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2020-07-23, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Quick question about the Realms goddess Shar: does she have any notable followers or minions that are vampires?
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2020-07-23, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Baator is a made up word to replace 'Hell' and it has no meaning.
Yes. Several such creatures all ready exist like this. Dahak, Ma Yaun(the killer of gods), Apep(Apophis), Fenris, Jormungandr and Kezif the Chaos Hound.
The power for a mortal....doubtful.
Well....Myrkul is a special case as he cheated death by hiding in an artifact.
Sometimes "dead' deities can and do grant spells...sometimes another friendly god steps in to do this, and sometimes it's just a mystery. (3E even had a feat you could take to get power from a dead god).
It's general hard to bring a god back....but possible. And anything can be eradicated.
Sure, it's possible, in theory, to resurrect any god.
Mystra, Myrkul, Bhaal and Bane are all special cases....see they all knew they were going to die and planned ahead. Of those four, only Mystra "really died", and it was of her own choice as she passed on her godhood and name to another.....she was eradicated(much like the Mystra before her).
You can't really apply the Rule of Three to something as simple as a war. After all what counts as a 'major war'. Good vs evil and law vs chaos would count as two wars, right? How about elves vs orcs? Gnomes vs goblins? The elemental wars?
Anything is possible sure....maybe. I've never seen any lore on it.
Classic case of slipping stuff past the radar.
They scream "no demons no hell!"
TSR-"Um, ok, how about Gehenna and Limbo?'
They mumble-"Um, no problem. I don't even know those two words."
I think the only major source is The Complete guide to the Astral Plane 2E.
Elf vs drow, elf vs orc, gnome vs goblin, dwarf vs orc, dwarf vs duegar, and all the elemental ones.
Keep in mind the gods are a big mystery so no mortal really "knows" anything about them for sure that is a "fact".
Sharess is an aspect manifestation of Bast...and, well, it's complicated. She has nothing to do with Shar at all, despite the similar names.
A god is not a "person", they are beings. It's complicated, again, but technically when you see a god acting that is an avatar of the god, not the god. And avatar's are "people". Depending on the gods power level, they can have several avatars. And each avatar can be different. And gods can have aspects too.
And that is on top of a single god can have many names and be worshiped by each.
They are all avatars. The books even say so. Mystra, Cyric and Mask are all quite busy during those stories...and often are doing several things all at the same time. There was, for example, one bit before the climax where Mystra sends a dozen avatars out to send messages to each god she wanted to talk too.
As Mystra, Kelvmor and Cyric were all new gods....having been mortals not to long ago....they were naturally still acting like mortals: This is a plot point in both books.
Well....yes. The Old, Wild Chauntea became an aspect called the Earthmother.
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2020-07-23, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Do I even have a job to do anymore?
Also, a reminder, for the love of all that is ancient and Baatorian, please please please do not invoke real-world religion in this thread, lest it cease to be a thread. There is absolutely no reason to mention the holy book of any present-day religion, or to refer to old world religions in a context other than the mythologically-derived elements offered up in D&D.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2020-07-24, 05:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Okay, let's stop discussing religion-related things. I got my answer, thanks everyone.
Afro, what's your personal opinion about anti-Sigil below the Spire?
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2020-07-24, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-26, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Same Celestial Emperor, different functionaries would appear to be the intent. The functionaries of Kara-Tur appear to be of minor standing compared to those of the Chinese Pantheon writ large.
A very long time ago, seven martyrs to the cause of law and good were reborn on the Mount as the first tome archons, the Celestial Hebdomad. In the time between then and now, six of them have died and been replaced.
For the most part, their role doesn't distinctively involve challenging the Lords of the Nine; Barachiel oversees the defense of the first layer against incursion; Erathaol predicts major planar events; Raziel would be the vanguard general of Celestia if there was a need to lead a force off-plane for any reason; and Sealtiel ensures that the highest layer is protected from any unworthy beings attempting to enter.
Chauntea remembers herself in all aspects, she just considers herself more complete now. Aspects of Chauntea are worshiped in many lands under many names and with many attributes, though they are not independent deities. Certain principles and precepts remain central to Chauntea specifically and not other deities; for instance, she has never been a goddess of the hunt, and so veneration of the hunt would go to Malar, not Chauntea. She is not goddess of the woodlands; veneration of the forest's bounty would go to Mielikki.
That sounds dumb.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2020-07-28, 12:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
I know canon is pretty short of things to say on unique archons, guardinals and eladrin; is there any particularly good fanon?
