Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

[Scowling Dragon]

The article specifies black female lead. Her actual quote though states "black lead" which is just plain wrong.

They changed the article. It was just black lead before

[2D8HP]

So apparently one marketing push is how the story has a black lead and so it's shattering the ceiling yo! ...

Because that undermines the article. Sisko was awesome.

Just more evidence the idiots in charge of this imminent train wreck know NOTHING about Star Trek.

Seriously. DS9 already had a black lead. 24 freaking years ago.

I really don't know if just one man counts as a "rivalry", but author David Brin has posted many different times about "why Start Trek is better than Star Wars,

here's one

As for the intra-Star Trek debate, I'd go:

1) Sisko

2) Kirk

3) Janeway

4) Picard

5) Archer.

Why is Picard so low?

Q.

I hated any episodes with Q (which ruined the pilot "Encounter at Farpoint").

Sisko was my favorite Captain, but they were all good (except Archer , how many shower scenes does a series need?)

Oh man it really has been 24 years!

Anyway, I had to "Google" [Independent Star Trek] to read the article, because the link didn't work for me, but from what little I could glean besides all the back-patting made it seem like it could be good.

I'd like to see Sonequa Martin-Green and Michelle Yeoh in Star Fleet uniforms, IF I COULD ACTUALLY WATCH THE DAMN THING!

CURSE YOU CBS FOR NOT BROADCASTING!

[Friv]

To be fair, the article also said that she's the first black captain, and she's not a captain at all. I think that interviewer has no clue about Star Trek, and it is possible that neither does the person being interviewed.

It is still pretty rough, though. Especially since the article is making a big deal about there being two women of colour as leads, when all the rumours are that Michelle Yeoh isn't actually a lead at all.

[Legato Endless]

No, I've never had a "cable package" of any sort.

All my television viewing is from an antenna, and DVD's from the llibrary (and

Anyway, if if the new Star Trek isn't broadcast, I'm likely to never see it, just like I may no longer watch Doctor Who, or anything apparently except "Jeopardy" and the like which seems to be mostly what is broadcast.

Actually you might still be in luck. I also live in the US, but there's a local viewing party at a theater in my area. They'll be showing the first two episodes free. I'd recommend taking a look at local events.

[2D8HP]

Actually you might still be in luck. I also live in the US, but there's a local viewing party at a theater in my area. They'll be showing the first two episodes free. I'd recommend taking a look at local events.

Thanks!

---

Also a quick search this morning (first I've done on Discovery) says that Yeoh is to be the Captain, but Martin-Green is to be the lead.

[Scowling Dragon]

To be fair, the article also said that she's the first black captain, and she's not a captain at all. I think that interviewer has no clue about Star Trek, and it is possible that neither does the person being interviewed.

It is still pretty rough, though. Especially since the article is making a big deal about there being two women of colour as leads, when all the rumours are that Michelle Yeoh isn't actually a lead at all.

They again also changed the article later (Secretly without telling). I got linked to the article by twitter, where it was how it remained originally.
Also Cisko captained a ship in the show every once in a while.

The fact that the person being interviewed has no knowledge of star treck whilst being a lead....Ha.

[Chen]

To be fair, the article also said that she's the first black captain, and she's not a captain at all. I think that interviewer has no clue about Star Trek, and it is possible that neither does the person being interviewed.

Defining it by rank rather than lead role is even worse since there have been a number of black female captains throughout Star Trek history though clearly none were main characters or anything of the like.

[Kitten Champion]

I am really curious as to how long Michelle Yeoh's character is going to last in a cynical sort of way. Particularly as I'd have been much more enthused going into this if I genuinely thought she'd be around for more than maybe 20-25 minutes.

[JadedDM]

I am really curious as to how long Michelle Yeoh's character is going to last in a cynical sort of way. Particularly as I'd have been much more enthused going into this if I genuinely thought she'd be around for more than maybe 20-25 minutes.

