Worm WW

[Logic]

Why does technetium43 stand out as suspicious? Their claim was pretty much confirmed by night one.

It looks like I need to reread, because I must have attributed someone else's posts to Tech.

Silent_Interim being defended by JBPuffin does stand out as odd, but not yet damning.

The lint-taffee monster sat on a fence-post, chewing her chewing gum.
Playing with her yo-yo
"Dew-OP! Dew-OP! Dew-OP!"
And along came Herman the Worm.
And he was THIS ([---------------------------]) BIG!
And so lint-lady said
"Herman! What happened!?"
And he said
"Uh-duuuuh, I ate a flat_footed."
"Okay but why though?" Taffee Lint asked.
"He was protecting someone while giving no reason as to why that person was deserving of protection."

Xihirli, stop voting for the dead.

[Murska]

I could go for Silent Interim, but on the other hand, SI did vote for JBPuffin at a rather important point.

/Reading too much into things mode activated/
Xihirli is apparently in contact with whoever killed Panacea. Herman the Worm, possibly Crawler?
/Deactivate/

[Silent_Interim]

As far as Puffin defending me- there are any number of reasons a wolf might defend a non-wolf, especially as the day wanes. The logic it might depend on may certainly be flawed.

Suppose I flip town. Anyone defending me looks slightly better, right? JB, knowing as a wolf whether or not I'm town, could then defend me, not expecting that the wagon might suddenly shift, thus making them look better. Not saying that's what happened, though I would say that I was... really weirded out by JB defending me.

Also, if we were wolf buddies? I would be really, really pissed at JB. Because defending me, if I were a wolf, out in the open, with no reason to suppose the wagon might shift? That would be two wolves down. If I'm a wolf, then that was a terrible, terrible play on my/our part. And I'm not in the habit of making terrible plays, at least on purpose.

[Murska]

You were considering claiming yesterday, but decided to put it off despite the major wagon on you. Saying something about how we'd understand why it was a difficult decision if we heard it. But since knowing your role name doesn't let us know your power, I'm not sure why that would be. Any updates on that now that it's a new day and you're again under suspicion?

[Silent_Interim]

since knowing your role name doesn't let us know your power,

Point of order- it doesn't strictly tell you but it gives you important information. If I tell you I'm someone who has a PRT classification of Striker or Blaster it gives you an idea of what my power is- clearly aggressive. It's not my power, but it's important information about my power. Besides which, it's unlikely I wouldn't be pressured to tell people what my power is if I claim a name, even if people don't work it out by wiki-ing.

You were considering claiming yesterday, but decided to put it off despite the major wagon on you. Saying something about how we'd understand why it was a difficult decision if we heard it. But since knowing your role name doesn't let us know your power, I'm not sure why that would be. Any updates on that now that it's a new day and you're again under suspicion?

Yes. Since the wagon is no longer quite so overwhelming, I'm even less comfortable claiming. If it is necessary to avoid my lynching, I might.

[Murska]

I don't see why people would pressure you into claiming a power, when the name already does what we want - makes you open to being counterclaimed.

It's true that your name tells something of your power, however. But everyone has a power, it's not easy for the S9 to prioritize especially now that the by far most important name of the bunch, Panacea, is gone.

[Lady Serpentine]

I'm fairly suspicious of Duck999 just now. Technetium and flat_footed were both thoroughly in the clear. Saving Forum Explorer would have made sense; there was a pretty big wagon on them to the end, and they had an uncountered claim. But by the time that post was made, there were only two votes on flat_footed, none on Technetium, and nobody was making any noises about lynching them despite the claim they made.

Or, to put it another way, the suspicious part is not the vote itself (I voted for SI briefly before thinking about it and deciding that while I was okay with either the wagon wasn't so overwhelming as to make going after JBPuffin pointless) but the proclaimed reasoning, so let's put some pressure on there.

