May UA's Up: Ever Wanted To Be Part Horse?

[Boverk]

So I've been thinking about ridiculous things to do with the centaur and rider(mounted combat) combo.

Mounted combat means the centaur mount can't be targeted, so the centaur just needs to worry about AOE saving throws, right? It also gives your mount evasion.

Paladin rider for the +cha to all saves sounds nice. Oath of the Ancients would give you both resistance to spells

You could have the centaur be a monk for prof in all saving throws, stunning strike, and the ability to catch missiles(one ranged to the mount, all other attacks to the rider.

you can have the mount go swashbuckler 9 to be able to use Panache as an action to give your target disadvantage with attacks unless its targeting you, which your rider makes impossible to do. And Panache doesn't state a limit, so you can do one every turn. This could also make a nice grapple stomping build

Rogue Scout centaur would be incredibly mobile, and be great for the opening nova attack

Tempest cleric mount would be able to fly at will

Wizard mount could take as their spell master (or just cast)

• Alter self...you're basically an awesome centaur jet-ski
• reduce/enlarge person ...be large! your rider has advantage with melee attacks on anything medium or smaller
• jump...bounce your way across the battlefield (centaur warlock can also do this at will)
• spider climb...centaur wall-crawling mounted shenanigans
• invisibility...invisible mount is just amusing.

War Magic would be a great choice for this, since on a reaction, you can give +4 to saving throws and get int to initiative, or abjuration wizard, since you could give your rider hit points.

[nickl_2000]

So I've been thinking about ridiculous things to do with the centaur and rider(mounted combat) combo.

Mounted combat means the centaur mount can't be targeted, so the centaur just needs to worry about AOE saving throws, right? It also gives your mount evasion.

Paladin rider for the +cha to all saves sounds nice. Oath of the Ancients would give you both resistance to spells

You could have the centaur be a monk for prof in all saving throws, stunning strike, and the ability to catch missiles(one ranged to the mount, all other attacks to the rider.

you can have the mount go swashbuckler 9 to be able to use Panache as an action to give your target disadvantage with attacks unless its targeting you, which your rider makes impossible to do. And Panache doesn't state a limit, so you can do one every turn. This could also make a nice grapple stomping build

Rogue Scout centaur would be incredibly mobile, and be great for the opening nova attack

Tempest cleric mount would be able to fly at will

Wizard mount could take as their spell master (or just cast)

• Alter self...you're basically an awesome centaur jet-ski
• reduce/enlarge person ...be large! your rider has advantage with melee attacks on anything medium or smaller
• jump...bounce your way across the battlefield (centaur warlock can also do this at will)
• spider climb...centaur wall-crawling mounted shenanigans
• invisibility...invisible mount is just amusing.

War Magic would be a great choice for this, since on a reaction, you can give +4 to saving throws and get int to initiative, or abjuration wizard, since you could give your rider hit points.

What about Caviler with Unwavering Mark for the Centaur or Ancestral Guardian with the Ancestral Protectors feature. That's crazy powerful.

[Sigreid]

Some traditions put the Minotaur in the position of a victim. He was the creation of a vengeful god, who was essentially using the poor guy to piss off a king he didn't like. The Minotaur was put in the maze because he was different, and was made into a killing machine because that was the only thing he knew.

Personally, I like the idea that the Minotaur couldn't escape the maze because he didn't want to. It was pretty clear that the Athenian tributes were killed by the Minotaur, not by starvation. Thus, he must have been able to navigate the maze relatively easily. Theseus was only able to find him via magic.

Obviously, this is only one interpretation of the mythology, and one that isn't particularly synergystic with 5e's interpretation.

The recurring theme in Greek mythology is that the gods are easily offended and turn people into or otherwise create monsters to punish humans at the drop of a hat.

As far as the minotaur goes, in the maze he was going to be fed and was safe. Holding all the cards as it were. Given that if he left he would undoubtedly be murdered by a mob, his incentive was to stay.