Yeah, everyone's really psyched about her being in the show, and I get that, but I was definitely under the impression she'd be in the pilot and that would be it. Namely because Michael gets transferred to a new ship in the first episode, right? Was there ever any confirmation that Yeoh was going to be a main character for the whole series? I'm not sure why people seem to think so.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Probably because for most of the prelim time, they were hyping that Michelle Yeoh was going to be in the show. Most of the video clips feature her. It wasn't even mentioned for the longest while that she was actually captaining a different ship.

So there's a certain feeling of bait-and-switch in the air. Not strong, but it's tainting the rest of the issues.

[Legato Endless]

I will fourth the general sentiment that I'd be surprised if Yeoh appears outside the introductory arc before Michael transfers to the Discovery and maybe in the final episode. Maybe she gets her own B plot, but that sounds unduly optimistic.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Legato Endless
Actually you might still be in luck. I also live in the US, but there's a local viewing party at a theater in my area. They'll be showing the first two episodes free. I'd recommend taking a look at local events.

I thought I saw somewhere, maybe earlier in this thread, that the first episode would be broadcast normally, and then the series would switch to streaming format. (Yup, on the previous page.)

I don’t plan to sign up for streaming to watch this show, but might as well watch a free pilot if it’s available.

Originally Posted by Friv
In 2016 alone, I can count Person of Interest, Timeless, Agents of SHIELD (which is superheroes, but mostly sci-fi), "You, Me and the Apocalypse", Limitless, Legion (also a sci-fi superhero take), and Colony, just on major networks.

Originally Posted by 2D8HP
...are any of them worthwhile?

Timeless looked like another cheesy network take on time travel, so I gave it a pass.

Legion was on FX earlier this year; it's focused on Charles Xavier's son, also a mutant but with multiple personalities. I tried watching it several times and was turned off in just about every way--in particular by the aggressively nonlinear approach to narration, which I found irritating, and the pretentious, arty way they endlessly revisited the same scenes. The portions I watched also went overboard on teasing the viewer as to whether any particular scene was a dream sequence, an astral projection, a medically induced hallucination or some other flavor of "not real." Apart from pretentious and arty, I also found this too cutesy to bear.

As for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., I wouldn't call it science fiction in the same vein as The Expanse. S.H.I.E.L.D. is very comic-booky, and while there are certainly aliens and alien agendas, there's also a good deal of the supernatural, rogue androids, totally-not-mutants with totally-not-mutant-powers, etc. etc.

Of all the ones Friv mentioned, Orphan Black and The Expanse are the standouts for me. The latter is a lushly realized space opera in a dysfunctional future, and Orphan Black is a smart, quirky action show about medical ethics. Conceptually at least, these two are head and shoulders above the rest.

.

[Olinser]

To be fair, the article also said that she's the first black captain, and she's not a captain at all. I think that interviewer has no clue about Star Trek, and it is possible that neither does the person being interviewed.

It is still pretty rough, though. Especially since the article is making a big deal about there being two women of colour as leads, when all the rumours are that Michelle Yeoh isn't actually a lead at all.

So you're trying to defend somebody giving an interview to a media outlet with neither side having any actual knowledge of what they're talking about?

We're not talking about 2 nerds arguing about exactly the number of episodes in TOS and whether the unaired Pilot should count as an episode, whether the 2 parter should be counted as 1 or 2 episodes, or which side of the family Kirk's middle name came from. We're talking about knowing basic main cast information from previous series.

That just reinforces that the crew in charge of this don't know anything about previous Star Trek and they don't care enough to get even basic details right before running their mouths.

Yeah, I give this show 1 season and hope it doesn't kill the franchise.

[JadedDM]

Yeah, I give this show 1 season and hope it doesn't kill the franchise.

Even ENT lasted four seasons. And when it was cancelled, we didn't get a new Star Trek for 12 years. If DSC really does fail after one season, yeah, I think it's safe to say Star Trek (at least in television format) is probably dead. So I hope you're wrong about that.

[Olinser]

Even ENT lasted four seasons. And when it was cancelled, we didn't get a new Star Trek for 12 years. If DSC really does fail after one season, yeah, I think it's safe to say Star Trek (at least in television format) is probably dead. So I hope you're wrong about that.