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2020-07-28, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2020-07-28, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
I've got a question that's been bugging me. Why is Carceri, the notorious prison plane, so comparatively easy to leave compared to places like Athas, Hades, the Plane of Dread, and even Elysium?
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2020-07-28, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
It depends on what rules and what edition you use. In 2E the plane could not be left by any means other then the Styx or natural...and rare... portals on the first layer.
So if a PC plane shifted to Carceri, they would be stuck there unless they found a way out.
Of course, by the time of 3E, so many players whined and cried about the "unfair" stuff in D&D that they changed it to Carceri is just a place.
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2020-07-28, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
In Planescape, the only physical exits out of Carceri are portals to the Outlands, Hades, and the Abysss on the first layers, and taking a boat on the Styx. The portals on the first layer exist only on every fifth orb, and getting a whole party from one orb to the next can be quite a challenge. And then you also might have to cross that entire orb to make the next flight to the next orb in the line. And to make things worse, most gates are guarded.
A special rule applies in Carceri, but it doesn't really have a specific mechanic. Everyone who has been send to Carceri as a prisoner can only use the portals after they have become more powerful than the people who imprisoned them there. What specifically more powerful could mean is up to the GM case by case.
A simple plane shift spell should also do the job, but being a 7th level spell is far out of reach for most people who have been exiled there.
It is relatively easy to get in and out for a typical Prime party that has become powerful enough to go on adventures throughout the planes with their own magical powers. But Planescape is designed as a setting where low and mid level characters travel the planes as well. And these people are usually completely reliant on using the portals with no access to powerful spells or magic items.
A 15th level fighter would be a very powerful opponent on a prime world, but without a 14th level cleric or wizard who comes to find him and get him out, he'd be stuck there.Last edited by Yora; 2020-07-28 at 03:29 PM.
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2020-07-28, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
There is not. TSR was lazy with these, and WotC never bothered fixing it. Not a ton of demand, you understand.
Domiel defends the second layer and his mandate to oppose tyranny would be pointless in the Hells, not much cause for him to go. Pistis Sophia doesn't leave her layer to go poking devils, she has other things to be on with. Zaphkiel oversees all of Mount Celestia and wouldn't go down to the front lines where he'd be leaving his charge at greater risk. All of them are boring. Note: not all three. All seven.
The Doylist perspective was touched on by Lagtime and Yora; the Watsonian one is that Carceri knows who its prisoners are and are not; more importantly, it's not that Carceri doesn't want you to leave; it's that Carceri doesn't want you to be capable of escaping. Carceri has no use for a destroyed and hollowed soul like the Gray Wastes create; it doesn't want to trap you there because you've given up on being elsewhere. Carceri wants you to keep aspiring to something you can't have because you stop right before the finish line to make sure nobody else gets there. The spite, selfishness, and suspicion of Carceri are infectious in their own insidious way. Carceri is a prison whose bars are forged of one's own flaws, whose shackles are fired in the venomous certitude that you are so much better than all these other schmucks, and you just need to make sure they all get the picture before you finally given them all the laugh. It pulls you in like quicksand, until you become part of the problem and deny yourself an escape. In many ways, it's the same way that the Demiplane of Dread locks in its newest members, only Carceri wants everyone, and it doesn't so much mind if you slipped out today... if you've ever had cause to come to Carceri, then someday, you'll be back, one way or another, and the plane can wait.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2020-07-29, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
To my knowledge, the Planescape campaign setting did not introduce any new spells to 2nd edition. But are there any 2nd edition spells that would be a big deal for a Planescape campaign, which have not been carried over to 5th edition?
Some spells from earlier editions that I found to be notably absent are the shadow spells, but I realized today that the Shadow Plane does not appear to be a thing in Planescape. Is it a new 3rd edition creation?We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
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2020-07-29, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
The Shadow Plane existed in 2e, but only as a particularly old, big and well-known Etheral demiplane. There were fanmade attempts to reinterprete it, for example as an Inner Plane lying on the point where Positive and Negative touch. It's status as a transitive plane is new in 3e.
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2020-07-29, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
The campaign setting boxed set had no spells in it, but the other books like the Planewalker Handbook did. Few of the 2E Planescape spells even made it into 3E, let alone 5E. A lot of them were very useful for planewalkers, but of little use to anyone else. They have only been updated by fans.
The shadow plane was just the Demi Plane of Shadow back in 2E....not the big scary Shadowfall of 4E/5E. The only shadow spells in 2E were illusion shadow spells....and few were ever converted.