That said, with the non-answer from Silent_Interim, I am pretty happy to back the pressure wagon on them; they weren't ever really cleared yesterday, and they've been even more suspicious today. Particularly as both days they've been running under the radar - an early vote at random and some blandly neutral advice yesterday, and nothing at all until they were brought up again today.

(I also haven't seen any reads (town or wolf) from them. And no vote today either, not even to pressure our other candidates. Which fits with trying to stay out of sight until suspicion dies down.)

[Silent_Interim]

I'm fairly suspicious of Duck999 just now. Technetium and flat_footed were both thoroughly in the clear. Saving Forum Explorer would have made sense; there was a pretty big wagon on them to the end, and they had an uncountered claim. But by the time that post was made, there were only two votes on flat_footed, none on Technetium, and nobody was making any noises about lynching them despite the claim they made.

Or, to put it another way, the suspicious part is not the vote itself (I voted for SI briefly before thinking about it and deciding that while I was okay with either the wagon wasn't so overwhelming as to make going after JBPuffin pointless) but the proclaimed reasoning, so let's put some pressure on there.

That said, with the non-answer from Silent_Interim, I am pretty happy to back the pressure wagon on them; they weren't ever really cleared yesterday, and they've been even more suspicious today. Particularly as both days they've been running under the radar - an early vote at random and some blandly neutral advice yesterday, and nothing at all until they were brought up again today.

(I also haven't seen any reads (town or wolf) from them. And no vote today either, not even to pressure our other candidates. Which fits with trying to stay out of sight until suspicion dies down.)

That's... actually just my playstyle. I am relatively quiet. All the time. I don't consider myself a very skilled player, so I don't give a lot of reads unless I'm under intense pressure to do so. I don't usually follow threads all that closely. And I don't have any strong reads. I was kind of waiting for someone to come up with an alternative idea. Duck999 will do.

[Tom the Mime]

Point of order- it doesn't strictly tell you but it gives you important information. If I tell you I'm someone who has a PRT classification of Striker or Blaster it gives you an idea of what my power is- clearly aggressive. It's not my power, but it's important information about my power. Besides which, it's unlikely I wouldn't be pressured to tell people what my power is if I claim a name, even if people don't work it out by wiki-ing.

Yes. Since the wagon is no longer quite so overwhelming, I'm even less comfortable claiming. If it is necessary to avoid my lynching, I might.

Resisting giving any information though is almost claiming on it's own, basically claiming to be powerful for one reason or another.

We've basically got a confirmed GG in addition to done probable town firms so claim to one of them at the very least.

Silent_Interim

[Silent_Interim]

Resisting giving any information though is almost claiming on it's own, basically claiming to be powerful for one reason or another.

Uh.... no. I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you on that. Why would refusing to claim be equivalent to claiming something powerful, given that this is an all-powered game? You're reading way too much into that.

We've basically got a confirmed GG in addition to done probable town firms so claim to one of them at the very least.

Why would I do that over a claim to town-at-large?

[Ronnoc]

Uh.... no. I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you on that. Why would refusing to claim be equivalent to claiming something powerful, given that this is an all-powered game? You're reading way too much into that.



Why would I do that over a claim to town-at-large?

Because it provides a confirmed townie with information while denying it to the wolves?

[Tom the Mime]

Resisting giving any information under significant pressure kinda implies a claim that either your power is very useful for town and the wolves would kill you for it or it doesn't work well if people know about it.

As for claiming to one pretty much confirmed town as opposed to everyone, I thought it'd be fairly obvious. So the wolves don't get told as well and so that the wolves don't find out any info that comes from that either.

[Silent_Interim]

Because it provides a confirmed townie with information while denying it to the wolves?

As for claiming to one pretty much confirmed town as opposed to everyone, I thought it'd be fairly obvious. So the wolves don't get told as well and so that the wolves don't find out any info that comes from that either.

Okay, that's fair. Sorry, I'm so rarely in the position of actually having any reason to claim at all that this had not actually occurred to me.

Resisting giving any information under significant pressure kinda implies a claim that either your power is very useful for town and the wolves would kill you for it or it doesn't work well if people know about it.

