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2021-04-26, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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2021-04-28, 11:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
What's the difference between advantage on a single attack, and two attacks?
If you're only going to get one attack in your build, then sure, you can guarantee advantage on the one attack for free and get a reliable way for Sneak Attack Smiting...but if you do that, you have to delay or cut something. There's an Opportunity cost.
If you aren't going to pick up Extra Attack from Paladin, you're also going to lose out on the Aura at Level 6 which I would argue is one of the classes best features Paladin has to offer. +3-5 to all allied saving throws within 10' comes up a lot. It's a defensive feature that helps your team, and if you're looking for Sneak Attack opportunities, you're going to want to be flanking with teammates anyway, which is in range of the aura.
But if you do Rogue 2 / Paladin 6, you're delaying Sorcerer now. You lose out on Level 9 Slots, the Level 14 Sorc feature, 2 Sorcery Points, a Level 7 Spell in the long run, and you're delaying super basic stuff like Shield until Level 9.
That's not to say you can't do two levels of Rogue, there are perks. More skills, slightly higher HP than 6 P / 14 S, a higher damage floor in melee; but judging what the costs of that investment are is more complicated in a three-class build than a two-class build. The optimization break points aren't as clear and that's why I don't recommend it. There's nothing to stop you if you want to, but I think I would rather do Rogue/Paladin or Paladin/Sorcerer and not Rogue/Paladin/Sorcerer.
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2021-05-08, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2021
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I have a half elf dex based sorcadin. Currently pld2/DivineSor2.
Party has 2barbs and 1 druid. The setting is survival, and has frequent deadly encounters, with few short rests in between. Long rests are almost always interrupted by one or more encounters.
I have a Dex build, but no access to finesse weapons, and only have a shield and only mageArmor spell.
I wanted to go pld2/SorX or Pld6/SorX..... but as things stand right now, I can barely hit enemies. I can smite a little, but then the rest of the day , the character feels weak and useless with the lack of magic and gear.....the campaign will most likely last until level 12-15
In such situation, would it be best to dip Hexblade1level, to get access to a Cha based weapon, and some refillable slots, and Eldritchbalst (I would probably pick an invocation with a feat...if I have to). Or instead go Hex3....or just get pld2/sor3, then the rest HEX...
Which combination would you all advice in my situation?
edit stats are str 14, dex16, Cha 18, con 14, int 10,-and im considering not being dex based if the hex dip is recomendedLast edited by mcabel; 2021-05-08 at 03:48 PM.
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2021-05-08, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Pokemon friend code : 3067-5701-8746
Trade list can be found on my Giant League wiki page, all pokemon are kept in stock with 5 IVs, most with egg moves, some bred for Hidden Powers. Currently at 55 in stock and counting.
Padherders for my phone and my tablet!
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2021-05-12, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2021
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Warlock certainly sounds attractive in a campaign where you will often get short rests but rarely get long rests.
Do you have access to armor? If you can't even get a dagger or a shortsword, I'd be surprised if you're getting heavy armor. Dex is still arguably the best stat in the game with impact to initiative, armor class, and several useful skills. So I'm not sure I'd want to switch to a str-based build, even though your offense is a bit behind. You do have two barbarians for that.
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2021-05-12, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2019
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
So what weapons do you have access to?
If the game is so short on mundane gear then going to Warlock 3 and getting Pact of the Blade w/ Improved Pact weapon would be a good choice. I'd advocate Celestial over Hexblade, you'll get more benefits overall out of being Dex primary and the additional resource pool (Healing Light dice) will help your party with lack of long rests.For D&D 5e Builds, Tips, News and more see our Youtube Channel Dork Forge
Feel free to message for any build requests or challenges
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2021-05-12, 08:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2020
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
With gear being low, I'd recommend the one level dip in Hexblade. You get a lot for it, Charisma as a melee attack stat, Hexblade's Curse, Eldritch Blast - and two extra spells known, as well as that short rest spell slot. Don't sleep on the extra spells known, Hex is pretty good and as a Hexblade you could grab Shield - which would free up one of your Sorcerer spells. It can feel a bit cheesy, but if you can't even get a finesse weapon...you've gotta do what you've gotta do.
I wouldn't recommend more than one level in it, tbh. You may get some very good stuff for it, but ultimately it delays your Sorcadin levels - and that'd make it a pain to play. Sorcadins already get features late by virtue of their multiclassing, delaying those features even further would be a bit painful. I wouldn't even recommend grabbing a feat for an invocation - charisma for attacks is awesome enough as a one level dip. It can feel tempting to maximise the amount you gain from the dip, but remember that that comes at a cost - be it another feat, or an ASI. Ultimately, the hexblade dip is awesome as it would let you focus on charisma alone - and again, as a Sorcadin you get features late - that includes feats/ASIs, so having the ability to focus on one stat would be great.
