Class and Level Geekery II

[jindra34]

By the way, since nobody else has mentioned it:
Symbol of Insanity is an 8th level spell, which means that Xykon either had to buy a scroll for it (market value 8,000 gp), or he is at least level 16.

we already knew he was at least lvl 18 so yeah thanks for a useless bit of info [/sarcasm]

[RMS Oceanic]

I've just realised, Durkon must have endurance as well as Roy.

[Irenaeus]

Historically speaking, the vast majority of samurai were only trained in the 2-handed use of the katana, no? Unless I'm mistaken (and I'm no expert on feudal Japan), the two-sword fighting style was quite rare.

In the Sengoku-era, most samurai would train for using the sword both one- and two-handed, in a battle you would often need your left hand for other things than wielding a weapon.

In the later ages, with more duels and less war, the pure two-handed approach might have been more common.

The difference between what exactly constitutes a bastard sword and longsword in DnD is somewhat unclear anyway, since both weapons can be used one and two handed interchangeably.

[Wrecan]

I've just realised, Durkon must have endurance as well as Roy.

Except that Durkon wears heavy armor, and Endurance only prevents fatigue in light or medium armor. So there's no good mechanical explanation for Durkon sleeping in armor. I guess he's always fatigued!

[TroyXavier]

I'd say that's more simply for ease of drawing on Rich than anything.

[Amon Star]

Except that Durkon wears heavy armor, and Endurance only prevents fatigue in light or medium armor. So there's no good mechanical explanation for Durkon sleeping in armor. I guess he's always fatigued!

He could cast lesser restoration on himself every morning. I believe it removes fatigue.

[Felistor]

He could cast lesser restoration on himself every morning. I believe it removes fatigue.

Or his armor could have the "Restful" magical ability (Dungeonscape page 39). It only costs 500 gp, so he could easily have afforded it even before he left the dwarven lands.

[pjackson]

Regarding Roy's sword:
Starmetal weapons are described on page 141 of The Complete Arcane and that description is compatible with what has been shown.

It would seem likely that Roy has taken the Ancestral Relic feat from Book of Exhalted Deeds (pages 39-41). The sword meets the qualifications and it would fit with Roy's attitude to it and his describing it as his ancestral weapon. Roy using his favour from Shojo on the sword could be considered the sacrifice needed to upgrade it.

Unfortunately a +5 Starmetal Greatsword would be too valuable to an ancestral relic if Roy was only 13th level (about 60k gp) though not at 14th. But then there is its ability to somestimes do extra damage to undead. Though the weaponsmith did consider that a flaw.

[wRAR]

Why is Redcloak mentioned as LE?

And please add a link for Nale's alignment (he mentions it in #0057).

[Runolfr]

Why is Redcloak mentioned as LE?

It's inferred from his behavior, but subject to change.

[PsyBlade]

Durkon's deity is Chaotic Good (look at his reasons for doing what he does and what he does). Clerics cannot be more than one alignment step from his deity. Durkon is clearly good, so he must be Neutral. He cannot be Lawful.

[meioziz]

Durkon's deity is Chaotic Good (look at his reasons for doing what he does and what he does). Clerics cannot be more than one alignment step from his deity. Durkon is clearly good, so he must be Neutral. He cannot be Lawful.

Ah! I had exactly the same feeling the other day, and thought about adding a comment here. But the more I think of it, the more I think it still makes sense, in the Giant's universe.

As the rules are written, a Cleric doesn't have to worship a deity - he/she can instead be spiritually inclined a certain way.

From the system reference, under the Cleric class description:

If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.

Similarly, as the various references to Thor show, Thor's angels prefer that his worshipers not know the "reasons for doing what he does and what he does". This, in my opinion, implies that the real Thor is different than the image of Thor as viewed by the worshipers. Therefore, Thor's worshipers may worship the lawfulness and goodness of Thor, without requiring Thor to be so himself.

I'm not sure if there are other rules on the specifics of deities' relationship with their worshipers, but I don't see this as a real violation of the rules as written.