1) By not mentioning it, you essentially disregarded the latter possibility in your earlier post.
2) "Powerful" is not necessarily the same as "High kill priority."

[RoTWS]

I could almost see the suspicion, so thickly it hung in the air.

"Silent_Interim," I said, "are you, perhaps, afraid of a counterclaim from an enemy of yours? It would certainly explain your timidity about claiming. Though how would you know someone else would claim your role?

"Nonetheless, we must look at the timing. As Murska said, the moment Silent_Interim saw the analysis of C'nor about JBPuffin, he attacked the one who saved him. Let them speak to Technetium43, the one who is most likely a townie, to judge their honesty. Duck999, however, voted long after it was essentially confirmed flat and Tech were GG and PanPan, and as such the listed reason for the vote (to save them) holds no water because they were no longer in danger. What other motives could they have, I wonder?"

Edit: Added clarification.

[Murska]

Okay, I can confirm that Silent Interim has claimed to me privately, however it's not, uh, counterclaimable and I can't check it myself. In addition someone else has claimed to me privately that they have scried Silent Interim as part of the Slaughterhouse 9. (a Cape team scry, apparently) Both of these claims include the vague information that SI is 'difficult to kill', however.

I don't really know what else to do with that.

[Lady Serpentine]

I am inclined believe the scry - there is no way a wolf could reasonably guess that information and have it match the claim without being a seer of some kind, and if they are a seer, I'll take that trade.

[Xihirli]

Pile-ons don't yield much information to town.
I don't disbelieve any evidence coming up, but it seems odd that so much incrimination against SI has come up around the time pressure on Duck999 is building.

[Ronnoc]

Shared details from seperate sources lends credence to the scry claim. I'm guessing that makes SI either Mannequin, King, or Crawler as all of those have nigh unkillable as part of their portfolio.

[Thematthew]

Can confirm SI's statement, they really tend to put the Silent in Silent_Interim.

Looking things over, I'm actually kinda suspicious of the Iceseer/Tom the Mime connection. I can really see using that as a safe claim (being masons) in a game where the whole setup should stop anybody from knowing anyone else except the wolves and GG/Panacea.

I can agree that SI should claim to Glory Girl though, that way we can compartmentalize claims. We don't want the S9 getting information of who has been claimed after all.

As far as reads go, here's what I've got:

Town
Murska: He's acting like he normally would, and I feel like I have a reason to believe his claim.
Neutral
C'nor: Though being very helpful, I don't feel that serving up a member of the S9 on day one is actually clearing of a person. And anybody who talks up their ability to catch wolves day 1 earns a bit of my distrust naturally. The only times that I've seen actual "analysis" catch a wolf on day 1 involved the wolf being a newer player who made a mistake, or people attributing meaning to statements like 'Day 1 analysis is useless.'
Xihirli: I feel like I've said it enough for it to be in my signature, I can never get a read on Xihirli. She's just Xihirli.
Forum Explorer: Though I don't see a huge reason to immediately discount their claim, we know not all the roles available are out there and that they are claiming to have been voided.
Wolf
Iceseer/Tom the Mime: Like I said, multiple groups of masons doesn't strike me as ringing true in a game based on the Prey Arc. The only people who were unaffected by the miasma were S9, Panacea, and possibly Sundancer though we would have noticed a walking ball of fire in our midst if she did what she needed to be unaffected.

I would also like to point out that claiming a scry of somebody and then, when they turn out to not be what you claimed, claiming that you must have a fool scry is probably a pretty safe choice for the wolf team, given that we could potentially have multiple information roles. Or claiming that a seer contacted you for that matter.

I also don't know why people are claiming to Murska instead of Tech. One of them has been vetted by the death of their teammate, the other is being vetted by the lack of a counterclaim in a game with more roles than players. From an uninformed perspective, that seems crazy.