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2021-06-01, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2021
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
So my group starts "Odyssey of the Dragonlords" these days. I took the Demigod Epic Path with a Sorcadin build in mind. I don't expect it to go beyond Level 15, but who knows, I heard it got stretch goals to expand the campaign to Level 20, but I don't worry about that and I don't want to risk running into Spoilers. But I want to make sure that I can enjoy the lower levels, even if it costs me some sweet optimization.
We rolled for attributes and I got 15 14 13 13 11 7. The Demigod Sorcerer Level 1 gives me Cha for Melee, which means that ASIs I spend to boost Cha count double, it would be as if a normal Sorcadin got to get +2 to Cha AND Str in one ASI. That makes maxing out Cha on the first two ASIs my preferred choice. Because I don't want to postpone my Cha 20 for the Warcaster feat I went all in and made a crazy decision: I start with 1 Level Demigod Sorcerer and the Warcaster Feat. I know that I lose 2HP, Heavy Armor, WIS saves and a significantly higher survival probability on Level 1. But I get Con Saves and Warcaster and earlier Cha 20. It gave me a bit of a headache but no risk no fun. And I have the DEX to go for Medium Armor.
Spoiler: Level 1Str 13
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 11
Cha 16
Variant Human (+1 Dex, Cha); Background Noble (my DM let me switch History for Religion because my Daddy is a god); Warcaster Feat, Perception, Persuade and Deception.
Saves: Cha, Str, Con
I rolled for starting funds instead of the standard Sorcerer pack and bought Medium Armor, a Warhammer, a Shield for the Paladin Level I take next. In-Game reason why I don't use them yet: "I am a Demigod, what could possibly go wrong?"
Cantrips: Booming Blade, Green-Flame-Blade, Lightning Lure and Sword Burst. I'll go 2 Levels Paladin next, so I have to live with these choices for a while. I am a bit unsure about not taking any ranged Cantrip, but I need the Scag Cantrips, I'd love to pull an enemy away from my Wizard Buddy with Lightning Lure and I want to have an option to damage multiple foes if they surround me. More Melee options, less Versatility. Your thoughts?
Spells: Absorb Elements, Shield. And I'll take the Nature Domain (let's say my mothers' side was stronger than my Dads in this regard) and get 1 use of Entangle and Healing Word each per Short Rest. (War Domain would have given me Shield of Faith and Thunderous Smite)
Next I'll take 2 Levels Paladin for Medium Armor and Shield Prof., Martial Weapons and Smiting. I have some better options than a normal Paladin or Sorcadin, because I don't have to choose between having a high Melee bonus and having a high Spell DC, which makes some spells more viable for this build than others.
I still don't know how I'll proceed from that point. I have to look at it a bit more holistic than just the mathematical optimization of DPR: We don't have a real Healer in the Party so it's gonna be hard to bring me back into the fight once I am Dying. My Con isn't super high so every d10 instead of a d6 in my Hit Dice is welcome. I also want to be useful without burning through resources, so I have a tendency towards P6 instead of P2. On the other hand we only got 1 full caster so me having higher Spells sooner could be more important.
We got a Barbarian, a Figher (both Minotaurs), a Rogue, a Ranger and a Wizard (all Human) in our Party - everyone chose the Subclass provided by the Setting. My choice isn't ideal for the party composition but once the Demigod Sorcadin popped into my head I knew I wanted to tell his story, no matter if it's optimal.
Are there others who tried that build? Which Paladin Subclass would you recommend if I go P6? The Dragonlord Paladin from the book isn't really an option because its leveling is tied closely to the story it seems and getting a Wyrmling late and the capstone never just doesn't work for this. Conquest to make them flee and eat my BB OA? Or Vengeance because... well, it's the best?
This is my first post here, I hope I didn't make any mistakes. Later today is the first Session and I can't wait to get a feel for the Setting and the Campaign, I hope it will help me decide how to advance after S1P2.
By the way: this Guide is great!
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2021-06-12, 07:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2021
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Fantastic thread!
I have a question about one of the newer subclasses released - clockwork soul sorcerer. With it, you can gain armour of agathys as a sorcerer, which upscales fantastically too, and a very neat 6th level function that lets you stretch your temp hit points out much, much further, at the cost of being sorcery point intensive. This comes at the cost of not getting the draconic soul abilities, but it makes for a very fun, if expensive, use of sorcery points. To stretch it to the limits, combine with flame shield (Tasha's sorcerers list) and flame of pthelegos tiefling for a "go on, hit me" sorcerer
What do you think about a clockwork sorcadin?