Edit: What I mean to say, is that, since Thor wishes to project a lawful good image, he's probably going to grant spells to Durkon, a lawful good character.

Edit2: Plus, Thor might seem chaotic to us readers at times, but he can still be lawful good, just that the Giant chose to let us see more of the funny (when Thor screws up) side: letting villagers get eaten while answering Durkon's prayer - it certainly would be wrong to hang up on his own cleric; shoot lightning/storm randomly - come on, he was drunk; using the prayer answering machine - intention was certainly to ease the prayer answering process.

[Porthos]

Durkon's deity is Chaotic Good (look at his reasons for doing what he does and what he does). Clerics cannot be more than one alignment step from his deity. Durkon is clearly good, so he must be Neutral. He cannot be Lawful.

Durkon is expressly labeled as Lawful in On the Origins of PCs. He has shown to be Good time and time again. Also, he has shown a Lawful outlook in practically every strip he has been in, and has almost never shown a Chaotic viewpoint. He is therefore Lawful Good, irrespective of the One Step Rule.

QED.

Besides, a good deal of the Thor/Durkon interaction shows that Thor really isn't a suitable god for Durkon.

[Felistor]

I see the "one step" rule as specific to the core pantheon, and something that would very likely have been houseruled the minute a new pantheon was created (It has been a while since I looked through it, but I'm pretty sure there are deities and religions in Deities and Demigods that violate the one-step rule).

Either the Thor in the OOTS campaign setting is NG, or the OOTS campaign setting includes a houserule that Thor accepts LG clerics. Either way I think we are looking at one of the side effects of having a homebrew pantheon, because Durkon's aligmnent (as Porthos points out) is as certain as that of any other OOTS character, and it is clearly LG.

[Porthos]

I see the "one step" rule as specific to the core pantheon, and something that would very likely have been houseruled the minute a new pantheon was created (It has been a while since I looked through it, but I'm pretty sure there are deities and religions in Deities and Demigods that violate the one-step rule).

Either the Thor in the OOTS campaign setting is NG, or the OOTS campaign setting includes a houserule that Thor accepts LG clerics. Either way I think we are looking at one of the side effects of having a homebrew pantheon, because Durkon's aligmnent (as Porthos points out) is as certain as that of any other OOTS character, and it is clearly LG.

My take is that all of the Norse Gods (or at least most of them) have the Dwarf portfolio, and as such they might be allowed to have them as followers. I don't have any of the deities sourcebooks at the mo, so I'm not sure how that would play out.

But it makes sense to me at least.

[Duke of URL]

Based on #450, should Belkar's possessions be modified to include a "skull from an eye of fear and flame"?

[RMS Oceanic]

Nah, we don't know if it's for the long term or not yet. Best to wait and see. The Hecuva could take it from him/destroy it, for all we know.

[Vargtass]

From 450, judging that Belkar's jump is made from standstill and at least 3 ft high, not using his Ring of Jumping, it seems he succeeded on a DC 24-32 jump check with a 12-18 negative modification to the roll.

I provide this as evidence of a high Jump score. Assuming a +4 STR bonus, he would have to have at least 12 ranks in Jump. I would guess he has maxxed out, i e 16 ranks at level 13.

[Rasumichin]

Iirc, Halflings get a racial bonus on jump checks, which should be kept in mind when guessing at his skill ranks.
But he sure has got some ranks in it (which at least tells us where those skillpoints he did not put in survival went).

[Vargtass]

Iirc, Halflings get a racial bonus on jump checks, which should be kept in mind when guessing at his skill ranks.
But he sure has got some ranks in it (which at least tells us where those skillpoints he did not put in survival went).

Right, missed that! It's +2 bonus. On the other hand, Halflings have a STR penalty of -2, so perhaps the +4 STR bonus is a bit too much also.

Do you happen to know if the penalty for standstill jumping is 18 or 12 (depending on if you count from speed 30 or 20 (the Halfling base move)? I suppose there is an interpretation on this somewhere...

[Jasdoif]

Do you happen to know if the penalty for standstill jumping is 18 or 12 (depending on if you count from speed 30 or 20 (the Halfling base move)? I suppose there is an interpretation on this somewhere...

