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2018-09-21, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
By "original pantheon" I take it you mean "original total list of gods from all four pantheons."
Beyond that, you yourself point out why what you're saying is irrelevant. There has never been anything created with as many colors as the Snarl which was designed to fight the Snarl. Since the Snarl's first rampage there has never been anything created in four colors. The same number of colors as the Snarl=a chance of winning. Thor didn't say anything about "more colors than ever before."Last edited by Kish; 2018-09-21 at 07:33 PM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-09-21, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
The story has been very clear that Redcloak isn't right. He's so high on sunk-cost fallacy and not wanting to think all the dead goblinoids are his fault, he doesn't even care about real, flesh and blood goblinoids anymore.
I'm sure by the end of this the goblinoids will have a better lot in life, but the injustices they face are real and I don't see this as the kind of story that won't address them, but Redcloak literally being deified would be a terrible, terrible turn of events that would go against so much that Rich has actually written him as.
And no matter how much people may want it, Xykon is never just going to go away and become inconsequential.Last edited by Rrmcklin; 2018-09-21 at 07:37 PM.
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2018-09-21, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Actually, I had a template all laid out and was ready to pull the trigger last week, but was advised it may be more appropriate for the Message Board Games section, and I never post or lurk in there.
A sucker punch that knocks you out of the fight doesnt mean you can't still win when you get back in.Last edited by Peelee; 2018-09-21 at 07:59 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2018-09-21, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
And just like that, redemption for Redcloak - which I honestly thought would never happen after [SOD spoilers] - is looking surprisingly likely. This should be interesting.
I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!
Can't find the strip you're looking for? Head on over to OOTS Strip Summaries!
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2018-09-21, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Black speech bubbles are more an indication that the speaker is either incredibly Evil or tied to the negative energy plane (or both) rather than some manner of Divine quiddity.
Oops, my bad.
Huh... I wonder if Thor being against Banjo joining the Northern Gods had anything to do with the Dark One having a different color quiddity...
New crack theory: This isn't actually Thor talking to Durkon and Minrah... It's Loki in disguise.
Your meme conveniently forgets that Hel is half-undead (no, seriously) and that Loki was the mother in one of those instances.Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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2018-09-21, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
More than that the "colors" aren't necessarily literally colors per-se. They're representations of divine quiddities, and there's no particular reason to assume that the quiddities will mix the way colors do.
Red, blue, yellow is another commonly used set, just in different contests. RGB shows up a lot for screen displays, CMY shows up in color printing and in definitions of colors based on additive illumination, and red, blue, and yellow show up as "the" primary colors usually taught first, with an emphasis on paint mixing.I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2018-09-21, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-21, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2018-09-21, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
TDO may be unwilling to talk to the more good-aligned gods of other pantheons. They were the ones who created his people as XP fodder, and they were the ones who allowed it to happen. The evil-aligned gods were probably only "allies" insomuch that they supported him becoming a god and provided him with information he didn't know before. It'd probably be unlikely to see Dark One and Rat chumming together playing chess or whatnot.
What Durkon CAN do however is seek out Redcloak and talk to him, as one mortal is much more likely to listen to another, with less destructive consequences. And who would the Dark One listen to if not his high priest?Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
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2018-09-21, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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2018-09-21, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by jwhouk; 2018-09-21 at 08:18 PM.
"Character is what you are in the dark." - D.L. Moody
Life's too short to be ashamed of how you were born.
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2018-09-21, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
This certainly makes things interesting!
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
Generation 21. Every time you see a generation, copy it into your Sig and add one. This is a social experiment
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2018-09-21, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
I don't know if you noticed, but a big theme of OotS has been that adventurers killing monsters solely because of their species/race/etc. is wrong. Rich has also spent a lot of time (especially in SOD) showing events from goblin perspectives and illustrating the injustice of their situation and of others' perception of them. They are as much a part of the world as humans are, and have as much claim to save it, or to want to save it.
If somehow you've been here since 2007 and never noticed any of this, then...never mind.Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2018-09-21 at 09:56 PM.
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2018-09-21, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-21, 08:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
So what are the latest theories for why the MiTD can’t see the gates? Created entirely by arcane magic with no connection to the gods or with the divine quiddity? A creation of the goblin god - again separate from the colors of the snarl? A creature entirely of actual darkness - that absorbs the light quiddity (of any wavelength), and so is somehow no color at all? Or just back to not perceiving the gates as gates for a bit of a joke...
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2018-09-21, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Is the consensus that the MiTD can't actually see the gates? I always thought he could see them just fine but was too dumb/apathetic to know they're gates or to follow Xykon and Redcloak's conversations properly. When Xykon pointed at the gate, the MiTD said "Huh. I never noticed that before", which doesn't suggest to me that he couldn't see it (although I guess it is not impossible that he thought Xykon was showing him something else, because he is that dumb). And regardless, he did say the surrounding magical darkness made it hard for him to see stuff.
ungelic is us
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2018-09-21, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
So, what this means, I think, is that new Gods of a different color can come into being. The Dark One isn't necessarily the only option for a four-color scheme. There are other colors, which are not purple, that could potentially happen... possibly more cooperative ones.