[Silent_Interim]

I also don't know why people are claiming to Murska instead of Tech. One of them has been vetted by the death of their teammate, the other is being vetted by the lack of a counterclaim in a game with more roles than players. From an uninformed perspective, that seems crazy.

Couple of things.

1) Murska has claimed as a character with a known team. It's entirely possible they've got some contact, there are some powers there that could reasonably do that.
2) Murska is really damn good at the game.

[Murska]

The only times that I've seen actual "analysis" catch a wolf on day 1 involved the wolf being a newer player who made a mistake, or people attributing meaning to statements like 'Day 1 analysis is useless.'

Eh, yesterday was a valid example. I could also dig up that one LOTR game where I lynched ATPG on day one. Analysis never really gives you any guarantees of your target, or it shouldn't anyway, but the whole point is to push wolves into making those little mistakes that come with them knowing more than us, and then spotting and acting on them to get a lynch that's more likely to kill a wolf than a purely random one would.

[Silent_Interim]

Neutral
C'nor: Though being very helpful, I don't feel that serving up a member of the S9 on day one is actually clearing of a person. And anybody who talks up their ability to catch wolves day 1 earns a bit of my distrust naturally.

...where, exactly, did this "talking up" occur? I don't remember that.

[Konatsat]

Considering this makes me two for two on day one wolf lynches (at least, I think that that was my last game), yes, I imagine they'll be none too keen on keeping me alive.

I'm guessing they mean this. Also, here's a vote count:

Duck999: Murska, Silent_Interim, RoTWS, Xihirli, Kartoffelbrein
Silent_Interim: Rakkoon, Ronnoc, C'nor, Tom the Mime

Duck999 has a slight lead in votes for now.

[Silent_Interim]

I'm guessing they mean this.

...that. Comes across as a joke to me. I really hope they're not basing analysis on that, because. It really just seems like a joke to me.

[Tom the Mime]

I assume they can't protect themselves/each other?

Regardless, I was voided last turn. I targeted Iceseer, so they are not a voider. (I think my ability would trump them voiding someone, but maybe not).

I was loudly suspecting Iceseer from the start, but as a quasi-Seer, I'm an easy pick for a voider to target me regardless. So I'm not sure where to go from here.

Given this and some other stuff, I feel I should clear up my claim more. I'm Grue, making Iceseer Imp, who scries fail against.

With Murska, he hasn't claimed starting in contact with anyone. Lack of counterclaim helps a little but definitely not confirmed town from that. Being good at the game just means he's more likely to be able to hoodwink you.

This only makes me suspect SI more, given that everyone seems to start in a team. Assuming starting in contact because of being in a team suggests they don't know town side teams don't start in contact. That implies they're not in a town sided team and hence S9.

[Silent_Interim]

Given this and some other stuff, I feel I should clear up my claim more. I'm Grue, making Iceseer Imp, who scries fail against.

With Murska, he hasn't claimed starting in contact with anyone. Lack of counterclaim helps a little but definitely not confirmed town from that. Being good at the game just means he's more likely to be able to hoodwink you.

This only makes me suspect SI more, given that everyone seems to start in a team. Assuming starting in contact because of being in a team suggests they don't know town side teams don't start in contact. That implies they're not in a town sided team and hence S9.

Couple of things.

1) Murska has claimed as a character with a known team. It's entirely possible they've got some contact, there are some powers there that could reasonably do that.
2) Murska is really damn good at the game.

Does this look like me saying every team starts in contact? No. I'm specifically saying I think it's plausible some of that specific team started in contact. The thing that makes me think this? Tattletale has one of the strongest Thinker powers I can recall off-hand, and Skitter has a power that can plausibly be used for communication. Of course the majority of teams don't start in contact. You're twisting my words. I don't appreciate it.

You're right that Murska's not guaranteed town, but given that there's a limited number of roles, claiming any specific role you're not as a wolf when you don't really have to is... odd, as a play? I'm convinced Murska is town. He claimed a listed role, and it went unchallenged. That seems really risky for a wolf. Especially since we know there are unlisted roles. Like Imp.