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2021-06-13, 05:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
So hey, doesn't a warlock dip mean you refresh all your spell slots with a short rest? That would seem to get around the primary weakness of the combo, albeit at the cost of a whole level of something else...
Delaying your key feats any further would hurt, and taking a warlock level near the start of your build would mean it takes even longer to really get rolling, but once you're past the big hurdles and have a lot of spell slots to burn through, finding a Patron and making a contract could seriously multiply your long term output.
Granted the Pact itself might be problematic for roleplay purposes, depending on what kind of paladin you are, but most heroes wouldn't object too much to binding their soul to a celestial in exchange for phenomenal cosmic power.
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2021-06-13, 05:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Last edited by Chad.e.clark; 2021-06-13 at 05:42 AM.
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2021-06-13, 05:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
When this thread was created I think most Sorcerer subclasses weren't even out.
As of today, Draconic looks like a pretty underwhelming choice for a Sorcadin when compared to other options you now get. Both Divine Soul and Shadow have been strong contenders and now Clockwork and Aberrant Mind both give interesting new opportunities.
Of course it really depends on what you are aiming to do, but your example is one that shapes a pretty strong tank: as in, it gets you exactly that "only bad options" decision tree for the enemy that you want to have as a tank.
Nope.
You refresh your Warlock spell slots only on a short rest, not all of your spell slots.
That said, an Hexblade dip pretty much makes you SAD and might well be worth it. And the Hexadin is a strong multiclass on its own.
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2021-06-13, 07:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2021
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2021-08-18, 05:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I'm playing this right now I am at paladin 2 and demigod sorcerer 4, and having lots of fun with it. Hope I'm not to late for the advice. I would reccomend getting rid of the sword burst cantrip. You are with a bunch of frontline fighters, getting surrounded won't be a problem, and you've got green flame blade to deal with 2 enemies. I would take firebolt to replace it. (also with so many front liners, having a ranged attack is good).
The short rest recharge of your spells is very good! don't forgot to always use them.
I do hope to get to level 16-20, I've skimmed it, and it seems still fun to play, and wanted the level 9 spells to become a god (demigod sorcere, demigod background -> become a god). So I only went for paladin 2/sorcerer 18. If I were to choose a paladin class I think.. it choosing something for flavour would be more impactfull in play than choosing the strongest, as a nymf raised by druids it would be the ancients, but you could pick anything.
Also slight spoiler for the magic items:
SpoilerThere is a piece of medium armour that gives +1 CHA, and you are not going to pick up any better medium armour. So you might want to take a half feat at some point, or ASI +1/+1
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2021-08-18, 05:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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2021-08-28, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2020
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Hey so... Curious question: how well would an Oath Of Redemption Protector Aasimar Sorcadin work out?
Last edited by Bildnut; 2021-08-28 at 01:07 PM.
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2021-09-04, 04:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2021
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Thanks for the general input and that tip! I also found that there's a lot of situations where I would endanger too many allies or Green-Flame would just be outright better, so it doesn't get much use. I guess I'll switch it out at an ASI, assuming my DM let's me use that optional rule.
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2021-12-29, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Thinking about a kobold sorcadin. I'd *like* to have the draconic bloodline for flavor, but not if I'm severely gimping myself. The campaign is PB and is supposed to be about 1-12, going through three modules. Is the dex build remotely worth dealing with having lower ability scores because I need 13 str or am I going to be better off with a more typical build?
Is there a Holy Avenger or any other fancy str-based non-heavy paladin gear in Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, or Red Hand of Doom? That would definitely impact my choice. No need to specify what, I would prefer to go in mostly blind while also not kicking myself for a build that can't use something special.Last edited by Double A; 2021-12-29 at 11:46 AM.
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2021-12-30, 12:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
While the new subclasses are probably stronger spellcasters than RAW Draconic, Draconic is probably the best subclass for DEX Sorcadins, because of the adjusted 13 + DEX formula for AC and additional health.
There are also a non zero number of DMs who are willing to buff older subclasses through the addition of free spells tied to the subclass.
Having to invest in STR for PB is probably a downside but it is necessary according to MC rules. I wouldn't invest further than that for a DEX build, and probably dump INT.
So 13 / X / X / 8 / 10+ / Max kind of thing.
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2021-12-30, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
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2022-06-19, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
I wouldn't say it's a downgrade, but I do think it it has a very strict stat spread. DEX is still one of the best stats to optimize a character around because of how it interacts with AC and initiative. If you can somehow afford to run a higher DEX, there's no reason not to, but it's not something I think can be forced easily with standard array.
For example, +5 DEX Draconic Sorcadin can hit 20 AC with just an ordinary buckler.
