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2017-06-12, 04:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
So my DM and I like to troll each other. so I want to know whats the Cheeziest most god awfully power gamed build I could make in pathfinder with out using any 3rd party books or home-brew.
I want to have a truly villainous character that is OP as hell to show my DM just to make him cringe lol
this is for an 8th level game.
so again we can go full ham on this.
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2017-06-12, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Let me tell you, my friend, about the Conqueror Ooze.
A Cave Druid who wildshapes into a Carnivorous Crystal Ooze with a 7d8 Slam attack, which he Strong Jaws for a 14d8 Slam attack.
He then goes into Martial Artist Monk to be able to full attack with that 14d8 slam and also becomes immune to fatigue.
Then he Multis into Barbarian for Furious Finish so that that 14d8 is maximised with improved and greater vital strike for a total of 56d8 maximised dice (448 damage just from weapon dice alone) which is enough to One Punch Man most enemies. Because you are immune to fatigue, you can rage cycle and do this every round.
Ta dah?
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2017-06-12, 05:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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2017-06-12, 06:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
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2017-06-12, 06:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
half-orc thug unchained rogue/snakebite striker brawler
1 rogue 1: weapon finesse, sap adept, sneak attack 1d6
2 brawler 1: unarmed strike, sneak attack 2d6
3 rogue 2: evasion, weapon training (unarmed), enforcer
4 rogue 3: finesse training (unarmed), sneak attack 3d6
5 brawler 2: brawler's flurry, sap master, dazzling display(b)
6 rogue 4
7 rogue 5: accomplished sneak attacker 5d6
8 rogue 6: combat trick (shatter defenses)
Completely dex-based, doing 10d6+10 nonlethal sneak attack per attack with brawler's flurry, and free demoralize w/ shatter defenses on hit.
edit: With all 3 attacks and 20 dex, that's 33d6+45, or an average of 160.5 dmg
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2017-06-12, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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2017-06-12, 08:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Sorry for being short on words in my last post. I'll do better:
You need ten levels of druid, then five more of monk and a single level in barbarian. That means you are at least level 16. If I take greater Vital strike into consideration you need BAB +16. This means you are at least level 19 (10 druid, 5 monk and 4 barb or 8 monk and 1 barb; if the monk levels are unchained monk levels).
Regular characters at level 19 mostly fly in combat. So do enemies. You cannot use Wings of flying or any magic item that must be activated while wild shaped so it is highly likely that you stay on the ground. You would need to pay 60.000 GP to create a custom magic item of continuous fly that is use activated. Good luck finding a DM agreeing to that knowing your build. The obvious solution is getting another PC to cast fly for you but then you are susceptible to dispel magic or worse antimagic fields. Of course these hit anyone who rely on the fly spell but in your case it also invalidates half of your level progression because you cannot do the one trick you spent all those monk levels on.
Next problem I have: why exactly does the monk allow you to flurry with natural attacks because natural attacks are not unarmed strikes. So you cannot flurry with the slam. The rage cycle vital strike combo is legit although you only attack once (the attack action is a standard action). You are limited to your rage rounds which highly depends on how much barbarbarian levels you took. I'd reccomend you take quick wild shape to be able to go: move action to get close in non ooze form, free action rage, swift action wild shape, standard action greater vital strike. Then boom goes the dynamite. Why do you need the immunity to fatigue? Spending 5 levels on monk for that seems pointless to me. There surely are easier solutions (i.e. quickened lesser restoration, swift action which substitues for the swift action wild shape, heart of the fields: human racial trait, ignore fatigue once per day) if you need to hit in two consecutive rounds. So human druid 14/ barbarian 6 seems more legit to me. It has more wild shapes per day, more rages per day and more a better spells per day. You are limited to 20 ft. movement in Ooze form but only in the second round. Druid 19/barb 1 may even be better overall since greater vital strike is a major damage boost (damage from one slam would drop to 224) but you may be more useful overall.
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2017-06-12, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Yes I noticed that its only to 8th level, I posted as much later.