Season 1 of Enterprise actually had relatively good ratings, and season 2-3 Enterprise actually had comparable ratings to Voyager season 3+, so it's not exactly a shock that they stayed on the air until they took a further plunge in Season 4.

[Scowling Dragon]

Even ENT lasted four seasons. And when it was cancelled, we didn't get a new Star Trek for 12 years. If DSC really does fail after one season, yeah, I think it's safe to say Star Trek (at least in television format) is probably dead. So I hope you're wrong about that.

I knew this would happen. JJ didn't like Star Trek, and never made anything really honoring it. Everybody said that "Legitimate" Star Trek could grow out of the seeds of interest it planted but I knew nothing grows out of corrupted soil.

[Chen]

Even ENT lasted four seasons. And when it was cancelled, we didn't get a new Star Trek for 12 years. If DSC really does fail after one season, yeah, I think it's safe to say Star Trek (at least in television format) is probably dead. So I hope you're wrong about that.

Aside from crime shows and sitcoms, episodic TV seems to be in decline. That tends to be the main issue Star Trek has in the modern time. Enterprise started going more serial near the end and it just killed it. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Discovery.

[Olinser]

Aside from crime shows and sitcoms, episodic TV seems to be in decline. That tends to be the main issue Star Trek has in the modern time. Enterprise started going more serial near the end and it just killed it. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Discovery.

Actually its exactly the opposite. Ratings were starting to flag in season 2 but it was the Xindi arc that actually brought the ratings back up for the first half of season 3 (until it became obvious they didn't really have an actual plan for the arc and were just pulling crap out of their collective asses and hoping it stuck).

Season 4, when they returned to episodic format, just killed the ratings.

[Velaryon]

Well, having seen the first episode, here are my impressions:

-Michelle Yeoh is good. Too bad it looks like she won't be here much longer.
-Sonequa Martin-Green's character is good, but I kinda grated my teeth every time she talked over the captain and didn't get reprimanded for it.
-The science officer is rather annoying, but I feel like he and the main character have some potential to play off each other if they tone down the arguing a bit.
-I still hate these things they're calling Klingons.

I rate it a C+. Better than I expected, but still a long way from good. I won't be going out of my way to watch the rest.

[2D8HP]

...Season 4, when they returned to episodic format, just killed the ratings.

I actually found season 4 of Enterprise to be the least bad (the "Xindi arc" left me cold).

If they stayed on the air and kept improving it may have turned into a good show.

[Scowling Dragon]

If they stayed on the air and kept improving it may have turned into a good show.

Sadly its one of those "How flawed is the foundation" things. If your built on a Swamp foundation that you didn't drain beforehand, then no matter how sexy a 5th floor you build, it will be swallowed into the muck just the same.

[Hatu]

Watched the pilot. It was a lot more ... discombobulated than I expected.

Certainly the ending doesn't help. This was clearly not intended as a standalone story, which makes it a puzzling choice for a pilot. I know we're in the binge watching era, but you need to hook people before you can expect them to commit to buy your Hulu knock-off. The point of a cliffhanger is to leave people wanting to know how it ends. Instead, I'm left wondering how the story will start.

Much like with The Force Awakens, Discovery's first episode flatly refuses to establish anything about the rebooted universe. All we need to know is that in broad strokes everything has been reset. Humans are fiesty, vulcans are coldly logical, and klingons are the unreasonable bad guys - though they will, of course, have a far more religious extremist angle to them because it's the 21st century. Not necessarily bad, but there's not much meat on these bones.

Character wise we're also running into trouble. I agree with Velaryon that Michelle Yeoh was a) awesome and b) seems unlikely to be around for long. Which is bad because she was the only one I liked. Most of the crew were just extras thus far, so it boils down to just the first officer and science officer butting heads.

I think I can see what they're going for, but the relationship between them feels like it's caught in an uncanny valley. They're definitely not good natured rivals a la Spock and Bones, but they're too low key and complacent to be bitter opponents either. Mostly, they come across as annoying to be around. It doesn't help that the defining moment for both of them is pretty badly botched.