Defense fighting style hits 21. Shield of Faith/Haste (+2), Magical Shields (up to +3), the Shield Spell (+5 for one turn) can allow you to hit up to 31 in your pajamas.
But the Multiclass rules require a 13 STR at least, the better melee weapons for your role generally don't have the finesse property, and you want to be in melee to have the option of smiting anyway. All of it comes together to discourage DEX.
That being said, I've only been first in initiative once in a party of four-six in a campaign running Level 1 to Level 18. The low initiative is the biggest weakness of the Sorcadin, imho.
Edit: I came knocking because I'm actually debating my fourth and final ASI/feat choice and I'm not sure what I want to do.
I have Warcaster, Mounted Combatant and a homebrewed variant of Heavy Armor Master (no stat change but works for magical BPS too) with 16/12/18/14/14/20 on a Crown 6/Draconic 12 Half-Elf but there's a lot more feat choices than when I first started playing the character some...five, six years ago. I've been considering
- Mage Slayer - Enemy spells bad.
- Mobile - 40 base speed sounds cool. Eventually becomes a fly speed with wings.
- Elemental Adept (Fire) - Green-Flame Blade, Fireball, and Wall of Fire are the targets here.
- Metamagic Adept - I already have Careful, Quickened, and Subtle, but I'm more interested in this for the points. Stand outs are Distant, Heighened, and Twinned.
- Tough - would bring me to 208 HP (and end at 230 at Level 20).
- Prodigy - Random expertise is funny.
- Spell Sniper (Charisma) - Attack cantrips would now work with Lances.
But nothing is really speaking to me in particular. Does anyone have any experience of suggestions for filtering this list?Last edited by Ghost Nappa; 2022-06-19 at 12:33 AM.
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2022-06-20, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
What's your build right now? What feats do you currently have?
You mentioned lance-based attacks, so my suggestion is mounted combatant to pair with your find steed spell. Every paladin loves advantage, and this gives you that, plus better survivability for your steed.Or, just take the strength ASI, and increase your damage and accuracy even more. Whatever choice you make should be weighed against the mechanical benefit of +1 to attack and damage with your melee weapon. I'd consider fey- or shadow-touched even as half-feats they are quite strong. Fey-touched gets you mobility with misty step, and shadow-touched gets you invisibility. Of this list, I like the meta magic adept the best for the extra points, leaning towards twinned to spread out buff and debuff potential.Last edited by Kashew; 2022-06-20 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Reading ability
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2022-07-06, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass
Spoiler: BuildHalf-Elf
16 STR / 12 DEX / 18 CON / 14 INT / 14 WIS / 20 CHA
1. Paladin 1
2. Paladin 2
3. Sorcerer (Draconic - Gold) 1.
Cantrips: Green-Flame Blade, Lightning Lure, Minor Illusion, Booming Blade
First Level Spells: Shield, Absorb Elements
4. Paladin 3 (Oath of the Crown)
5. Paladin 4. Warcaster.
6. Paladin 5.
7. Paladin 6.
8. Sorcerer 2.
First Level Spell: Expeditious Retreat
9. Sorcerer 3.
Dropped Expeditious Retreat, replaced with Misty Step.
Second Level Spell: Mirror Image
10. Sorcerer 4. Mounted Combatant.
Cantrip: Mold Earth
Second Level Spell: Hold Person
11. Sorcerer 5.
Third Level Spell: Haste
12. Sorcerer 6.
Third Level Spell: Fireball
13. Sorcerer 7.
Fourth Level Spell: Greater Invisibility.
14. Sorcerer 8. Heavy Armor Master* (homebrewed version. No +STR bonus, but works for all BPS).
Fourth Level Spell: Wall of Fire
15. Sorcerer 9.
Fifth Level Spell: Hold Monster.
16. Sorcerer 10.
Cantrip: Control Flames.
Fifth Level Spell: Teleportation Circle.
17. Sorcerer 11.
Sixth Level Spell: Mass Suggestion
>18. Sorcerer 12. Undecided<
19. Sorcerer 13.
Seventh Level Spell: Torn between Crown of Stars, Reverse Gravity, and Draconic Transformation, but that's a problem for future me.
20. Sorcerer 14.
Other:
I don't recall the levels that Metamagic are received, but I took Quickened and Careful first, followed by Subtle.
Additionally, I have additional DM granted use of Cause Fear, Dragon's Breath, Incite Greed, Leomund's Tiny Chest, and Arcane Hand.
I primarily engage combats S&B as the group's Tank / Off Healer. I don't actually get to have most fights on horseback to make use of the Lance or Mounted Combatant for more practical reasons (stealth, dungeoneering, teleportation, etc.)
Last edited by Ghost Nappa; 2022-07-06 at 08:46 PM.