Regular characters at level 19 mostly fly in combat. So do enemies. You cannot use Wings of flying or any magic item that must be activated while wild shaped so it is highly likely that you stay on the ground. You would need to pay 60.000 GP to create a custom magic item of continuous fly that is use activated. Good luck finding a DM agreeing to that knowing your build. The obvious solution is getting another PC to cast fly for you but then you are susceptible to dispel magic or worse antimagic fields. Of course these hit anyone who rely on the fly spell but in your case it also invalidates half of your level progression because you cannot do the one trick you spent all those monk levels on.
Next problem I have: why exactly does the monk allow you to flurry with natural attacks because natural attacks are not unarmed strikes. So you cannot flurry with the slam.
The rage cycle vital strike combo is legit although you only attack once (the attack action is a standard action). You are limited to your rage rounds which highly depends on how much barbarbarian levels you took. I'd reccomend you take quick wild shape to be able to go: move action to get close in non ooze form, free action rage, swift action wild shape, standard action greater vital strike. Then boom goes the dynamite. Why do you need the immunity to fatigue?
Spending 5 levels on monk for that seems pointless to me.
There surely are easier solutions (i.e. quickened lesser restoration, swift action which substitues for the swift action wild shape, heart of the fields: human racial trait, ignore fatigue once per day) if you need to hit in two consecutive rounds. So human druid 14/ barbarian 6 seems more legit to me. It has more wild shapes per day, more rages per day and more a better spells per day. You are limited to 20 ft. movement in Ooze form but only in the second round. Druid 19/barb 1 may even be better overall since greater vital strike is a major damage boost (damage from one slam would drop to 224) but you may be more useful overall.
You are right in saying spells are more useful, overall, but I made this build to splat Balors in one hit, why put my eggs in other baskets?Last edited by prototype00; 2017-06-12 at 08:57 AM.
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2017-06-12, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
You are still a 30 feet slow ooze walking on air which is significantly slower than fly and most fly speeds. Of course your other mates would buff you, but let's not quarrel about how you come close, I think Quick wild shape is the best solution for that and can be included in the build even if you take 5 levels of monk (Druid 14, Monk 5, Barb 1).
Feral combat Training (Slam), I too was being parsimonious with my words.
Furious finish immediately ends your rage. Then you become fatigued, and cannot enter a rage again as per the rules. If you are immune to fatigue, this solves the problem.
Its for immunity to fatigue, flurry of blows with the slam (the only way to get a full attack with the slam, if you have more than one foe, you probably want to hit them too) and improved movement speed, all things the build desperately requires.
What if you are facing 4 or more enemies (I think this is basically more than 50% of encounters in adventure paths)?
You are right in saying spells are more useful, overall, but I made this build to splat Balors in one hit, why put my eggs in other baskets?
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2017-06-12, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
To each their own, for the speed I personally pick up the Rage power Swift Foot x3, so thats 45 ft, I mean, sure I could be fighting the Flash, but its usually enough to close with everything else, or did you have more quibbles?
Ah, they faq'ed damage dice, about time too. Well 48d6 is still better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
As to the monk levels, you strike me as someone who doesn't want to be convinced, so lets just say I think the immunity to fatigue for Rage Cycling is worth it, and you don't and leave it at that. You do what you want with the build, I was only the one to make it after all, I'm not going to come around your house with a billy club for tinkering with my build.
prototype00Last edited by prototype00; 2017-06-12 at 10:55 AM.
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2017-06-12, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Actually, the table in the FAQ rises 7d8 to 16d6. It says that to rise by one step, you actually go two steps on the table, and when you have a number of d8's not listed in the table, you pick the next highest number in the table and use it as d6's. So 7d8 is 8d6, which rises to 12d6, which finally rises to 16d6. Greater vital strike is 64d6, which deals 384 with Furious Finish. That means you only need a +1 Str mod to one shot a Balor through its DR, supposing you are not using Magic Fang or similar stuff.
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2017-06-12, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
True. Did overlook the fact that one size increase is two steps not one. So the Balor is still toast. Thanks for clearing that up.
@prototype00
You already convinced me about many things. I simply value 9th level spells higher than you. If you would make me choose between one slamming every encounter in the bestiary and 9th levels spells, I'd choose 9th level spells. Agreed to disagree I guess. Props for the build too, it is well done.
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2017-06-12, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-06-12, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
@ prototype00
It is indeed a interesting build really did not expect the ooze lol
and I know as a DM I probably ban hammer it lol thanks mate XD I think my DM will laugh.
unfortunately this build doesn't work for me after running the numbers my self you don't get wild shape ooze until level 10 druid.Last edited by Athear; 2017-06-12 at 02:14 PM.
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2017-06-12, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Can someone explain why you think you get the 7d8 damage slam? This is pathfinder, not 3.5. You gain a slam attack, but it deals 1d4 damage. Beast shape IS NOT going to give you Razor Sharp, which is presumably the thing making that damage happen.
Last edited by exelsisxax; 2017-06-12 at 02:24 PM.
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2017-06-12, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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2017-06-12, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Doesn't solve the problem even if it were true, which it is clearly not by the description of the ability. Polymorph effects grant you the natural attacks, but none of their statistics. You get "a slam", not a +18 7d8+9 slam. You usually get what's listed, but only because most monsters follow standard progression and are merely size based.
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2017-06-12, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
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2017-06-12, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
You could always cheese a build using the Mage Guild bonuses from Inner Sea Magic. All to easy to make up 1-3 CL including spell progression for some gold and trivial skill checks. At 35 Fame so level 7-8 depending, you could make up 3CL in one class and 1CL in another.
So things like Paladin2/Scaled Monk1/Sorcerer5 will cast like a level 8 Sorc with Cha to saves and AC. Throw in some Favored Prestige Class and you can Gish into DD/EK and still be a full caster.
Wiz3/Cleric1/MT4 using Equipment Trick Sunrod (Like the Sun) for early entry will cast as a Wiz8/Cleric8.
Could always go party of 1. Play a tier 1 caster grab a UMD using Improved Familiar and a tanky Animal Companion and enjoy being a one man army.
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2017-06-12, 11:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Not sure what part of my post wasn't true. The first sentence of razor sharp doesn't contain any word linked to a rule. It is merely descriptive. Just like the first sentence of the ooze's subsonic hum ability. This is what the text would have to say to justify your interpretation:
Razor Sharp
The slam attack of a carnivorous crystal deals 7d8 damage instead of the usual 1d4 for s medium creature.
Then it would be an Ex ability increasing the slam damage. Thex way it is written it is an Ex ability that increases crit range.
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2017-06-13, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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2017-06-13, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-06-13, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
This is not consistent with Pathfinder's printed material in the Pathfinder RPG hardcover line. Villain Codex page 148 has a tenth level druid wildshaped into a behemoth hippopotamus with an 8d8 sized bite attack ( up from 4d8, accounting for them having strongjaw cast on themselves). Furthermore, the Polymorph rules state you gain the natural attacks "of the base creature". There are default natural weapon sizes listed under the univeral monster rules, IIRC, but the polymorph rules don't cite them, they cite the creature you're polymorphed into.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
My Homebrew:Spoiler
The Clanhold Warden - Dwarf Racial Archetype for Dreamscarred Press' Warder
Glorious Thunder - The God's own wrath as a Paladin's ranged option.
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2017-06-13, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
The thing is, there is no such thing as "You get a slam". It is always "You get an X base damage slam". The same is true for all other natural attacks, as there are many different ways to get natural attacks, all of them stating their base damage and for some of them it's different.
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2017-06-13, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Sorry, MT is Mystic Theurge. DD was Dragon Disciple. EK was Eldritch Knight.
The basic party of 1 trick done on a Cleric would require a Domain that gives a full scaling Animal Companion or taking the feat that raises Druid level by 4, Skill Focus Knowledge (any), Eldritch Heritage (Arcane), and then Improved Familiar. So a base Charisma of 13 and 3 feats.
