind of magical life energy that can power gems is supported by this.

......Or y'know, fusions just work on Anime New Form Logic and get more powerful because its a different form? because I'm pretty sure that SU has anime inspirations:

-Protagonist eats a lot of food. check
-protagonist lives with three or more female people that are not blood relation. check.
-Protagonist can fuse with other people. check
-rather than using guns in a modern setting, the protagonists instead opt to use fancy or impractical magical versions of medieval weapons. check
-protagonists are stronger and faster than ordinary humans and constantly make high jumps and actions that cause collateral damage to their surroundings. check
-everyone has a special power for a random reason relating to the special thing on the show. check
-antagonists are cosmic overlords who rarely get to use their full power, and the only time they did it was an attack that covered an entire planet. check
-lesser antagonists are not just fought against, but befriended after their reason for fighting is shown to be wrong. check.
-protagonist undergoes training arcs. check.
-biggest fusion fights resemble godzilla or giant mecha fights. check.
-has an otaku parody. check.
-protagonist is an inheritor of a great legacy that he learns more about through his adventures. check.
-the universe is centered around badasses fighting each other over a status quo that has existed for thousands of years and the protagonist's coming changes things through his willingness to spare his opponents. check.

I think SU is just that anime dude. Its just anime enough to have fusions be powerful because they're fusions.

[ellindsey]

The strength of a fusion comes not just from the gems, but also from the emotional bond between them. Yes, this is a setting where emotional connection can directly translate to physical power. What did you think the whole point of Garnet's "Made of Love" song was? If the emotional bond between two people is strong, the fusion between them will be stronger than they are individually, even if one of them isn't a gem in the first place.

[Flickerdart]

Well Pink Diamond was taken down at some point. I don't think the Diamonds are invincible, but their natures of their powers aren't well defined.

Hm... I think Malachite would probably beat a Diamond, assuming she's the most powerful Fusion so far.

Pink Diamond was defeated by a whole rebellion worth of gems. I don't think putting together two regular gems would be enough.

Then again, it's possible that hetero fusion has never ever actually been tried before Garnet. That seems like the only possible way that the Diamonds haven't all been defeated yet.

[Lord Raziere]

Pink Diamond was defeated by a whole rebellion worth of gems. I don't think putting together two regular gems would be enough.

Then again, it's possible that hetero fusion has never ever actually been tried before Garnet. That seems like the only possible way that the Diamonds haven't all been defeated yet.

I don't know.....why would Rose Quartz be singled out as the one who shattered Pink Diamond then? I don't remember anything in the show specifically saying that you need an entire army to take on one Diamond, just that Rose Quartz shattered Pink Diamond as if she did it with her own hand and everyone treating it as specifically Roses Thing That She Did. Everyone acts as if Diamonds are really powerful, showing instead of telling, but their actual capabilities of whether its needed for an entire army to take them down is never stated, and I doubt Rose was able to convert all the Gems to her side before the war ever started, so I imagine that most of the fighting was between Pink Diamond's forces and the Crystal Gem forces, with the rest of Homeworld Gems not considering it as big of a deal until Rose shattered Pink Diamond and thus prompting the Diamond's song-like attack that corrupted all the gems in response.

I mean, both Jasper and The One-Eyed Ruby were veterans of that war and clearly fought on Pink Diamond's side. If shattering a Pink Diamond was as hard as you say, you'd have to eliminate all other forces before that could occur, because any interference would diminish the needed amount of Gems to fight the big one. Pink Diamond clearly had forces of her own to fight against the Crystal Gems, yet Rose Quartz was the one able to defeat Pink Diamond- so much so that everyone remembers it as Rose Quartz specifically being the one doing it of her own decision and efforts. Its far more likely that the Diamonds need armies to fight wars like everyone else and it was so hard to get rid of her mostly because Rose Quartz needed forces to counter Pink Diamond's force like anyone else so she could get to Pink Diamond to shatter her.

[Friv]

Pink Diamond was defeated by a whole rebellion worth of gems. I don't think putting together two regular gems would be enough.

Then again, it's possible that hetero fusion has never ever actually been tried before Garnet. That seems like the only possible way that the Diamonds haven't all been defeated yet.