Saru's ability to "sense death" feels nonsensical. To me, that sort of ominous precognition tends to fall firmly in the space opera side of the genre. Yes, you can go for a 'harder' take on such an ability, but that would take lot of time and effort to explain and develop.

We got none of that. Babylon 5 was a far more conducive setting for this sort of thing, and it still struggled to make the Soul Hunters plausible. Given the more grounded setting Discovery seems to be aiming for, it's no surprise Saru comes off as either irrationally timid or just a convenient plot device. Neither is very appealing.

Michael, meanwhile, is a complete cluster@#$%. She starts out well enough, though it does feel like they've trying a bit too hard with her being Sarek's protege. But then she goes completely insane in the final act. I get that the Klingons respect strength, but she seems to be arguing merely for blind aggression. After all, in Sarek's parable the klingons destroyed a Vulcan ship first, then the vulcans opened fire on future encounters. Here, no one shot at anything. Given the last contact between the Feds and Klingons was generations ago, it's hard to see how the lesson holds.

But even if the situation were analogous, Michael's behavior would still be utterly reprehensible. She attacked her captain in a crisis situation! What the hell?! Are we supposed to be impressed by her determination? Combine her blatant dereliction of duty with the uncomfortable 'always chaotic evil' racism angle and I'd be seriously disinclined to keep watching even if it was free.

I guess that brings us to the Klingons, though personally it seems like they've been replaced by the G'nunk. While the Klingons have always been aggressive and powerful, they usually have a very regimented approach to their aggression. And they've rarely been shown as having technology far superior to Starfleet. Here, they seem to be a ragtag band of has-beens trying to recapture past glory, and they seem to outclass the Federation in just about everything. It's a bizarre way to go about things.

Aesthetically I don't like the redesign, but it's a relatively minor point. Though if they are going to re-imagine the Klingons, is it really to much to ask them to finally do away with the bat'leth? I liked it when Worf first used it as a rare and ceremonial weapon, but it is completely beyond ridiculous how ubiquitous that thing has become. But no, even in the reboot we're still stuck with it. Blech.

Otherwise, there really isn't much to sink my teeth into. The special effects were... mostly absent. We got a few shots of the ship, a transporter effect, and that zany EVA suit Michael had to use, but there was nothing that stood out. Granted, I'd go for low-key effects that support the script over gratuitous eye-candy any day, but I figured they'd want to lead with a little bit of dazzle. Guess not.

Speaking of the script, it's hard not to be underwhelmed by would-be heroes. They manage to pin down the scattering field, but that's about it. They can't use shuttles, they can't use probes, and even their EVA can barely withstand the radiation that was apparently not a problem for the Klingons. The Shenzhou is so completely outmatched that it's damn near disabled just by the klingon's communication system! And even though the Shenzhou called for reinforcements first AND was within federation space, the klingon fleet still arrived faster. Not a good showing.

Lastly, there were a number of badly thought out details in the script that annoyed me. Like the fact that even though the scattering field played real havok with their systems, they were still able to 'lock on' to it when Michael needed a way to trick the klingons into revealing themselves. Then there was Sarek's reference to a new star. He must have been talking about the klingon's comm signal, even though there's no way that ship could generate even a fraction of a star's output. And that the light would still be years away from him even if it was that powerful.

All in all, it just feels like we're still in the mindset that the tech is magic and no rules need apply. I despise that sort of thinking. That said, I will give credit to Michael actually having radiation burns from a less than lethal dose! That might just be a Star Trek first, so at least there's a slender reed to hang our hopes on.

-H

[Kislath]

Well, Hatu, you pretty much covered all the bases.

My main complaint is with the beacon.
SPOILERS:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.I can't believe they got the science SO wrong on this. How in the heck was all of that light supposed to be seen as something new while the beacon is sitting right smack between two binary stars? How could anyone notice it?
Is that little thing supposed to somehow be brighter than two suns?
Also, light, traveling at the speed of light, would still take many, many years to reach any inhabited planets. How could Vulcan be seeing a new star in the sky in just a few minutes? Are we supposed to believe that this magic lighthouse puts out light which travels at warp speed?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

ENT is the only series I actually followed as it was first aired. I think they could have done more with the setting from the beginning of the series, where they're basically introducing all of the regular Star Trek technologies as if they're something new. And while that's true for the characters, for the audience the explody guns and the ship grappling hook are the new parts, and they could have let stuff like that shine more, because the whole frontier feel they sometimes got out of that, like we're watching the crew of a rusty submarine where pipes start bursting when you dive too deep, that still feels like the heart of the ENT series to me.

That being said, DS9 is the only series I binge watched, partially because that's the one I had seen the least of on regular TV. I really liked how the later seasons build up the Klingon, giving them a method to their madness in a way I could respect. Worf actually stopped losing all of his fights is DS9. In a way that's one of the hallmarks of Star Trek, if you look deep enough you'll find something good in everything. Even the Dominion is not 100% an exception, although the Borg probably are. So I guess I'm watching the first episode tonight and see if I recognize anything of that in here, and if I do I'll probably try to keep up with the new series.

I can't believe they got the science SO wrong on this.

I haven't read any further than this, because spoilers, but I do distinctly remember a much faster than light solar sailing ship that accelerated to those speeds in seconds and somehow didn't turn everyone inside to paste despite the person who build it (DS9's Captain Sisko) never having considered this possibility. I think it was handmade out of wood as well. So there's the bar for bad science in Star Trek, not coincidentally that was one of my least favorite episodes.

[Aotrs Commander]

I haven't read any further than this, because spoilers, but I do distinctly remember a much faster than light solar sailing ship that accelerated to those speeds in seconds and somehow didn't turn everyone inside to paste despite the person who build it (DS9's Captain Sisko) never having considered this possibility. I think it was handmade out of wood as well. So there's the bar for bad science in Star Trek, not coincidentally that was one of my least favorite episodes.

Yet at the same time, it remains the only vaguely credible attempt at an actal solar sailing vessel design I've every seen on telly. (I.e. it did not look like a sailing ship in space.) So, they did actually get at least SOMETHING right with that episode.

(I also liked Enterprise.)



I would be interested to here from anyone who's watched both Discovery and Orville to compare and contrast...

[SuperPanda]

Yet at the same time, it remains the only vaguely credible attempt at an actal solar sailing vessel design I've every seen on telly. (I.e. it did not look like a sailing ship in space.) So, they did actually get at least SOMETHING right with that episode.

(I also liked Enterprise.)



I would be interested to here from anyone who's watched both Discovery and Orville to compare and contrast...

Only episode 1 of Discovery so far:

Orville feels like a show made by people who loved Star Trek: The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager. Are very familiar with the flaws of those shows and are under the impression that it was those flaws which made people love them. Its been an unabashedly optimistic series (despite a downer ending to episode 3) which tries to make snarky commentary on our society (and generally fumbles at it). It has all the loveable camp you want from a family friendly sci-if while trying hard to not be family friendly in its humor (which is mostly poorly done at the best of times).

Discovery feels like a show made by people who loved the JJ Abrams reboot aesthetic, and the idea of Enterprise, and are now trying to marry the two together. Michelle Yeoh's character is pitch perfect for a seasoned Federation captain. Part warrior, part diplomat, dedicated to the cause, and calm under pressure. I love this character. The "main" character is a hot-headed Vulcan wannabe who thinks she's governed by logic when she's very clearly emotionally driven. The other "main" ish character so far is the science officer who is pretty much an anti-Klingon. A cautious to the point of paranoid member of a species which is explicitly called out for being somewhat cowardly to begin with. They are trying to capture the Kirk, Spock, McCoy dynamic but missed the point as they have a Captian who doesn't need that balance, An alien Science Officer who seems to be there for dramatic trailer moments and to contrast how "cool" the Main Character is while still showing her to be reckless.

At no point did the Klingon's feel like Klingons thus far, but the Federation did feel right.

Orville is a campy show with a lot of heart that can't decide what it is.

Discovery is aiming to be serious business and high drama. So far apart from Michelle Yeoh it lacks the heart you'd want from one of these shows.