Unfortunately I am afb, so I can't do much to help with Inner Sea Magic.
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2017-06-13, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
The cheesiest build will probably involve Sacred Geometry and Ascendant Spell. Beyond that though, PF tends to have a lower ceiling than 3.5.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2017-06-13, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
I loved this build! So, I've been doing some research and I found some interesting stuff. First, I've looked into basically all (most, actually) animals, giants and stuff to wild shape into to see if we had other interesting options beside this infamous ooze. Since we need strong jaw, we must find a high base damage natural attacker. The ones I found so far were the Behemoth Hippopotamus and the Arsinoitherium, both with a single 4d8 base natural attack, the hippo with a bite and the other with a gore. They're both animals, so no need to get frisky with druid archetypes. The thing we were not including in our calculations is the Improved Natural Attack feat.
To qualify for this feat, all we need is a permanent natural attack. Skinwalkers are the best bet for it, they can even get a gore attack. Other races can easily get a bite attack with the Adopted (Tusked) trait. The feat would pump the 4d8 into 6d8, so that strong jaws make it into 12d8. Guess what, 12d8 Furious Finish is the same damage as a 16d6 one! So you don't need to morph into the ooze to deal 384 base damage and one shot stuff, a big hippo or that weird rhino can both do the same damage as the ooze with the help of this one feat. Of course, that feat could help the ooze too if only we could get a natural slam attack. I didn't find a way to do so, though. Any ideas?
Secondly, lesser restoration has a 3 rounds casting time. We can't quicken it! I found another way to be imune to fatigue, though. You can dip 1 level into Oracle for the Lame curse. The trick is that the curse scales with oracle level plus every 2 other levels. So 1 level into oracle plus 8 levels into anything gives us immunity to fatigue. As a drawback, our land speed goes down. It's not so bad because barbarian gives us more speed, but it could be a problem if we were morphing into the ooze. Also, it's only land speed, so that means nothing when we fly. Also, there's this item called Cord of Stubborn Resolve that gives us immunity to fatigue too, though it occupies the important belt slot.
What do you think?
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2017-06-13, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
One caveat, I was going over the errata about size of weapons, and it states you can only have one actual size increase and one "as if" size increase to damage. Becoming a huge angry hippo is an actual size increase, and applying Strong Jaw is an "as if" size increase. Improved Natural Attack is also an "as if" size increase to damage, and thus does not stack if I don't miss my guess. So Hippos and Rhinos get 8d8 damage (32d8 with greater vital strike), nice but no Conqueror Ooze.
prototype00
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2017-06-13, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2017
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Oh, I see. That's sad, then. But becoming the huge hippo is not actually a size increase, you can still cast Animal Growth on you. It will cost you another action, which might be a lot if you can't buff before the encounter. I hope you have a good scout. There is also another way to become big, and that is being lv4 Bloodrager with the abyssal bloodline. This way, you grow in size when you rage, no matter your creature type. You could use this to make the ooze grow bigger too, going for absurd amounts of cheese! So, instead of barbarian 1 and monk 5, you could go bloodrager 4 and oracle 1. You will have rage, immunity to fatigue and a size increase. There is no more table beyond 16d6 damage, but following the logic, I think it should rise to 24d6. That would go to a whooping 96d6 vital strike, dealing 576 absurds amount of damage in one punch! That would be the ultimate ooze!
Whoah, that's some cheese right there! I checked Inner Sea Magic to understand it, and it states that the guild bonus only rises effective caster level. Other class features aren't affected, so either the animal companion or the familiar won't scale any further. The full casting gish is interesting, though. The DD can be absurd with natural attacks and won't be a one trick pony like most cheese builds.
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2017-06-13, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: Need a god awfully cheesy build for Pathfinder
Chiming in, since a Behemoth Hippo is a critter in its own right, not a Hippo with a size increase applied, surely it can have Strong Jaw for the two-level increase, although it doesn't stack with INA.
4d8 Strong Jaws up to 12d6 and then on through the vital strike chain.