[Boverk]

What about Caviler with Unwavering Mark for the Centaur or Ancestral Guardian with the Ancestral Protectors feature. That's crazy powerful.

I thought about Ancestral Guardian, but figured that Swashbuckler with Panache brought more to the table, with Reliable talent, better initiative, and cunning action.

Both would be good, but they do have limits on how often they can "taunt" Ancestral guardian has to be raging, and cavalier can do it strength mod times per day.

Also, since the swashbuckler gets the free disengage(Fancy Footwork) and dash as a bonus action(cunning action) and the rider isn't using their movement to move, neither would provoke attacks of opportunity, right?

so mobile Swashbuckler with a tanky Paladin on their back would be insane....take mobile feat for 100 feet of movement every turn, lance smiting their way to victory.

[the_brazenburn]

As far as the minotaur goes, in the maze he was going to be fed and was safe. Holding all the cards as it were. Given that if he left he would undoubtedly be murdered by a mob, his incentive was to stay.

Precisely. The fact that he stayed in the labyrinth reveals more about personal experience and common sense than it does about an inability to navigate mazes.

[Sigreid]

I thought about Ancestral Guardian, but figured that Swashbuckler with Panache brought more to the table, with Reliable talent, better initiative, and cunning action.

Both would be good, but they do have limits on how often they can "taunt" Ancestral guardian has to be raging, and cavalier can do it strength mod times per day.

Also, since the swashbuckler gets the free disengage(Fancy Footwork) and dash as a bonus action(cunning action) and the rider isn't using their movement to move, neither would provoke attacks of opportunity, right?

so mobile Swashbuckler with a tanky Paladin on their back would be insane....take mobile feat for 100 feet of movement every turn, lance smiting their way to victory.

The centaur would be good as the group wizard. Think about it, with his rider having the mounted combat feat you get to have a wizard with the ultimate tank protection. I also agree paladin is best for the rider to minimize the chance either succumbs to a spell.

[nickl_2000]

The centaur would be good as the group wizard. Think about it, with his rider having the mounted combat feat you get to have a wizard with the ultimate tank protection. I also agree paladin is best for the rider to minimize the chance either succumbs to a spell.

Just for fun, toss a saddle of the cavalier on top of the Centaur too.

[Willie the Duck]

I feel like minotaurs got dealt a bad hand with this. If my players want a minotaur, I'm going to offer them the first UA version, as I feel it allowed a bit more choice in how to play them with different classes, etc. This one feels like "yeah, fighter or barbarian, everything else is a bad match"; something I dislike intently. I'm not saying some races can't be *better* at certain roles, but it shouldn't feel like the full package of abilities locks you down. I mean, a minotaur sorcerer player shouldn't feel like their horns are a wasted utility, and the +2 Str was for naught.

Its no different from the other brutish races like half-orc or goliath, they are all optimised for barb/fighter, except minotaur is a bit worse.

A half-orc sorcerer gets their 1/day 'ignore being put down to 0 hp' effect, and presuming they melee attack at all, the extra crit dice eventually benefit them. a minotaur sorcerer may literally never dash into melee, and have a low enough total str that the reaction shove is never an optimal use of a reaction. However, you are basically right. My real issue is that even a featless, non-2wf, champion fighter (who thus almost never has any other uses for their bonus action or any non-OA reaction) will still have a hard time setting up these minor benefits in a useful way (unless someone is seeing something I don't).

Obviously, this is only one interpretation of the mythology, and one that isn't particularly synergystic with 5e's interpretation.

The recurring theme in Greek mythology is that the gods are easily offended and turn people into or otherwise create monsters to punish humans at the drop of a hat.

As far as the minotaur goes, in the maze he was going to be fed and was safe. Holding all the cards as it were. Given that if he left he would undoubtedly be murdered by a mob, his incentive was to stay.

I like the idea of minotaurs as cursed humans, rather than an entire race of the things. However, along with the hooved feet and such, D&D minotaurs seem to have clearly deviated from the mythological underpinnings quite a bit (and in Krynn they are... sailors for some reason?). Not that most Greek myth monsters really make sense in their old contexts once you make a whole race of them instead of them being one-offs.

[Logosloki]

I feel Goataurs should be the Dwarfen equivalent to a Centaur.

Centaurs being medium made me laugh for a good while, reading people's reactions just made me laugh harder. Equine Build doesn't actually make any sense because of it. Or, Equine build allows you to stack as many Centaurs as you would like. the whole party can ride on one square.

So, hooves. I think they should be d8 and/or versatile, that way they count as having 2 hooves for an attack or one double hoof oof. Since they aren't light they don't count for dual wielding but would you allow them for duelist? I'm thinking more about them because if a player wants to use their hooves as a primary weapon (and ranged weapons/reach weapons for the human half) I want them to feel like they can just go with it and feel powerful for choosing so over say a longsword. In this scenario assume that I would ask the player to call at the start of their turn if they were using human or horse half rather than allowing for mixed attacks.

[Boverk]

The centaur would be good as the group wizard. Think about it, with his rider having the mounted combat feat you get to have a wizard with the ultimate tank protection. I also agree paladin is best for the rider to minimize the chance either succumbs to a spell.

yeah, I think war wizard or abjuration wizard would be best for this (Or Theurgy Wizard if it makes it out of UA).

war wizard gets to use their reaction to give themselves a +4 to a saving throw, and abjuration gets to give themselves more hp, which they can use to take damage for their rider.

Divination would also be good for mind spike and counterspell shenanigans, coupled with clutch roll swaps

[Boverk]

I feel Goataurs should be the Dwarfen equivalent to a Centaur.

Centaurs being medium made me laugh for a good while, reading people's reactions just made me laugh harder. Equine Build doesn't actually make any sense because of it. Or, Equine build allows you to stack as many Centaurs as you would like. the whole party can ride on one square.

So, hooves. I think they should be d8 and/or versatile, that way they count as having 2 hooves for an attack or one double hoof oof. Since they aren't light they don't count for dual wielding but would you allow them for duelist? I'm thinking more about them because if a player wants to use their hooves as a primary weapon (and ranged weapons/reach weapons for the human half) I want them to feel like they can just go with it and feel powerful for choosing so over say a longsword. In this scenario assume that I would ask the player to call at the start of their turn if they were using human or horse half rather than allowing for mixed attacks.

The versatile trade off is giving up a shield for damage. if you make the hooves versatile, there would never be a reason do a non-versatile hoof attack, unless you required a dexterity check, or sacrificed some movement

[Knaight]

One could argue the Minotaur had an incredible sense of memory of the labyrinth from being trapped in there, but if there was no physically viable way to escape because leaving was never part of the option, it's not really fair to disallow a good memory.

On the other hand, that argument also basically acknowledges that the Minotaur didn't have a general perfect sense of direction, so much as that they knew the one specific maze that they lived in for their entire life. The only species trait involved there is basic memory.

[nickl_2000]

On the other hand, that argument also basically acknowledges that the Minotaur didn't have a general perfect sense of direction, so much as that they knew the one specific maze that they lived in for their entire life. The only species trait involved there is basic memory.

Wasn't the Labyrinth enchanted so that the maze was constantly changing? If it was, a basic memory wouldn't help with this.

[the_brazenburn]

Wasn't the Labyrinth enchanted so that the maze was constantly changing? If it was, a basic memory wouldn't help with this.

Depends on the story. Some traditions say that it was enchanted to change shape, or to misdirect people inside. Others just say that it was really big and complex.

Either way, though, the Minotaur would have needed one hell of an Int score to navigate it accurately, and it's pretty clear that he didn't. That makes it clear, at least to me, that Minotaurs should have some sort of "Labyrinthine Recall" ability.

IMO, of course.