[RoTWS]

SI does keep digging themself deeper, apparently. They likely assumed the teams would get in conflict with one another as quickly as possible once one publicly revealed themselves, so the other Undersiders (including, allegedly, Tom and Iceseer) would contact Murska once she claimed. Still, something sounds strange.

Not changing my vote, though, because Duck is apparently trying to avoid scrutiny as much as possible, and that's also suspicious given his current prominence on the votes. Still, I'm keeping an eye on them both.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thought: is SI's signature ironic or factual?

[Tom the Mime]

Does this look like me saying every team starts in contact? No. I'm specifically saying I think it's plausible some of that specific team started in contact. The thing that makes me think this? Tattletale has one of the strongest Thinker powers I can recall off-hand, and Skitter has a power that can plausibly be used for communication. Of course the majority of teams don't start in contact. You're twisting my words. I don't appreciate it.

Slightly misinterpreted your post, but I don't think what was inferred as particularly unreasonable. Not solid but not unreasonable. Also Murska basically flat out asked (in character) for Tattletale and Skitter to get in contact with him.

You're right that Murska's not guaranteed town, but given that there's a limited number of roles, claiming any specific role you're not as a wolf when you don't really have to is... odd, as a play? I'm convinced Murska is town. He claimed a listed role, and it went unchallenged. That seems really risky for a wolf. Especially since we know there are unlisted roles. Like Imp.

There may be more unlisted roles but I wouldn't bet on it. Imp's power makes so much sense to be unlisted (so much so that some people guessed it when I made the sibling claim) so I think any other unlisted roles would likely fall in that category.
I don't know if it's the case here, but narrators sometimes give wolves a list of unused roles to stop the game being broken by mass role claims.

[Thematthew]

Anybody can flat out ask for somebody to get in touch with them, also

Spoiler: Fat that disputes the in character part, don't read if you haven't read the Prey Arc of Worm and don't want spoilers.

Show

Jack and Bonesaw convince Skitter that they are Tattletale and Grue until Cherish manages to tip her off that they're members of the 9.

Like this: Hey, I'm Trickster!* Sundancer, I need you to get in touch with me.

It proves nothing other than that they are willing to reach out, and can be really dangerous if people fall for it.

As far as people being in touch with each other at the start, the miasma made it so Skitter couldn't even remember what her Mother looked like so family is definitely not a reason to be in contact. This is enough for me to actually throw a vote onto Tom the Mime, because their story really isn't adding up for me.

Spoiler: Response to Murska being 'so good.' I don't want to derail discussion, but I feel I should say it.

Show

No offense intended Murska, but from what I've seen your play is mostly good but held back by a seeming inability to work well as a team. I still don't actually understand why everybody around here seems to think that you're so dangerous that you have to be killed first.

*I am not claiming Trickster, this is me just making a point. If you use this as evidence that I should be lynched, you are a wolf who is trying to drag town so far out into left field it's not even funny.

[Silent_Interim]

Slightly misinterpreted your post, but I don't think what was inferred as particularly unreasonable. Not solid but not unreasonable. Also Murska basically flat out asked (in character) for Tattletale and Skitter to get in contact with him.

...No, I think what you inferred was pretty unreasonable.

I haven't been paying much attention to the in-character stuff. I usually don't unless it's the bulk of a person's content. Which is so not the case for Murska.

There may be more unlisted roles but I wouldn't bet on it. Imp's power makes so much sense to be unlisted (so much so that some people guessed it
when I made the sibling claim) so I think any other unlisted roles would likely fall in that category.

Right, but there are plenty of Stranger-type roles. Further, there are characters that aren't Strangers but aren't well-known in setting, such as some of the Cauldron characters. Besides, my point was not that those roles are likely to exist, but that it would make sense for a wolf to claim them.

I don't know if it's the case here, but narrators sometimes give wolves a list of unused roles to stop the game being broken by mass role claims.

...I have literally never heard of this before. Could someone please confirm this to be true?