Jumping without a twenty-foot head start doubles the DC of the check. It doesn't change the modifiers to the roll.

Belkar's speed is 30 feet (barbarian's fast movement), he takes no penalty from his speed.

[Vargtass]

No, but lowering the speed to zero from 30 is a -6 to the roll for every 10 ft decrement. But perhaps that only applies to speed and not to actual distance covered... then my argument falls.

[Mathias_Tanavar]

That's an odd approach to take. I've always assumed that katanas were treated as bastard swords in D&D because of how they are balanced (much more of a 2-handed weapon than a 1-handed weapon) and not because of any rarity. I mean they are still bastard swords (and not longswords) in Oriental Adventures and I don't think anyone could argue that katanas aren't exceedingly common in that campaign setting.

Incidentally, if OOTS katanas ARE longswords instead of bastard swords, that would mean our calculations of expected damage and so forth are a bit off (since longswords do 1d8 while bastard swords do 1d10).

Do you have a source for this?

I hate to get into this but

IRL a Longsword and a bastard sword are the same thing... what D&D calls a longsword is actually an 'arming sword', or 'Knight's sword', however I realise that is not the question (merely brought up because it is a matter which I feel is worth considering)

Also IRL an arming sword is probably our closest equivilant to the IRL Katana - both weapons are around three foot in the blade, any duribility lost because of the thiness of a katana in comparison to an arming sword is made up for in the method of construction. Any blade longet than three foot was considered a No-Dachi, so a Bastard sword (about four foot in legnth) would actually have the same name as a greatsword... that's where it gets complicated...

[Aimbot]

any duribility lost because of the thiness of a katana in comparison to an arming sword is made up for in the method of construction.

That's not really true. The Japanese Islands have very poor mineral resources. The folding process was done to remove impurities common to the native materials. It also helps to hold a sharper edge, but the durability is really not comparable to a traditional western longsword made with western steel, which was naturally superior. I might be mistaken, but I don't think I am.

[RMS Oceanic]

Extended Summon Monster VII is a level eight spell, so Redcloak must be at least level 15 with at least 18 Wisdom.

Also, his Patron Deity seems to be called "The Dark One".

[pjackson]

Extended Summon Monster VII is a level eight spell, so Redcloak must be at least level 15 with at least 18 Wisdom.

Also, his Patron Deity seems to be called "The Dark One".

He also has the Extend Spell feat.

[BenjCano]

Worked up some stats on Redcloak's mammoth (or elephant). Not a bad platform from which to lob spells, all things considered.

Redcloak’s Mount:

Huge Magical beast (augmented animal)(extraplanar, evil), CR 9; HD 11d8+55 (104 hp), Init +0, Speed 40 ft. (8 squares), AC 15 (touch 8, flat-footed 15); BAB/Grp +8/+26; Atk Gore +16 melee (2d8+15); Full Attack Slam +16 melee (2d6+10) and 2 stamps +11 melee (2d6+5) or gore +16 melee (2d8+15); Space/Reach 15 ft./10 ft.; SA Trample 2d8+15 (Ref half; DC 25), Smite Good 1/day (+11 damage), SQ; Low-light vision, scent, Darkvision 60 ft., DR 5/magic, Cold/Fire Resistance 10, SR 16; AL Unknown Evil; Saves Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +6

AB Str 30, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 3, Wis 13, Cha 7
Skills and Feats: Listen +12, Spot +10; Alertness, Endurance, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Listen)

[Citizen Joe]

Since we know that Redcloak can do 8th level spells, that means that the Symbol of Insanity on the ball may have been cast by Redcloak instead of Xykon. Xykon did make mention that Redcloak didn't think it would work.

That would free up a spell slot for Xykon, which is very valuable for sorcerers.

[Grasilich]

Xykon said 'I just incribed a Symbol of insanity on one of those super-bouncy balls...' in 448. It's his spell, not Redcloak's.

[pjackson]

It looks likely that Redcloak has at least one rank in Climb (to climb his mount) and one in Ride.