Discovery's aesthetic is very JJ verse but seems to be set in the "prime" universe. It opens with the tail end of a mission like the JJ verse films do. It has a small focused cast with only two characters getting any real development so far (and I think one of them won't last).

We haven't seen the discovery itself apart form art work in the opening - but it still looks ugly while the Shen Zhou is beautiful.

Orville's Aesthetic is very much TNG meets Galaxy Quest (with none of the promise). Its very much a "we are the wrong people for the job" style situational comedy while at the same time taking every chance it can to say "these are professionals." It has a larger cast with a more traditional Trek focus. Orville is neat looking and the designs are crisp and clean. It looks and feels like what might happen if someone was tasked with making TNG era shows with modern techniques... it even has an LCARs style interface. (Discovery has all kinds of tech upgrades which could break your immersion if you care about such - I do not).

Orville is trying to be "I'm Star Trek and Drunk, lets have fun." Its creators clearly love Star Trek but are also not interested in/incapable of making smart TV with the nostalgia they are mining.

Discovery is trying to be "Star Trek is high Drama, this is serious." Its not clear that anyone on the crew likes, or even watches Trek (apart from everything with Michelle Yeoh) but its no where near as cringy as I was worried it would be. There are the seeds for a good story line planted and its letting things breathe enough that it still might happen.

Both are fun so far, neither are succeeding in what they are trying. I'm still not in the states so I'll try to catch some more and report back.

The science on Discovery is about as good as NuTrek's (meaning its pretty much non-existant) but it feels like its trying much much harder.

[Starbuck_II]

Huh.

“So having me as the first black lead of a Star Trek, just blasts that into a million pieces. I am eternally grateful that the diverse casting of our show means that we are now a part of the conversation and hopefully a part of making the world a better place, as cliché as this sounds. Because I really believe it and think its vital for us all right now.”

I guess my question would be, who was the lead in DS9? Not Sisko apparently? It's also weird the article mentions Janeway and not him.

I think she means 1st black number 1, like Riker was number 1 in Second series.

After watching the first episode, I find Orville is currently better, but maybe Discovery will grow on me. Sadly, I taped it on DVR and "60 minutes" co-opted the time so I missed last 10 minutes.

Did I miss much at end of Discovery?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Not much. I think you were there for our 'hero' attacking the captain and trying to open fire on the Klingons, so all you missed is the captain walking onto the bridge, having the XO thrown in the brig for mutiny and the respective fleets show up. The previews for next episode strongly hint the XO survives what comes next only because of the brig forcefields.

The science officer is a nice look at an evolved prey animal (most everything we see are predators). The language is clunky, of course--he should be talking about knowing when he's being hunted, not mumbling about death coming.

The biggest strike against the captain is that she thinks the XO is ready for promotion.

[ImperiousLeader]

It's good to have Star Trek back, and I thorougly enjoyed the first two episodes.

I will say, as a pilot, this was weird. It's a prologue to the series, on a different ship. The seven year story of Burnham on the Shenzhou feels like another series that I would watch. So it's a little like starting Lord of the Rings at the Battle of the Five Armies (from the Hobbit).

But, while I'd have hoped to get to see the actual USS Discovery, I would not have given up one moment of Michelle Yeoh's Captain Georgiou.

Overall, while this show has a more modern touch, it still feels like Star Trek. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

[anonymsly]

It's good to have Star Trek back, and I thorougly enjoyed the first two episodes.

I will say, as a pilot, this was weird. It's a prologue to the series, on a different ship. The seven year story of Burnham on the Shenzhou feels like another series that I would watch. So it's a little like starting Lord of the Rings at the Battle of the Five Armies (from the Hobbit).

But, while I'd have hoped to get to see the actual USS Discovery, I would not have given up one moment of Michelle Yeoh's Captain Georgiou.

Overall, while this show has a more modern touch, it still feels like Star Trek. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

I agree with all of this. I liked most of the characters and Captain Georgiou was good. I'd love a seven years on the Shenzhou series, but hopefully we'll get some flashbacks at least.