The Diamonds have armies. Lots and lots of armies. That's the reason that they haven't been defeated yet. It's not a simple matter of "walk up to Pink Diamond, punch her in the face, war over" - because if Alexandrite tries to walk up, she's going to be opposed by twenty five-Jasper fusions, and then where is she at?

[Flickerdart]

The Diamonds have armies. Lots and lots of armies. That's the reason that they haven't been defeated yet. It's not a simple matter of "walk up to Pink Diamond, punch her in the face, war over" - because if Alexandrite tries to walk up, she's going to be opposed by twenty five-Jasper fusions, and then where is she at?

That's not the issue. The issue is those twenty five-Jasper fusions deciding that they'd rather be the ones in charge, and staging a palace coup.

[Draconi Redfir]

so... i just had a scary thought...

Remember how Jasper and Eyeball kept calling Steven "Rose Quartz" after seeing his powers / gem?

Now, this is really dumb and i hope it's never done... but what if Steven's mom never shattered pink Diamond? What if it was some poorly-written plot where Steven and maybe connie somehow wind up time-traveling back to the war, and maybe more due to Connie's warrior mindset then much else, Stevonnie is the one who shatters pink Dimond. But because she has only a Rose Quartz gem and Rose Quartz weapons, the Gems only see her as a Roze Quartz and the blame is put onto Steven's mother?

Reeeally hope that's not the case since that's would severely undermine a lot of things and probably make the show jump the shark... but at the same time i could see it happening.

[Flickerdart]

We haven't seen time travel yet, and that kind of thing tends to be introduced pretty early on.

[Friv]

That's not the issue. The issue is those twenty five-Jasper fusions deciding that they'd rather be the ones in charge, and staging a palace coup.

That's what all the indoctrination, training, and compartmentalization is for. A Diamond doesn't have to be physically stronger than her entire army. She only has to be physically stronger than whatever tiny percentage of that army is likely to try to suddenly attack her, minus all of the loyalists who would fight that somebody.

For a comparsion, look at all of the nations throughout history that have included bodyguards for their leaders, i.e. most of them. In nearly every real-world situation, no ruler is up to fighting off all of their own palace guards, and yet plenty of leaders get through their entire reigns without getting murdered.

Of course, some leaders do get murdered by their own guards. Their indoctrination was obviously not good enough.

[Flickerdart]

Of course, some leaders do get murdered by their own guards. Their indoctrination was obviously not good enough.

Yeah, that's literally my point. This is an empire that has lasted longer than human civilization and possibly the human race. If the Diamonds were not physically stronger than a mere Jasper fusion, their regime would not be this stable.

[tonberrian]

We haven't seen time travel yet, and that kind of thing tends to be introduced pretty early on.

Do you not remember the whole episode who's plot was that Steven travels back in time and messes with himself and others?

[Flickerdart]

Do you not remember the whole episode who's plot was that Steven travels back in time and messes with himself and others?

I guess not. Which one was that?

[Draconi Redfir]

thankfully "Steven and the Stevens" was limited to a single day.

the time Garnet gave Steven her future vision so he could re-live the experiance of trying and failing to get connie home again and again could possibly work as well. though in all truth it was being in the past seeing future after future after future, rather then a traditional groundhog day thing.

[Flickerdart]

Oh man, I think I actually never saw that episode!

[ellindsey]

Oh man, I think I actually never saw that episode!

It's fairly forgettable. I'm hoping the time travel was just an example of early episode weirdness and not something they plan on reusing.

[Snowbluff]

......Or y'know, fusions just work on Anime New Form Logic and get more powerful because its a different form? because I'm pretty sure that SU has anime inspirations:

-Protagonist eats a lot of food. check
-protagonist lives with three or more female people that are not blood relation. check.
-Protagonist can fuse with other people. check
-rather than using guns in a modern setting, the protagonists instead opt to use fancy or impractical magical versions of medieval weapons. check
-protagonists are stronger and faster than ordinary humans and constantly make high jumps and actions that cause collateral damage to their surroundings. check
-everyone has a special power for a random reason relating to the special thing on the show. check
-antagonists are cosmic overlords who rarely get to use their full power, and the only time they did it was an attack that covered an entire planet. check
-lesser antagonists are not just fought against, but befriended after their reason for fighting is shown to be wrong. check.
-protagonist undergoes training arcs. check.
-biggest fusion fights resemble godzilla or giant mecha fights. check.
-has an otaku parody. check.
-protagonist is an inheritor of a great legacy that he learns more about through his adventures. check.
-the universe is centered around badasses fighting each other over a status quo that has existed for thousands of years and the protagonist's coming changes things through his willingness to spare his opponents. check.