[nickl_2000]

Depends on the story. Some traditions say that it was enchanted to change shape, or to misdirect people inside. Others just say that it was really big and complex.

Either way, though, the Minotaur would have needed one hell of an Int score to navigate it accurately, and it's pretty clear that he didn't. That makes it clear, at least to me, that Minotaurs should have some sort of "Labyrinthine Recall" ability.

IMO, of course.

Thank, my knowledge of Greek mythology is either 20 years old from studying it in school or from reading my kids the Percy Jackson books. Either way, it's not likely to be completely accurate.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Did anybody notice that centaurs can ride centaurs ?

[Ralanr]

Did anybody notice that centaurs can ride centaurs ?

Yes. It’s a tower of horses.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Ok question tho? Shadow monk centaur is being ridden by his friendly Shadow Sorcerer. Sorcerer creates darkness and centaur teleports them.

Does the centaur appear alone ? Does the sorcerer sit in your he air where he was go a moment before looking down and then drops like a cartoon?

[nickl_2000]

By the way, did anyone address the issue with how the heck a centaur wears normal armor? I mean a Minotaur makes sense since they are somewhat shaped the same way, but a centaur?

[Ralanr]

By the way, did anyone address the issue with how the heck a centaur wears normal armor? I mean a Minotaur makes sense since they are somewhat shaped the same way, but a centaur?

Some mix of human and horse armor.

[nickl_2000]

Some mix of human and horse armor.

I would think it would need an additional cost though. It certainly isn't just adjusting a few straps to fit correctly.

[Boverk]

By the way, did anyone address the issue with how the heck a centaur wears normal armor? I mean a Minotaur makes sense since they are somewhat shaped the same way, but a centaur?

Probably the same hand waving which makes a halfling's plate mail cost the same as a goliath's.

Basically, Smiths hate halflings, but love centaurs, so they get discounts/markups accordingly

[the_brazenburn]

I would think it would need an additional cost though. It certainly isn't just adjusting a few straps to fit correctly.

If it's half armor and half barding, split the difference between the costs and get double the price of ordinary armor.

That's how I'd rule it, at least.

[strangebloke]

If it's half armor and half barding, split the difference between the costs and get double the price of ordinary armor.

That's how I'd rule it, at least.

If you're shooting for realism its probably:

1/2 cost of human armor + full cost of barding

After all a centaur is most of a horse and half of a person.

I'm really loving this thread because my next campaign I'm running has both centaurs and minotaurs.

[Spacehamster]

Halfling riding a centaur, riding a moon Druid in horse form, riding a moon Druid in mammoth form that rides a level 20 wizard transformed into a dragon. :D

[Asmotherion]

So, the Wizards of the coast want to tell me that:

This is a Large Beast:


Wile this is a Medium Humanoid:


I think something implyed is politically incorect here. I knew the Wizards of the Coast were secretly Death Eaters!

[A Fat Dragon]

If Centaurs received a bonus to Dex instead of Strength, they would make very good Monks.

I could definitely see myself playing a Centaur Monk (Speed, Unarmored Defense, and Proficiency in all saving throws? Yes please) and one of my party members playing a Cavalier Fighter in the future.

[Finback]

(and in Krynn they are... sailors for some reason?).

Krynnish minotaurs are pretty much the most "modern" race in the world; they're pretty much a pastiche of the Graeco-Roman empires, complete with colosseums, senates, and a very heavy naval presence (living on an island chain). The island thing kind of precludes some sailing understanding. In terms of their military strategy, the sailors are also the landfall soldiers, so they would spend a fair amount of time at sea as well as on land, and pretty much almost every minotaur who can be a soldier will be one at some point, so sailing is a fairly common base skill for them.

[EvilAnagram]

The island thing kind of precludes some sailing understanding.

I would think that island living would necessitate sailing. Or are they Moana minotaurs?

[JakOfAllTirades]

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm taking notes for next month's UA feedback survey....