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2020-07-29, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Something else I've been wondering. Do people in the outer planes use calendars to track the passage of time? I believe none of the outer (or inner) planes have regular seasons, or any cycle other than day and night. And many not even that.
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2020-07-29, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
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2020-07-29, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
I believe this is the one you're thinking of.
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2020-07-30, 02:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
I don't know about god killing, but I do know that in the Greyhawk setting the (formerly) mortal wizard Zagyg Yragerne canonically imprisoned nine low-ranking deities in his basement, as part of a (successful) plan to become divine himself. (although one of them, Iuz, doesn't count for the purpose of this question because Zagyg received direct aid from one of Iuz's divine rivals)
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2020-07-30, 03:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Exactly. Thank you!
Also, I'd like to second the question Yora prompted: Do the Planes have seasons? Except for Arcadia (manually steered seasons that are exactly three months long) and Ysgard's first layer (more extreme versions of the normal seasons) I have no idea.Last edited by Tzardok; 2020-07-30 at 03:22 AM.
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2020-07-30, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
In the Dragonlance Legends trilogy, Caramon Majere travels into the future, where his twin Raistlin has defeated first Takhsis, Queen of Darkness, then destroyed the other gods and all life on Krynn, save Astinus, the aspect of Gilean the Recorder, and Par-Salian, the former head of the Order of High Sorcery, who has been transformed into a marble statue and condemned to die as the last man on earth. After Caramon returns to the present, Raistlin reads his mind, accepts Caramon's experience in the future as both true and the inevitable consequence of his victory, and chooses to abandon his quest for godhood and, not incidentally, be tortured by Takhsis forever*.
*admittedly, for a limited value of foreverIn-character problems require in-character solutions. Out-of-character problems require out-of-character solutions.
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2020-07-30, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
I've found some information about the naga deities Shekinester and Parrafaire on the internet, but with no sources. Any idea where they might be from?
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
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2020-07-30, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
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2020-07-30, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
I don't think this ever really gets mentioned. The Astral, Etherial and Elemental planes all have weather. Divine realms can have whatever weather or seasons the deity wants.
Other planes are not natural places like the Prime, so really they would not have "seasons", but a lot more just changing weather.
2E Monster Mythology is the first mention. After that though, there is not much. On Hallowed Ground has a bit, as does the FR Serpent Kingdoms book.
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2020-08-01, 02:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Are there any named elemental cults of the para or quasi elements? I was thinking Cyronax probably has a cult, and possibly Bwimb II, but I haven't seen any reference to any elemental cults outside of the main 4 elements.
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2020-08-01, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
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2020-08-01, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
There was a 1E or 2E module where a Ki-Rin owed the party a favour. Later in the module, the party were in a Negative Energy Demi Plane of some sort (sorry for the vagueness on details, this was a LONG time ago) trying to track down an artifact to kill a lich, or something similar. When we called on the Ki-Rin to help us, he said he can't travel to that plane, as his "goodness" (i.e. Positive Energy) would cause a massive explosion if he entered a Negative Dominant plane.
Now, its entirely possible none of this was written in the module, and was entirely the DM ad-libbing or home brewing. In fact, I suspect that to be the case.
My loosely related question is: are there any instances where a particular creature entering a particular plane would have widespread destructive consequences, such as an explosion or similar?My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2020-08-01, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
There was 3.0 AP that had you do a section on the plane of ice and you meet Cyronax and he sends you to someplace to continue the adventure. You get there I think from something cult related, but I cannot for the life of me remember it though I ran part of it at one point. This is all kind of fever dream haze but I do remember it.
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2020-08-01, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
Cryonax apparently has a cult that mainly consists of "frost giants, malasyneps, evil arctic druids, and spellcasters who employ cold-based spells". Also, Yeti supposedly worship him as a god, as do an arctic offshoot of hobgoblins known as "amitoks".
This cult may or may not be known as "The Frostblood Cult".
A lot of potential Cryonax cultists are probably drawn to Thrym or Father Llymic instead.Last edited by Thurbane; 2020-08-01 at 09:24 PM.
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2020-08-01, 10:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VIII
While it wouldn't exactly be widespread destruction, having a Xag-Ya enter the Negative Energy Plane or a Xeg-Yi enter the Postive Energy Plane would probably not be something you want to stand close to. They are composed of positive and negative energies respectively and have an annoying tendency to charge each other on "sight", causing a 30 ft radius explosion that deals 2d8+18 points of damage. They also otherwise do 1d8+9 points of damage upon death in a 20-ft radius if reduced to 0 hitpoints. This comes from their listing in Manual of the Planes, pages 168 and 169.