I think SU is just that anime dude. Its just anime enough to have fusions be powerful because they're fusions.

Read up on your DBZ. That's the basis for fusion, to the point where Smoky rips her line's from Gojita. Fusion is dependent on the power of the parts.

The strength of a fusion comes not just from the gems, but also from the emotional bond between them. Yes, this is a setting where emotional connection can directly translate to physical power. What did you think the whole point of Garnet's "Made of Love" song was? If the emotional bond between two people is strong, the fusion between them will be stronger than they are individually, even if one of them isn't a gem in the first place.

life magic. Leeches. Different terms for the same truth. The energy doesn't come from magical love power. Garnet is strong because she's two gems with complimentary abilities. The love part is largely a contributor of the stability of the fusion, and Garnet thinks it's the best.

Love isn't the only to make a strong fusion. The, on the other hand we have Connie. Love doesn't make a fusion strong. Connie, without magical life energy, is just a sack of organs that happens to find Steven agreeable. This life energy is used to make gems, so it's the same power that makes a fusion better.

What is it really? I don't know. We don't need love to make a gem or a fusion, though.

Pink Diamond was defeated by a whole rebellion worth of gems. I don't think putting together two regular gems would be enough.

Then again, it's possible that hetero fusion has never ever actually been tried before Garnet. That seems like the only possible way that the Diamonds haven't all been defeated yet.

Malachite isn't two regular gems. It's the strongest, most impressive Jasper, with possibly the last era 1 Lapis, who is exceptionally strong on this particular planet. Malachite is a perfect storm as far as Earth based fusions go.

Adding up disparate abilities would likely make better fusions. I do wonder why it's banned. The show seems to imply extended fusion is bad for the independence of the constituent gems. Maybe the effect is worse on different gems? The Diamonds might consider such a fusion a threat, but they mostly seem to think everything is beneath them.

[Flickerdart]

Adding up disparate abilities would likely make better fusions. I do wonder why it's banned. The show seems to imply extended fusion is bad for the independence of the constituent gems. Maybe the effect is worse on different gems? The Diamonds might consider such a fusion a threat, but they mostly seem to think everything is beneath them.

Is hetero fusion banned? I probably need to rewatch that episode, but "how dare you fuse with a member of my court?" seems to be a condemnation of the act, not of its specifics.

Maybe a society as regimented as Homeworld probably gets confused about the new types of gems that are created out of a hetero fusion? "What is a Garnet? We do not have a listed purpose for Garnets. Therefore, Garnet should not exist." And they never came up with it themselves because "We need strong fighters, let's stack our existing fighters together" makes sense and they didn't see the need to push it further.

[endoperez]

Read up on your DBZ. That's the basis for fusion, to the point where Smoky rips her line's from Gojita. Fusion is dependent on the power of the parts.

Fusion might come from DBZ, where the power of its parts. Fusion in Steven Universe is different.
Claiming that fusion in this show works exactly like fusion in DBZ is like saying that Garnet hitting things is exactly like boxing, and that the rules of boxing apply to Garnet.

Gems might be some sort of parasitic beings (growing gems in Kindergartens seems to drain life-force out of the planet), or they might not. If they are, fusion might or might not be some sort of a parasitic relationship in some cases, instead of symbiotic.

But as far as the show goes, fusion is generally shown in a positive way, and as a good thing, and as a symbiotic, co-operative thing. Leeching is a negative thing, so it'd seem to be against this show's message, so I don't think Stevonnie is a leech of any kind, or a parasite of any kind, or consuming any sort of finite resource or causing any sort of damage to Earth.