I wouldn't count the goblins, or their good, as indispensable yet.
EDIT: Well, I might as well keep this typo up as a reminder to myself of my own imperfection. Let all who attempt to achieve perfection be warned of the dangers of the insidious auto-correct!Last edited by NihhusHuotAliro; 2018-09-21 at 08:51 PM.
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2018-09-21, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
New gods don't just show up willy nilly, and apparently when they do they share the same essence as one of the already existing pantheons.
Thor says the Dark One is the first thing like this; that most certainly is indispensable until we're given an actual reason not to think so.
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2018-09-21, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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2018-09-21, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
If there's a setup for a CMYK joke, then isn't the IFCC gearing up to replace xykon in the ritual with epic V?
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2018-09-21, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-21, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
I logged in in I don't know how many years to tell you I am giddy with excitement!!! <3
The Dark One is the key to stopping the Snarl!!!
This arc has been epic reveal after epic reveal! Thanks Giant! <3
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2018-09-21, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
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2018-09-21, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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2018-09-21, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
So my first thought is, wasnt Loki Red during the Godsmoot? Why would that be if the Northern gods are Yellow?
My second thought is, I guess the Sapphire guard was right when they theorized that mortals were less vulnerable to the Snarl than the Gods. They are made of 3 colors vs 1, so they are closer to the Snarl in "realness".
My third thought is, if that rationale is true for the Snarl, then arent mortals ALSO more powerful than the Gods? So why cant they cut through them like butter?
My fourth thought is, what is Redcloak made of? Are goblins made of Purple? Does the Dark One have any role in creating new goblin souls? Or does color only come from what Gods weaved the world originally?
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2018-09-21, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
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2018-09-21, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
He kind of does that, but also there are examples of things like Vampires which are exactly as evil as they seem to be, and wights which are exactly as mindless killing machines as they seem to be, and Orcs which are all as dumb as they are supposed to be(except the one which is half not orc). So thats not as consistent as a theme as you might expect. Species attrivutes are actually fairly accurate in OotSVerse. The theme seems to be more "solving your problems with violence might seem like the easiest solution, but actually isnt"
Also, all the goblins are still generally evil, even if theyre relatable. Tsukiko was humanized because she wanted love, but she was still cruel and heartless. Redcloak cares about his fellow goblins, but still is down with slavery and torture and other generally evil things. Just because you add some complexity to evil characters it doesnt make them not evil anymoreLast edited by Phantom Thief; 2018-09-21 at 09:17 PM.
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2018-09-21, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Some of those are sentient, living creatures raised in cultures and experiences, the others are supernatural creatures literally powered by evil. I'm still confused why some people have issues with treating different things differently.
That fiends like Sabine, Quarr, and the IFCC are literally made of evil and love it, doesn't somehow invalidate the point made with the goblins.Last edited by Rrmcklin; 2018-09-21 at 09:21 PM.
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2018-09-21, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
First thought response: Loki's divine aura was yellow at the godsmoot, same as the rest of his pantheon. You may be thinking of his red eyes.
Second thought response: Indeed.
Third thought response: Mortals may be more 'real', but they also lack the same scale that the gods have. An ant may be more real than a multi-million big screen blockbuster, but that doesn't mean it has more influence on human behavior.
Fourth thought response: Redcloak is made of the same stuff as any other mortal creature: flesh and blood and bone.
Maybe the Dark One has a hand in creating new goblin souls, maybe he doesn't. I don't think we've heard one way or the other aside from the fact that he was given dominion over the goblinoid races (and given that Hel has a similar set-up but likely doesn't have a hand in creating dwarven souls, I doubt the Dark One alone creates goblin souls).
Divine color refers to the base essence (quiddity) of the gods (if I'm interpreting the latest comic correctly). All of the Northern gods have the same quiddity and thus all have yellow auras, and ditto for the Southern (blue), Western (red), and the late Eastern (green) gods. The fact that the Dark One ascended to a pantheon of one with a purple aura means that his quiddity is inherently different from any and all other gods that have come before him.Wind & Sound Elemental Eric Greenhilt avatar by Akrim.elf
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2018-09-21, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1141 - The Discussion Thread
Do you count Jirax describing seeing him to Redcloak?
Yeah I thought about that when I posted. Notice how that interaction went down though. Tiger showed up to run them out of the South, and Thor and Odin immediately backed down and walked away. No serious inter-pantheon interaction, that would be comparable to long-term negotiations with the Dark One.
More like "Who I want", amiright??
If it wasn't Epic it would have worn off by now. Sometimes you just have to accept some loose stuff for foreshadowing/Chekov's guns."Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman